Some game thoughts

[Legacy User]

Good post IC

I was frustrated by the turtling in 2 key sequences, but right after that, when we got the ball at our own 6, we finally showed balls and the game was sealed.

I mentioned in the game thread "throw a bomb to AB here" -- knowing that the Bungles would be stacked up expecting the run.

I didn't think we'd do it, since the coaching staff was showing no balls at the time -- But lo and behold, they threw the bomb, not to AB but to Bryant --

Brilliant play call at that time, and kudos to Tom/Haley for calling it.

Perfect play call at the perfect time, and it broke their backs.

Bryant is a force to be reckoned with -- that play/long ball threat will pay off in future weeks as teams must prepare for it.

[lifelongsteel]

Nice post IC. I agree that it was a great game for the coaches. A few quick hitters
- Bell is something else. He's that rare player who's game you just can't explain because there is no else like him. Wow
- I've always wondered why we drafted a G with rare pulling talent and plugged him into the right side where we run a lot of power stuff. DeCastro on the move is sweet music
- Man that initial run left where Spaeth pulled and sealed two guys? Great stuff
- Bryant might run that go better than Wallace. Who here knew that was coming when he motioned left to right?
- McClendon is our best defensive player. We're a different team with him in the lineup.
- Randomly I keyed on Tuitt on the play he knocked out Dalton. He's a talented, talented kid.
- Mitchell made his first play. Fouts got it wrong on the call. He didn't drop an easy int. He knocked the ball away from Green who was going to catch the deflection.
- Our offense, when is sync, is something to behold. The variety of packages and players we can use is really hard to defend.

[Steelafan77]

Those are the results when coaching and execution match and combine for a well coached/played game. I'll take it.

[jeemie]

I am going to give Andy Dalton some kudos on the long TD to Green. He definitely studied some film and knew Mike Mitchell's tendencies.

I just watched an end zone view replay. Just before launching the pass to Green, Dalton eye faked towards Gresham. It was quite well done.

Grudging props to the Ginger Fuck.

[Legacy User]

Good post zeke, I'll rewatch and give an opinion myself. That long TD to AJ Green had to be a blown assignment somewhere. A WR of that caliber doesn't just get free release into what looked like a 2 deep shell.

Yeah. I would need to re watch as well (i was at a bar so first impressions can always be even more off) but that's what I recall.

But yeah. In general, I saw some positives by the D this game. But we really really need better safety play going forward b

I think Zeke's right on the long TD to Green. Looked to me like Ike gave Green a release to the inside a little more easily than he should have and ended up trailing too far behind, but Mitchell seemed to get caught up watching a shallower route and let Green get way behind him.

The Gresham TD looked like Gay and Mitchell both screwed up. Gay looked like he didn't drop deeper to cover Gresham because he was anticipating a RB/TE slipping out into the flat (Nobody did). Mitchell looked like he bit on the play fake and was late getting over to Gresham. Mitchell also looked upset that Gay didn't drop deeper with Gresham.

It seems like a common theme on most of the long completions they've allowed has been the corners playing the routes as though they have safety help and then realizing too late that the safety help isn't there. It's tough to say who's to blame for the miscommunications, but I'm hoping it's something that will start to resolve itself soon now that they've been playing together for nearly a full season.

[jeemie]

It went on last year too with different safeties.

[Legacy User]

I am going to give Andy Dalton some kudos on the long TD to Green. He definitely studied some film and knew Mike Mitchell's tendencies.

I just watched an end zone view replay. Just before launching the pass to Green, Dalton eye faked towards Gresham. It was quite well done.

Grudging props to the Ginger Fuck.

Eyeball the guy crossing in front of Mitchell's face and he'll be drooling over a potential knockout shot so much he'll slip on his saliva when he tries to turn and watch the ball sailing over his head.

[Legacy User]

Then that's probably what happened. Last couple weeks teams targeting tendencies on CB's with double move, this week maybe it was play design targeting Mitchell. No secret they run a ton of 1/4 1/4 1/2. The QB read was probably solely Mike Mitchell whether he bites on crossing route or AJ Green. And for Green to turn his route inside the hash like that splits the 3 deep shell. Probably why Troy was gesturing to pass him off.

If that's the case, its as equally the fault of Mitchell as it is a great job exploiting tendencies of the Steelers. They probably had that play in the arsenal all week waiting for the right moment.

Looked like they started pressing more a bit after that though.

[bradshaw2ben]

it's a pretty damn obvious tendency for Mitchell-- what, is that four times this year the same thing has happened? I'm sure of the Jets, seem to recall a few others that were brought up in the Jets discussion. Ravens? Browns?

[Legacy User]

it's a pretty damn obvious tendency for Mitchell-- what, is that four times this year the same thing has happened? I'm sure of the Jets, seem to recall a few others that were brought up in the Jets discussion. Ravens? Browns?

Seems like they've found a perfect replacement for Ryan Clark.

[Legacy User]

Great Analysis IC and others. Nice to actually read that on this site again.

Curious of your opinion on the rotation of Vince Williams and Sean Spence? I may need to rewatch, but it seems like Williams played on a lot of 3rd downs. I would have expected the speedier Spence to get those snaps. Do you all think this was in due to Williams being a better size match up with safety valve backs or is it maybe Spence is getting caught out of position on passing downs?

[Legacy User]

it's a pretty damn obvious tendency for Mitchell-- what, is that four times this year the same thing has happened? I'm sure of the Jets, seem to recall a few others that were brought up in the Jets discussion. Ravens? Browns?

I want to say bucs as well but I may be misremembering.. that late deep pass to murphy.. wasn't that Mitchell as well??

[R_S]

Good post zeke, I'll rewatch and give an opinion myself. That long TD to AJ Green had to be a blown assignment somewhere. A WR of that caliber doesn't just get free release into what looked like a 2 deep shell.

Who was the second player with deep responsibility?

The corners and Troy were all pressed up to the WRs (I am going off memory of a 30 second All 22 replay that CBS showed).

Mitchell looked single high, and it didn't look like a disguise- I don't recall anyone else dropping deep.

I await your rewatch though.

that's what i saw too. The way Gay ran with Sanu, have to think it was Cover 1 and Mitchell was supposed to be helping over the top on Green. Still, Ike gave him way too free of a release.

[Fury]

Not going to lie, I thought they were pretty damned good minus a couple long plays.

This is exactly my fear, especially when we are in a tighter scoring game. I don't share the confidence in the D, especially the secondary, that others have. I recall the D playing OK against Denver with Tebow except for a few long plays.

[steelmann58]

I am concerned about the secondary but hope we get pressure on the QB
so that might help

[stillcajun]

First thing first, I thought Ben played one of his best games of the year. The accuracy, the decision making, the poise, pocket presence, everything that makes great QB's great, he had today.

The Counter Trey
Its that old Joe Gibbs and John Riggins play where a pair of hogs pull into the hole and lead a power run attack. Steelers have always been a right handed run team. But DeCastro has grown into a grown ass man and his ability to pull left on counter plays is devastating. Now they have the ability to run power to the right, and misdirection to weak side or change the strength of the formation post-snap with blockers like Heath and DeCastro. That's why they aren't going to draft a basketball player TE. By the way, don't want to forget to mention, this blocking scheme and run game coordination is the work of Mike Munchak. Its taken on his personality to a "T". The patient run style of Bell to let blocks develop, the blocking scheme, last time I saw that combo Chris Johnson had 2,000 yards.


The Defense
Not going to lie, I thought they were pretty damned good minus a couple long plays. I thought they looked agressive and physical. Looked like Bengals were going to set up another double move early against all that off coverage then the Steelers adjusted and starting pressing on the corners. Return of McClendon paid big dividends in the run game. I thought all the LB's flashed at different points. McCain and Blake both looked decent, both made some nice plays in the passing game.

The Coaching
This is a tale of 2 halves to me. I was frustrated early in the game with offensive play calling leading to stalled drives. I thought a couple calls were head scratchers. Run when you should've passed, passed when you should've run when they had tempo and momentum to keep a defense on its heels.

And it turns out to me the story of this game was the brilliant coaching. Staying patient in the run game and capitalizing on what it could set up. And again, some of the play design was brilliant. The TD pass to Bell. Expecting man coverage on the goal line they run clearing routes to one side of the field and get 26 isolated on a LB in man coverage and a quick stick-nod route and he walks across. Also attacking on the long TD to Bryant in single high man coverage. Basically to me the play calling has been so great because other teams are devoting so many resources to cover AB.

Also, potted plant cemented the fact he's still never had a losing season

Bengals are a team that want to come in and run the ball 50 times. They don't want to put it in the hands of Dalton. I thought all phases complemented each other to perfection to not allow that.

I won't even bother with the obvious about the playmakers in Bell and Brown. Just amazing

Good post IC.
Counter Trey was beautiful to watch. Bell is a special player. Talk about poetry in motion, this cat was near unstoppable. You really saw the difference when Harris was in the game vs. Bell. Harris got the ball and then immediately ran directly into the line for about 1-2 yds. He wasn't patient and didn't let his blocks develop. Vision and patience could've gotten him great yardage. I believe he wound up avg. 1 yd per carry.

McClendon really makes this run D. look really good. If only he could stay healthy because he's had a great season this year when he's played. Loved Moats today as well. He put on his big boy pants and brought it. V. Williams brought it today as well. He plays with so many bad intentions that if he was faster we might be talking All-Pro w/ this guy in a couple of years. Might be time to stop the switching out w/ him and Spence. Let him play the buck and let Timmons roam free in the Mack. I believe that's our best ILB combo right now. Shazier can come in and spell Timmons or shift w/ Timmons and give Williams a break.

I agree on the coaching as well. Pretty solid job in the second half. Really aggressive and went for the jugular on both sides of the ball. One issue I have is that they should've been breaking out the PA much earlier as well as Bell was running the ball.

Really good effort overall.

[Legacy User]

Was able to rewatch the first half. The couple plays in question

First, the long deep pass to AJ Green. Twins right I believe. Steelers in 1/4 1/4 1/2 to his side. The look they should be in. Mitchell on far side of field. They ran a curl with a TE as the only route to opposite side of field to draw him up. AJ Green just runs his route from the slot and splits the backside safeties safeties. Both safeties were late reacting. As Fouts said, ball in the air a long time. But AJ Green is a stud. A lot WR's can't pull that off. Great play design, safeties late reacting. To me, its as much on Troy as Mitchell

Second play, Gresham TD. Another great play design. Multiple TE's to right side of formation. Single WR split left. Steelers in obvious cover 3. With no WR to the right, Gay is up on LOS in run support. WR to left carries his route to the end zone. Initially, its the only route in the pattern which draws Mitchell to that side. Gresham fakes as if he's blocking in playaction, then releases. Technically its Gay's guy. He was in a rock and a hard place. Just great play design.

Also, Spence had a nice game. He's the one that forced the Moats sack. Rotation of Williams and Spence has looked nice. Both players getting faster every week.

Timmons had a great game. As did McClendon.

Jarvis Jones had a decent game. For those that say he doesn't have a 2nd move missed his inside rip that got home. Unfortunately they ran a screen on that play.

William Gay had a very nice game. Ike Taylor wasn't as bad as I initially thought on first glance.

Only series I thought Ben was bad was FG possession near the end of the first half. His "goal to go" performance wasn't great. Bryant tripped up on 3rd down play.

They had a good plan for AJ Green. He had the game he had because he's AJ Green. He do what you do. Wears a suit to work, and just bought a 10,000 gallon salt water fish tank. But he has wireless head phone problems. Once he solved that, he rolls like a boss

Mike Adams is a sloth. Matt Spaeth looked very good in the run game.

Tuitt also looked good

its all I got

[bradshaw2ben]

Should have watched second half, too! Adams was very good in second-half. Holding call was bullshit. I agree with your assessment of Ike and Gay.

On the second long AJ Green pass, it was most definitely cover six. Quarter quarter half. There's no excuse for the way Mike Mitchell played it. Ike actually did give AJ a quick push off the line and sent him towards the safety help. The only way that pass should be completed is if it's over the cornerback at the sideline. Otherwise the safety playing half the field should be able to get there.

I ended up even more impressed with Leveon Bell's performance. Blocking was good but his vision cuts power speed made it spectacular, even on modest gains.

Crediting your boy with pressure on a screen where the OL lets him go is the epitome of reaching for a compliment-- I'll chalk that up as a win for my point of view.

Anyway, JJ did make an excellent play lined up off the line-- I think if Jarvis and Collins swapped teams and defenses right now; they'd both be stars. JJ looks so much better reacting in a 4-3 OLB type set-- flashes to the ball.

If we switch to a 4-3 soon, the pick will look brilliant.

[Legacy User]

Should have watched second half, too! Adams was very good in second-half. Holding call was bullshit. I agree with your assessment of Ike and Gay.

On the second long AJ Green pass, it was most definitely cover six. Quarter quarter half. There's no excuse for the way Mike Mitchell played it. Ike actually did give AJ a quick push off the line and sent him towards the safety help. The only way that pass should be completed is if it's over the cornerback at the sideline. Otherwise the safety playing half the field should be able to get there.

I ended up even more impressed with Leveon Bell's performance. Blocking was good but his vision cuts power speed made it spectacular, even on modest gains.

Crediting your boy with pressure on a screen where the OL lets him go is the epitome of reaching for a compliment-- I'll chalk that up as a win for my point of view.

Anyway, JJ did make an excellent play lined up off the line-- I think if Jarvis and Collins swapped teams and defenses right now; they'd both be stars. JJ looks so much better reacting in a 4-3 OLB type set-- flashes to the ball.

If we switch to a 4-3 soon, the pick will look brilliant.

people say I'm a hater, Im just a critic

You sir, are a hater

[bradshaw2ben]

just call it like I see it

If what the Steelers want to do is go more multiple look, then I can see a place for Jarvis. He can play well in a 4-3 WOLB look, he can set the edge as 3-4 OLB, he can blitz from interior. Is that where you think this is headed?

He's just never going to be a Dwight Freeney/DeMarcus Ware/Von Miller/Justin Houston/Tamba Hali/James Harrison edge rusher and it doesn't appear Worilds is either.

[Legacy User]

Did anybody notice the play in the second half where Ben tried to throw a quick pass out to Brown on a called run play because the corner was playing off, but DeCastro pulled (because it was a called run), bumped Ben's elbow and forced an ugly incompletion?

[lifelongsteel]

Did anybody notice the play in the second half where Ben tried to throw a quick pass out to Brown on a called run play because the corner was playing off, but DeCastro pulled (because it was a called run), bumped Ben's elbow and forced an ugly incompletion?

Yes. Ben had "gulp" the option to run or pass. DeCastro too fast for that shit

[Legacy User]

Yes even I saw that. Did they mention it on the replay, I believe so.

[bradshaw2ben]

yes they showed a replay of Ben's arm hitting Decastro

Actually could have been a disaster. Probably a good lesson to learn-- if you have a check with me, don't forget that the backside OG is pulling into the spot where you're standing.

[Legacy User]

Yes even I saw that. Did they mention it on the replay, I believe so.

They did. I believe they said Ben has that option on most running plays and has used it quite a bit in the past few years.

[Legacy User]

just call it like I see it

If what the Steelers want to do is go more multiple look, then I can see a place for Jarvis. He can play well in a 4-3 WOLB look, he can set the edge as 3-4 OLB, he can blitz from interior. Is that where you think this is headed?

He's just never going to be a Dwight Freeney/DeMarcus Ware/Von Miller/Justin Houston/Tamba Hali/James Harrison edge rusher and it doesn't appear Worilds is either.

And Antonio Brown will never be a #1 WR. Cody Wallace is better than Pouncey. Timmons, Shazier, Jarvis are all tampa 2 WLB's. Steve McClendon will never be a NT and should be moved to DE. Heath Miller is washed up

Did I miss anything?

Give it time. I think your 4-3 analysis is WAY off base. He's been hurt. Hasn't had the opportunity to prove it yet. I watched every snap of Tamba Hali's college career. I never thought he'd be an NFL sack leader. Never thought he could stand up. A lot of new faces trying to learn to play together on that defense.

And in case you haven't noticed, quarters based coverage isn't all that conducive to helping pass rush when it basically begs the QB to get the ball ASAP..

[bradshaw2ben]

Antonio Brown won't ever be an X, and I think you know that was really the argument if you're not trying to be coy.

He's the best WR in the game right now, though.

If Jarvis isn't a 3-4 OLB pass rusher but he's as great as AB at some other role, then, hot damn that would be great.

[Legacy User]

Antonio Brown won't ever be an X, and I think you know that was really the argument if you're not trying to be coy.

He's the best WR in the game right now, though.

If Jarvis isn't a 3-4 OLB pass rusher but he's as great as AB at some other role, then, hot damn that would be great.

I wasn't characterizing those as your arguments persay, just that they existed.

And I think he's already an X, a very successful one. Maybe not in the Andre Johnson mold I think you have in your head. But he's the best WR in the league right now. Lets hope Jarvis Jones and rest of the team reach that level too.

[bradshaw2ben]

AB doesn't run that X role at all... maybe 5 times per game, if that.

He's doing all this as a Y without a top of the league X... that's kind of amazing. He doesn't really take the top off of a D and he's not exactly a physical receiver who will win 50/50 balls nor take big hits over the middle. It's just mind boggling how good he is at everything else it means to be a WR.

[lifelongsteel]

AB doesn't run that X role at all... maybe 5 times per game, if that.

He's doing all this as a Y without a top of the league X... that's kind of amazing. He doesn't really take the top off of a D and he's not exactly a physical receiver who will win 50/50 balls nor take big hits over the middle. It's just mind boggling how good he is at everything else it means to be a WR.

We've been trained to think that winning 50/50 balls, outrunning guys with flat out speed, and being tough over the middle are what it means to be a WR.

The #1 most important skill/trait for a WR is getting open. #2 is catching the ball when thrown to you.

He is the best player in the league at getting open. period. and i don't think it's close.