Justin Fields in the pocket & other thoughts

[Havoc]

.
Besides,Lamar hasn't won anything of significance himself. I think he's overrated. Lamar can't carry Mahomes' jock, but he puts up great regular season fantasy football numbers so he gets hyped.

If we had drafted Lamar Jackson - and we absolutely could have drafted him, had our conservative front office not already decided to overreach on a position of need - Tomlin might have another ring. It was without a doubt the biggest miss of the Kevin Colbert era. Anyone arguing anything otherwise is absolutely out of their mind.

What makes you think Jackson would have been any more successful with the Steelers than he has been with the Ravens? Sure, he would have been a better pick than Terrell Edmunds, and he's a hell of a lot better than what the Steelers have at QB now, but he's not the best QB in the league and he wouldn't have gotten Tomlin over the hump.

Face it- if Tomlin couldn't win with the offenses of 2014-2018, he's not going to win with any offense. Maybe a rookie contract Mahomes could have gotten Tomlin over the hump in 2020, but I doubt it. We're cursed with a Marv Lewis / Jeff Fisher tier coach for life who the media fellates like he's a combo of Lombardi, Noll, Walsh, and Gibbs.

I also doubt that Lamar ever wins a Super Bowl at this point, and he might not even ever make one. The time on his athletic peak is limited. But that's a different conversation...

Lamar would have fit right in here. Can't get it done in the PS. Built for the RS (like Tomlin).

Lamar's defenses past 5 years have given up 18.9 ppg. Steelers have given up 20.3 ppg.

[W&M_Steeler]

If we had drafted Lamar Jackson - and we absolutely could have drafted him, had our conservative front office not already decided to overreach on a position of need - Tomlin might have another ring. It was without a doubt the biggest miss of the Kevin Colbert era. Anyone arguing anything otherwise is absolutely out of their mind.

What makes you think Jackson would have been any more successful with the Steelers than he has been with the Ravens? Sure, he would have been a better pick than Terrell Edmunds, and he's a hell of a lot better than what the Steelers have at QB now, but he's not the best QB in the league and he wouldn't have gotten Tomlin over the hump.

Face it- if Tomlin couldn't win with the offenses of 2014-2018, he's not going to win with any offense. Maybe a rookie contract Mahomes could have gotten Tomlin over the hump in 2020, but I doubt it. We're cursed with a Marv Lewis / Jeff Fisher tier coach for life who the media fellates like he's a combo of Lombardi, Noll, Walsh, and Gibbs.

I also doubt that Lamar ever wins a Super Bowl at this point, and he might not even ever make one. The time on his athletic peak is limited. But that's a different conversation...

Lamar would have fit right in here. Can't get it done in the PS. Built for the RS (like Tomlin).

Lamar's defenses past 5 years have given up 18.9 ppg. Steelers have given up 20.3 ppg.

I think it's criminal that Lamar has 2 MVPs and Ben never even got an All Pro vote. Ben had tougher competition and the media hated him, so there's that. Matt Ryan was an MVP but Ben wasn't? Ok...

The quality of QB has declined since Ben's peak- Brady, P. Manning, Rogers, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rivers, and Eli Manning were all at their peak at the same time- and I guess Mahomes can't win the MVP every year, so there's room for Fantasy League champion Lamar Jackson to win a few MVPs. I think Lamar's very good, but to me he's not an all-time great like two MVPs would suggest.

[tbsteel]

Ben never had the passing TD numbers to really threaten it. And he just wasn't consistent enough.

Microcosm of Ben's career: in 2014 he has the back-to-back 6 TD games against the Colts and Ravens. The Colts game is maybe the best game by a QB I've ever seen.

So after those two games, we play the 1-8 Jets who had a shaky at best pass D and had given up 24 or more points in their last 8 games. We go in as a huge favorite and get our asses beat, with Ben having 2 bad picks and 0 TDs until a garbage time heave to Martavis when we were down 20-6 with a little over a minute left in the game. He had 12 TDs in two games that year, and in the other 14 games only had 20 TDs. That was probably the best/prime of Ben's passing career and he still didn't have the merits to be an All Pro.

[Havoc]

Ben never had the passing TD numbers to really threaten it. And he just wasn't consistent enough.

Microcosm of Ben's career: in 2014 he has the back-to-back 6 TD games against the Colts and Ravens. The Colts game is maybe the best game by a QB I've ever seen.

So after those two games, we play the 1-8 Jets who had a shaky at best pass D and had given up 24 or more points in their last 8 games. We go in as a huge favorite and get our asses beat, with Ben having 2 bad picks and 0 TDs until a garbage time heave to Martavis when we were down 20-6 with a little over a minute left in the game. He had 12 TDs in two games that year, and in the other 14 games only had 20 TDs. That was probably the best/prime of Ben's passing career and he still didn't have the merits to be an All Pro.

I have Bradshaw ranked ahead of Ben.

We are still stuck at 4 Lombardis without Ben though.

Also, our HC screwed our chances in 2018, something Bradshaw didn't have to overcome.

[Steeldrama]

I have Bradshaw ranked ahead of Ben.

As do I and it’s not particularly close

[W&M_Steeler]

Ben never had the passing TD numbers to really threaten it. And he just wasn't consistent enough.

Microcosm of Ben's career: in 2014 he has the back-to-back 6 TD games against the Colts and Ravens. The Colts game is maybe the best game by a QB I've ever seen.

So after those two games, we play the 1-8 Jets who had a shaky at best pass D and had given up 24 or more points in their last 8 games. We go in as a huge favorite and get our asses beat, with Ben having 2 bad picks and 0 TDs until a garbage time heave to Martavis when we were down 20-6 with a little over a minute left in the game. He had 12 TDs in two games that year, and in the other 14 games only had 20 TDs. That was probably the best/prime of Ben's passing career and he still didn't have the merits to be an All Pro.

I disagree that Ben didn't have the merits to be an All Pro. His 2014 year would have been an All Pro year, or at least garnered All Pro and MVP votes, had it happened in a year that didn't also feature Aaron Rogers at the peak of his career. Put young or mid-career Ben in the current league and he's arguably the best in the league, or at least 2nd best behind Mahomes. In a vacuum, Ben was certainly MVP and All Pro caliber. Cam Newton and Matt Ryan won MVPs, and I'd take prime Ben over either of those two. Ben's bad personal reputation also didn't help in these popularity contests.

I agree that Ben's biggest flaw was inconsistency, though. I think he would have benefitted from a detail-oriented offensive coach who challenged him. Tomlin has historically not taken bad teams seriously, and it shows in some of those awful losses. For example, how much blame does Ben get for the 2014 loss at home against ultimately 2-14 Tampa (a loss that ended up being crucial for seeding) versus Tomlin? The whole team played like crap. Ben wasn't able to overcome that miasma. Ben's apparent lack of intrinsic motivation when compared to people like Tom Brady is what keeps Ben from being in the top tier all time greats, but he's still a clear Hall of Famer. We'll never know, but I think that if Ben would have had Andy Reid instead of Tomlin for the majority of his career, Ben would have had much better overall career stats and a few more rings. Ben had the capability to be a top 5-10 all time QB, and those two games you mention are good examples of that. But Tomlin doesn't care about and apparently doesn't understand offense, and Ben seems to have a personal tendency towards complacency.

[W&M_Steeler]

I have Bradshaw ranked ahead of Ben.

As do I and it’s not particularly close

In my mind they're roughly equivalent, but I wasn't alive during the 70s glory days to see Bradshaw in action live. Bradshaw had Noll while Ben had Tomlin, though, so it makes it hard to compare.

[anpsteel]

I have Bradshaw ranked ahead of Ben.

As do I and it’s not particularly close

I think, if you were to put Terry in todays NFL he’d be torching defenses weekly.

He’d still throw a bad pick here and there, but he wouldn’t play down to his opponent the way Ben regularly did

Was he better than Ben? That’s tough to say.

I think he’d be more consistent.

I think he’d be better at reading defenses and changing out of bad play calls.

He’d be better at throwing to the middle of the field.


And while Terry was stellar at crunch time, Ben is all world captain comeback

You could argue that Terry wouldn’t need to make those comebacks, because he wouldn’t have shit the bed in the first 3 quarters

I’ve talked myself into it

Terry was better lol

[W&M_Steeler]

I have Bradshaw ranked ahead of Ben.

As do I and it’s not particularly close

I think, if you were to put Terry in todays NFL he’d be torching defenses weekly.

He’d still throw a bad pick here and there, but he wouldn’t play down to his opponent the way Ben regularly did

Was he better than Ben? That’s tough to say.

I think he’d be more consistent.

I think he’d be better at reading defenses and changing out of bad play calls.

He’d be better at throwing to the middle of the field.


And while Terry was stellar at crunch time, Ben is all world captain comeback

You could argue that Terry wouldn’t need to make those comebacks, because he wouldn’t have shit the bed in the first 3 quarters

I’ve talked myself into it

Terry was better lol

Terry also had 2 Hof Receivers, a HoF RB, a HoF Center, a top 3 all time NFL Head Coach, and the best defense of all time. Ben certainly had talent around him too in the 2010s, but not quite as great as what Terry had. I bet Ben would have been awesome on the 1970s teams, and I doubt Terry would have overcome Tomlin and dragged the 2010s teams to Super Bowls. I'm going to stick with my neutrality on the question of Terry vs. Ben.

[anpsteel]

As do I and it’s not particularly close

I think, if you were to put Terry in todays NFL he’d be torching defenses weekly.

He’d still throw a bad pick here and there, but he wouldn’t play down to his opponent the way Ben regularly did

Was he better than Ben? That’s tough to say.

I think he’d be more consistent.

I think he’d be better at reading defenses and changing out of bad play calls.

He’d be better at throwing to the middle of the field.


And while Terry was stellar at crunch time, Ben is all world captain comeback

You could argue that Terry wouldn’t need to make those comebacks, because he wouldn’t have shit the bed in the first 3 quarters

I’ve talked myself into it

Terry was better lol

Terry also had 2 Hof Receivers, a HoF RB, a HoF Center, a top 3 all time NFL Head Coach, and the best defense of all time. Ben certainly had talent around him too in the 2010s, but not quite as great as what Terry had. I bet Ben would have been awesome on the 1970s teams, and I doubt Terry would have overcome Tomlin and dragged the 2010s teams to Super Bowls. I'm going to stick with my neutrality on the question of Terry vs. Ben.

The killer Bs era team is quite possibly equal to the 70s level of talent

That OLine, across the board was possibly just as good

LeVeon Bell had more talent than any other Steelers RB. I say this, with Franco having been my favorite player growing up.

AB is probably better than Swann.

Heath was better than Grossman or Cunningham

Stallworth was better than Bryant

The HC argument is a non-starter

[W&M_Steeler]

I think, if you were to put Terry in todays NFL he’d be torching defenses weekly.

He’d still throw a bad pick here and there, but he wouldn’t play down to his opponent the way Ben regularly did

Was he better than Ben? That’s tough to say.

I think he’d be more consistent.

I think he’d be better at reading defenses and changing out of bad play calls.

He’d be better at throwing to the middle of the field.


And while Terry was stellar at crunch time, Ben is all world captain comeback

You could argue that Terry wouldn’t need to make those comebacks, because he wouldn’t have shit the bed in the first 3 quarters

I’ve talked myself into it

Terry was better lol

Terry also had 2 Hof Receivers, a HoF RB, a HoF Center, a top 3 all time NFL Head Coach, and the best defense of all time. Ben certainly had talent around him too in the 2010s, but not quite as great as what Terry had. I bet Ben would have been awesome on the 1970s teams, and I doubt Terry would have overcome Tomlin and dragged the 2010s teams to Super Bowls. I'm going to stick with my neutrality on the question of Terry vs. Ben.

The killer Bs era team is quite possibly equal to the 70s level of talent

That OLine, across the board was possibly just as good

LeVeon Bell had more talent than any other Steelers RB. I say this, with Franco having been my favorite player growing up.

AB is probably better than Swann.

Heath was better than Grossman or Cunningham

Stallworth was better than Bryant

The HC argument is a non-starter

I agree that the offense from 2014-2018 was very talented (though Heath was at the very end of his career in 2014-15). Those teams should have done more, particularly as the defense improved and rebuilt during that time.

I don't see how head coach is a non-starter. Tomlin simply takes some teams lightly and overlooks them, and that filters down to the players. 2014 is a great example, with bizarre and inexcusable losses to 2-14 Tampa (at home in Pittsburgh in September!) and the 4-12 Jets. How many games like that did Noll lose? Losing to those teams cost the Steelers a 1 seed and bye week. Tomlin sets teams up to fail in the long run. Could Bradshaw have overcome that type of mentality from his head coach? Could Tom Brady? I don't know, but it's a factor that has to be considered when discussing why Ben and the 2010s Steelers didn't accomplish more.

[jewelsongs]

Tomlin's actually got one of the best winning percentages against sub-.500 teams of any NFL head coach this century and, he's within decimal-point range of both former coaches in this category:
• Chuck Noll: .725 (137-52)

• Tomlin: .724 (104-39-2)

• Bill Cowher: .723 (102-39)

Ben was a very good QB. He had the misfortune of coming along when Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes came along.

[W&M_Steeler]

Tomlin's actually got one of the best winning percentages against sub-.500 teams of any NFL head coach this century and, he's within decimal-point range of both former coaches in this category:
• Chuck Noll: .725 (137-52)

• Tomlin: .724 (104-39-2)

• Bill Cowher: .723 (102-39)

Ben was a very good QB. He had the misfortune of coming along when Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes came along.

That stat needs to be further examined, as it doesn't really address the point. Tomlin does not overlook division opponents, so he has a good record against mediocre / bad Browns and Bengals teams, which improves his record against sub .500 teams. And teams that are ok when the Steelers play them but end up finishing 8-9 / 7-9 aren't really the issue either, so "sub-.500" is too broad.

The real problem is that Tomlin's teams regularly lose to horrible teams that aren't in the division. Tomlin teams just don't seem to take those games seriously. The 2014 games against Tampa and the NYJ are good examples. I'd love to see a comparison between Tomlin and other coaches with their records coaching winning teams against out of division teams that finish with 5 or fewer wins in a season (not sure how to come up with one- it would take a lot of work- maybe a Pittsburgh sports journalist should take the time and do it). Those are Tomlin trap specialties. Was anyone really surprised by the Pats and Cardinals games last year?

[.Kodiak]

Ben was a very good QB. He had the misfortune of coming along when Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes came along.

He lost what, two playoff games to those guys in his career?

Tomlin excels at mediocrity. Eventually even you will come around to realize this.

[Jobu]

The killer Bs era team is quite possibly equal to the 70s level of talent

No!

[zeke5123]

I have Bradshaw ranked ahead of Ben.

As do I and it’s not particularly close

I think, if you were to put Terry in todays NFL he’d be torching defenses weekly.

He’d still throw a bad pick here and there, but he wouldn’t play down to his opponent the way Ben regularly did

Was he better than Ben? That’s tough to say.

I think he’d be more consistent.

I think he’d be better at reading defenses and changing out of bad play calls.

He’d be better at throwing to the middle of the field.


And while Terry was stellar at crunch time, Ben is all world captain comeback

You could argue that Terry wouldn’t need to make those comebacks, because he wouldn’t have shit the bed in the first 3 quarters

I’ve talked myself into it

Terry was better lol

Ben hit the middle of the field a lot under Cowher. Ben hit the middle of the field in 2min warning drives. Ben hit the middle of the field when he said “fuck if—I’ll call the offense like an old school QB.”

But Tomlin doesn’t like the “risk” and clearly got pissy that Ben was “showing up” the coaches. Tomlin would rather save face and lose compared to win and take humble pie.

[jewelsongs]

Ben was a very good QB. He had the misfortune of coming along when Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes came along.

He lost what, two playoff games to those guys in his career?

Tomlin excels at mediocrity. Eventually even you will come around to realize this.

Twice to Brady, once to Manning and once to Mahomes. Also once to David Garrard, Aaron Rodgers, Tim Tebow, Joe Flacco, Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. I am certain all of those losses are on Tomlin and not Ben. Eventually even you will come around to realize this isn't true.

[anpsteel]

Terry also had 2 Hof Receivers, a HoF RB, a HoF Center, a top 3 all time NFL Head Coach, and the best defense of all time. Ben certainly had talent around him too in the 2010s, but not quite as great as what Terry had. I bet Ben would have been awesome on the 1970s teams, and I doubt Terry would have overcome Tomlin and dragged the 2010s teams to Super Bowls. I'm going to stick with my neutrality on the question of Terry vs. Ben.

The killer Bs era team is quite possibly equal to the 70s level of talent

That OLine, across the board was possibly just as good

LeVeon Bell had more talent than any other Steelers RB. I say this, with Franco having been my favorite player growing up.

AB is probably better than Swann.

Heath was better than Grossman or Cunningham

Stallworth was better than Bryant

The HC argument is a non-starter

I agree that the offense from 2014-2018 was very talented (though Heath was at the very end of his career in 2014-15). Those teams should have done more, particularly as the defense improved and rebuilt during that time.

I don't see how head coach is a non-starter. Tomlin simply takes some teams lightly and overlooks them, and that filters down to the players. 2014 is a great example, with bizarre and inexcusable losses to 2-14 Tampa (at home in Pittsburgh in September!) and the 4-12 Jets. How many games like that did Noll lose? Losing to those teams cost the Steelers a 1 seed and bye week. Tomlin sets teams up to fail in the long run. Could Bradshaw have overcome that type of mentality from his head coach? Could Tom Brady? I don't know, but it's a factor that has to be considered when discussing why Ben and the 2010s Steelers didn't accomplish more.

Chuck Noll was vastly superior to Tomlin


I don’t think anyone can overcome Tomlin’s ineptitude, but to be clear, a fair amount of the teams propensity to lose to inferior opponents was due to Ben’s lackadaisical performance

[W&M_Steeler]

Ben was a very good QB. He had the misfortune of coming along when Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes came along.

He lost what, two playoff games to those guys in his career?

Tomlin excels at mediocrity. Eventually even you will come around to realize this.

Twice to Brady, once to Manning and once to Mahomes. Also once to David Garrard, Aaron Rodgers, Tim Tebow, Joe Flacco, Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. I am certain all of those losses are on Tomlin and not Ben. Eventually even you will come around to realize this isn't true.

Of those losses, the only ones I'd say were primarily due to Ben having a bad game was the Browns loss in 2020 and maybe the Jags loss in 2007.

Both Tomlin and Ben started poorly in Super Bowl XLV, though I don't think anyone was beating Aaron Rogers that day.

Some of those losses I won't really blame either of them- the Broncos loss in 2015, for example, where the injury-riddled Steelers went into Denver and were in a position to take a late 4th quarter lead when Fitz Toussaint fumbled. The 2021 Steelers with end of the road Ben needed a miracle to get into the playoffs, had no business being there, and were totally outmatched by the Chiefs.

The others? Ben and the offense scored 42 points in the 2017 loss to the Jags. That wasn't enough for Mr. Defensive Genius Mike Tomlin and his defense to stop Blake Bortles in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers should have had a bye week in 2014, but instead were forced to play the Ravens Wild Card weekend because the Steelers lost to the 2-14 Bucs and 4-12 Jets. On top of that, the Steelers braintrust cut Legarrette Blount mid-way through the season without signing a back-up RB. When Bell got injured week 17, it left the Steelers with having to panic sign and start Ben Tate at RB. The Steelers had no running game as a result, so the Ravens were able to pin their ears back and ended up giving Ben a concussion mid-game. Hard to blame that loss on Ben.

[W&M_Steeler]

The killer Bs era team is quite possibly equal to the 70s level of talent

That OLine, across the board was possibly just as good

LeVeon Bell had more talent than any other Steelers RB. I say this, with Franco having been my favorite player growing up.

AB is probably better than Swann.

Heath was better than Grossman or Cunningham

Stallworth was better than Bryant

The HC argument is a non-starter

I agree that the offense from 2014-2018 was very talented (though Heath was at the very end of his career in 2014-15). Those teams should have done more, particularly as the defense improved and rebuilt during that time.

I don't see how head coach is a non-starter. Tomlin simply takes some teams lightly and overlooks them, and that filters down to the players. 2014 is a great example, with bizarre and inexcusable losses to 2-14 Tampa (at home in Pittsburgh in September!) and the 4-12 Jets. How many games like that did Noll lose? Losing to those teams cost the Steelers a 1 seed and bye week. Tomlin sets teams up to fail in the long run. Could Bradshaw have overcome that type of mentality from his head coach? Could Tom Brady? I don't know, but it's a factor that has to be considered when discussing why Ben and the 2010s Steelers didn't accomplish more.

Chuck Noll was vastly superior to Tomlin


I don’t think anyone can overcome Tomlin’s ineptitude, but to be clear, a fair amount of the teams propensity to lose to inferior opponents was due to Ben’s lackadaisical performance

Ben has to take some of the blame for those losses, as I fault him for not rising above the bullshit and taking the games seriously even if the coaches weren't. But those underperformances are still happening. The Steelers tied an 0-8 (ultimately 3 win) Detroit team in 2021 when Ben was out with COVID. We all remember the back-to-back Cards and Pats losses last season. Can't blame those on Ben.

[jewelsongs]

He lost what, two playoff games to those guys in his career?

Tomlin excels at mediocrity. Eventually even you will come around to realize this.

Twice to Brady, once to Manning and once to Mahomes. Also once to David Garrard, Aaron Rodgers, Tim Tebow, Joe Flacco, Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. I am certain all of those losses are on Tomlin and not Ben. Eventually even you will come around to realize this isn't true.

Of those losses, the only ones I'd say were primarily due to Ben having a bad game was the Browns loss in 2020 and maybe the Jags loss in 2007.

Both Tomlin and Ben started poorly in Super Bowl XLV, though I don't think anyone was beating Aaron Rogers that day.

Some of those losses I won't really blame either of them- the Broncos loss in 2015, for example, where the injury-riddled Steelers went into Denver and were in a position to take a late 4th quarter lead when Fitz Toussaint fumbled. The 2021 Steelers with end of the road Ben needed a miracle to get into the playoffs, had no business being there, and were totally outmatched by the Chiefs.

The others? Ben and the offense scored 42 points in the 2017 loss to the Jags. That wasn't enough for Mr. Defensive Genius Mike Tomlin and his defense to stop Blake Bortles in Pittsburgh.

The Steelers should have had a bye week in 2014, but instead were forced to play the Ravens Wild Card weekend because the Steelers lost to the 2-14 Bucs and 4-12 Jets. On top of that, the Steelers braintrust cut Legarrette Blount mid-way through the season without signing a back-up RB. When Bell got injured week 17, it left the Steelers with having to panic sign and start Ben Tate at RB. The Steelers had no running game as a result, so the Ravens were able to pin their ears back and ended up giving Ben a concussion mid-game. Hard to blame that loss on Ben.

I don't blame Ben directly for any of the losses. Football is a team sport. As you so rightly pointed out, the defense blew a couple of those games. As did the offense with fumbles, interceptions, etc. We are so spoiled in Pittsburgh that we think we should win the super bowl every year. When Ben was at his peak, we won 2, lost one, and unfortunately ran into Tom Brady, who dominated with the cheatriots. I am looking forward to the day Tomlin decides to retire, so every other thread is not dominated by comments about him.

[langer]

Bo Nix looks good. Crisp and in control.

[.Kodiak]

I am looking forward to the day Tomlin decides to retire, so every other thread is not dominated by comments about him.

And maybe start winning playoff games again.

[jewelsongs]

I am looking forward to the day Tomlin decides to retire, so every other thread is not dominated by comments about him.

And maybe start winning playoff games again.

Hopefully we don't have to wait that long.

[Orangesteel]

I firmly believe Tomlin will never win another playoff game in his career, with the Steelers or with another team.

[bradshaw2ben]

Ben was a very good QB. He had the misfortune of coming along when Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Patrick Mahomes came along.

He lost what, two playoff games to those guys in his career?

Tomlin excels at mediocrity. Eventually even you will come around to realize this.

Twice to Brady, once to Manning and once to Mahomes. Also once to David Garrard, Aaron Rodgers, Tim Tebow, Joe Flacco, Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. I am certain all of those losses are on Tomlin and not Ben. Eventually even you will come around to realize this isn't true.

Yeah Ben should’ve played some better defense and not called so many conservative offensive plays early in that last stretch of consecutive playoff losses. He’s a bum.

[jewelsongs]

He lost what, two playoff games to those guys in his career?

Tomlin excels at mediocrity. Eventually even you will come around to realize this.

Twice to Brady, once to Manning and once to Mahomes. Also once to David Garrard, Aaron Rodgers, Tim Tebow, Joe Flacco, Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. I am certain all of those losses are on Tomlin and not Ben. Eventually even you will come around to realize this isn't true.

Yeah Ben should’ve played some better defense and not called so many conservative offensive plays early in that last stretch of consecutive playoff losses. He’s a bum.

I didn't Blame Ben. I am also not blaming Tomlin.

[gojira5150]

Twice to Brady, once to Manning and once to Mahomes. Also once to David Garrard, Aaron Rodgers, Tim Tebow, Joe Flacco, Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. I am certain all of those losses are on Tomlin and not Ben. Eventually even you will come around to realize this isn't true.

Yeah Ben should’ve played some better defense and not called so many conservative offensive plays early in that last stretch of consecutive playoff losses. He’s a bum.

I didn't Blame Ben. I am also not blaming Tomlin.

Really!? This is all on Cool Breeze. He's a terrible playoff coach. I always say he should have been showed the door after LOSING to Blake EFFING Bortles. That loss was atrocious. That team could've went to the SB.

[zeke5123]

Twice to Brady, once to Manning and once to Mahomes. Also once to David Garrard, Aaron Rodgers, Tim Tebow, Joe Flacco, Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. I am certain all of those losses are on Tomlin and not Ben. Eventually even you will come around to realize this isn't true.

Yeah Ben should’ve played some better defense and not called so many conservative offensive plays early in that last stretch of consecutive playoff losses. He’s a bum.

I didn't Blame Ben. I am also not blaming Tomlin.

Who are you blaming? I get that in theory "everyone" is responsible, but we can do an 80/20 rule here.

[langer]

Yeah Ben should’ve played some better defense and not called so many conservative offensive plays early in that last stretch of consecutive playoff losses. He’s a bum.

I didn't Blame Ben. I am also not blaming Tomlin.

Really!? This is all on Cool Breeze. He's a terrible playoff coach. I always say he should have been showed the door after LOSING to Blake EFFING Bortles. That loss was atrocious. That team could've went to the SB.

He looked so panicked and not Cool Shades that day. Looked like he was gonna have a heart attack.