New National Anthem Policy

[Legacy User]

You know, mods, I got banned the last time I talked politics on this site. In a debate with 95 BTW. I wasn't thrilled, but it was only for a week, and I thought that if being banned for a week meant that I would no longer have to see 95's idiotic drivel then it would be well worth it. So I did my time, and I was away from the site for a week, and yet somehow I'm still seeing 95's idiotic drivel.

So, mods, do we get banned for talking about politics here or don't we?

I'm fully expecting to go down in flames. But then, part of me thinks like you do -- 95 is the biggest perpetrator of political talk on this forum and he's still here. So maybe I'll get a slap on the wrist.

[955876]

You know, mods, I got banned the last time I talked politics on this site. In a debate with 95 BTW. I wasn't thrilled, but it was only for a week, and I thought that if being banned for a week meant that I would no longer have to see 95's idiotic drivel then it would be well worth it. So I did my time, and I was away from the site for a week, and yet somehow I'm still seeing 95's idiotic drivel.

So, mods, do we get banned for talking about politics here or don't we?

I got banned that week too. So your sniveling is unwarranted.

And as per usual, I responded to comments 4 pages deep. They were already getting that way.

Why wasn’t LTW’s comments held in the same regard? Or anyone’s for that matter?

You only call out my comments & post because you disagree with them. Yet I’m not talking to myself here NOR did I originate.

As per usual.

I have no need to comment further. Too many tears & tampons for my taste.

You have your safe space back P. I don’t have any puppies or crayons to give you though.

[955876]

You know, mods, I got banned the last time I talked politics on this site. In a debate with 95 BTW. I wasn't thrilled, but it was only for a week, and I thought that if being banned for a week meant that I would no longer have to see 95's idiotic drivel then it would be well worth it. So I did my time, and I was away from the site for a week, and yet somehow I'm still seeing 95's idiotic drivel.

So, mods, do we get banned for talking about politics here or don't we?

I'm fully expecting to go down in flames. But then, part of me thinks like you do -- 95 is the biggest perpetrator of political talk on this forum and he's still here. So maybe I'll get a slap on the wrist.

Hmmmm, wasn’t this posted before I said a thing in this thread? No. Not political at all is it??

“”””“””””“They're fucking silently kneeling during the national anthem, not holding picket signs. This is all so fucking stupid.

And it's perpetuated by the people who are spitting on John McCain's legacy. Saying he wasn't a hero because he was captured, calling him "Singing" John McCain because of unfounded claims of his breaking under torture, saying his opinion/vote doesn't matter because he'll be dead soon, etc. He is one of the greatest living Americans, a great patriot and public servant, and this is how he's being treated in his final months. All by someone who dodged the draft because of "bone spurs." It's disgusting.

The false-patriotism and hypocrisy is fucking sickening. Support our troops! (Except when it comes to healthcare, mental healthcare, providing support for them as they enter society, providing adequate body armor... the list goes on and on).

Also, when you're an asshole, I know it sucks to be told to stop being an asshole. I feel for you.

You're all butthurt, triggered snowflakes.””””””””””””

Wasn’t that you LTW? Before I said a thing? So Boo hoo with this 95 is the biggest perpetrator of political talk. Ummm my first post here was in response to YOUR political talk.

Keep shaking your fist at the sky LTW.

What does that stand for? Lemming That Whines?

[Legacy User]

I’m just saying, man, any time politics are brought up, you seem to be involved with threads that go on, and on, and on. It’s as if a trigger is pulled and you show up!

In other news, I’ll be in your great state next week for a trip starting in San Fran, to Yosemite, and winding up in Santa Barbara. Thank god the POTUS was unable to deliver on his promised wall — I am looking forward to some bomb ass tacos in SoCal!

[Havoc]

https://www.steelers.com/news/art-rooney-ii-on-nfl-s-new-anthem-policy

Art Rooney II on NFL's new Anthem policy

I think we attempted to strike a balance between respecting the rights of a player not to be forced to stand for the anthem, on one hand, while acknowledging the vast majority of our fans who attend or watch our games don’t come to see a political protest,” said Rooney.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this statement.

[Steelafan77]

What's funny is the only people that have issue with this are players. Why? Everyone else believes this to be a fair resolve. The players need to understand they can not use the NFL for an awareness platform without the consent of the NFL. In other words protest on your own time in your own clothing not on national television in an NFL uniform. That's all the NFL is saying. I know Many Military Veterans that won't watch even highlights on sports channels because they refuse to support an anti-Flag/American establishment [NFL] which these players have created. I realize these players don't really see it as a problem because they're still getting paid. Should viewership fall beyond a certain level they'll have to realize it then. They won't have a fucking job anymore. Selfish and inconsiderate. Demonstrate your leadership by leading through example. That wasn't a good example. /rant

[Donnie Brasco]

What's funny is the only people that have issue with this are players. Why? Everyone else believes this to be a fair resolve. The players need to understand they can not use the NFL for an awareness platform without the consent of the NFL. In other words protest on your own time in your own clothing not on national television in an NFL uniform. That's all the NFL is saying. I know Many Military Veterans that won't watch even highlights on sports channels because they refuse to support an anti-Flag/American establishment [NFL] which these players have created. I realize these players don't really see it as a problem because they're still getting paid. Should viewership fall beyond a certain level they'll have to realize it then. They won't have a fucking job anymore. Selfish and inconsiderate. Demonstrate your leadership by leading through example. That wasn't a good example. /rant

I don't know if I agree with that. People are still whining about it on FB and other social media platforms.

The NFL made the mistake of giving this situation ANY attention. Reminds me of this Simpsons episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlKao_Pox5A

And I'm still on the train of wondering what the American flag has to do with the topic of police brutality? Can someone explain that?

[Legacy User]

What's funny is the only people that have issue with this are players. Why? Everyone else believes this to be a fair resolve. The players need to understand they can not use the NFL for an awareness platform without the consent of the NFL. In other words protest on your own time in your own clothing not on national television in an NFL uniform. That's all the NFL is saying. I know Many Military Veterans that won't watch even highlights on sports channels because they refuse to support an anti-Flag/American establishment [NFL] which these players have created. I realize these players don't really see it as a problem because they're still getting paid. Should viewership fall beyond a certain level they'll have to realize it then. They won't have a fucking job anymore. Selfish and inconsiderate. Demonstrate your leadership by leading through example. That wasn't a good example. /rant

I don't know if I agree with that. People are still whining about it on FB and other social media platforms.

The NFL made the mistake of giving this situation ANY attention. Reminds me of this Simpsons episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlKao_Pox5A

And I'm still on the train of wondering what the American flag has to do with the topic of police brutality? Can someone explain that?

Isn’t it just an easy occasion to draw attention to a grievance? I don’t see the puzzlement.

As for pissed off vets, I hope they never find out that there is a giant population of folks who can’t be bothered to rise and they aren’t even protesting anything. Which is much worse, IMO.

I blame the NFL first and foremost for deciding to become a propaganda wing of the military. Given the strong reaction to all this from Joe Blow writ large, I’d say that bit of social engineering on the part of the military has gone off beautifully!

[Nick79]

Lord this never ends

Do what I do..... DON'T CARE!

I DVR every game, so I can fast forward past the pre game CRAP like the anthem and all the stupid ceremonies and go straight to the kickoff, I'm there for the game, not to "honor the troops", the troops have nothing to do with football.

I have the real solution, here it is, DON'T PLAY THE ANTHEM AT SPORTS EVENTS AT ALL! Why do we need it? Do we do the anthem before a movie? A play? A concert? A dance recital? A beauty pageant? I don't think so, so why do we force it into sports? We don't need it, period. IT'S JUST ENTERTAINMENT, it's the same as going to a movie, just play the game and forget all the unneeded nonsense that has nothing to do with the reason we show up there.

[Kodiak]

What's funny is the only people that have issue with this are players. Why? Everyone else believes this to be a fair resolve. The players need to understand they can not use the NFL for an awareness platform without the consent of the NFL.

It sort of refutes the meme that "they're not disrepecting the flag!!!" when given the choice of standing or protesting elsewhere they....

[jebrick]

An article comparing the NBA to the NFL ( in light of Steve Kerr's comments).

some highlights

Ahead of his team’s Game 5 matchup with the Rockets tonight, Warriors coach Steve Kerr took time to blast the NFL for its new rule banning players from kneeling during the national anthem. Kerr called the policy, which compels all NFL players to stand for the anthem or stay in the locker room while it’s played, “typical of the NFL,” and said the league was “playing to their fanbase, basically just trying to use the anthem as fake patriotism ... It’s idiotic.”

The easy smartass response to these otherwise correct comments is, “Wait until Kerr hears about the NBA’s anthem policy.” And that’s not entirely uncalled for. While the NFL rule is new, and a shameless reaction to right-wingers’ criticism directed at the players who have protested racism and police brutality in America by kneeling, the NBA has long held a similar rule requiring players to stand. Even if that rule wasn’t conceived as a hostile rebuke to peaceful protests, it’s still difficult for anyone in the NBA to take the moral high ground as long as it exists.

One could argue that the only way that NFL players could get their message on racism heard is to kneel, while NBA players enjoy multiple varied opportunities to speak their minds, which makes the anthem rule less relevant. The Golden State Warriors shut down a trip to the White House after winning their 2017 championship. LeBron James seems to enjoy calling Trump a “bum.” Coaches speak more critically of the U.S. than a lot of Democratic politicians. In a follow-up question to his statement today, Kerr noted how comfortable he was with the high-ranking officials in the NBA’s hierarchy, who haven’t disciplined him for the same comments that formed the basis of Abdul-Rauf’s protest because Kerr’s making them away from the court:

“Adam and his leadership, I do feel like we’re partners,” Kerr said. “Players, coaches, management, the league’s management — I do feel like we’re all partners.”

But one part of Kerr’s comments still comes off a bit strange—when he says, “I’m proud to be in a league that understands patriotism in America is about free speech and peacefully protesting.” If that’s the case, why would the league send a memo warning teams not to protest during the anthem at the start of this season? Why would the NBA appear to be just as worried about kneeling players as the NFL? The obvious answer is that the league is a huge business, not an organization dedicated to social justice, and big business falls short of nobility on a regular basis.

[Donnie Brasco]

Isn’t it just an easy occasion to draw attention to a grievance? I don’t see the puzzlement.

As for pissed off vets, I hope they never find out that there is a giant population of folks who can’t be bothered to rise and they aren’t even protesting anything. Which is much worse, IMO.

I blame the NFL first and foremost for deciding to become a propaganda wing of the military. Given the strong reaction to all this from Joe Blow writ large, I’d say that bit of social engineering on the part of the military has gone off beautifully!

So you're ok with people just drawing attention to an issue and not taking any action to affect change?

Agree with your military propaganda comment though. As always...follow the $$ and the NFL gets a big check for the pomp and circumstance of the military events which take place in these stadiums

[Legacy User]

Isn’t it just an easy occasion to draw attention to a grievance? I don’t see the puzzlement.

As for pissed off vets, I hope they never find out that there is a giant population of folks who can’t be bothered to rise and they aren’t even protesting anything. Which is much worse, IMO.

I blame the NFL first and foremost for deciding to become a propaganda wing of the military. Given the strong reaction to all this from Joe Blow writ large, I’d say that bit of social engineering on the part of the military has gone off beautifully!

So you're ok with people just drawing attention to an issue and not taking any action to affect change?

Agree with your military propaganda comment though. As always...follow the $$ and the NFL gets a big check for the pomp and circumstance of the military events which take place in these stadiums

Donnie, I was only responding to the wonder over what the flag has to do with issue being protested. I favor efficacy over symbolism. It's like the school walkout over gun legislation. If students want to effect change, they need to mobilize and form a lobbying agenda. Walking out of class does nothing.

[franco32]

As I sit here in NYC today, I see people thriving. Members of the LGBT community have amazing jobs, incredible advancement, and boundless opportunity. In fact, in many sectors like art and fashion, they are PREFERRED and straight individuals are clearly discriminated against on a regular basis. No one is being rounded up by the Trump machine. No one is cowering in fear. Blacks and Hispanics are thriving in ways I haven't seen in a long time (despite the terrible city and state leadership here).

Black unemployment is at an all-time low. Latino unemployment is tied for an all-time low. Those are results. You want to help minorities get out of the cycle of poverty, crime, and lack of education? Allow them to work. Flowery teleprompter speeches by our previous President did nothing. In fact, the pandering divided the country even more.

I honestly struggle to understand why so many people can't see through the rhetoric and propaganda. Think about it. The level of melanin in your skin is the all-encompassing and determining factor in how liberals view the world. Martin Luther King would be DISGUSTED at today's identity politics. The whole smokescreen about "equality" is nothing more than a tool used by members of society to try to acquire power and defeat their opponents.

True equality will never be reached. There will always be winners and losers in our economy. The only way to achieve some social mobility is capital investment, opportunity, and jobs. Funny thing is...that orange guy on Pennsylvania avenue is actually taking action that is helping these communities. Words vs Deeds. Oh, the irony.

[Legacy User]

I'm A Disabled Vet and McCain had done NOTHING for us. His state had all then Vets dying waiting to be treated and he didn't do A DAMN thing to help. He pulls the POW card when it benefits him. He doesn't fight for Vets while he's in DC. I've been fighting VA for 6 years to get my Disabled Benefits. What has McCain done to help us Vets get our benefits quicker, not a DAMN thing. I can't Stand him and can't wait until he's gone.

Hope your disability is manageable.

I’m a vet myself. USMC. Fortunately not disabled nor suffer from any ill effects.

My dad is 100% disabled Vietnam vet. He’s had an up hill battle with the VA for decades.

Maybe someday people will get their wish and we will all have the pleasure of having to navigate gubmint “healthcare”...

Yeah my disability is manageable but some days gets really bad. I am at 60% right now but fighting for 100%. My Appeal is in DC right now and I should hear something soon.. My RT Knee is shot and I need a knee replacement but since I'm 50 they won't perform the procedure as they say I'm too young. Yet my knee pops in & out all day long and is constantly swollen and painful.

[Nick79]

So you're ok with people just drawing attention to an issue and not taking any action to affect change?

Easier said than done, to really effect change in this country, you'd probably have to throw out the Democrats...

...and the Republicans, kill the Wall Street puppet duopoly and elect enough people unaffiliated with the establishment wings of either of those two parties, to take money out of politics, you have to make it so that corporations aren't people and money is not speech.

Until then, whoever donates the most buys the policy they want.

[Legacy User]

As I sit here in NYC today, I see people thriving. Members of the LGBT community have amazing jobs, incredible advancement, and boundless opportunity. In fact, in many sectors like art and fashion, they are PREFERRED and straight individuals are clearly discriminated against on a regular basis. No one is being rounded up by the Trump machine. No one is cowering in fear. Blacks and Hispanics are thriving in ways I haven't seen in a long time (despite the terrible city and state leadership here).

Black unemployment is at an all-time low. Latino unemployment is tied for an all-time low. Those are results. You want to help minorities get out of the cycle of poverty, crime, and lack of education? Allow them to work. Flowery teleprompter speeches by our previous President did nothing. In fact, the pandering divided the country even more.

I honestly struggle to understand why so many people can't see through the rhetoric and propaganda. Think about it. The level of melanin in your skin is the all-encompassing and determining factor in how liberals view the world. Martin Luther King would be DISGUSTED at today's identity politics. The whole smokescreen about "equality" is nothing more than a tool used by members of society to try to acquire power and defeat their opponents.

True equality will never be reached. There will always be winners and losers in our economy. The only way to achieve some social mobility is capital investment, opportunity, and jobs. Funny thing is...that orange guy on Pennsylvania avenue is actually taking action that is helping these communities. Words vs Deeds. Oh, the irony.

Take a trip to Vider, Texas and see if it's still super.

In large cosmopolitan cities, things are better, no doubt. Outside of major cities...ehhhh not so sure...

[Legacy User]

I'm A Disabled Vet and McCain had done NOTHING for us. His state had all then Vets dying waiting to be treated and he didn't do A DAMN thing to help. He pulls the POW card when it benefits him. He doesn't fight for Vets while he's in DC. I've been fighting VA for 6 years to get my Disabled Benefits. What has McCain done to help us Vets get our benefits quicker, not a DAMN thing. I can't Stand him and can't wait until he's gone.

First, thank you for your service and, like 95 said, I hope your disability is not a great hinderance on your life.

Second, do you think our president gives a flying fuck about anyone, let alone veterans?

I know I'm breaking the biggest rule on this site (god knows the mods don't care about racist posts, but politics, holy shit), but I'm so fucking sick of this garbage.

Thx. I believe Trump cares more about Vets than Obama ever did. That guy Hated Vets and the Military all together. Under Obama Military personnel did not see a raise for a few years. Obama just couldn't stand Vets and it showed.

[Pabst]

As I sit here in NYC today, I see people thriving. Members of the LGBT community have amazing jobs, incredible advancement, and boundless opportunity. In fact, in many sectors like art and fashion, they are PREFERRED and straight individuals are clearly discriminated against on a regular basis. No one is being rounded up by the Trump machine. No one is cowering in fear. Blacks and Hispanics are thriving in ways I haven't seen in a long time (despite the terrible city and state leadership here).

Black unemployment is at an all-time low. Latino unemployment is tied for an all-time low. Those are results. You want to help minorities get out of the cycle of poverty, crime, and lack of education? Allow them to work. Flowery teleprompter speeches by our previous President did nothing. In fact, the pandering divided the country even more.

I honestly struggle to understand why so many people can't see through the rhetoric and propaganda. Think about it. The level of melanin in your skin is the all-encompassing and determining factor in how liberals view the world. Martin Luther King would be DISGUSTED at today's identity politics. The whole smokescreen about "equality" is nothing more than a tool used by members of society to try to acquire power and defeat their opponents.

True equality will never be reached. There will always be winners and losers in our economy. The only way to achieve some social mobility is capital investment, opportunity, and jobs. Funny thing is...that orange guy on Pennsylvania avenue is actually taking action that is helping these communities. Words vs Deeds. Oh, the irony.

Take a trip to Vider, Texas and see if it's still super.

In large cosmopolitan cities, things are better, no doubt. Outside of major cities...ehhhh not so sure...

I recently attended a roller derby match put on in a town with ~1,000 people. Half the team had butch haircuts....draw your own conclusions. The nearest major city is 2 hours away.

There's also a (relatively) new gay/lesbian club in my wife's home town - population 20,000, and well over an hour from the nearest major city. They happened to be meeting at a bar we were attending last time we were in town.


This country isn't nearly as divided as the news would have you believe.

[jeemie]

As I sit here in NYC today, I see people thriving. Members of the LGBT community have amazing jobs, incredible advancement, and boundless opportunity. In fact, in many sectors like art and fashion, they are PREFERRED and straight individuals are clearly discriminated against on a regular basis. No one is being rounded up by the Trump machine. No one is cowering in fear. Blacks and Hispanics are thriving in ways I haven't seen in a long time (despite the terrible city and state leadership here).

Black unemployment is at an all-time low. Latino unemployment is tied for an all-time low. Those are results. You want to help minorities get out of the cycle of poverty, crime, and lack of education? Allow them to work. Flowery teleprompter speeches by our previous President did nothing. In fact, the pandering divided the country even more.

I honestly struggle to understand why so many people can't see through the rhetoric and propaganda. Think about it. The level of melanin in your skin is the all-encompassing and determining factor in how liberals view the world. Martin Luther King would be DISGUSTED at today's identity politics. The whole smokescreen about "equality" is nothing more than a tool used by members of society to try to acquire power and defeat their opponents.

True equality will never be reached. There will always be winners and losers in our economy. The only way to achieve some social mobility is capital investment, opportunity, and jobs. Funny thing is...that orange guy on Pennsylvania avenue is actually taking action that is helping these communities. Words vs Deeds. Oh, the irony.

Speaking of not being able to see through the rhetoric...

Everything you mentioned about a thriving economy began BEFORE “the orange guy on Pennsylvania Avenue” took office, and is not really a result of any of those few policies he has managed to get in place.

We give far too much credit...and blame...about the economy to the guy sitting behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office.

[Donnie Brasco]

As I sit here in NYC today, I see people thriving. Members of the LGBT community have amazing jobs, incredible advancement, and boundless opportunity. In fact, in many sectors like art and fashion, they are PREFERRED and straight individuals are clearly discriminated against on a regular basis. No one is being rounded up by the Trump machine. No one is cowering in fear. Blacks and Hispanics are thriving in ways I haven't seen in a long time (despite the terrible city and state leadership here).

Black unemployment is at an all-time low. Latino unemployment is tied for an all-time low. Those are results. You want to help minorities get out of the cycle of poverty, crime, and lack of education? Allow them to work. Flowery teleprompter speeches by our previous President did nothing. In fact, the pandering divided the country even more.

I honestly struggle to understand why so many people can't see through the rhetoric and propaganda. Think about it. The level of melanin in your skin is the all-encompassing and determining factor in how liberals view the world. Martin Luther King would be DISGUSTED at today's identity politics. The whole smokescreen about "equality" is nothing more than a tool used by members of society to try to acquire power and defeat their opponents.

True equality will never be reached. There will always be winners and losers in our economy. The only way to achieve some social mobility is capital investment, opportunity, and jobs. Funny thing is...that orange guy on Pennsylvania avenue is actually taking action that is helping these communities. Words vs Deeds. Oh, the irony.

Everything you mentioned about a thriving economy began BEFORE “the orange guy on Pennsylvania Avenue” took office, and is not really a result of any of those few policies he has managed to get in place.

We give far too much credit...and blame...about the economy to the guy sitting behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office.

DING DING DING- we have a winner.

I didn't like the previous POTUS for sure. But I know better than to attribute XY or Z solely to him.

POTUS has influence for sure, but I always laugh at such tropes as "Unemployment was X% during Joe Blow's tenure and GDP was __ so he's the best/worst (pick one) Prez ever"

[Donnie Brasco]

Isn’t it just an easy occasion to draw attention to a grievance? I don’t see the puzzlement.

As for pissed off vets, I hope they never find out that there is a giant population of folks who can’t be bothered to rise and they aren’t even protesting anything. Which is much worse, IMO.

I blame the NFL first and foremost for deciding to become a propaganda wing of the military. Given the strong reaction to all this from Joe Blow writ large, I’d say that bit of social engineering on the part of the military has gone off beautifully!

So you're ok with people just drawing attention to an issue and not taking any action to affect change?

Agree with your military propaganda comment though. As always...follow the $$ and the NFL gets a big check for the pomp and circumstance of the military events which take place in these stadiums

Donnie, I was only responding to the wonder over what the flag has to do with issue being protested. I favor efficacy over symbolism. It's like the school walkout over gun legislation. If students want to effect change, they need to mobilize and form a lobbying agenda. Walking out of class does nothing.

Are you calling them attention grabbers?
Do you feel it's a lazy approach to a complex issue?

Curious to your thoughts on the players' mindsets here.
Why not turn your back to the media when answering their questions as a sign of disrespect towards that institution?
Why not have a group of your teammates march into the owners' office and demand he coordinate a meeting with the local police chief?

[955876]

I’m just saying, man, any time politics are brought up, you seem to be involved with threads that go on, and on, and on. It’s as if a trigger is pulled and you show up!

In other news, I’ll be in your great state next week for a trip starting in San Fran, to Yosemite, and winding up in Santa Barbara. Thank god the POTUS was unable to deliver on his promised wall — I am looking forward to some bomb ass tacos in SoCal!

You know, you are right about the first part. It’s the off-season and nothing really to chat bout in regards to the team. So yes, I see something good chance I might respond. I don’t mind debate. Enjoy it actually.

But you also proved my point and something I’ve been saying all along which is I don’t START the political talk. It’s always already ongoing and I comment. The difference however is that my comment runs counter to what many here think and believe. So my response gets me flamed for political talk all the while the poster that started it gets a pass.

Happens all the time with Cor-Ten. He will out of the blue find some way to bring capitalism imo a thread and then bash it. I’ll reapond and then here comes someone like Poltargyst whining that I’m talking politics again.

Rinse repeat.

I could refrain. But then, so could those that do it and then get pissy when I respond.

To me, person that starts it is more responsible. I will try to do a better job of not jumping in when someone else is breaking the rules.

As to the second part of your post. Enjoy your trip. If you like sushi there is a fantastic hole in the wall type place in SF that has some of the best sushi in the city. Very reasonably priced too. They do a tempura lobster tail appetizer for like $19. Only beer, wine, and sake though so if you want cocktails it’s not the place. Called Ebisu. I think there is two locations. I go to the one on 9th street in the Sunset District. Down the hill from UCSF Med Center.

Not best time of year to do Yosemite but never know.

And you’d still be able o get a great taco even with the wall...

[franco32]

As I sit here in NYC today, I see people thriving. Members of the LGBT community have amazing jobs, incredible advancement, and boundless opportunity. In fact, in many sectors like art and fashion, they are PREFERRED and straight individuals are clearly discriminated against on a regular basis. No one is being rounded up by the Trump machine. No one is cowering in fear. Blacks and Hispanics are thriving in ways I haven't seen in a long time (despite the terrible city and state leadership here).

Black unemployment is at an all-time low. Latino unemployment is tied for an all-time low. Those are results. You want to help minorities get out of the cycle of poverty, crime, and lack of education? Allow them to work. Flowery teleprompter speeches by our previous President did nothing. In fact, the pandering divided the country even more.

I honestly struggle to understand why so many people can't see through the rhetoric and propaganda. Think about it. The level of melanin in your skin is the all-encompassing and determining factor in how liberals view the world. Martin Luther King would be DISGUSTED at today's identity politics. The whole smokescreen about "equality" is nothing more than a tool used by members of society to try to acquire power and defeat their opponents.

True equality will never be reached. There will always be winners and losers in our economy. The only way to achieve some social mobility is capital investment, opportunity, and jobs. Funny thing is...that orange guy on Pennsylvania avenue is actually taking action that is helping these communities. Words vs Deeds. Oh, the irony.

Speaking of not being able to see through the rhetoric...

Everything you mentioned about a thriving economy began BEFORE “the orange guy on Pennsylvania Avenue” took office, and is not really a result of any of those few policies he has managed to get in place.

We give far too much credit...and blame...about the economy to the guy sitting behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office.

Um no. Trump immediately began rolling back silly Obama era regs...many of them at the DOL and NLRB level. Businesses like ours immediately responded to that with more investment and more hiring. It's no coincidence that business confidence has been shooting up since he took office. Business investment also shot up last year with spending on capital goods increasing over 6%. The tax reform helped a ton too. We belong to one of the country's biggest business federations. Our sector is responsible for over 10% of the entire American workforce. We have conference calls on a regular basis. Every single contributor on those calls is constantly pointing to the deregulation and tax reform as driving their business and investment decisions.

This is basic economics. You really shouldn't let partisanship get in the way.

[955876]

Speaking of not being able to see through the rhetoric...

Everything you mentioned about a thriving economy began BEFORE “the orange guy on Pennsylvania Avenue” took office, and is not really a result of any of those few policies he has managed to get in place.

We give far too much credit...and blame...about the economy to the guy sitting behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office.

While I do agree with your last sentence, the rest of it has many holes.

Yes the economy is cyclical and the actions of one are often not seen until another is sitting in office.

However, the economic numbers under Obama were pretty woeful. ESPECIALLY considering he stepped into office just as the economy and stock market were close to bottoming. And that “dip” was one of the most severe recessions this country had had for quite some time.

Economy growth is almost always higher coming off a recession. The deeper the recession the bigger the bounce back in most cases.

Yet that didn’t happen. And didn’t happen despite MASSIVE government stimulus. Now that stimulus and artificially low rates did accomplish something and that was huge stock market rebound that’s been taking place since 2009.

But that was the Feds doing not Obama. Further, the regularity environment over those years was not business friendly. And I’m being kind using those terms. So while the economy recovered, it really did so at an anemic pace.

And by Nov. 2016 equity markets were already in the second longest bull market in history and running out of steam.

So no, that 20-30% market surge we have gotten was not a result of previous policy. Markets took off the day after the election and 2017 was literally one of the least if not the least volatile year in equity markets in history. Matter of fact, the S&P 500 only moved up or down 1% or greater something like 7 or 8 trading days ALL YEAR. Yet still had approx 20% return.

By comparison, we’ve had 32 such moves this year already and like 33 in 2016.

That low volatility last year was a result of confidence due to the pro-business environment.

And wouldn’t you know it, the Econ data is stronger too.

So if it was a result of Obama’s, why did the economyvwait till the oranage man was sitting to show stringer signs of life?

Respectfully Jeemie, I have a degree in economics and have dealt with matter professionally for the past 19 years. I could spend the day tearing apart your post but I have a rather busy day in the office and well, people don’t like it much when I do.

So I agree in theory with your last sentence but that doesn’t nearly apply to what has been taking place since 11/08/2016

[955876]

Quicker on the draw Franco....

[R_S]

I just found a UBS (the bank) study which surveyed 2,000 people and 50% said the anthem protests were the main reason they stopped watching football. Wow. I know that is a small sample, but clearly the owners are alarmed by it. I don't care what color of skin the owners have. The rich "white dude" argument is so tired and silly at this point. They are worried about the color green...and rightfully so...it is a business.

I personally think the increased politicization of sports in general is hurting all major sports. ESPN used to be a feeder for driving high sports ratings and interest. Many people, like myself included, were tuning in only to be lectured to about the social injustices and how we may have contributed to them. Men were and are being constantly lectured about female empowerment and how men drive the ills of society. So, people (mostly men) started to tune out in droves. Surprise! That in turn has an affect on the overall interest level in watching sports.

I don't want politics in my sports. Most people don't, but certain networks can't help themselves...and they will continue to the pay the price.

Here's an idea for the players who want to protest - do it on your own fucking time. Go down to the police station, city hall or the fucking Capitol or White House for that matter and protest all you want. You know what? You do it that way, you'll for sure get your name in the media and lend your name to the cause. Don't do it in the workplace, whatever the protest may be. If I did any kind of political protest on my work premises especially during working hours, I'd be tossed out on my ass quicker than shit.

Franco - you are absolutely correct with this post.

They're fucking silently kneeling during the national anthem, not holding picket signs. This is all so fucking stupid.

And it's perpetuated by the people who are spitting on John McCain's legacy. Saying he wasn't a hero because he was captured, calling him "Singing" John McCain because of unfounded claims of his breaking under torture, saying his opinion/vote doesn't matter because he'll be dead soon, etc. He is one of the greatest living Americans, a great patriot and public servant, and this is how he's being treated in his final months. All by someone who dodged the draft because of "bone spurs." It's disgusting.

The false-patriotism and hypocrisy is fucking sickening. Support our troops! (Except when it comes to healthcare, mental healthcare, providing support for them as they enter society, providing adequate body armor... the list goes on and on).

Also, when you're an asshole, I know it sucks to be told to stop being an asshole. I feel for you.

You're all butthurt, triggered snowflakes.

Haha, Now dems are McCain fans all of the sudden. When he was running for president he was called a racist by the left. (like every conservative candidate).

[Legacy User]

As I sit here in NYC today, I see people thriving. Members of the LGBT community have amazing jobs, incredible advancement, and boundless opportunity. In fact, in many sectors like art and fashion, they are PREFERRED and straight individuals are clearly discriminated against on a regular basis. No one is being rounded up by the Trump machine. No one is cowering in fear. Blacks and Hispanics are thriving in ways I haven't seen in a long time (despite the terrible city and state leadership here).

Black unemployment is at an all-time low. Latino unemployment is tied for an all-time low. Those are results. You want to help minorities get out of the cycle of poverty, crime, and lack of education? Allow them to work. Flowery teleprompter speeches by our previous President did nothing. In fact, the pandering divided the country even more.

I honestly struggle to understand why so many people can't see through the rhetoric and propaganda. Think about it. The level of melanin in your skin is the all-encompassing and determining factor in how liberals view the world. Martin Luther King would be DISGUSTED at today's identity politics. The whole smokescreen about "equality" is nothing more than a tool used by members of society to try to acquire power and defeat their opponents.

True equality will never be reached. There will always be winners and losers in our economy. The only way to achieve some social mobility is capital investment, opportunity, and jobs. Funny thing is...that orange guy on Pennsylvania avenue is actually taking action that is helping these communities. Words vs Deeds. Oh, the irony.

Take a trip to Vider, Texas and see if it's still super.

In large cosmopolitan cities, things are better, no doubt. Outside of major cities...ehhhh not so sure...

I recently attended a roller derby match put on in a town with ~1,000 people. Half the team had butch haircuts....draw your own conclusions. The nearest major city is 2 hours away.

There's also a (relatively) new gay/lesbian club in my wife's home town - population 20,000, and well over an hour from the nearest major city. They happened to be meeting at a bar we were attending last time we were in town.


This country isn't nearly as divided as the news would have you believe.

News? I’m drawing on first hand experience. Thanks for telling me how it is, though.

The idea that a roller derby or existence of a gay bar means things are swell is interesting.

I’m no fan of identity politics and I agree we are not so divided as cable political talk shows would suggest.

[Pabst]

News? I’m drawing on first hand experience. Thanks for telling me how it is, though.

The idea that a roller derby or existence of a gay bar means things are swell is interesting.

I’m no fan of identity politics and I agree we are not so divided as cable political talk shows would suggest.

Well pardon me for drawing on my own first hand experience in seeing that people are getting along fine. You just said 'i'm not so sure' things are better outside of major cities. I apologize if I've contradicted your world view.

[Pabst]

I had completely forgotten about this:

One day after the National Basketball Association drew a firm line, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf of the Denver Nuggets showed no signs of backing down from his refusal to stand during the national anthem based on his personal and religious beliefs.

On Tuesday, the league suspended Abdul-Rauf indefinitely and without pay. Yesterday, a debate swirled around the clash between the rules and authority of a private organization and the civil liberties and religious freedom reserved for individuals.

Abdul-Rauf issued a statement yesterday through one of his representatives, which read in part: "My intentions were not in any way to be disrespectful to those who regard the national anthem as a sacred ceremony. I am an African-American, a citizen of this country and one who respects freedom of speech and freedom of expression."

The N.B.A. would offer no additional comment on the matter other than reiterating the statement issued from Deputy Commissioner Russ Granik's office on Tuesday, which read, "The N.B.A.'s rule on this point is very clear and all our rules apply equally to all players."

At issue is a one-sentence clause in the league's rule book that states, "Players, coaches and trainers are to stand and line up in a dignified posture along the sidelines or the foul line during the playing of the national anthem."

The issue did not become a matter of public discussion until last week, when radio talk shows and then newspapers picked up the story. The dispute came to a head at a Tuesday morning shoot-around in Denver, when Abdul-Rauf said the United States flag is a "symbol of oppression, of tyranny."

"This country has a long history of that," he said. "I don't think you can argue the facts. You can't be for God and for oppression. It's clear in the Koran, Islam is the only way. I don't criticize those who stand, so don't criticize me for sitting. I won't waver from my decision."

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/03/14/sports/pro-basketball-abdul-rauf-vows-not-to-back-down-from-nba.html