Refs -- something must be done

[zeke5123]

Wait. Are you suggesting that because he doesn't regain possession and get a foot in bounds that he didn't regain possession? That seems insane and doesn't make sense.

[zeke5123]

Not saying you are insane. Just saying that rule as applies to that fact pattern would be insane.

[COR-TEN]

StillLit -- take a look at the replay. Seabs is just wrong. It is clear that the Jets player regained possession before any part of his body touches out of bounds. At the very least, it is unclear whether or not he regained possession. So tie has to go to the Jets player. Terrible call. Literally every announcer and all post game people agreed.

What are you talking about? I've said 3 times I think he regained possession. I'm trying to think it through like the NFL did, which people are somehow misconstruing.

I get what you are saying.

[steelcountry]

Wait. Are you suggesting that because he doesn't regain possession and get a foot in bounds that he didn't regain possession? That seems insane and doesn't make sense.

That's the question I'm asking too. I dont know but to me thats the way the NFL is going to justify the call.

[SteeLori]

I've always suggested that the NFL doesn't have to script, they just nudge.

Agree.

[Thrillsseeker]

Without reading this entire thread, yet another play in a game that leads to the argument of scripted entertainment. Fumbled by TE , touchback and gives NE the ball.

Complete bullshit call.

[BethlehemSteel]

Good lord, they put AL RIVIERON in charge of league review??? They promoted upward the guy who was a terrible referee? Um, okay.

When I heard he was taking over

It's bad to worse

Asj play proves there is bad ass schecanery going on

Every week

People are already switching it off

5 years of utter self implosion

When the CBA fight occurs. It will be a huge huge permanent NFL black eye

Some fire and pitchforks in NJ

http://forums.theganggreen.com/threads/ ... gue.89227/

[Donnie Brasco]

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-pa ... ty-obvious

[steelclan]

Jets TD overturn was Troy Colts bad.

[Baltostiller]

Jets TD overturn was Troy Colts bad.

But it provided the point differential in the game. Troy's pick didn't. The right team won the game.

[steelclan]

Jets TD overturn was Troy Colts bad.

But it provided the point differential in the game. Troy's pick didn't. The right team won the game.

You assumed that was context I was working from. It wasn't. I was merely referring to fact both plays were incorrectly overturned. I didn't provide thoughts on big picture you did.

[Legacy User]

The sad part of bad officiating is it actually helps the game. FIFA resisted goal line cameras for years because they said that the human error from officiating kept viewers interested in the game. They actually have credible data showing that to be so. We have a thread about complaining about the officiating it shows that you care and gives others something to talk about.

The last time we won in Miami was memorable only because of that call on the fumble in the end zone didn't have a clear recovery by the Dolphins (when a Miami player was the one who gave the ball to the ref). I didn't have to search for that game on the NFL network or do a deep dive into the archives- I knew instantly about a game that most of you forgot until I said "fumble recovery that wasn't"- and that is the power of bad officiating. Let's try it again "bad coin flip", "12 men on the field during an FG" or "holding on 3rd down in the playoffs"- memories of Detriot and that playoff game against the Titans and Jags should come to mind almost instantly. No one remembers that blow out we put on Denver two years ago or NE on that Halloween because there wasn't anything negative to make us remember.

[Kodiak]

If someone bobbles or juggles a package, you wouldn't say they dropped it (because they didn't).

So I guess I just don't understand how you fumble - i.e. lose possession - without actually dropping it.

Which reminds me....A few years ago in the Steeler game, a punt returner bobbled the ball and PIT grabbed it before it hit the ground. Possession was rewarded to the returner because he has to have an opportunity to catch it. In other words, it's not a fumble on a return until it hits the ground!

[rocky mtn stiller]

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806928/referee-on-controversial-overturned-jets-td-it-was-pretty-obvious

If Seferian-Jenkins as a runner touched the pylon first, it would be a touchdown?

"No. You've got to keep in mind, he doesn't have possession of the football yet. When he lost the ball short of the goal line, when he lost the ball, he re-gained control but that doesn't mean he possesses the ball. He doesn't possess the ball until he's completed going to the ground now and re-controlling the ball, which he did not survive the ground, which is why it wasn't a touchdown. Had he never lost control of the ball in the first place, you would have a touchdown. But because he lost the ball and now has to re-establish control of the ball, that was the period of time."

This kind of crap is mind boggling.

[Jobu]

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806928/referee-on-controversial-overturned-jets-td-it-was-pretty-obvious

If Seferian-Jenkins as a runner touched the pylon first, it would be a touchdown?

"No. You've got to keep in mind, he doesn't have possession of the football yet. When he lost the ball short of the goal line, when he lost the ball, he re-gained control but that doesn't mean he possesses the ball. He doesn't possess the ball until he's completed going to the ground now and re-controlling the ball, which he did not survive the ground, which is why it wasn't a touchdown. Had he never lost control of the ball in the first place, you would have a touchdown. But because he lost the ball and now has to re-establish control of the ball, that was the period of time."

This kind of crap is mind boggling.

This type of bullshit is what “replay” has brought. Destroying the nature of the game under the guise of getting the call right.

[Thrillsseeker]

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806928/referee-on-controversial-overturned-jets-td-it-was-pretty-obvious

If Seferian-Jenkins as a runner touched the pylon first, it would be a touchdown?

"No. You've got to keep in mind, he doesn't have possession of the football yet. When he lost the ball short of the goal line, when he lost the ball, he re-gained control but that doesn't mean he possesses the ball. He doesn't possess the ball until he's completed going to the ground now and re-controlling the ball, which he did not survive the ground, which is why it wasn't a touchdown. Had he never lost control of the ball in the first place, you would have a touchdown. But because he lost the ball and now has to re-establish control of the ball, that was the period of time."

This kind of crap is mind boggling.

It sure is. Unfucking real. It's like we all haven't watched football before and are expected to believe these bullshit explanations.

[BethlehemSteel]

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806928/referee-on-controversial-overturned-jets-td-it-was-pretty-obvious

If Seferian-Jenkins as a runner touched the pylon first, it would be a touchdown?

"No. You've got to keep in mind, he doesn't have possession of the football yet. When he lost the ball short of the goal line, when he lost the ball, he re-gained control but that doesn't mean he possesses the ball. He doesn't possess the ball until he's completed going to the ground now and re-controlling the ball, which he did not survive the ground, which is why it wasn't a touchdown. Had he never lost control of the ball in the first place, you would have a touchdown. But because he lost the ball and now has to re-establish control of the ball, that was the period of time."

This kind of crap is mind boggling.

It sure is. Unfucking real. It's like we all haven't watched football before and are expected to believe these bullshit explanations.

They're trying to brainwash a new audience

[Nick79]

I'll say it again, even though most people won't agree with me.

I'd scrap replay completely, for every call they get right, they screw up another two and ruin the flow of the game.

If I did keep replay, it would be a guy in the booth, with a mandate to overturn only things that are stupidly obvious in real speed. like half a guys foot out of bounds, and even then, I'd give them 60 seconds, with a clock running, and a buzzer sounds, and if they can't decide it's done. Not obvious enough! No coaches challenges, no automatic reviews of anything, just a review judge looking for things so obvious a 4 year old can see them at full speed immediately.

Then I'd have a commission to eliminate 50% of all the rules. There's so much crap, nobody would notice, I'd get rid on formation penalties-other than having 5 O-lineman, make the motion like the CFL, do all kinds of stuff that would all but eliminate the whistle being blown almost never. Yes, so many of the rules are such OBSCURE GARBAGE that elimination 1/3rd to 1/2 of them would be EASY, and nobody watching the game would notice most of them being gone.

Then I'd take the radios out of the QBs helmets and make the play clock 25 seconds to force the modern players to call the plays and earn their millions like Bradshaw and Unitas did.

[Suwanee88]

I don’t understand having technology at your fingertips and they don’t use it to help referee the game - same in baseball. They are still using chains to measure first downs, total BS

[Stillerz Bar]

Jets TD overturn was Troy Colts bad.

But it provided the point differential in the game. Troy's pick didn't. The right team won the game.

Even so, Troy's pick overturn completely changed that game. Steelers get the ball there and the Colts area done with no hope and the game ends in a blowout. Of course the overturn added a ton of intrigue to the game - without it Ben's tackle doesn't happen and neither does the great replays of "He missed it" by Cowher, Bettis, Dungy & Manning. Fortunately the right team did win but a LOT had to go the Steelers way for that to happen when it should have been cruise control in the 4th.

[Nick79]

I don’t understand having technology at your fingertips and they don’t use it to help referee the game - same in baseball. They are still using chains to measure first downs, total BS

The game was BETTER without all that! Now they're obsessed with making it perfect and the truth is, it can't be done, and imposing all the technology CRAP on the game just ruins the experience.

Soccer has it right with NO REVIEWS, but the ASSHOLES from the USA want to ruin everyone else's sports too.

[Nick79]

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806928/referee-on-controversial-overturned-jets-td-it-was-pretty-obvious

If Seferian-Jenkins as a runner touched the pylon first, it would be a touchdown?

"No. You've got to keep in mind, he doesn't have possession of the football yet. When he lost the ball short of the goal line, when he lost the ball, he re-gained control but that doesn't mean he possesses the ball. He doesn't possess the ball until he's completed going to the ground now and re-controlling the ball, which he did not survive the ground, which is why it wasn't a touchdown. Had he never lost control of the ball in the first place, you would have a touchdown. But because he lost the ball and now has to re-establish control of the ball, that was the period of time."

This kind of crap is mind boggling.

This type of bullshit is what “replay” has brought. Destroying the nature of the game under the guise of getting the call right.

100% This^^^

Replay sucks, has ruined every sport that uses it!

And for every call they get right, so many others are wrong or at least baffling.

[Jobu]

I don’t understand having technology at your fingertips and they don’t use it to help referee the game - same in baseball. They are still using chains to measure first downs, total BS

I do. It’s not nuclear warfare or life changing medical breakthrough. It’s just a fucking game!
I’m with Nick on this one. ( did I really just say that?!. )

[zeke5123]

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4806928/referee-on-controversial-overturned-jets-td-it-was-pretty-obvious

If Seferian-Jenkins as a runner touched the pylon first, it would be a touchdown?

"No. You've got to keep in mind, he doesn't have possession of the football yet. When he lost the ball short of the goal line, when he lost the ball, he re-gained control but that doesn't mean he possesses the ball. He doesn't possess the ball until he's completed going to the ground now and re-controlling the ball, which he did not survive the ground, which is why it wasn't a touchdown. Had he never lost control of the ball in the first place, you would have a touchdown. But because he lost the ball and now has to re-establish control of the ball, that was the period of time."

This kind of crap is mind boggling.

Is that even English?

They spilt a lot of ink without saying anything.

[Orangesteel]

^

The quote above is the one that made no sense to me. Re-gains control but does not posess the ball? What fun football is!

[bradshaw2ben]

I don’t understand having technology at your fingertips and they don’t use it to help referee the game - same in baseball. They are still using chains to measure first downs, total BS

The technology already is in place to put rfid in balls, map out a grid of the field, and to know exactly where the ball is at all times. The company that put it together is the same one that developed the 1st down line overlay and it uses some of the same technology.

The NFL has refused to implement this technology for several years now.

[Louis Lipps Service]

I don’t understand having technology at your fingertips and they don’t use it to help referee the game - same in baseball. They are still using chains to measure first downs, total BS

The game was BETTER without all that! Now they're obsessed with making it perfect and the truth is, it can't be done, and imposing all the technology CRAP on the game just ruins the experience.

Soccer has it right with NO REVIEWS, but the ASSHOLES from the USA want to ruin everyone else's sports too.

Replay is awful, but correctly implementing technology would remove some of the ambiguity and interpretation from the game.

Putting a chip in the ball that can sense the goal line completely removes any interpretation and the result would be instant. If the sensor is triggered, it's a TD. If it wasn't triggered, then there's no TD. End of story, no argument.

Same with first downs.

There'd be far less controversy, and the games would go faster because there'd be no reason to review some of these things.

It'd enhance the entertainment experience, not hinder it like replay currently does.

I completely agree with the person who said the NFL is avoiding these things only because they want people talking about these bad calls. It fills a ton of air time and creates a lot of talking points that otherwise wouldn't be there.

The technology is there, it's cheap enough that the NFL could do it, and it's reliable.

[COR-TEN]

Some serious mental gymnastics going on in the explanation, and in the end, you can have possession of the ball but not control. Or visa versa, or not, sometimes, if it looks right, when it's obvious. Obviously. On every third sunday of leap year in october, unless it's an eclipse year. In which case a TD is only a TD if you hold the ball with your left hand pinky facing north. Jesus fucking christ.

The reason they don't want to implement technology is because it takes the decision making out of their hands. They want control, to be able to guide games and create parity, and manufacture exciting games down to the wire. Then set up rivalries or match ups later in the year. Or in the playoffs. They put their fingers on the scale. Like every other business.

[Nick79]

Putting a chip in the ball that can sense the goal line completely removes any interpretation and the result would be instant. If the sensor is triggered, it's a TD. If it wasn't triggered, then there's no TD. End of story, no argument.

Not so fast, what if the ball appears to be coming out, we'll still have to review to make sure the ball was in full possession of the runner as he crossed the line. What if it's a pass reception, we'll have to review to see that the receiver controlled the ball all the way through the process of the catch after the sensor was triggered. We may need to slow it down and get several angles and look at it closely for 7-10 minutes to make sure we get it right!

[R_S]

Putting a chip in the ball that can sense the goal line completely removes any interpretation and the result would be instant. If the sensor is triggered, it's a TD. If it wasn't triggered, then there's no TD. End of story, no argument.

Not so fast, what if the ball appears to be coming out, we'll still have to review to make sure the ball was in full possession of the runner as he crossed the line. What if it's a pass reception, we'll have to review to see that the receiver controlled the ball all the way through the process of the catch after the sensor was triggered. We may need to slow it down and get several angles and look at it closely for 7-10 minutes to make sure we get it right!

Nick is right. Absolutely..