Tomlin Extended

[StillMadAtSlobber]

Certainly. Mike McCarthy was one, and if Tomlin was another I wouldn't be surprised, although I don't think he should be.

But that's not what I was trying to show. I was just answering StillerzBar's question: "... does anyone on this board think he would get the same kind of job security elsewhere that he has had with the Steelers?"

I pointed out that all of the coaches he named except for Belichick had worse records than Tomlin, and they were all still coaching the same team. So I think there's plenty of places where Tomlin would have had that same kind of job security.

One could say that he may not have had the same job security as he has been shown in PIT as well since without Ben Tomlin doesn't have some absurd streak of no losing seasons just like without Tomlin AB does not have some absurd streak of games with 5 catches and 50 yards. I mean Payton has Brees and as much as we hate Baltimore Flacco has beaten us a good number of times. Belichik and Brady are as good as it gets and McCarthy had a pretty good QB. A good QB will cover a lot of short comings.

Exactly, try running those HQ stability numbers of coaches without franchise QBs.

[steeledge]

We're going to find that getting rid of both Bell and MC Hammer Jr was THE BEST thing this organization could have done.

"this organization" was hoping beyond hope to hang on to these dipshits
"this organization" got lucky that these dipshits took themselves and their horse to the old town road...

[Drummer Boy]

Exactly, try running those HQ stability numbers of coaches without franchise QBs.

Already answered that. You must have inadvertently missed it, since I know you love my stuff:

I agree. First thing I noticed about that list is that everybody on it has a great QB, except Harbaugh. It's not just QBs, though. Harbaugh without Ray Lewis is 50-46. And none of them has won a Super Bowl lately, except you know who.

So, in order to explain again, my original purpose was to put to bed the bullshit notion that only the Steelers would keep Tomlin around this long. Every single coach who had even close to Tomlin's record was kept around. I didn't say they should keep Tomlin around no matter what, and I didn't say that Tomlin did it by himself.

Teams who have a winning coach-QB combo tend to keep both around as long as they can. Maybe they shouldn't. That's not what my original response was about.

[Ice]

Maybe they realized they saddled him with Todd Haley and ruined a good portion of his career?

Um, no, but nice try...
Even for you, that's a ginormous stretch, B2B.

Todd Haley's offense (WHICH WAS HIS JOB) was hamstrung by the ineptitude of a defense "built" by an HC that fooled everybody into thinking he was a defensive mastermind.



Even so, Haley's LOOONG gone, so give it a fucking rest already...

T_dd Haley's "offensive system" looked like a teenager playing Madden. It was absolutely uncreative and once one of his superstar crutches was taken away, either by scheme or injury, the game was over, especially against playoff caliber teams. It was garbage, and it wasn't hamstrung by anything but it's own elementary concepts and playcalling.

[steeledge]

Maybe they realized they saddled him with Todd Haley and ruined a good portion of his career?

Um, no, but nice try...
Even for you, that's a ginormous stretch, B2B.

Todd Haley's offense (WHICH WAS HIS JOB) was hamstrung by the ineptitude of a defense "built" by an HC that fooled everybody into thinking he was a defensive mastermind.



Even so, Haley's LOOONG gone, so give it a fucking rest already...

T_dd Haley's "offensive system" looked like a teenager playing Madden. It was absolutely uncreative and once one of his superstar crutches was taken away, either by scheme or injury, the game was over, especially against playoff caliber teams. It was garbage, and it wasn't hamstrung by anything but it's own elementary concepts and playcalling.

calling bullshit right there.
Ben's best years were under T dd Haley, and it isn't even close.

Especially after he was instrumental to bringing in Munchak and playing a key role in saving Ben's career as much as his ass.
So save the hyperbole...

[Ice]

Building the line helped, but T dd Haley's offense didn't have plays. It was just a bunch of NBA style isos that asked talent to run one on one matchup games. When the talent was either schemed out or injured, the fact that there wasn't actually a system caused the offense to stall, almost always against playoff caliber teams.

Yardage and scoring were up without him, and that's with single digit defensive takeaways and a field goal kicker who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

[Legacy User]

Good lord, we are still arguing about -- and people are still defending -- Todd Haley.

Todd implemented some good things, but really, he was too enamored with "power football" and refused to play to his offense's strengths. He was a shit playcaller and, seemingly, a shit person that no one liked. Borderline toxic at the end.

[Drummer Boy]

Good lord, we are still arguing about -- and people are still defending -- Todd Haley.

Todd implemented some good things, but really, he was too enamored with "power football" and refused to play to his offense's strengths. He was a shit playcaller and, seemingly, a shit person that no one liked. Borderline toxic at the end.

Good post, but I believe Haley deserves more credit for the turnaround in offensive style. Haley was hired in 2012, apparently with the mandate of reducing the massive number of sacks Ben was taking while keeping the offense effective. That objective, with really only Tomlin and Haley in charge, was spectacularly achieved by the middle of 2013.

Sacks in the first 9 games of 2013: 5 2 3 5 4 3 5 5 4 = 36 sacks, 4 per game, 3-6 record
Sacks in the last 7 games of 2013: 1 0 0 3 1 1 1 = 7 sacks, 1 per game, 5-2 record

That is an amazing change in the middle of a season! Turnovers also went way down. The offense hasn't looked back since then, and the Steelers were back to being a good team, even with the defense still bottoming out.

For 9 1/2 years Ben was taking the most sacks in history. Since 2013, and getting better with the addition of Munchak in 2014, the Steelers almost certainly have the best pass attempt to sack ratio in the league.

I know zero about scheme, or play-calling (besides whether the play worked or not), so I'm sure everyone is right about that, and it sure seems like Haley is one of the true assholes of the universe. Haley should probably have been fired a couple years before he was, but he does deserve some real credit for the Steelers excellent offense late 2013 to 2018.

[Legacy User]

Good lord, we are still arguing about -- and people are still defending -- Todd Haley.

Todd implemented some good things, but really, he was too enamored with "power football" and refused to play to his offense's strengths. He was a shit playcaller and, seemingly, a shit person that no one liked. Borderline toxic at the end.

Good post, but I believe Haley deserves more credit for the turnaround in offensive style. Haley was hired in 2012, apparently with the mandate of reducing the massive number of sacks Ben was taking while keeping the offense effective. That objective, with really only Tomlin and Haley in charge, was spectacularly achieved by the middle of 2013.

Sacks in the first 9 games of 2013: 5 2 3 5 4 3 5 5 4 = 36 sacks, 4 per game, 3-6 record
Sacks in the last 7 games of 2013: 1 0 0 3 1 1 1 = 7 sacks, 1 per game, 5-2 record

That is an amazing change in the middle of a season! Turnovers also went way down. The offense hasn't looked back since then, and the Steelers were back to being a good team, even with the defense still bottoming out.

For 9 1/2 years Ben was taking the most sacks in history. Since 2013, and getting better with the addition of Munchak in 2014, the Steelers almost certainly have the best pass attempt to sack ratio in the league.

I know zero about scheme, or play-calling (besides whether the play worked or not), so I'm sure everyone is right about that, and it sure seems like Haley is one of the true assholes of the universe. Haley should probably have been fired a couple years before he was, but he does deserve some real credit for the Steelers excellent offense late 2013 to 2018.

I think Haley's offense, with some tweaks, and another coordinator calling plays, could be/is a very good offense. I say "is" because it's likely the offense we're running right now.

[Drummer Boy]

I think Haley's offense, with some tweaks, and another coordinator calling plays, could be/is a very good offense. I say "is" because it's likely the offense we're running right now.

I agree.

[Thrillsseeker]

My hope is the red zone scoring offense is on par with last season.

[Gonzo]

Delete

[K_C_]

We're going to find that getting rid of both Bell and MC Hammer Jr was THE BEST thing this organization could have done.

"this organization" was hoping beyond hope to hang on to these dipshits
"this organization" got lucky that these dipshits took themselves and their horse to the old town road...

I never said the Steelers weren't saved from themselves by these two mental midgets.

Obviously they were.

I never said the Steelers brass from top to bottom aren't fucking imbeciles.

Of course they are.

But what ended up occurring was THE BEST THING that could have happened to this entire organization.

[steeledge]

We're going to find that getting rid of both Bell and MC Hammer Jr was THE BEST thing this organization could have done.

"this organization" was hoping beyond hope to hang on to these dipshits
"this organization" got lucky that these dipshits took themselves and their horse to the old town road...

I never said the Steelers weren't saved from themselves by these two mental midgets.

Obviously they were.

I never said the Steelers brass from top to bottom aren't fucking imbeciles.

Of course they are.

Now that makes sense...

But what ended up occurring was THE BEST THING that could have happened to this entire organization.

In spite of themselves, as it may very well turn out.

...blind squirrel meets nut and all that...

Here's hoping they've stumbled upon a championship year!