Ingram traded to the Chiefs

[punum123]

I’m not disagreeing in terms of the principle of getting rid of malcontents.

Wouldn’t want them either.

My main point is that why is it that this team, under this (players) coach keeps ending up with malcontents?

I think we need to look a little deeper at these malcontents and their stories.

I loathe Tomlin but you almost have to give him credit for containing AB's ignorance, stupidity and massive ego for as long as he did. Ryan Clark warned what would happen if AB got paid just a few years into his career. AB remained an unbelievable player for a long time in Pittsburgh before he freaked out. Once he left, the dude went absolutely insane for awhile. Brown now understands he cannot be a distraction again or his NFL career is over.

Then you have Bell. The guy wanted to be paid....wait for it....as some kind of hybrid WR/RB. A completely new position, basically. Thought he was going to be paid more money than any non-QB in NFL history. Once it was clear that wasn't going to happen in Pittsburgh, his pride wouldn't let Bell return, even if the Steelers made him the best offer of any team. He, like Brown, was a FUCKING IMBECILE.

Ingram is pretty easy. He's an old player on his last legs. Once an All Pro player, he's on fumes now. Highsmith had a groin issue and once he got healthy, Butler and Tomlin wanted him to get the vast majority of the snaps. Watt was rarely going to come off the field. Ingram looked like he had recaptured the fountain of youth early on, then fell off in a major way. Got very little pressure when he got on the field. Wasn't winning his match ups. Best thing for Ingram to do was shut the fuck up and work harder. Instead he bitched and said he wanted out of Pittsburgh. We granted this player who is a shell of his former shelf and is definitely in his final NFL season, his wish.

It's as simple as that, really.

Nice executive summary...
Sometimes you just have to rip the bandaid off...you get jaded after dealing with assholes like AB and Lev....he became a cancer rather quickly...fuck Ingram. Moving on...

[955876]

Someone explain to me the benefit of keeping a guy that doesn’t want to play here.

Waiting for someone to explain to me why players keep quitting on this HC…

[Pabst]

Someone explain to me the benefit of keeping a guy that doesn’t want to play here.

Waiting for someone to explain to me why players keep quitting on this HC…

Who all does this apply to?

[955876]

Someone explain to me the benefit of keeping a guy that doesn’t want to play here.

Waiting for someone to explain to me why players keep quitting on this HC…

Who all does this apply to?

AB
Blount
Ingram
Harrison

All pouted their way off the team while under contract.

But hey, if you think those running the show are doing a good job then have at it.

I see continual mismanagement of the roster off the field and bad coaching on the field.

Jibbs need to go.

[yygy]

Blueprint for success this season was bills game. Aggressive D no major holes, big play, an O that can cobble together a few scores and not fuck it up too badly.

They don’t have the guys on the back end really to stand up. Packers outclassed this D and score could’ve been worse. Only chance is pressure up front. With Tuitt already lost I’d hope they’d find a way to work an extra edge rusher into packages etc over the course of 60 minutes. Doesn’t seem that impossible a task.

It’s only an aging player. True. But it’s the mindset that concerns me.

2000s Steelers are elite top 5 team. 2010s top 10. 2020s trend looks to me like bottom 15. Yes lots of variables. But tomlin keeps missing on half of these top 5 seems out of reach

[955876]

With Tuitt already lost I’d hope they’d find a way to work an extra edge rusher into packages etc over the course of 60 minutes. Doesn’t seem that impossible a task.

It’s only an aging player. True. But it’s the mindset that concerns me.

This is where I am at.

And we can likely count Tuitt as another quitter.

What the fuck is his major malfunction at this point?

Still hurt? The injury he incurred doing what exactly? If it was playing football (last year) then why was his surgery done at the start of camp this year?

[Ice]

Tuitt's issues are likely as much emotional as they are physical, at this point, and I'm not going to drag somebody's grieving process into a fire Tomlin discussion.

[Pabst]

Waiting for someone to explain to me why players keep quitting on this HC…

Who all does this apply to?

AB
Blount
Ingram
Harrison

All pouted their way off the team while under contract.

But hey, if you think those running the show are doing a good job then have at it.

I see continual mismanagement of the roster off the field and bad coaching on the field.

Jibbs need to go.

4 players in 15 years isn't exactly cause for alarm. One of those players you listed above got booted off of 2 other teams that same year and was then out of football for 18 months.

There's a ton of room between thinking he's doing a good job and grinding an ax.

[Stosh-67]

Someone explain to me the benefit of keeping a guy that doesn’t want to play here.

Waiting for someone to explain to me why players keep quitting on this HC…

This Ingram debate on play time, team player, effectiveness, malcontent, etc............ is secondary to the real root of the problem.

Tomlin needs to understand that an NFL season is long and grueling.
He has had 15 years to figure it out.
The season is now longer, 17 games.
18-21 games if you get to the final game of the season.

Hence, every single spot on a 53 man roster needs to be utilized.
Every last spot of the 53 man roster. Every last spot of the 10 man practice squad. Every last player that will be added to a team as player after player falls, gets IR'd, or is physically ruled out for the rest of the year.

The head coach needs to keep every single player ready and focused.
By staying engaged, ready and physically fit to help the team.
Being ready to step in during a game; for a play, for a series, for the rest of the game.
Having enough opportunities that he has the will.......
By putting players in spots to be successful.... and
Being ready to step in and start the rest of the season.

After 15 years, Tomlin will still run the wheels off of a #1 running back. Thats a fact, there is a history. This philosophy has killed us down the strech, in the playoffs. Finished seasons.

Does anyone think Najee Harris can continue to take the pounding that he is being burdened with?
Last 3 games.....23 carries, 24, 26. While he is also 2nd on the team in catches and targets.

He is already on pace to carry the ball over 300 times. Lev Bell only had one season of 300+ carries with the Steelers and then the Jets.

I anticipate Harris carrying the rock in this system 23-26 times a game going forward. If thats the case, and he averages 24 carries a game. he will be close to 350 carries. He is also on pace to catch 89 passes on 119 targets. Lev Bell, for all his success out of the backfield had career highs of 85 catches and 106 targets in 2017.

Harris is taking 89% of the offensive snaps.

Derrick Henry, the workhorse - mid 70% Only one game over 80%
Ez Elliot - 72% - First game of the season 83%......has not been over 75% in the last 6 games
Kamara - 81% -
Dalvin Cook - 74-77%
Chubb - not one game over 60%
Jonathan Taylor - only one game over 70% - the last game that went OT.
Mixon - only one game over 80%
Aaron Jones - only 2 games over 70 % - Single game high of 73%

When we ALL know that Tomlin and the Steelers NEED to get other RB's involved, snaps, carries, etc.............That this team needed to have that plan ready months ago.

The fact is, and knowing everything laid out above..............Tomlin is still salivating over the thought of some 30+ carry games from Harris in the second half of the season, as Fall football gets colder and the running game becomes more important when the weather turns ugly. We have been down this dirt road in the past.

Najee Harris is looking better each game, But,
Remember what your mother told you.

Its all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

And that is all I have to say about that.

[K_C_]

Waiting for someone to explain to me why players keep quitting on this HC…

Who all does this apply to?

AB
Blount
Ingram
Harrison

All pouted their way off the team while under contract.

But hey, if you think those running the show are doing a good job then have at it.

I see continual mismanagement of the roster off the field and bad coaching on the field.

Jibbs need to go.

You work for some financial firm, correct?

Okay....let's say one of your employees comes to you and says; "I'm not happy here and I want to leave". What do you say?

Please don't tell me you'd say to this employee; "Sorry, you signed a contract. Get back to work"....and here's why.

When that employee goes back to his desk still unhappy and even more pissed off, what are you going to say when you see this employee going out to lunch with a few of your best and most reliable employees? You think that guy you are forcing to stay put is saying how great your company is? Nah, he's calling you a piece of shit. He's denigrating you on a daily basis and continuing to point out how shitty your company is. Whenever the slightest thing goes wrong at your firm, this employee you're forcing to remain on the job is still in the ear of your best employees, telling them what a fuck up you are.

...and you know it.

THAT is why you get rid of unhappy employees as fast as is humanly possible. Before they poison others.

[955876]

Tuitt's issues are likely as much emotional as they are physical, at this point, and I'm not going to drag somebody's grieving process into a fire Tomlin discussion.

Oh please. Give me a break.

His brother died in June. It’s November.

He’s been given ample time to grieve the loss of a loved one.

It’s life. We ALL have to deal with the loss of loved ones. Either by nature taking its course or by tragedy.

He’s either taking advantage of the situation OR his injury is just another issue that was mismanaged by this staff.

[955876]

Who all does this apply to?

AB
Blount
Ingram
Harrison

All pouted their way off the team while under contract.

But hey, if you think those running the show are doing a good job then have at it.

I see continual mismanagement of the roster off the field and bad coaching on the field.

Jibbs need to go.

You work for some financial firm, correct?

Okay....let's say one of your employees comes to you and says; "I'm not happy here and I want to leave". What do you say?

Please don't tell me you'd say to this employee; "Sorry, you signed a contract. Get back to work"....and here's why.

When that employee goes back to his desk still unhappy and even more pissed off, what are you going to say when you see this employee going out to lunch with a few of your best and most reliable employees? You think that guy you are forcing to stay put is saying how great your company is? Nah, he's calling you a piece of shit. He's denigrating you on a daily basis and continuing to point out how shitty your company is. Whenever the slightest thing goes wrong at your firm, this employee you're forcing to remain on the job is still in the ear of your best employees, telling them what a fuck up you are.

...and you know it.

THAT is why you get rid of unhappy employees as fast as is humanly possible. Before they poison others.

I think you are grossly exaggerating the comparison between the two.

IF Tomlin is a great leader of men how could one player who just signed with the team this past offseason have so much clout that he’d be able to poison the locker room?

Wouldn’t the other players just look at him as a whiney piece of shit?

Hey look, Ingram is mad so I’m going to be mad and say fuck this team too?

Really?

Your statement (if true) is really just more of an indictment against Tomlin that he has that little influence over his team that an outsider like Ingram can come in and poison the group.

[K_C_]

AB
Blount
Ingram
Harrison

All pouted their way off the team while under contract.

But hey, if you think those running the show are doing a good job then have at it.

I see continual mismanagement of the roster off the field and bad coaching on the field.

Jibbs need to go.

You work for some financial firm, correct?

Okay....let's say one of your employees comes to you and says; "I'm not happy here and I want to leave". What do you say?

Please don't tell me you'd say to this employee; "Sorry, you signed a contract. Get back to work"....and here's why.

When that employee goes back to his desk still unhappy and even more pissed off, what are you going to say when you see this employee going out to lunch with a few of your best and most reliable employees? You think that guy you are forcing to stay put is saying how great your company is? Nah, he's calling you a piece of shit. He's denigrating you on a daily basis and continuing to point out how shitty your company is. Whenever the slightest thing goes wrong at your firm, this employee you're forcing to remain on the job is still in the ear of your best employees, telling them what a fuck up you are.

...and you know it.

THAT is why you get rid of unhappy employees as fast as is humanly possible. Before they poison others.

I think you are grossly exaggerating the comparison between the two.

IF Tomlin is a great leader of men how could one player who just signed with the team this past offseason have so much clout that he’d be able to poison the locker room?

Wouldn’t the other players just look at him as a whiney piece of shit?

Hey look, Ingram is mad so I’m going to be mad and say fuck this team too?

Really?

Your statement (if true) is really just more of an indictment against Tomlin that he has that little influence over his team that an outsider like Ingram can come in and poison the group.

Ingram is a respected veteran.

A former All Pro player.

You seriously don't think what he would have to say carries any clout?

Seriously?

[955876]

And you keep missing my larger point KC.

I’m not saying you dont want to move someone if it is really that bad.

I’m saying why is it guys keep wanting to get moved?

[K_C_]

And you keep missing my larger point KC.

I’m not saying you dont want to move someone.

I’m saying why is it guys keep wanting to get moved?

That's been explained to you over and over.

Ingram wasn't happy with his role.

He wanted to be more than depth.

The Steelers want Highsmith, a young player with big upside, to get the vast majority of the snaps.

Ingram wanted a larger role. The Steelers wouldn't give it to him.

[K_C_]

This is very likely Ingram's final NFL season.

I believe he's said so himself.

He wants to play a lot more than he is presently.

That wasn't going to happen in Pittsburgh.

[Pabst]

And this isn't unique to Tomlin in any way. New England just cut Stephon Gilmore a few weeks ago. Billy B and Tom Brady had a falling out which led Tom to sign in Tampa.

Baltimore dropped Earl Thomas last year after he started fights in practice.

The Rams just dropped DeSean Jackson.

OBJ is demanding a trade (again) up in Cleveland.


I keep saying this - there are loads of reasons to criticize Tomlin. That doesn't mean every goddamn thing is his fault, and it doesn't mean that every decision he makes is wrong.

[955876]

And you keep missing my larger point KC.

I’m not saying you dont want to move someone.

I’m saying why is it guys keep wanting to get moved?

That's been explained to you over and over.

Ingram wasn't happy with his role.

He wanted to be more than depth.

The Steelers want Highsmith, a young player with big upside, to get the vast majority of the snaps.

Ingram wanted a larger role. The Steelers wouldn't give it to him.

Ummm you do realize this issue is something that exist in sports right? We going to jettison every player that wants more playing time?

Tomlin going to have to start taking a poll on Mondays as to which players were unhappy with their snap counts on Sunday so the FO can get to work on moving them on to greener pastures?

Give me a break.

[955876]

and it doesn't mean that every decision he makes is wrong

Of course. I’m not saying that.

Well, unless you give him a clock and ask him to count to two. Then you’ll be fucked.

[K_C_]

And you keep missing my larger point KC.

I’m not saying you dont want to move someone.

I’m saying why is it guys keep wanting to get moved?

That's been explained to you over and over.

Ingram wasn't happy with his role.

He wanted to be more than depth.

The Steelers want Highsmith, a young player with big upside, to get the vast majority of the snaps.

Ingram wanted a larger role. The Steelers wouldn't give it to him.

Ummm you do realize this issue is something that exist in sports right? We going to jettison every player that wants more playing time?

Tomlin going to have to start taking a poll on Mondays as to which players were unhappy with their snap counts on Sunday so the FO can get to work on moving them on to greener pastures.

Give me a break.

Well, James Washington has been unhappy with his role.

It was announced he asked for a trade. Tomlin later said Washington didn't ask for a trade but it's been clear to anyone with a working brain that Washington isn't happy.

I'm probably the biggest James Washington fan on this board. Dude has made a bunch of big catches for the Steelers the last 3 years.

This year, unhappy James Washington has been all but completely useless.

Was it a good idea keeping unhappy James Washington on the team?

[COR-TEN]

I keep saying this - there are loads of reasons to criticize Tomlin. That doesn't mean every goddamn thing is his fault, and it doesn't mean that every decision he makes is wrong.

For fear of looking like STD, I'll post some nonsense to justify quoting your comment. Which needs to be quoted. Often.

Blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah blah

[955876]

Was it a good idea keeping unhappy James Washington on the team?

Was it a good idea to give Ray McCloud a bunch of snaps at WR when Juju went down?

So much so they have to come out after the fact and admit they fucked up the WR rotation?

You and others are fixated on the effect. I’m looking at the cause.

Which more often than not lands at the feet of that Jibbin mother fucker Mikey T…

[K_C_]

Was it a good idea keeping unhappy James Washington on the team?

Was it a good idea to give Ray McCloud a bunch of snaps at WR when Juju went down?

So much so they have to come out after the fact and admit they fucked up the WR rotation?

You and others are fixated on the effect. I’m looking at the cause.

Which more often than not lands at the feet of that Jibbin mother fucker Mikey T…

Again....I'm a big James Washington fan but if I didn't know any better, it kinda looks like he's half-assing it to me.

You remember in the past, don't you, when Ben (on more than one occasion) went to bat for Washington? Called for JW to get more snaps.

Ben has been ultra quiet on the James Washington situation this year. Not a peep out of #7. You don't find that curious?

Watching JW this year, does it look to you like he's all in? Like he's the same clutch player he's been in the past?

[955876]

Watching JW this year, does it look to you like he's all in? Like he's the same clutch player he's been in the past?

Given we have this thing called fee agency it seems like the best course of action for a player not happy with their role is to keep working and do whatever they can to capitalize on whatever opportunities they do get.

How does his agent sell him in the off-season after spending the year pouting and half assing it?

That’s going to land him a deal?

What coach wants a player that quits when things don’t go perfectly their way?

So now we can also add JW to list of players that have quit on Tomlin.

Going to be difficult to put together a 53 man roster with all these whiners and babies quitting on this “players coach”

[Roeth2Rudolph]

Jibbs is a worthless piece of shit in every possible way, there's no question about it. Every week is a comedy reel of colossal fuckups either in game out out. Colbert was tasked with cleaning up yet another Tomlin fuckup and luckily was able to get something out of it. I dunno what's up with Washington, but I think our best bet moving forward is gonna be playing 2TE with Muth and Gentry

[K_C_]

Watching JW this year, does it look to you like he's all in? Like he's the same clutch player he's been in the past?

Given we have this thing called fee agency it seems like the best course of action for a player not happy with their role is to keep working and do whatever they can to capitalize on whatever opportunities they do get.

How does his agent sell him in the off-season after spending the year pouting and half assing it?

That’s going to land him a deal?

What coach wants a player that quits when things don’t go perfectly their way?

So now we can also add JW to list of players that have quit on Tomlin.

Going to be difficult to put together a 53 man roster with all these whiners and babies quitting on this “players coach”

You definitely hate Tomlin to the point where you can't even give him credit for doing the right thing.

....and Tomlin is definitely doing the right thing if he doesn't believe James Washington is giving him everything he has.

I mean, this is starting to get silly.

Melvin Ingram is bitching, asking to be traded because of his role. The Steelers honor his request and Tomlin's an asshole for that.

James Washington is surpassed on the depth chart by Ray Ray, very likely because he's moping and not completely dialed in.

Tomlin is also an asshole for not playing a dude who has been virtually invisible this year (and this is coming from the biggest James Washington fan on the board).

Holy fuck.

[955876]

and Tomlin is definitely doing the right thing if he doesn't believe James Washington is giving him everything he has.

I mean, this is starting to get silly.

What’s silly is the number of players not willing to ball out for Jibbs.

Cause/effect.

I’m not saying it’s good to keep malcontents on the team.

I’m saying how this team & roster is managed is leading to malcontents.

Case in point, JuJu goes down and all of a sudden Ray McFly McCloud is a key piece of the offense ?

[Pabst]

What’s silly is the number of players not willing to ball out for Jibbs.

Four. You have named *four* over a period of 15 years. By the standard you've laid out, every NFL coach is a failure. The argument you're making is absurd.

[K_C_]

and Tomlin is definitely doing the right thing if he doesn't believe James Washington is giving him everything he has.

I mean, this is starting to get silly.

What’s silly is the number of players not willing to ball out for Jibbs.

Cause/effect.

I’m not saying it’s good to keep malcontents on the team.

I’m saying how this team & roster is managed is leading to malcontents.

Case in point, JuJu goes down and all of a sudden Ray McFly McCloud is a key piece of the offense ?

Um...I don't think you get it.

Ray Ray sucks, but he's playing ahead of James Washington likely because Washington isn't dialed in on the practice field or on Sundays. You DO NOT FUCKING PLAY guys who aren't giving their all or who aren't dialed in completely mentally and want to be elsewhere.

Ray Ray wants to be a Steeler and is giving more than 100%. I love Washington and I FULLY FUCKING SUPPORT Tomlin playing Ray Ray ahead of Washington if this is the case.....and it sure looks like this is the case.

Like I mentioned, Ben hasn't said one word about James Washington this season when the last 2 years he's been very vocal that Washington deserved more opportunities.

His silence is deafening.

When it comes to making decisions on Sundays, Tomlin is often an idiot but he's been very, very successful when it comes to motivating his players and for the most part they adore him.

The moves he made with both Melvin Ingram and James Washington, at least as of now when it comes to Washington, were 100% spot on.

[955876]

What’s silly is the number of players not willing to ball out for Jibbs.

Four. You have named *four* over a period of 15 years. By the standard you've laid out, every NFL coach is a failure. The argument you're making is absurd.

Tomlin’s postseason record over this past decade is absurd as well. Especially given the talent he had at his disposal.

The Blount situation is a GLARING example.

We had a viable backup. Tomlin doesn’t get him involved to the point the guy walks out.

Come postseason we are pulling guys off the street to start a playoff game

Better roster management might have led to us advancing in the postseason.

Nothing absurd about that.

Unless you are a Pom Pom waving “never had a losing season” cheerleader and feel good bragging about 8-8 with your beer buddies.