Eli Rogers, 3rd WR on depth chart...

[bradshaw2ben]

Chidi, this isn't odd timing at all, it is just more of an observation and unfortunately a fact.

This 3rd preseason game, and the game where all the starters get on the field and do their 'dress rehearsal' before the season starts is a very important indicator of who they 'trust', who they think are 'answers', who they think can get it done on offense.

Bell, Brown, Ben, etc, all the cast of characters were out there and then who was out there for every play as the #2 and #3 WR? Wheaton and Rogers.

That is who the Steelers believe give them the best chances on offense to open the season against Washington.

Now I wish Coates was the unquestioned #2, but he isn't, at least not yet, maybe that changes as the season unfolds. But right now, it is AB, Wheaton as the #2 and Rogers as the #3, slot WR. Coates has a lot of work to do.

And for all of this talk of how the offense will be doomed, well, still, Ben with this horrible #2 and #3 WRs was still able to methodically move down the field and score 2 TDs.

Against a D where teams go to feel good about themselves once again. Nobody is worried about beating those teams. Baltimore has 4 edge rushers either of last night's participants would be thrilled to have starting for them-- they compress time in the pass game. If you put two guys out there in the pattern who can't get open right away, you are fucked. Even when you put out an optimum group, sometimes you're still fucked. The Jets get interior pressure and combine that with traditionally tight CB play. Same sort of problem.

Steelers with Wheaton primarily getting the snaps Bryant got are statistically and empirically worse... by far. Is that suddenly going to get better in 2016?

[Scunge]

Well, I was disappointed in Wheaton's performance in the two playoff games and find myself curious how he will respond this season.

Yes, he was terrible in the playoffs, but his performance down the stretch to help earn that playoff spot was critical. Those last 6 games he had 28 catches for 476 yards and 4 TDs, and yes that 200 yard game against Seattle skews those numbers a tad. But look at what Bryant did in those same 6 games.

Bryant had 28 catches for just 325 yards, and only scored 1 TD in those last 6 games. Bryant ended the season with two pretty putrid games, 1 catch for 6 yards against the Ravens and 1 catch for 0 yards against Cleveland. Ben called him out and challenged him, and rightfully so.

But the point remains that Ben was leaning more on Wheaton down the stretch over Bryant, and Wheaton was not really being productive as a slot WR, he was doing this damage as an outside WR as I recall. Anyway some may argue otherwise, some see him as only a slot WR, some see him as an outside WR. I don't think it is that simple.

It won't shock me to see him catch 75-80 balls this year and go over 1,100 yards and have 8-9 TDs. He did average 17.0 yards a catch last season, that did lead the team, he does have 4.45 speed, his hands are decent, he has Ben throwing him the ball.

At the end of the day, I don't care if Ben has three WRs that are all 5'11" and weigh 180-190, if they can play then so be it. I think some are just enamored with having a tall big bodied WR out there at all costs and who cares if they can play or not. If Bey and Coates can't run all the routes and don't have the hands and trust of Haley and Ben then get ready to watch the smurfs play.

[Steelafan77]

I could see the starting 3 WRs being Brown, Heyward-Bey and Wheaton. Coates and Rogers as 4 and 5....

They can line up Wheaton and Brown from either inside/outside IMO. Both receivers are capable of making plays from anywhere they are lined up. Throw healthy Le'Veon Bell in that mix too. I'm thinking Rogers could really make a name for himself with return duties.

[Scunge]

I am not saying you are wrong Steelafan77, but did you watch this 3rd preseason game at all? Rogers was in there on virtually every single play with Ben, he lined up exclusively in the slot with Wheaton outside. I don't see how Bey has a chance in hell of having more playing time than Rogers

I never thought I would say this but Wheaton is not as bad as some of you make it out to be as an outside WR.

Last season Bryant caught 50 passes and had 10 catches over 20+ yards and 5 catches over 40+ yards. So, big athletic freak obviously had more big plays, more splash plays than Wheaton, right?

Not so fast, Wheaton had a 17.0 yard avg compared to Bryants 15.3 and even though he had only 44 catches he still managed to have 9 passes over 20+ yards and 5 passes over 40+ yards. So, Wheaton had 6 fewer catches than Bryant yet both had the same amount of 40+ yard catches, interesting.

But to showcase how Wheaton has a more well rounded game, it really is about moving the chains, about getting first downs.

Quick, somebody tell me which player had the best percentage of catches that went for a first down? This is not a trivial thing. A drive consists of many 3rd and shorts, 3rd and longs, 3rd and forevers, all it takes is one incomplete pass on 3rd down and time to punt.

So, who was the best WR last season on the Steelers percentage-wise for getting first downs on their catches. Antonio Brown? Bryant? Bey? Wheaton?

Brown had a 62% rate of first downs on his catches.
Hayward-Bey had a 52% rate of first downs on his catches.
Bryant had a 50% rate of first downs on his catches.

And Markus Wheaton? He had a 73% rate of first downs on his catches. This offense needs to have WRs that can get first downs. 50% is not going to cut it. Bey and I think Coates are in that category, they just do not have the routes or hands to be the 2nd or 3rd WR and to be counted upon to convert 3rd downs consistently and move the chains. This is why I see Wheaton and Rogers as the clear #2 and #3, if Ben and Haley plan to go more no-huddle, more hurry up offense, more up tempo, than the ball is coming out in a hurry and they need WRs that can be slippery and run routes and have the hands to catch the ball. Ben did say that was the plan for the Saints game, to use more of a fast tempo offense, so are Bey and Coates ready for that right now?

I know everybody wants to see Brown go over 2,000 yards this season but what I want is Haley/Tomlin to allow Ben to use this fast tempo offense and have 3 WRs go over 1,000 yards, like how Haley had Arizona do in 2008 with Fitz, Boldin and Breaston. A more dangerous offense is one where the attack is diversified and not reliant on just one player.

How do you score 30 points a game, score 500 points for the year? Have 3 WRs over 1,000 yards, Brown, Wheaton, and Rogers.

[955876]

Do not hamstring yourself because of depth chart mismanagement.

T

O

M

L

I

N

.

.

.

[Steelafan77]

I do agree with you Scunge. Otherwise my 3 WR's would look like Brown, Bryant and Wheaton. That said, I believe Rogers is that "Quick Twitch" WR much like AB. Obviously Rogers isn't on the same level as AB is but his ability/potential suggest he has similar capability. I only wrote those 3 (Brown, Wheaton and Heyward-Bey) because I've seen how the Steelers conduct business over the decades. Do I agree with their business tactics every time? No. Should Hey-Bey be getting #3 reps? If only out of experience, yeah. That said, I believe that Rogers will eventually overtake Hey-bey sometime during the season. The saving grace for Hey-bey has been he knows the offense, he's an experienced vet and plays well on ST's. Anyway, I believe Rogers may have something to say about that as he gains more experience at both offense and ST's this season. Again, All this is in part due to the Bryant season long suspension. Next season it could look quite different too.

[Kodiak]

Wheaton will be out of the league in 4 years, unless he comes back to PIT as vet depth after being cut by whomever decides to sign him next year.

The first 4 games last year without Bryant, Wheaton did practically nothing - 8 catches for 156 yards and 0 TD's...projected over a full season, that's about as bad as it gets production-wise from a #2.

The next 12 games primarily as a #3 - 36 catches for 593 and 5 TD's....veryy good for a #3, skewed by the one massive outlier game, but again consider who is throwing the ball and the rest of the talent on that offense.

Two playoff games: 7 catches for 53 yards total, and 0 TD's. Again, that's pretty horrible for a #2 in the playoffs.


Wheaton is not, and never will be, a #2 receiver. Steelers may be ok this year with him in the slot if they find a decent #2, but they need better than what Wheaton has put on tape.

[955876]

That said, I believe Rogers is that "Quick Twitch" WR much like AB.

I've actually been thinking about how things might look with AB and Rogers lined up on the same side. Could give the DBs plenty to think about. Two guys who can get in and out of their breaks with precision could be a nice weapon.

WR on the opposite side of the field then needs to deliver.

[Steelafan77]

Yes sir 95. Next season (God Willing) it could look like Brown, Bryant and Rogers. Imagine that line up in addition to Bell/Williams? Hate to leave Green out there but we still have no idea about Green. If Green makes it on the field... Wow!

[bradshaw2ben]

Do not hamstring yourself because of depth chart mismanagement.

T

O

M

L

I

N

.

.

.

H A. L. E. Y

[Gonzo]

T H E T E F L O N C O A C H

rule No 127 -- the real reason for coordinators is to deflect blame from the HC

[Legacy User]

I think Tomlin largely lets his coordinators find their own groove.

I think he is largely in charge of vibe and promoting the right atmosphere for vibe and groove to become more than the sum of their parts

[bradshaw2ben]

Deciding the pecking order for WRs is a process that is going to be started by WR coach and OC. AT SOME POINT the HC can say: I want so and so instead. They a;l have culpability but Haley sure looks like the conservative one who likes the guys he trusts.

On a related note, Haley (I assume it's him) came up with some nice wrinkles to his bread and butter plays. It's the kind of red zone development I'd hoped for. We'll see once they call plays and defenses for real in a couple of weeks.

[Legacy User]

As it stands right now Rogers will have this year and next to stake his claim
Coates has this year and 2 more, DHB has this year and 2 more.

All of those are VERY friendly contracts currently.

Wheaton is a FA after this year.

AB will of course be extended at star level at some point.

Coates DHB Rogers isnt a bad supporting cast to ABs star role.

I think Wheatons agent will play up his track speed and 2nd fiddle to AB role
for better offer elsewhere. The Steelers will still have Bryant in their back pocket, albeit dangling loosely, and look to draft a WR probably 3rd rd or later, although possibly in the 2nd. Right now all signs point to OLB edge rusher being a top priority followed closely by RB and probably a S or CB

[Scunge]

Actually Chef, Wheaton is a UFA after the year, this is his 4th and last season of his rookie contract.

Hopefully Bryant serves out his suspension and he starts next season and the team is none the worse for wear if Wheaton does leave via free agency.

[Legacy User]

Actually Chef, Wheaton is a UFA after the year, this is his 4th and last season of his rookie contract.

Hopefully Bryant serves out his suspension and he starts next season and the team is none the worse for wear if Wheaton does leave via free agency.

You are correct. I will edit. Point remains though, if Rogers can be what hes looked like in very small glimpses, we arent in horrible shape at wr moving fwd the next 2 years or so.

[Steelafan77]

Going by the last snap count Scunge I believe you are correct. 1,2 and 3 respectively looks like... Brown, Wheaton and Rogers. Why do I state this?
Below

@adamlevitan
Ben Roethlisberger played 19 snaps Friday. WR snaps: Antonio Brown 19, Markus Wheaton 18, Eli Rogers 17, Sammie Coates 0, Hayward-Bey 0. https://twitter.com/adamlevitan/status/ ... 7162938368

[Orangesteel]

Deciding the pecking order for WRs is a process that is going to be started by WR coach and OC. AT SOME POINT the HC can say: I want so and so instead. They a;l have culpability but Haley sure looks like the conservative one who likes the guys he trusts.

On a related note, Haley (I assume it's him) came up with some nice wrinkles to his bread and butter plays. It's the kind of red zone development I'd hoped for. We'll see once they call plays and defenses for real in a couple of weeks.

That bubble screen variation to Brown where he faked running up field and turned around was fucking awesome. Blocked perfectly. I think Gilbert took out two defenders on that play. Went for 11 yards or so.

[burmanj]

to me... wheaton reminds me of Emanuel Sanders... not so much in body type... Sanders is much skinnier.. You can see the talent.... but they never seem to make the play when the team needs it. I see Wheaton having a nice year... 50-70 catches... 5-6 td's ... then moves on. If it's the right situation.. I can see him flourish just as Sanders did in Denver

[lifelongsteel]

to me... wheaton reminds me of Emanuel Sanders... not so much in body type... Sanders is much skinnier.. You can see the talent.... but they never seem to make the play when the team needs it. I see Wheaton having a nice year... 50-70 catches... 5-6 td's ... then moves on. If it's the right situation.. I can see him flourish just as Sanders did in Denver

3rd year stats
Sanders: 44/626/1 on 75 targets
Wheaton: 44/749/5 on 79 targets

I'm baffled by the pitchforks

[langer]

Sanders never had the matchups Wheaton did. Sanders was facing #1s and #2s. Kinda like leaving off Willie Parker's long runs.

Wheaton was running in between AB and Bryant vs 3s, with the occasional 2s and 4s.

[Legacy User]

Plan seems to be Coates replaces Wheaton after he moves on this off season. Ayers showed enough for practice squad this year in case Rogers falter or gets injured and another guy will be drafted as well, middle rounds probably. 3rd round has definitely been a charm.

[lifelongsteel]

Sanders never had the matchups Wheaton did. Sanders was facing #1s and #2s. Kinda like leaving off Willie Parker's long runs.

Wheaton was running in between AB and Bryant vs 3s, with the occasional 2s and 4s.

Not so fast my friend!

In 2012, Sanders' third year, he "was" the #3 receiver. He had 75 targets, Wallace had 119, Brown had 106.

[bradshaw2ben]

Sanders never had the matchups Wheaton did. Sanders was facing #1s and #2s. Kinda like leaving off Willie Parker's long runs.

Wheaton was running in between AB and Bryant vs 3s, with the occasional 2s and 4s.

Not so fast my friend!

In 2012, Sanders' third year, he "was" the #3 receiver. He had 75 targets, Wallace had 119, Brown had 106.

I can't do math-- was looking at his 4th year numbers.

[lifelongsteel]

Sanders never had the matchups Wheaton did. Sanders was facing #1s and #2s. Kinda like leaving off Willie Parker's long runs.

Wheaton was running in between AB and Bryant vs 3s, with the occasional 2s and 4s.

Not so fast my friend!

In 2012, Sanders' third year, he "was" the #3 receiver. He had 75 targets, Wallace had 119, Brown had 106.

I can't do math-- was looking at his 4th year numbers.

math = no bueno

I think many on this board have a bias "against" good, mid level professional football players. Dudes like Wheaton, McClendon, Gay, Foster. Sure I get that we would prefer pro bowlers everywhere, but it's not realistic for a number of reasons. I'll never understand the clamor to discard productive players.

[jeemie]

I was going to make a joke post about "taking away Willie Parker's long runs", but B2B went and actually posted that.

[Obviously]

Sanders never had the matchups Wheaton did. Sanders was facing #1s and #2s. Kinda like leaving off Willie Parker's long runs.

Wheaton was running in between AB and Bryant vs 3s, with the occasional 2s and 4s.

Another B2Ber that he always defends - good ol' Emmanuel "CLANG" Sanders.

[bradshaw2ben]

I think we can all agree Sanders was misused here-- they tried to make him the deep threat guy to replace Wallace. That was dumb. Just as dumb to make Wheaton the deep threat guy to replace Bryant.

I have no bias against productive mid level players. And fact, I probably defend Foster more than anyone. I am mostly upset if players about high talent level players who don't get snaps, who don't get opportunities because the vet in front of them is okay.

[Legacy User]

I think we can all agree Sanders was misused here-- they tried to make him the deep threat guy to replace Wallace. That was dumb. Just as dumb to make Wheaton the deep threat guy to replace Bryant.

I have no bias against productive mid level players. And fact, I probably defend Foster more than anyone. I am mostly upset if players about high talent level players who don't get snaps, who don't get opportunities because the vet in front of them is okay.

[lifelongsteel]

I think we can all agree Sanders was misused here-- they tried to make him the deep threat guy to replace Wallace. That was dumb. Just as dumb to make Wheaton the deep threat guy to replace Bryant.

I have no bias against productive mid level players. And fact, I probably defend Foster more than anyone. I am mostly upset if players about high talent level players who don't get snaps, who don't get opportunities because the vet in front of them is okay.

i think you think that happens a lot more often than it actually does