Danny Smith / Sean Davis

[jeemie]

If he can't even get the ball off the tee, then he obviously isn't good enough at it and I don't want him trying it with the game on the line.

Ben's thrown interceptions before. Should we not trust him with the game on the line to throw a pass?

I mean...at least one time, he's fucked up and thrown a pick.

You're just mad because it looked so bad.

Lots of plays look pretty awesome when executed correctly, but like complete shit when not.

Any other thing you'd like to judge on a sample size of one?

[jeemie]

BY the way, did it look to anyone else that not only did Sean Davis not make the block, but that he actually got out of the way, on purpose, of the punt rusher?

That makes it seem like he had an idea that someone else was supposed to pick up that particular guy.

[steeledge]

If he can't even get the ball off the tee, then he obviously isn't good enough at it and I don't want him trying it with the game on the line.

Ben's thrown interceptions before. Should we not trust him with the game on the line to throw a pass?

I mean...at least one time, he's fucked up and thrown a pick.

You're just mad because it looked so bad.

Lots of plays look pretty awesome when executed correctly, but like complete shit when not.

Any other thing you'd like to judge on a sample size of one?

Way too great a risk just to "get cute" and shit all over ourselves like that.
...certainly not worth the reward...

[Orangesteel]

Like when he hit a 54 yard field goal in a tryout before joining the team? Let him try it again, right?

Unlike that attempt, he executed a Robana kick in a real game.

There's no such thing as a play that has a zero percent chance of failure.

No shit? Thanks for letting me know. I'll be sure to turn into Sportcenter tonight for their "Week in Robana Kicks" segment. I'm gonna guess a Steeler will appear in it.

[Orangesteel]

If he can't even get the ball off the tee, then he obviously isn't good enough at it and I don't want him trying it with the game on the line.

Ben's thrown interceptions before. Should we not trust him with the game on the line to throw a pass?

I mean...at least one time, he's fucked up and thrown a pick.

You're just mad because it looked so bad.

Lots of plays look pretty awesome when executed correctly, but like complete shit when not.

Any other thing you'd like to judge on a sample size of one?

Haha, but he pulled it off on college once!!! Jeemie you are something else dude. Really.

[jeemie]

Way too great a risk just to "get cute" and shit all over ourselves like that.
...certainly not worth the reward...

A play that's going to be low percentage no matter what is the PRECISE time to "get cute with it".

You have to try and tip the odds any way you can.

[jeemie]

Haha, but he pulled it off on college once!!! Jeemie you are something else dude. Really.

So is it your contention that kickoffs in the NFL are incredibly different from kickoffs in college?

[Orangesteel]

Like when he hit a 54 yard field goal in a tryout before joining the team? Let him try it again, right?

Unlike that attempt, he executed a Robana kick in a real game.

There's no such thing as a play that has a zero percent chance of failure.

So you are gonna bash the decision to let Boz try the 54 yarder because Tomlin references the time he pulled it off in a tryout, but the robana try is totally fine because he did it once in college?

What if he hit a 54 yard FG in college? Tomlin is absolved in the decision in the Pats game?

[Orangesteel]

Way too great a risk just to "get cute" and shit all over ourselves like that.
...certainly not worth the reward...

A play that's going to be low percentage no matter what is the PRECISE time to "get cute with it".

You have to try and tip the odds any way you can.

Yeah he tipped the odds alright, right into the back of his leg.

[jeemie]

Like when he hit a 54 yard field goal in a tryout before joining the team? Let him try it again, right?

Unlike that attempt, he executed a Robana kick in a real game.

There's no such thing as a play that has a zero percent chance of failure.

So you are gonna bash the decision to let Boz try the 54 yarder because Tomlin references the time he pulled it off in a tryout, but the robana try is totally fine because he did it once in college?

What if he hit a 54 yard FG in college? Tomlin is absolved in the decision in the Pats game?

So a decision to go for a long FG on 4th and short is the EXACT same situation as an onside kick where the odds of success are low to begin with, but the ONLY way you're going to have a chance to tie the game is by succeeding?

Give me an apples-to-apples comparison and we can discuss it.

It was an onside kick everyone knew was coming. The odds of the Steelers recovering it were low to begin with.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with trying to do something different there.

Unlike the 54-yard FG decision, the Steelers had no other options other than to try and recover the onside kick any way they could.

In that case, there was nothing wrong with trying something different.

[COR-TEN]

Like when he hit a 54 yard field goal in a tryout before joining the team? Let him try it again, right?

Unlike that attempt, he executed a Robana kick in a real game.

There's no such thing as a play that has a zero percent chance of failure.

So you are gonna bash the decision to let Boz try the 54 yarder because Tomlin references the time he pulled it off in a tryout, but the robana try is totally fine because he did it once in college?

What if he hit a 54 yard FG in college? Tomlin is absolved in the decision in the Pats game?

I'm with you, orange on that one. How often does Boz practice that during the week? Is it the same as kicking a field goal? Not in my eyes. I can't see how you can't justify a 54 yard field goal and yet sanction a quirky style of onside kick that was successful once in college.

[Orangesteel]

Jeemie, answer my question. If Boz hit the 54 yarder in college, are you going to write Tomlin an email apologizing for being critical of his decision?

[Orangesteel]

And how does it speak to the odds of the robana when the guy performing it can't even get off the tee? Perhaps other kickers don't try it because of the risk presented when trying to execute a kick in that fashion?

I've said since the beginning the odds of an OS kick are very low, but just because Boz did it once in college doesn't mean he's any good at it. In fact, I don't believe that is the first time Bos has tried an OS kick for the steelers, but I know damn well that's the first robana he's tried as a Steeler. So has he been practicing it?

[jeemie]

What if he hit a 54 yard FG in college? Tomlin is absolved in the decision in the Pats game?

I'm with you, orange on that one. How often does Boz practice that during the week? Is it the same as kicking a field goal? Not in my eyes. I can't see how you can't justify a 54 yard field goal and yet sanction a quirky style of onside kick that was successful once in college.[/quote]

How do you know how many times Boswell practices that type of kick?

Maybe he practices it a lot?

In college, he was successful once with it, but apparently, he did it often in practice as well, upon request (this is based solely on a Twitter report, and so is unconfirmed), and never missed when he tried it.

And I gave other reasons as to why Boswell shouldn't have been allowed to attempt the 54-yard FG.

1- It's hard to kick a FG that long in Heinz Field
2- It was windy
3- Boswell had been pushing his FGs all game. It is true he really boomed the one he made before the 54-yard attempt, but that was the only reason it was good. It was pushed to the right as well.

So all those factors should have been more fresh in Tomlin's mind than a 54-yard attempt Boswell made in practice over a year ago. Add to that that it was the pink zone, where Tomlin or Haley might have considered setting up a more favorable fourth down play with a better third down call.

If it was late in the game, and it was the Steelers' last chance to score, and a FG would be for a win or tie, then I absolutely send Boswell out there to try it, even with everything else remaining the same. Why? Because the SITUATION is now different.

Just like the onside kick attempt was a TOTALLY DIFFERENT situation.

[jeemie]

Jeemie, answer my question. If Boz hit the 54 yarder in college, are you going to write Tomlin an email apologizing for being critical of his decision?

I answered the question. It was a totally different situation than the onside kick.

[steelheadtrout]

Frankly, I'm not so upset about on the onside kick, the percentages are so low anyway, esp. when the other team knows it's coming.

But then there is this choice quote from the other side:

“Before that punt even got blocked I told coach Jerry [Rosburg], ‘He keeps leaving me.’ Before the snap he just runs outside, and that’s my man. He said, ‘OK, we’re going to handle it.’ I knew I could get a block on him. If I faked like I was rushing and then go under, I knew I was going to block it.”

[jeemie]

And how does it speak to the odds of the robana when the guy performing it can't even get off the tee?

It doesn't speak to the odds at all, anymore than a ball slipping out a QB's hands and being recovered for a fumble or an interception doesn't speak to the odds of successfully completing a pass.

In this case, it looked like Boswell's plant foot popped up just as he began his swing, ruining the attempt.

It was an execution error, pure and simple.

How many times it's been attempted also doesn't speak to odds of success, save for making it difficult to ascertain because of a limited sample size.


Again- we know he's done it before. We have claims that when he tried it in practice on request in college, he was successful every time he tried it. We know soccer players use it as a misdirection shot in soccer all the time.

So there is some evidence that if attempted and executed properly, it can succeed. We don't have any evidence that it is so impossible that it shouldn't even be considered...especially as a way to perhaps increase already low odds of successfully recovering the onside kick.

[Orangesteel]

Jeemie, answer my question. If Boz hit the 54 yarder in college, are you going to write Tomlin an email apologizing for being critical of his decision?

I answered the question. It was a totally different situation than the onside kick.

LOL

[jeemie]

Frankly, I'm not so upset about on the onside kick, the percentages are so low anyway, esp. when the other team knows it's coming.

But then there is this choice quote from the other side:

“Before that punt even got blocked I told coach Jerry [Rosburg], ‘He keeps leaving me.’ Before the snap he just runs outside, and that’s my man. He said, ‘OK, we’re going to handle it.’ I knew I could get a block on him. If I faked like I was rushing and then go under, I knew I was going to block it.”

OK- that answered my question from before as to whether Davis thought someone else should get that guy.

[COR-TEN]

I'm not suggesting NOT to try the onside kick, just that if you agree with one, you have to agree with the other. They aren't as dissimilar situationally as you are painting it to be. Frankly, the odds were better for the 54 yard field goal than the onside kick. I'm guessing his success rate for 54 yard field goals is better than the quirky onside kick. Even in practice.

A quick google search :

On average, onside kicks that happen in National Football League games only work around 20 percent of the time, as of October 2014. Onside kicks were successful 41 percent of the time in 2013. Historically, onside kicks are successful about a third of the time.

I'm sure that includes the regular old fashioned onside kick.

65.8% is the success rate for 50+ yard field goals.

[lifelongsteel]

the irony is that we've been clamoring to get rookies on the field for years.

the two biggest plays of the game were Burns getting beat by Wallace and Davis deciding not to block.

[steelmann58]

Burns I could understand besides bad angle by MM
BUT no Excuse for Davis not to even chip his guy

[jeemie]

I'm not suggesting NOT to try the onside kick, just that if you agree with one, you have to agree with the other. They aren't as dissimilar situationally as you are painting it to be. Frankly, the odds were better for the 54 yard field goal than the onside kick. I'm guessing his success rate for 54 yard field goals is better than the quirky onside kick. Even in practice.

A quick google search :

On average, onside kicks that happen in National Football League games only work around 20 percent of the time, as of October 2014. Onside kicks were successful 41 percent of the time in 2013. Historically, onside kicks are successful about a third of the time.

I'm sure that includes the regular old fashioned onside kick.

65.8% is the success rate for 50+ yard field goals.

It was a totally dissimilar situation.

Steelers had options when they made the decision to go for the 54-yard attempt, and there were a whole bunch of other circumstances that made mere consideration of generic odds less applicable. But even if you want the straight math on it, going for it in the situation where the Steelers tried the FG (according to fivethirtyeight.com) was still slightly favored, even with today's better kickers.



And like I said, this doesn't take into account the wind, or Boswell's struggles in that game, or the struggles of the kicking that day in general (remember, normally reliable Gostowski missed an XP that game as well).

But the point was- the Steelers had options...and Tomlin admitted he didn't even consider any of them.

How is this in any ways similar to the situation where to tie the game, the Steelers HAD to convert the onside kick, and onside kicks where teams know it's coming are rarely successful? In what way does it make sense to be critical of the Steelers actually considering a way to increase the odds of success just because they chose a "riskier" way of doing that?

[Legacy User]

M M M MY, RABONA!

[bradshaw2ben]

the irony is that we've been clamoring to get rookies on the field for years.

the two biggest plays of the game were Burns getting beat by Wallace and Davis deciding not to block.

Burns may have allowed a short completion but Mitchell turned a 5 yard gain into a 90 yard gain.

[Orangesteel]

Mitchell has been giving up big plays all season, committing personal fouls, celebrating like a goddamn idiot. I'd bench him immediately and just put dangerfield back there even if he needs to get accustomed to the position.

[Legacy User]

Steve Smith: "Mike Mitchell isn't on my level. He's not even on my kids' level."

[Legacy User]

Not sure what Mitchell does exactly. I'm throwing him in the basket of Steeler deplorables w Tomlin and Sharknado.

[bradshaw2ben]

Mitchell is a cabinet.

Smith nailed that one.

[Legacy User]

is Smiff's kid available?