Refs -- something must be done

[steelcountry]

I think I've just seen the worst call I've ever seen, in the entire history of the NFL.

I don't even know what to say.

I agree he fumbled, but what does it take to determine he re-established possession?

He regained possession before hitting the pylon.

Where did I say he didn't?

My question is if there's certain criteria that needs to be shown to regain possession? When a defender recovers a fumble, he needs a foot in bounds I believe. Is it the same in this case?

[zeke5123]

Good lord, they put AL RIVIERON in charge of league review??? They promoted upward the guy who was a terrible referee? Um, okay.

That dude should already be fired.

[bradshaw2ben]

How was that a fumble? In what universe? Just a horrible horrible reversal.

That is overthinking the review to the max.

[COR-TEN]

I think I've just seen the worst call I've ever seen, in the entire history of the NFL.

I don't even know what to say.

I agree he fumbled, but what does it take to determine he re-established possession?

He didn't fumble. He never lost the football.

"Possession is subject to interpretation. That's the way the NFL likes it.

[COR-TEN]

Where did I say he didn't?

I know. You didn't. I misread your post.

[steelcountry]

I think I've just seen the worst call I've ever seen, in the entire history of the NFL.

I don't even know what to say.

I agree he fumbled, but what does it take to determine he re-established possession?

He didn't fumble. He never lost the football.

That's another tough question, what constitutes a fumble? If it's complete possession then he did fumble,but if not who knows.

[zeke5123]

Good lord, they put AL RIVIERON in charge of league review??? They promoted upward the guy who was a terrible referee? Um, okay.

That dude should already be fired. Like the game should be declared null and void.

[the-other-burg]

If that was a fumble, then I don't even know what the fuck I am watching anymore.

[Jobu]

Does Jets head coach Todd Bowles ever show emotion? Or change expression???
Quick...someone hold a mirror under his nose,

[Kodiak]

That's another tough question, what constitutes a fumble? If it's complete possession then he did fumble,but if not who knows.

Well, if the ball is not actually OUT when the knee hits it's not a fumble.

This is the kind of crap that actually IS killing the NFL. Can you imagine how badly the international soccer fans (that the NFL hopes to win over) must think the NFL is fixed?

[Baltostiller]

This is off topic but if you get the chance to see the replay of the Adrian Amos pick 6 against the ravens, check out the tackle attempt by Flacco. He kind of flails at Amos' legs and ends up taking out his own player who may have had a chance to catch him. It was hilarious.

[COR-TEN]

And people think kneeling for the flag is going to sink the NFL.

[Jobu]

That's another tough question, what constitutes a fumble? If it's complete possession then he did fumble,but if not who knows.

Well, if the ball is not actually OUT when the knee hits it's not a fumble.

This is the kind of crap that actually IS killing the NFL. Can you imagine how badly the international soccer fans (that the NFL hopes to win over) must think the NFL is fixed?

They better hurry up and win over those international soccer fans, because they’re losing the USA football fans...

[steelcountry]

That's another tough question, what constitutes a fumble? If it's complete possession then he did fumble,but if not who knows.

Well, if the ball is not actually OUT when the knee hits it's not a fumble.

This is the kind of crap that actually IS killing the NFL. Can you imagine how badly the international soccer fans (that the NFL hopes to win over) must think the NFL is fixed?

But if you think about a 'normal' fumble, if the ball starts moving before the knee goes down, they call it a fumble even if it's not fully out before the knee is down. That's kinda what happened here so it's a fumble in the same way they usually call fumbles, but I think he simply regained possession.

[SteeLori]

WTF!?! The pats are struggling so the NFL has to give them a hand.

[zeke5123]

How was that a fumble? In what universe? Just a horrible horrible reversal.

That is overthinking the review to the max.

Patriots have been gifted about 14 points -- maybe more. Winning by 7. Disgusting.

[Kodiak]

But if you think about a 'normal' fumble, if the ball starts moving before the knee goes down, they call it a fumble even if it's not fully out before the knee is down. That's kinda what happened here so it's a fumble in the same way they usually call fumbles, but I think he simply regained possession.

I would call it "juggling" in this case, and juggling is not a fumble unless he actually loses possession.

[K_C_]

The refs are simply being more blatant in their attempts to make sure New England gets to another Super Bowl.

No question.

They don't even mind if people know they're cheating.

[the-other-burg]

But if you think about a 'normal' fumble, if the ball starts moving before the knee goes down, they call it a fumble even if it's not fully out before the knee is down. That's kinda what happened here so it's a fumble in the same way they usually call fumbles, but I think he simply regained possession.

I would call it "juggling" in this case, and juggling is not a fumble unless he actually loses possession.

Terrible optic for the NFL. Especially based on who benefited.

[steelcountry]

But if you think about a 'normal' fumble, if the ball starts moving before the knee goes down, they call it a fumble even if it's not fully out before the knee is down. That's kinda what happened here so it's a fumble in the same way they usually call fumbles, but I think he simply regained possession.

I would call it "juggling" in this case, and juggling is not a fumble unless he actually loses possession.

But juggling is not something considered in the NFL rulebook.. If the ball is moving before a knee goes down it's nearly always called a fumble. That's what happened. Again I think it was a BS call, it's just where/when it becomes a BS call.

[Legacy User]

But if you think about a 'normal' fumble, if the ball starts moving before the knee goes down, they call it a fumble even if it's not fully out before the knee is down. That's kinda what happened here so it's a fumble in the same way they usually call fumbles, but I think he simply regained possession.

I would call it "juggling" in this case, and juggling is not a fumble unless he actually loses possession.

But juggling is not something considered in the NFL rulebook.. If the ball is moving before a knee goes down it's nearly always called a fumble. That's what happened.

Didn't see the play, but that sounds right to me.

[COR-TEN]

But if you think about a 'normal' fumble, if the ball starts moving before the knee goes down, they call it a fumble even if it's not fully out before the knee is down. That's kinda what happened here so it's a fumble in the same way they usually call fumbles, but I think he simply regained possession.

I would call it "juggling" in this case, and juggling is not a fumble unless he actually loses possession.

But juggling is not something considered in the NFL rulebook.. If the ball is moving before a knee goes down it's nearly always called a fumble. That's what happened. Again I think it was a BS call, it's just where/when it becomes a BS call.

He regained "possession" before breaking the plane or hitting the pylon. His knee didn't hit the ground until out of bounds. Besides, there was not enough evidence to overrule the call on the field, which was a TD.

[Kodiak]

.... If the ball is moving before a knee goes down it's nearly always called a fumble.

When a player LOSES possession. The ball never hit the turf. He never lost possession. They interpreted the rule such that they created a fumble where there was none.

[K_C_]

He regained "possession" before breaking the plane or hitting the pylon. His knee didn't hit the ground until out of bounds. Besides, there was not enough evidence to overrule the call on the field, which was a TD.

YEP.

[steelcountry]

But juggling is not something considered in the NFL rulebook.. If the ball is moving before a knee goes down it's nearly always called a fumble. That's what happened. Again I think it was a BS call, it's just where/when it becomes a BS call.

He regained "possession" before breaking the plane or hitting the pylon. His knee didn't hit the ground until out of bounds. Besides, there was not enough evidence to overrule the call on the field, which was a TD.

Sounds like we're saying the same thing.

I'm just trying to understand it from the NFL's perspective (Why? I don't know). If they call him losing possession for a split second a fumble, then does he need to get a foot/knee in bounds after he got possession back for it to be truly regaining possession? If his knee lands out of bounds then I don't think he did get a body part in bounds after regaining possession.

[zeke5123]

StillLit -- take a look at the replay. Seabs is just wrong. It is clear that the Jets player regained possession before any part of his body touches out of bounds. At the very least, it is unclear whether or not he regained possession. So tie has to go to the Jets player. Terrible call. Literally every announcer and all post game people agreed.

[K_C_]

StillLit -- take a look at the replay. Seabs is just wrong. It is clear that the Jets player regained possession before any part of his body touches out of bounds. At the very least, it is unclear whether or not he regained possession. So tie has to go to the Jets player. Terrible call. Literally every announcer and all post game people agreed.

YEP.

[steelcountry]

.... If the ball is moving before a knee goes down it's nearly always called a fumble.

When a player LOSES possession. The ball never hit the turf. He never lost possession. They interpreted the rule such that they created a fumble where there was none.

As soon as the ball starts moving they consider it be a loss of possession and fumble, if they didn't then all those plays where the knee goes down immediately after the ball starts moving would not be fumbles.

[swissvale72]

.... If the ball is moving before a knee goes down it's nearly always called a fumble.

When a player LOSES possession. The ball never hit the turf. He never lost possession. They interpreted the rule such that they created a fumble where there was none.

THAT is exactly right.

[steelcountry]

StillLit -- take a look at the replay. Seabs is just wrong. It is clear that the Jets player regained possession before any part of his body touches out of bounds. At the very least, it is unclear whether or not he regained possession. So tie has to go to the Jets player. Terrible call. Literally every announcer and all post game people agreed.

What are you talking about? I've said 3 times I think he regained possession. I'm trying to think it through like the NFL did, which people are somehow misconstruing.