Steelers hire new WRs coach

[chippedhamsandwich]

Not saying we should get rid of him, but he's shooting his shot at $15m.

Pro Bowl ain’t shit…

We need players on the o-line and d-line and a QB, don’t give a ridiculous 2nd contact to this guy…0

[Ice]

It isn't 2010 anymore. 15 is pretty damn close to going rate for that caliber of player, and it will look cheap in a couple of years. Maybe look up comparable contracts? It's not "ridiculous."

[drmalba]

You Canada haters are going to have to learn to deal with it. He is here to stay.

So...They doubled down on Canada.

Ok, forget Jimmy G...we ride with Rudolph, 5-10 more plays for Najee out of the wildcat and Dobbs for goal to go in the Mariota role. Minimum one fake FG, punt or onside kick along with eight jet sweeps to Claypool a game. Bring Mike Mularkey out of retirement as a consultant and incorporate every gadget play he ever ran under Cowher from his playbook. Inside the opponents 50 every 4th and 2 and less is automatic four down territory. Heyward in at least 1-2 times per game to bring some attitude to the OL as a fullback and TJ Watt 1-2 times per game for the Mike Vrabel role. If we're gonna go 4-12 and try and get a franchise guy next year the shit had better be fun to look at.

[chippedhamsandwich]

If it’s a risk assessment than I put that money into the lines and roll the dice on drafting a dude, they are not a Dionte resigning from winning the division.

Maybe if they had a QB but he ain’t making a stop gap or Rookie QB great by any means..

A contract that eats $$ like that only hurts the Steelers in the long run.

We have seen what he can do, he is good but not convinced it’s moving any dial

[anpsteel]

The problem with people that harp on DJ's drops is that they live in a bubble. They don't comprehend that ALL WRs have drops and if they looked around the NFL and watched other games, they would see that for themselves.

Cooper Kupp, Pro Bowl, 8 drops, 4.2%
Justin Jefferson, Pro Bowl, 7 drops, 4.2%
Tyreek Hill, Pro Bowl, 7 drops, 4.4%



Down the list considerably...

Stephon Diggs, 5 drops, 3.0%
Diontae Johnson, 5 drops, 3.0%

Probably the gold standard...

Davante Adams, 3 drops, 1.8%

When you have the WRs above all being targeted anywhere from 120-190 times per year, drops will happen. Get over it already, anguishing over DJ's drops makes you look ignorant.

I guess you are related to Dionte


DJ spent all of the prior season putting the ball on the floor.

He started this past season, greatly improved in that aspect, but the drops became an issue toward the end of the year. Most concerning of all were the drops on critical plays, that were drive killers.

Add to that, he's a bone headed diva, who runs sideways and backwards waaaay too much, and would rather celebrate than play football.

Lastly, he's not a true #1. He doesn't command coverage. He doesn't particularly stretch the field.

He's supplemental. On Cincy, he's on the bench. On KC, he's on the bench. On Buffalo, he might be #3.

So that's why the drops matter; and that's why you don't give him 15 mil per season.

IMO, At bare minimum, he needs to clean up his game, cut down on the key drops, and show another year of production and growth, before you can give him a big money contract.

[anpsteel]

If it’s a risk assessment than I put that money into the lines and roll the dice on drafting a dude, they are not a Dionte resigning from winning the division.

Maybe if they had a QB but he ain’t making a stop gap or Rookie QB great by any means..

A contract that eats $$ like that only hurts the Steelers in the long run.

We have seen what he can do, he is good but not convinced it’s moving any dial

In addition to what I just typed, this too. ^^

[Ice]

Let's draft good players, develop them, let them break out, and then not sign them to a second contract... sounds like a certain local baseball team's philosophy. Maybe we could trade our only explosive player on offense to the Yankees for a player to be named later and cash. The Steelers don't sign big FAs. They draft, develop and sign their own. Folks' recency bias aside, DJ is exactly the player the Steelers sign to a reasonable C2. They'll probably have to sweeten the offer a little because of the trash that will likely be throwing to him.

In the "LEt hiM wAlK dIVa dROpS" scenario, the Steelers have to spend another high pick in a draft where picks are at a premium, or considerably more than 15 mill in FA to fill the WR1 slot (and good, young WR1 prospects don't actually hit the market, anyway), meaning they would be unable to use assets to "rebuild the lines." In short, it would be awful roster management.

If we were talking about a big money C$3 down the road, sure, maybe then you think about cutting bait.

[anpsteel]

Let's draft good players, develop them, let them break out, and then not sign them to a second contract... sounds like a certain local baseball team's philosophy. Maybe we could trade our only explosive player on offense to the Yankees for a player to be named later and cash. The Steelers don't sign big FAs. They draft, develop and sign their own. Folks' recency bias aside, DJ is exactly the player the Steelers sign to a reasonable C2. They'll probably have to sweeten the offer a little because of the trash that will likely be throwing to him.

In the "LEt hiM wAlK dIVa dROpS" scenario, the Steelers have to spend another high pick in a draft where picks are at a premium, or considerably more than 15 mill in FA to fill the WR1 slot (and good, young WR1 prospects don't actually hit the market, anyway), meaning they would be unable to use assets to "rebuild the lines." In short, it would be awful roster management.

If we were talking about a big money C$3 down the road, sure, maybe then you think about cutting bait.

I'm not saying don't resign him, I'm just saying don't over pay him based upon one season of decent- but flawed production.

The team has too many holes to fill, to throw $15mil p/yr at an above average receiver.

[Ice]

Let's draft good players, develop them, let them break out, and then not sign them to a second contract... sounds like a certain local baseball team's philosophy. Maybe we could trade our only explosive player on offense to the Yankees for a player to be named later and cash. The Steelers don't sign big FAs. They draft, develop and sign their own. Folks' recency bias aside, DJ is exactly the player the Steelers sign to a reasonable C2. They'll probably have to sweeten the offer a little because of the trash that will likely be throwing to him.

In the "LEt hiM wAlK dIVa dROpS" scenario, the Steelers have to spend another high pick in a draft where picks are at a premium, or considerably more than 15 mill in FA to fill the WR1 slot (and good, young WR1 prospects don't actually hit the market, anyway), meaning they would be unable to use assets to "rebuild the lines." In short, it would be awful roster management.

If we were talking about a big money C$3 down the road, sure, maybe then you think about cutting bait.

I'm not saying don't resign him, I'm just saying don't over pay him based upon one season of decent- but flawed production.

The team has too many holes to fill, to throw $15mil p/yr at an above average receiver.

Unless you want below average receivers, that's the going rate. By any statistical measure, the guy's performance isn't average, even less so within the context of the offense and surrounding personnel. Look at him, statistically, in comparison with other top WRs in their first three years. If you just have something against the player, well, that's a fan's perspective, and you're certainly entitled, but the data doesn't back it up, and that puts aside the fact that it creates yet another hole on a roster that already has too many, unless you're expecting Claypool to make giant strides and become a legit NFL WR1 in his 3rd season. When you're a draft and develop team, you have to hold on to the homegrown talent.

[DP39]

The problem with people that harp on DJ's drops is that they live in a bubble. They don't comprehend that ALL WRs have drops and if they looked around the NFL and watched other games, they would see that for themselves.

Cooper Kupp, Pro Bowl, 8 drops, 4.2%
Justin Jefferson, Pro Bowl, 7 drops, 4.2%
Tyreek Hill, Pro Bowl, 7 drops, 4.4%



Down the list considerably...

Stephon Diggs, 5 drops, 3.0%
Diontae Johnson, 5 drops, 3.0%

Probably the gold standard...

Davante Adams, 3 drops, 1.8%

When you have the WRs above all being targeted anywhere from 120-190 times per year, drops will happen. Get over it already, anguishing over DJ's drops makes you look ignorant.

I'm somewhat torn on DJ as a true WR1. I see him as more of a WR2 on a SB contending team -- and isn't that what you want to build your team as (and spend you bigger $s on)?

Scunge, while a very much appreciate the abundance of stat work you do for your posts, I sometime wonder if you focus too much on that and not enough on what your eyes see. Or, maybe you don't get to watch a ton of other NFL games. If so, that's certainly understandable and also explains your penchant for digging deep into stats.

My point is that my eyes see these other great WR1s and their drops and most of them are asked to catch a much different pass than DJ is. Take Kupp for example, that dude has to make some lightning quick catching decisions and his reaction time is other-worldly. His "drops" aren't usually on the same level as some of DJ's (of which I've seen every one of his plays). Yes, all WRs drop passes, but MANY of DJ's drops (over the years) are very, very routine catches. All drops are not equal is the moral, I guess.

That's the difference between DJ and the other WRs you list -- that his drops don't quite compare on level of difficultly. Those guys are more often put in much more difficult catching situations -- at least that's what my eyes have shown me. And yes, Adams is crazy good. He has a dozen or more tricks that he and Rodgers almost always execute at near perfection. Time and time again, it's a great example of elite focus by both of them.

That's not to say that I don't think we should resign DJ. He's been fortunate to have a QB in Ben that has played a style of offense that has, in part, led to his high stats. He played with a QB that can create a "stat" WR1, if just in numbers/volume alone.

I'm not sure $75M/5yr is what I would do -- based on his true talent that I've seen, and where this team is now and will be for the next few years. (Let's face it, DJ, like most good skill players will want to redo any 5 year deal in 2-3 years, so we won't really reap the "sign him now and it'll be a steal in 5 years" monies).

In today's game, outside of elite WR1s, WR is becoming more of a constant feeding position. Draft one every year in hopes he'll develop into a good WR2 or 3 (or true WR1, if you're lucky). Nowadays, there seems to be plenty of those kind of guys consistently coming from the college pool.

I would like to see him resigned, but I personally think he's a talent that I value (for the PS and their next few years) in the $10-12.5M/per range. Maybe $60M/5yrs....and no more than $24M G money, tops. I think that would be my best offer -- take it or leave it.

As always, thanks for the stats and thoughts. Resigning DJ, and at what price, is a good offseason problem to have, I guess.

[Kodiak.]

Another reason to sign DJ, though it's not been how they've operated, is if he walks as a FA it's an R3 probably an R4 comp. But you might be able to trade him for something of an R2, maybe even a bit more. Basically, you'd be converting some of your salary cap into draft capital by absorbing part of his C2 cap hit in a trade.

I feel like other teams may have made that work a bit in the past. Not sure it's good business. Trading away +players to get more draft capital seems like a risk of stepping backwards. But, as a hypothetical, Ben Roethlisberger is sitting there at #10, do you trade a DJ to go get him? All day, every day. Watt? Too much, because in this hypothetical you can love young Ben but no idea he'll be a HOFer.

[Kodiak.]

The other interesting thing about DJ. I feel like that's a pretty fair and reasonable demand. I'd be asking for more than I'm worth because, given the state of this offense, I'd probably like to be a UFA. But the flipside of that coin is, given the state of this offense, he could see his value plummet next year.

I think I'd make that deal, favoring a backloaded structure such that it's cheaper if I decide to cut him in a year or two. Alternatively, it might create some options to trade in a year or two if it's not working out. Even if he under-performs the next few years in a shit offense, he might still have similar trade value to a team that sees the potential.

So I think signing him creates option value with minimal downside. Again, people are getting hung up with the cap when the Steelers wiil, very soon, be struggling to spend the cap minimum.

[DP39]

The other interesting thing about DJ. I feel like that's a pretty fair and reasonable demand. I'd be asking for more than I'm worth because, given the state of this offense, I'd probably like to be a UFA. But the flipside of that coin is, given the state of this offense, he could see his value plummet next year.

I think I'd make that deal, favoring a backloaded structure such that it's cheaper if I decide to cut him in a year or two. Alternatively, it might create some options to trade in a year or two if it's not working out. Even if he under-performs the next few years in a shit offense, he might still have similar trade value to a team that sees the potential.

So I think signing him creates option value with minimal downside. Again, people are getting hung up with the cap when the Steelers wiil, very soon, be struggling to spend the cap minimum.

All good points.

[bradshaw2ben]

My first move would be to tell DJ he is WR#3 and we are going to draft and sign accordingly!

Meaning there’s no #1 nor #2? Interesting.

[langer]

There's gonna be a mutiny if they can't get someone to throw the ball as a passer to these guys.

It could make AB's meltdowns seem like a walk in Schenley Park.

[anpsteel]

There's gonna be a mutiny if they can't get someone to throw the ball as a passer to these guys.

It could make AB's meltdowns seem like a walk in Schenley Park.

Yeah, apparently JuJu is playing wait and see, regarding negotiations w/the Steelers, pending determining who the QB is.

but he's already blowing Jerry Jones for the locker room, so I hope the team has moved on.


In general the receiving room isn't terrible, and could be very good, but they really need to be coached up, and maybe moreso- an attitude adjustment.

Also, some speed outside would be nice and help the rest of the receivers.

The one receiver I want them to keep, but is most likely gone is Washington. Maybe the new coach can persuade him to stay.

[langer]

Someones has to fill the void Ben ;leaves with teaching the WRs how to do their job, even if he didn;t do the best job. We see what these guys are, and it's a rag tag group. DJ is a leader, but he's also got holes in his leadership game, obviously. The other guys are directionless dummies.

I can't see a coach being the teacher and psychologist. Ike Hilliard was a very good WR in his career, if he had trouble motivating these dudes, who can.

I have said quite frequently this leadership needs to swallow it's pride and bring in a sports psychologist or a squad of them. That ain't ever gonna happen.

[LakecrestSteeler]

My first move would be to tell DJ he is WR#3 and we are going to draft and sign accordingly!

Meaning there’s no #1 nor #2? Interesting.

It is interesting! Who is number 2? Will it be JuJu? Is it Claypool? Can JuJu be the WR1? Will they bring JuJu back or should they?

Claypool is not better than DJ or JuJu! So how can I say DJ should be WR3?

I am left confused and B2B is left confused and I think that is exactly why our WR corp is so suspect! They are just not fulfilling their potential and I think DJ is very suspect even though he has stats that probably say otherwise.

Probably is coaching! Misuse? Overrating skills? Not coaching up and improving in many aspects? Not meshing with gameplan or gameplan not meshing with WR skillset? Ben’s play? Footwork and route discipline? Will be interesting to see what happens.

Lot of good posts on this thread. Scunge, DP39, Kodiak’s makes one stop and think! You have to be rock solid and steady in your vision, principles, and philosophy! That is why PS FO are getting paid the big bucks.

DJ will be back coupled with a new WR coach. I am content with that. If I am a betting man, most of the ills fall on WR coach. It wasn’t that long ago that AB was here and every WR actually looked a bit like him in their routes, mannerisms and footwork. That has totally vanished, and so has AB and the coaching that helped create AB! That is no coincidence.

[MJG75]

The problem with people that harp on DJ's drops is that they live in a bubble. They don't comprehend that ALL WRs have drops and if they looked around the NFL and watched other games, they would see that for themselves.

Cooper Kupp, Pro Bowl, 8 drops, 4.2%
Justin Jefferson, Pro Bowl, 7 drops, 4.2%
Tyreek Hill, Pro Bowl, 7 drops, 4.4%



Down the list considerably...

Stephon Diggs, 5 drops, 3.0%
Diontae Johnson, 5 drops, 3.0%

Probably the gold standard...

Davante Adams, 3 drops, 1.8%

When you have the WRs above all being targeted anywhere from 120-190 times per year, drops will happen. Get over it already, anguishing over DJ's drops makes you look ignorant.

Great stats! I had wondered about that, so thank you for looking it up. I saw a young man who worked hard at his game to improve it, and did so successfully. Is he there yet? Not yet but I'm really impressed that he made progress in his development with really no mentor for him on the team. He had to step up on his own. My biggest complaint about his play is that he seems to often go for high risk, high reward moves but at inopportune times. Someone needs to teach this kid that it is ok sometimes to just put your head down and make sure you got the 1st, rather than try to make that big play where he would fall short of the sticks. Good coaching would help with that. Like him or not (and I do kind of like the kid), he's the best WR we have. Not saying much, but you have to build somewhere, with someone, and he's shown me enough that he is hungry to succeed that I'd take a chance on keeping him. A lot will also depend on where they go with QB, chemistry, etc.

[86n96]

It's a surprise, but also a move that should have been made. I've seen practically no progression from the WR group over the past 3-4 years.

Also saw that he's been "passing game coordinator". And if we get Munchak back, he can be the "run game coordinator". And with a lot of luck, they can make Canada look like a halfway decent OC.

I don't think its a surprise. Our receivers played like they were poorly coached. Been downhill since Mann retired, IMO.