A new Ben/Arians relationship/retirement story

[RemoAZ]

Maybe not new but this is the first time I've heard it stated this way before about the Superbowl loss being the reason.

https://www.steelernation.com/2023/02/0 ... hlisberger

Recently, former Pittsburgh Steelers offensive lineman, Max Starks accused retired quarterback, Ben Roethlisberger and offensive coordinator at the time, Bruce Arians of constructing a game plan for Super Bowl XLV in order to make the signal-caller MVP of the game. It has caused plenty of speculation about the game and many believe if Pittsburgh was run heavy from the very beginning, would have been victorious. Instead, Roethlisberger's pass attempts almost doubled the team's rushing attempts.

[bradshaw2ben]

The OL failed on the most crucial time in the passing attempts, and it failed at the most crucial time in the run game. The OL had way more to do with losing that game than the gameplan.

Additionally, no Maurkice Pouncey meant hot garbage vs BJ Raji. Even thought Raji not known as a big run defender.

But, yeah, imagine formulating a game plan with a piss poor OL that leans on your best player. Imagine!

[langer]

Max Starks accused retired quarterback, Ben Roethlisberger and offensive coordinator at the time, Bruce Arians of constructing a game plan for Super Bowl XLV in order to make the signal-caller MVP of the game.

Does this make any sense at all.


So according to Stuck in Local Media Max, Arians and Ben schemed up a way that would maximize Ben's numbers and play and didn't created a plan to play Tomlin ball and turtle eeking out a win and relying on that douchebag Mendenhall.

Is Max saying this to align with the Fumbling Bard? I wonder if that is some solidarity, and yet another disgruntled idiot whining about the one guy who made the team a winner for many years. He might have had these ideas when Ben was getting actually to the Super Bowl but didn't say anything while he was doing so.

So many ungrateful assholes come out of the woodwork to lay their inadequacies and bullshit at Ben's feet.

Fuck these chumps, they'd be NOTHING without Ben.

That said, big ol Max can barely stuff himself in a Hummer.

[Ice]

The OL failed on the most crucial time in the passing attempts, and it failed at the most crucial time in the run game. The OL had way more to do with losing that game than the gameplan.

Additionally, no Maurkice Pouncey meant hot garbage vs BJ Raji. Even thought Raji not known as a big run defender.

But, yeah, imagine formulating a game plan with a piss poor OL that leans on your best player. Imagine!

This.

[RemoAZ]

Just thought it was interesting that Arians might have been run out of town for not following what Tomlin wanted to do. Obviously they still threw it a lot when Haley came on board so it couldn't be totally because they threw the ball a lot in the game. Maybe it was because they were throwing it too much or he told them to start running it more and they didn't or something like that. I hadn't heard that angle and Florio confirmed the story that's why I shared the article. That doesn't mean it's true of course but still where there's smoke and all. I still think the main reason is he needed to go was to change the offense to keep Ben from getting killed which was confirmed by seeing how many QBs Arians got injured with other teams. Basically the only one he could keep upright instead of setting career sack records was Brady who did what he wanted, not what Arians coached.

[Kodiak.]

By the way, Starks was injured and did not play (I don't think).

I thought he and Ben were tight. But I guess Starks is a "journalist" now and gots bills to pay.


Seriously, though. Always liked Starks, and he's supposedly very intelligent. But this does feel a little like clickbait.

And on a related note, the gameplan makes PERFECT sense. They had seen Rodgers at least a few times before and it those were shootouts. The gameplan was perfect - the OL and Mendenhall fucked it up.

[El Kabong]

By the way, Starks was injured and did not play (I don't think).

I thought he and Ben were tight. But I guess Starks is a "journalist" now and gots bills to pay.


Seriously, though. Always liked Starks, and he's supposedly very intelligent. But this does feel a little like clickbait.

And on a related note, the gameplan makes PERFECT sense. They had seen Rodgers at least a few times before and it those were shootouts. The gameplan was perfect - the OL and Mendenhall fucked it up.

Are you saying Tomlin approved the perfect game plan for Super Bowl XLV?

[Jobu]

By the way, Starks was injured and did not play (I don't think).

I thought he and Ben were tight. But I guess Starks is a "journalist" now and gots bills to pay.


Seriously, though. Always liked Starks, and he's supposedly very intelligent. But this does feel a little like clickbait.

And on a related note, the gameplan makes PERFECT sense. They had seen Rodgers at least a few times before and it those were shootouts. The gameplan was perfect - the OL and Mendenhall fucked it up.

Are you saying Tomlin approved the perfect game plan for Super Bowl XLV?

Apparently, your guy Shades wasn’t in the loop here. Fired…err, “retired” Arians and then brought in Haley to put Roethlisberger in his place!
One could argue that this is the point where Tomlin put his stamp on the organization. The rest is history…

[Kodiak.]

Are you saying Tomlin approved the perfect game plan for Super Bowl XLV?

Arians and Ben, yes. Tomlin's contribution was likely the catastrophic "easing in" approach.

Because we know Tomlin sure as fuck wasn't anticipating beating Rodgers in a shootout. I'm sure he was 100% confident playing the same defense Rodgers had torched before was going to work this time.

Tomlin owes EVERYTHING to Cowher. Because if he had gotten the typical rebuilding project, zero doubt he's done as a HC within 5 years.

[955876]

I just looked at the play by play.

The run/pass mix was pretty balanced to start the game with a slight favor to the pass but that could have been due to down & distance which I really didn’t get into.

Plus, when you fall behind 21-3 you pretty much have to pass to catch-up.

I think Max is just trying to somehow be relevant because outside of a few Steelers fans, nobody knows or gives a shit who Max Starks is.

[Ice]

I just looked at the play by play.

The run/pass mix was pretty balanced to start the game with a slight favor to the pass but that could have been due to down & distance which I really didn’t get into.

Plus, when you fall behind 21-3 you pretty much have to pass to catch-up.

I think Max is just trying to somehow be relevant because outside of a few Steelers fans, nobody knows or gives a shit who Max Starks is.

And that number just got smaller.

[JackLambert58]

The OL failed on the most crucial time in the passing attempts, and it failed at the most crucial time in the run game. The OL had way more to do with losing that game than the gameplan.

Additionally, no Maurkice Pouncey meant hot garbage vs BJ Raji. Even thought Raji not known as a big run defender.

But, yeah, imagine formulating a game plan with a piss poor OL that leans on your best player. Imagine!

Anyone with a pair of eyes could watch the two turnover - the pick six and fumble - and see that shit-ass O-line getting blown up. Howard Green ass-raped Chris Keomeatu and slammed into Ben causing that INT. For Cripes sakes, Buck and Aikman even pointed it out on the replay, but turd Yinzers blame Ben. On the fumble, I am absolutely no fan of Socrates Mendenhall, but Clay Matthews blows through Legursky and DJ to slam him four yards behind the line of scrimmage causing the fumble. Sure, you can question Mendenhall's ball secure skills, but that O-line was schooled all fuckin day long as was the defensive secondary, but sure blame Ben.

[JackLambert58]

I just looked at the play by play.

The run/pass mix was pretty balanced to start the game with a slight favor to the pass but that could have been due to down & distance which I really didn’t get into.

Plus, when you fall behind 21-3 you pretty much have to pass to catch-up.

I think Max is just trying to somehow be relevant because outside of a few Steelers fans, nobody knows or gives a shit who Max Starks is.

And that number just got smaller.

Yep, I actually used to like him. No more.

[Steeldrama]

Max Starks= Grade A Jagoff

[COR-TEN]

The OL failed on the most crucial time in the passing attempts, and it failed at the most crucial time in the run game. The OL had way more to do with losing that game than the gameplan.

Additionally, no Maurkice Pouncey meant hot garbage vs BJ Raji. Even thought Raji not known as a big run defender.

But, yeah, imagine formulating a game plan with a piss poor OL that leans on your best player. Imagine!

Anyone with a pair of eyes could watch the two turnover - the pick six and fumble - and see that shit-ass O-line getting blown up. Howard Green ass-raped Chris Keomeatu and slammed into Ben causing that INT. For Cripes sakes, Buck and Aikman even pointed it out on the replay, but turd Yinzers blame Ben. On the fumble, I am absolutely no fan of Socrates Mendenhall, but Clay Matthews blows through Legursky and DJ to slam him four yards behind the line of scrimmage causing the fumble. Sure, you can question Mendenhall's ball secure skills, but that O-line was schooled all fuckin day long as was the defensive secondary, but sure blame Ben.

Sorry. I have to disagree. The onus is on the QB on whether to let the ball go or not. Throw it away or not. BR chose to risk it and take a chance. A poor choice. That's not saying the O line wasn't partly responsible. They were inadequate all game long. BR could have thrown it away but was overconfident and wanted to prove something based on the events of that year. And A Rogers was playing at his best, picking apart the steelers D at will with deadly accuracy. It would have been worse had the packers receivers not dropped a bunch of balls.

[JackLambert58]

The OL failed on the most crucial time in the passing attempts, and it failed at the most crucial time in the run game. The OL had way more to do with losing that game than the gameplan.

Additionally, no Maurkice Pouncey meant hot garbage vs BJ Raji. Even thought Raji not known as a big run defender.

But, yeah, imagine formulating a game plan with a piss poor OL that leans on your best player. Imagine!

Anyone with a pair of eyes could watch the two turnover - the pick six and fumble - and see that shit-ass O-line getting blown up. Howard Green ass-raped Chris Keomeatu and slammed into Ben causing that INT. For Cripes sakes, Buck and Aikman even pointed it out on the replay, but turd Yinzers blame Ben. On the fumble, I am absolutely no fan of Socrates Mendenhall, but Clay Matthews blows through Legursky and DJ to slam him four yards behind the line of scrimmage causing the fumble. Sure, you can question Mendenhall's ball secure skills, but that O-line was schooled all fuckin day long as was the defensive secondary, but sure blame Ben.

Sorry. I have to disagree. The onus is on the QB on whether to let the ball go or not. Throw it away or not. BR chose to risk it and take a chance. A poor choice. That's not saying the O line wasn't partly responsible. They were inadequate all game long. BR could have thrown it away but was overconfident and wanted to prove something based on the events of that year. And A Rogers was playing at his best, picking apart the steelers D at will with deadly accuracy. It would have been worse had the packers receivers not dropped a bunch of balls.

I don't know, man. I'm no QB so maybe you know better than me, but it looks to me like he was in the process of throwing when Green hits him so I don't how he is able to throw it away at that point. Perhaps it was questionable to throw to Wallace with two defenders near him.

Here's the play: https://youtu.be/jXYJlusi4qA

[Deebo]

Anyone with a pair of eyes could watch the two turnover - the pick six and fumble - and see that shit-ass O-line getting blown up. Howard Green ass-raped Chris Keomeatu and slammed into Ben causing that INT. For Cripes sakes, Buck and Aikman even pointed it out on the replay, but turd Yinzers blame Ben. On the fumble, I am absolutely no fan of Socrates Mendenhall, but Clay Matthews blows through Legursky and DJ to slam him four yards behind the line of scrimmage causing the fumble. Sure, you can question Mendenhall's ball secure skills, but that O-line was schooled all fuckin day long as was the defensive secondary, but sure blame Ben.

Sorry. I have to disagree. The onus is on the QB on whether to let the ball go or not. Throw it away or not. BR chose to risk it and take a chance. A poor choice. That's not saying the O line wasn't partly responsible. They were inadequate all game long. BR could have thrown it away but was overconfident and wanted to prove something based on the events of that year. And A Rogers was playing at his best, picking apart the steelers D at will with deadly accuracy. It would have been worse had the packers receivers not dropped a bunch of balls.

I don't know, man. I'm no QB so maybe you know better than me, but it looks to me like he was in the process of throwing when Green hits him so I don't how he is able to throw it away at that point. Perhaps it was questionable to throw to Wallace with two defenders near him.

Here's the play: https://youtu.be/jXYJlusi4qA

That play is surely a TD if Ben gets a clean release off. Wallace, 2 defenders or not, was going to blow by both of them.

[COR-TEN]

Anyone with a pair of eyes could watch the two turnover - the pick six and fumble - and see that shit-ass O-line getting blown up. Howard Green ass-raped Chris Keomeatu and slammed into Ben causing that INT. For Cripes sakes, Buck and Aikman even pointed it out on the replay, but turd Yinzers blame Ben. On the fumble, I am absolutely no fan of Socrates Mendenhall, but Clay Matthews blows through Legursky and DJ to slam him four yards behind the line of scrimmage causing the fumble. Sure, you can question Mendenhall's ball secure skills, but that O-line was schooled all fuckin day long as was the defensive secondary, but sure blame Ben.

Sorry. I have to disagree. The onus is on the QB on whether to let the ball go or not. Throw it away or not. BR chose to risk it and take a chance. A poor choice. That's not saying the O line wasn't partly responsible. They were inadequate all game long. BR could have thrown it away but was overconfident and wanted to prove something based on the events of that year. And A Rogers was playing at his best, picking apart the steelers D at will with deadly accuracy. It would have been worse had the packers receivers not dropped a bunch of balls.

I don't know, man. I'm no QB so maybe you know better than me, but it looks to me like he was in the process of throwing when Green hits him so I don't how he is able to throw it away at that point. Perhaps it was questionable to throw to Wallace with two defenders near him.

Here's the play: https://youtu.be/jXYJlusi4qA

Nope. I don't know better than you. It's debatable, I guess. I just think that knowing your O-line is banged up and your starting center is out maybe BR should have thought twice about tossing it? It's not like he didn't see legursky about to get dumped in his lap. I'm not trying to defend the O line or shit on BR, btw. It is what it is.

[lifelongsteel]

Arians and Ben going into that game with a secondary focus on getting Ben the MVP is totally plausible. Not sure if it happened, but plausible. I'd be surprised if Ben wasn't pissed about the 08 MPV going to Holmes.

And this is the most logical reasoning behind the Arians "retirement" that I've heard.

I have a hard time rewatching Steelers' big game losses. My memories include Rodgers playing an incredible game and the big steelers mistakes - the pick six and the fumble. That said, they had the ball with a chance to win, but unlike 08 they couldn't get it done.

[Kodiak.]

I guess Starks accomplished his goal.

But it's just a braindead comment. Ben was at his peak powers at that point, an absolute assassin and top-5, if not top-3 QB in the league.

The idea that the gameplan - against Rodgers - should have been run-heavy or run-first is just dumb.

Yeah, they had some protection issues. That was nothing new for Ben, for pretty much his entire career to that point.

[El Kabong]

Fired…err, “retired” Arians

I remember the end of season press conference in which Tomlin was asked if Arians would be back, and Tomlin said yes. Then later in the week Arians was "retired." I think Tomlin wanted Arians back and expected him to be back, and he was fired by someone higher up.

[Jobu]

Fired…err, “retired” Arians

I remember the end of season press conference in which Tomlin was asked if Arians would be back, and Tomlin said yes. Then later in the week Arians was "retired." I think Tomlin wanted Arians back and expected him to be back, and he was fired by someone higher up.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... c_0e2gshe9

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... uknim2M5Tk

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... FIWYFdN6G2

“We did contact the Steelers, and we asked them if they had a comment on this,” Kremer said on PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio. “And they said, ‘Look, this is ancient history for us. Mike’s already talked about this.’ But [they] made it clear that this was Mike Tomlin’s decision, to fire Bruce Arians.”

Cardinals T-shirts currently carry the words “trust,” “loyalty,” and “respect.” Said Arians at one point to Kremer: “Yeah, well, those are words that I don’t think are on the Steelers’ jerseys.”

Arians’ wife said in the trailer she felt “disillusioned” and lost respect in Tomlin.

Arians believes his style of offense and his relationship with quarterback Ben Roethlisberger were the reasons why he was let go.

It is old news at this point, but it is also quite revealing to know how betrayed Arians felt with his departure from Pittsburgh.

[langer]

I would like Moron Max to tell us exactly, because he is smart, what that means that a game plan is designed to make Ben MVP.

Would that include winning the fucking game you oaf. Doesn't that have to happen?

And who the hell else would it be at that point.

That guy opens his mouth and stupid just pours out of it. What a dick.

[Kodiak.]

Arians is a great coach. Tomlin is not.

It's really that simple. I do think Tomlin wanted to keep BA (because firing him creates work), but was told a new approach was needed to prolong Ben's career (also accurate).

So no big conspiracy theory here. Other than just another example of how Tomlin was a huge beneficiary of circumstance.

[Baltostiller]

Sorry. I have to disagree. The onus is on the QB on whether to let the ball go or not. Throw it away or not. BR chose to risk it and take a chance. A poor choice. That's not saying the O line wasn't partly responsible. They were inadequate all game long. BR could have thrown it away but was overconfident and wanted to prove something based on the events of that year. And A Rogers was playing at his best, picking apart the steelers D at will with deadly accuracy. It would have been worse had the packers receivers not dropped a bunch of balls.

I don't know, man. I'm no QB so maybe you know better than me, but it looks to me like he was in the process of throwing when Green hits him so I don't how he is able to throw it away at that point. Perhaps it was questionable to throw to Wallace with two defenders near him.

Here's the play: https://youtu.be/jXYJlusi4qA

Nope. I don't know better than you. It's debatable, I guess. I just think that knowing your O-line is banged up and your starting center is out maybe BR should have thought twice about tossing it? It's not like he didn't see legursky about to get dumped in his lap. I'm not trying to defend the O line or shit on BR, btw. It is what it is.

It was Kick'em Kemoatu who got deposited on Ben's lap on that play. Also, did Wallace not fucking see the ball? Slow down and play defense when you see the ball in the air like that. Also, on Socrates Fumblehall's play it was 2nd and 2 on the first play of the 4th quarter, down 21-17 and with all of the momentum on your side. If that imbecile doesn't fumble I guarantee the Steelers win that game. Fuck him and Starks.

[jeemie]

If Ben did anything “wrong”, it was the pump fake.

A pump fake is supposed to freeze a defender.

The pump fake on that play brought Nick Collins INTO the passing lane.

I am assuming the pump fake was an attempt to freeze the defender running with Wallace (not sure what Wallace was doing on his end to sell the pump fake…usually it’s a double move…can’t see if he made one).

[bradshaw2ben]

Arians and Ben going into that game with a secondary focus on getting Ben the MVP is totally plausible. Not sure if it happened, but plausible. I'd be surprised if Ben wasn't pissed about the 08 MPV going to Holmes.

And this is the most logical reasoning behind the Arians "retirement" that I've heard.

I have a hard time rewatching Steelers' big game losses. My memories include Rodgers playing an incredible game and the big steelers mistakes - the pick six and the fumble. That said, they had the ball with a chance to win, but unlike 08 they couldn't get it done.

There;'s only one problem with this theory: Arians coached another season after this game. His last game was the Broncos game, where Tim Tebow shredded the Steelers defense and the offensive coordinator got fired. You can't make that shit up.

[bradshaw2ben]

I don't know, man. I'm no QB so maybe you know better than me, but it looks to me like he was in the process of throwing when Green hits him so I don't how he is able to throw it away at that point. Perhaps it was questionable to throw to Wallace with two defenders near him.

Here's the play: https://youtu.be/jXYJlusi4qA

Nope. I don't know better than you. It's debatable, I guess. I just think that knowing your O-line is banged up and your starting center is out maybe BR should have thought twice about tossing it? It's not like he didn't see legursky about to get dumped in his lap. I'm not trying to defend the O line or shit on BR, btw. It is what it is.

It was Kick'em Kemoatu who got deposited on Ben's lap on that play. Also, did Wallace not fucking see the ball? Slow down and play defense when you see the ball in the air like that. Also, on Socrates Fumblehall's play it was 2nd and 2 on the first play of the 4th quarter, down 21-17 and with all of the momentum on your side. If that imbecile doesn't fumble I guarantee the Steelers win that game. Fuck him and Starks.

Mike Wallace had the ball tracking skills of a blind sloth. Perhaps the biggest weakness in his game as a receiver, other than being planted to the ground despite a 40" vertical he never used at the catch point.

[Steelperch]

If I was an Olineman from that team I’d shut the fuck up. The one pick from the end zone was on Kemo for getting blown up at the snap and the Mendenhall fumble was in large part due to shitty blocking. That group sucked.

[JackLambert58]

Arians and Ben going into that game with a secondary focus on getting Ben the MVP is totally plausible. Not sure if it happened, but plausible. I'd be surprised if Ben wasn't pissed about the 08 MPV going to Holmes.

And this is the most logical reasoning behind the Arians "retirement" that I've heard.

I have a hard time rewatching Steelers' big game losses. My memories include Rodgers playing an incredible game and the big steelers mistakes - the pick six and the fumble. That said, they had the ball with a chance to win, but unlike 08 they couldn't get it done.

There;'s only one problem with this theory: Arians coached another season after this game. His last game was the Broncos game, where Tim Tebow shredded the Steelers defense and the offensive coordinator got fired. You can't make that shit up.

I think that's around the time the legendary "Any Lebeau Defenders Left?" thread started here.