Bell a no-show

[Donnie Brasco]

Why would it surprise you?

Because minus Bell, the current RB committee of Conner, JS, and whomever is not scaring anyone.

Plus, if the coaches are too stupid to get the most out of Bell, what leads us to believe they will be any smarter in getting as much or more from the committee that has less talent?

Does Bell scare you? He's not a homerun threat anymore where he can strike from 40 yards; the stats bear this out

The RB in the game just has to be EFFECTIVE. No argument from me that Bell certainly is. The other RB's can be just as effective...getting 4 yards a carry is easily attainable with this offensive line.

If I'm a DC, my concern is AB and JuJu (and Vance when healthy). Belicheck proved that the best way to limit the Steelers' offense is to allow Bell to get his chunks of yards in the middle of the field and force the Steelers to be patient.

[Legacy User]

Has bell even signed his tag contact? Whew. Things could get sketchy.

It’s hard not to say at this point bell is not really part of the opener. If he shows up at all I see them giving Conner the start just based on practicalities of playbook conditioning etc.

[Legacy User]

Why would it surprise you?

Because minus Bell, the current RB committee of Conner, JS, and whomever is not scaring anyone.

Plus, if the coaches are too stupid to get the most out of Bell, what leads us to believe they will be any smarter in getting as much or more from the committee that has less talent?

Does Bell scare you? He's not a homerun threat anymore where he can strike from 40 yards; the stats bear this out

The RB in the game just has to be EFFECTIVE. No argument from me that Bell certainly is. The other RB's can be just as effective...getting 4 yards a carry is easily attainable with this offensive line.

If I'm a DC, my concern is AB and JuJu (and Vance when healthy). Belicheck proved that the best way to limit the Steelers' offense is to allow Bell to get his chunks of yards in the middle of the field and force the Steelers to be patient.

I do not find this line of argumentation at all persuasive because Bell was NEVER a homerun threat. That is never what made him scary. And yet he has indeed been scary.

I see a lot of rationalization about Bell on the board.

EDIT: And Bell has never been the cause of offensive underperformance. That's on coaching or Ben for giving him the damn ball too much.

[Havoc]

Because minus Bell, the current RB committee of Conner, JS, and whomever is not scaring anyone.

Plus, if the coaches are too stupid to get the most out of Bell, what leads us to believe they will be any smarter in getting as much or more from the committee that has less talent?

Does Bell scare you? He's not a homerun threat anymore where he can strike from 40 yards; the stats bear this out

The RB in the game just has to be EFFECTIVE. No argument from me that Bell certainly is. The other RB's can be just as effective...getting 4 yards a carry is easily attainable with this offensive line.

If I'm a DC, my concern is AB and JuJu (and Vance when healthy). Belicheck proved that the best way to limit the Steelers' offense is to allow Bell to get his chunks of yards in the middle of the field and force the Steelers to be patient.

I do not find this line of argumentation at all persuasive because Bell was NEVER a homerun threat. That is never what made him scary. And yet he has indeed been scary.

I see a lot of rationalization about Bell on the board.

It's about what lights up the scoreboard in the first half of games, Lit. I pulled up the data on our stretch of games a few years ago during the off season. I might still have it laying around. Fact is, we averaged over 30 per game during that stretch. Fact is, we ran the offense differently during the first half of those games than we usually do with Bell on the field.

Research what Belichick did in the SB as DC of the Giants. As great as the Bills running game was, it was the Bills high flying passing game that Belichick feared.

Teams are begging us to go run run pass all first half. What they don't want is our dynamic vertical passing game to get cranked up and bury them in the first half of games.

[Legacy User]

Teams are begging us to go run run pass all first half. What they don't want is for our dynamic vertical passing game to get cranked up and bury them in the first half of games.

I agree with all of this. But that is no reason to be happy about losing Bell. It just means the coaches have been / are dumbfuks!

[Havoc]

Teams are begging us to go run run pass all first half. What they don't want is for our dynamic vertical passing game to get cranked up and bury them in the first half of games.

I agree with all of this. But that is no reason to be happy about losing Bell. It just means the coaches have been / are dumbfuks!

Agree it's a coaching problem, not a Bell problem.

[jeemie]

Why would it surprise you?

Because minus Bell, the current RB committee of Conner, JS, and whomever is not scaring anyone.

Plus, if the coaches are too stupid to get the most out of Bell, what leads us to believe they will be any smarter in getting as much or more from the committee that has less talent?

Which running back in the Eagles’ rotation scared you?

Hell, which of any of their players on O scared you after Carson Wentz got injured?

Yet they lit up the both Vikings and the Pats. Why?

Scheme and coaching up...that’s why.

Yes I think Mike Tomlin and the coaching staff get lazy and uninventive when they have so many star players to rely on.

Paradoxically they actually do better when they don’t have all these guys to rely on.

[Legacy User]

Why would it surprise you?

Because minus Bell, the current RB committee of Conner, JS, and whomever is not scaring anyone.

Plus, if the coaches are too stupid to get the most out of Bell, what leads us to believe they will be any smarter in getting as much or more from the committee that has less talent?

Which running back in the Eagles’ rotation scared you?

Hell, which of any of their players on O scared you after Carson Wentz got injured?

Yet they lit up the both Vikings and the Pats. Why?

Scheme and coaching up...that’s why.

Yes I think Mike Tomlin and the coaching staff get lazy and uninventive when they have so many star players to rely on.

Paradoxically they actually do better when they don’t have all these guys to rely on.

Which of their running backs scared me? Watching them play, all of them.

Again, it would be great to have kept Bell AND have used him properly with better coaching.

This is why the team has not been hoisting super bowls: the coaching is not utilizing the AMAZING talent it has had at its disposal in the maximal manner.

Your citation of coaching does not weaken my position on Bell, it just makes the coaches look even more incompetent.

Pray the Eagles do not end up with a back like Bell. Good lord.

This team can't get out of it's own way.

[Donnie Brasco]

I do not find this line of argumentation at all persuasive because Bell was NEVER a homerun threat. That is never what made him scary. And yet he has indeed been scary.

I see a lot of rationalization about Bell on the board.

EDIT: And Bell has never been the cause of offensive underperformance. That's on coaching or Ben for giving him the damn ball too much.

As discussed previously, let's not confuse the 2 issues here:

1) Bell's value to the Steelers
2) The coaching

I'm focused on #1. RB's are a commodity. Even the great ones like Bell and Gurley can be neutralized- that is how the game is played today. 15 years ago there is no way anyone makes that statement

How exactly does Bell scare you as a DC? He's not elusive anymore. He's not a threat to score anywhere on the field.
How does a great RB take over a game? Very difficult to do

[Legacy User]

I do not find this line of argumentation at all persuasive because Bell was NEVER a homerun threat. That is never what made him scary. And yet he has indeed been scary.

I see a lot of rationalization about Bell on the board.

EDIT: And Bell has never been the cause of offensive underperformance. That's on coaching or Ben for giving him the damn ball too much.

As discussed previously, let's not confuse the 2 issues here:

1) Bell's value to the Steelers
2) The coaching

I'm focused on #1. RB's are a commodity. Even the great ones like Bell and Gurley can be neutralized- that is how the game is played today. 15 years ago there is no way anyone makes that statement

How exactly does Bell scare you as a DC? He's not elusive anymore. He's not a threat to score anywhere on the field.
How does a great RB take over a game? Very difficult to do

How exactly does Bell scare you as a DC?
How does a great RB take over a game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRGPkznjB6A

Now maybe your argument is that these days are over. But you can't know that. We have one helluva line.

Now, the idea that your 1) and 2) can be separated is absurd. The value of anything can be ruined if it is combined with idiocy.

[DP39]

I do not find this line of argumentation at all persuasive because Bell was NEVER a homerun threat. That is never what made him scary. And yet he has indeed been scary.

I see a lot of rationalization about Bell on the board.

EDIT: And Bell has never been the cause of offensive underperformance. That's on coaching or Ben for giving him the damn ball too much.

As discussed previously, let's not confuse the 2 issues here:

1) Bell's value to the Steelers
2) The coaching

I'm focused on #1. RB's are a commodity. Even the great ones like Bell and Gurley can be neutralized- that is how the game is played today. 15 years ago there is no way anyone makes that statement

How exactly does Bell scare you as a DC? He's not elusive anymore. He's not a threat to score anywhere on the field.
How does a great RB take over a game? Very difficult to do

How exactly does Bell scare you as a DC?
How does a great RB take over a game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRGPkznjB6A

Now maybe your argument is that these days are over. But you can't know that. We have one helluva line.

Now, the idea that your 1) and 2) can be separated is absurd. The value of anything can be ruined if it is combined with idiocy.

Bell, isn't elusive or fast enough in the open field to scare DC's like many other backs. He's one of the best all-round backs in the league, but TG and David Johnson are better, because they can do everything Bell can PLUS be more elusive and faster. The reason the Eagles' RBs scared you was because most of them have strengths where Bell is weakest - open field elusiveness and speed.

I also agree that someone - be it Tomlin/Haley/Ben/Art2 - relies way to much on AB & Bell, while using our other talents as mostly decoys to help AB/Bell preform better. They're making even average coaches jobs' to defend us easier by doing so. Hopefully, it was all Haley, and Fichtner changes that, but my gut tells me Tomlin has his hand it a lot, because he trusts AB and Bell too much.

[Donnie Brasco]

I do not find this line of argumentation at all persuasive because Bell was NEVER a homerun threat. That is never what made him scary. And yet he has indeed been scary.

I see a lot of rationalization about Bell on the board.

EDIT: And Bell has never been the cause of offensive underperformance. That's on coaching or Ben for giving him the damn ball too much.

As discussed previously, let's not confuse the 2 issues here:

1) Bell's value to the Steelers
2) The coaching

I'm focused on #1. RB's are a commodity. Even the great ones like Bell and Gurley can be neutralized- that is how the game is played today. 15 years ago there is no way anyone makes that statement

How exactly does Bell scare you as a DC? He's not elusive anymore. He's not a threat to score anywhere on the field.
How does a great RB take over a game? Very difficult to do

How exactly does Bell scare you as a DC?
How does a great RB take over a game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRGPkznjB6A

Now maybe your argument is that these days are over. But you can't know that. We have one helluva line.

Now, the idea that your 1) and 2) can be separated is absurd. The value of anything can be ruined if it is combined with idiocy.

Did you see those holes? You or I could've ran through them

Obviously we don't have an alternate universe where you take an average back and put him in that game, but I'm guessing the league average back could crank out 115 yards on that day, MINIMUM.

[jeemie]

I do not find this line of argumentation at all persuasive because Bell was NEVER a homerun threat. That is never what made him scary. And yet he has indeed been scary.

I see a lot of rationalization about Bell on the board.

EDIT: And Bell has never been the cause of offensive underperformance. That's on coaching or Ben for giving him the damn ball too much.

As discussed previously, let's not confuse the 2 issues here:

1) Bell's value to the Steelers
2) The coaching

I'm focused on #1. RB's are a commodity. Even the great ones like Bell and Gurley can be neutralized- that is how the game is played today. 15 years ago there is no way anyone makes that statement

How exactly does Bell scare you as a DC? He's not elusive anymore. He's not a threat to score anywhere on the field.
How does a great RB take over a game? Very difficult to do

How exactly does Bell scare you as a DC?
How does a great RB take over a game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRGPkznjB6A

Now maybe your argument is that these days are over. But you can't know that. We have one helluva line.

Now, the idea that your 1) and 2) can be separated is absurd. The value of anything can be ruined if it is combined with idiocy.

For every game you show where we managed to score enough early points to put the game away, I can show you three where the game plan was exactly the same as the Miami game plan, yet opposing teams either hung around and won or made it interesting late.

The very game after that one innthe YouTube...the Chiefs’ game...being a prime case in point.

Or the goddam Pats’ game last year.

[Scunge]

Did anybody see they restructured Cam Hayward's contract, again? Took 8 million of his $9 million base salary and converted it to a bonus. That is what Bell and his agent don't understand. They look at Gurley getting his base salaries guaranteed on the 3rd day of the league year whereas the Steelers end up doing it in the preseason with their core players, time and time again, sometimes 2 and 3 times over the course of that player's contract.

In terms of Bell and his value to the team, his use, well I keep pointing out Deangelo Williams.

Here was this 32/33 year old RB with wear and tear but he was able to literally do what Bell did and even moreso, as he was able to have explosive runs and catches, even at age 32/33. I remember doing a breakdown of Williams starts in place of Bell and the offense was averaging some 29 points per game, better than Bell, which begs the question, can an offensive coordinator, a team get too enamored with a single player to the eventual detriment of the team?

I would argue yes, happens all the time.

I have often argued that we also overuse Antonio Brown, or specifically target him too much, force the ball to him too much. We have talented WRs not named Brown, JuJu and James Washington, I see no reason why this team, this offense can't have all 3 WRs end up with 1,000 yards receiving. Some will balk at that idea, say it is ludicrous, Brown needs his catches, won't be denied, blah, blah, blah.

They don't reward a Lombardi trophy to you because your stud RB has 100 catches or your WR has 2,000 yards receiving. For all of their fantasy football glory having Brown and Bell hasn't amounted to jack shit in the post-season has it?

Bell is slowing down, is becoming less and less effective. If I am a DC I WANT the Steelers to throw the ball to Bell, have him catch 100 passes. Those 2 TD catches were impressive last season, that woeful 7 something yards per catch, again, equally impressive A DC would rather you waste time throwing dinks and dunks to Bell instead of putting the ball in JuJu hands, or McDonald's or Washington.

I always wanted us to have a multi-dimensional RB that could rush for 1,000 yards and catch 50-60 passes in a season, but with Bell it has been taken to excess. All he cares about is his touches, all he cares about is his combined yards per game, meanwhile where are the touchdowns? Where are the explosive plays over 20+ yards, 40+ yards? The truly elite RBs in the game can average 11, 12 yards per catch, to average 4-5 yards less like Bell is not impressive whatsoever.

[Havoc]

A DC would rather you waste time throwing dinks and dunks to Bell instead of putting the ball in JuJu hands, or McDonald's or Washington.

Yep. And it's a waste of a big armed franchise QB.

It was 2015 during the stretch of games DWill started and finished Oak thru Balt when we averaged 30+ ppg.

In the loss to the Ravens we reverted to attrition football. We ran the football 14 times in the first half, passed 13 times... but the last 6 plays of the half we threw the football so we really came out running the football most of the half... and we scored 3 points that first half.

[steeledge]

if the coaches are too stupid to get the most out of Bell, what leads us to believe they will be any smarter in getting as much or more from the committee that has less talent?

Stupid is an easy word to bandy about.
I prefer to refer to Tomlin and Co. as "intellectually lazy" in this instance:

They considered Bell an All-World, generational talent...
Perhaps that was justified, but recent reviews are mixed at best...
Early 2017, planning was simple (or so they thought) and they put all their offensive eggs in the Bell basket...
...but then lo and behold, Bell under-performed and the whole team suffered and scrambled for several weeks to make "plan minus-B" work...

(Aside: people wanna put the early 2017 offensive struggles on Haley, but that's also intellectually lazy IMHO.
Not that it matters at this point since he's long gone, but the buck stops with Tomlin...)

skipping ahead in the course of 2017, a few weeks after the offense started clicking, the Steelers' defensive shortcomings were exposed, and coupled with the loss of Shazier, any hopes of a deep postseason were lost as well.

It was too little, too late for them to consider and plan for what life might be like without Bell last time.
It would become "stupid" for them to repeat that mistake in 2018.

...I'll reserve judgement, for now...

[AirRescueFF]

Delete.

[Legacy User]

I always wanted us to have a multi-dimensional RB that could rush for 1,000 yards and catch 50-60 passes in a season, but with Bell it has been taken to excess. All he cares about is his touches, all he cares about is his combined yards per game, meanwhile where are the touchdowns? Where are the explosive plays over 20+ yards, 40+ yards? The truly elite RBs in the game can average 11, 12 yards per catch, to average 4-5 yards less like Bell is not impressive whatsoever.

agreed

some folks get a bit incredulous at the suggestion but i think it's perfectly reasonable to view Bell as one of the better all-around RBs in the league and a genuine talent and still suggest that the dropoff from him to RB by committee (or to a DeAngelo Williams-caliber back) is not so great as to necessitate breaking the bank to keep him around.

we're coming off a season in which Bell only just dragged himself up to 4yds per carry in the final weeks, only broke three carries for 20+ yards all year (compared to Connor doing so on back-to-back carries this preseason). he's much-ballyhooed as a route-runner but hasn't been a true dual-threat since 2014 (when he was genuinely monstrous); most of his yardage is accumulated via traditional RB dinks and dunks, with only three games with a longest reception of 20+ yards last year (compared to nine for David Johnson in his last full season).

and that's really what it comes down to: Bell's a great accumulator, but that would almost have to be the case given how much of the offense runs through him, how many touches he gets. it's hard for me to believe the average NFL running back couldn't wrack up 100+ yards per game if consistently granted 30+ carries to do so, as Bell almost always is.

[StillMadAtSlobber]

if the coaches are too stupid to get the most out of Bell, what leads us to believe they will be any smarter in getting as much or more from the committee that has less talent?

Stupid is an easy word to bandy about.
I prefer to refer to Tomlin and Co. as "intellectually lazy" in this instance:


...I'll reserve judgement, for now...

No, it's stupid. It's an insane level of stupidity. It was proven when for the second time in a row after running the wheels of Bell, he was injured. There was no backup plan, just a last minute panic signing of the ex-Texans RB and a pathetic loss to the Ravens on the post season.

It is insanely stupid to ignore the last 15 years of rules changes to open up the game and player Cowher Era ball control offense.

It is insanely stupid to make your offense predictable, yet it is something that Tomlin and Haley did, game after game.

[Legacy User]

Did anybody see they restructured Cam Hayward's contract, again? Took 8 million of his $9 million base salary and converted it to a bonus. That is what Bell and his agent don't understand. They look at Gurley getting his base salaries guaranteed on the 3rd day of the league year whereas the Steelers end up doing it in the preseason with their core players, time and time again, sometimes 2 and 3 times over the course of that player's contract.

In terms of Bell and his value to the team, his use, well I keep pointing out Deangelo Williams.

Here was this 32/33 year old RB with wear and tear but he was able to literally do what Bell did and even moreso, as he was able to have explosive runs and catches, even at age 32/33. I remember doing a breakdown of Williams starts in place of Bell and the offense was averaging some 29 points per game, better than Bell, which begs the question, can an offensive coordinator, a team get too enamored with a single player to the eventual detriment of the team?

I would argue yes, happens all the time.

I have often argued that we also overuse Antonio Brown, or specifically target him too much, force the ball to him too much. We have talented WRs not named Brown, JuJu and James Washington, I see no reason why this team, this offense can't have all 3 WRs end up with 1,000 yards receiving. Some will balk at that idea, say it is ludicrous, Brown needs his catches, won't be denied, blah, blah, blah.

They don't reward a Lombardi trophy to you because your stud RB has 100 catches or your WR has 2,000 yards receiving. For all of their fantasy football glory having Brown and Bell hasn't amounted to jack shit in the post-season has it?

Bell is slowing down, is becoming less and less effective. If I am a DC I WANT the Steelers to throw the ball to Bell, have him catch 100 passes. Those 2 TD catches were impressive last season, that woeful 7 something yards per catch, again, equally impressive A DC would rather you waste time throwing dinks and dunks to Bell instead of putting the ball in JuJu hands, or McDonald's or Washington.

I always wanted us to have a multi-dimensional RB that could rush for 1,000 yards and catch 50-60 passes in a season, but with Bell it has been taken to excess. All he cares about is his touches, all he cares about is his combined yards per game, meanwhile where are the touchdowns? Where are the explosive plays over 20+ yards, 40+ yards? The truly elite RBs in the game can average 11, 12 yards per catch, to average 4-5 yards less like Bell is not impressive whatsoever.

agree 100 percent. ill be so glad to see this overrated drama show leave the steelers!! to all u supporters go watch an elite back like oj Simpson ; Dickerson; Dorsett; Walter Payton . even Peterson on you tube. then watch this slow ass juking dumbass highlights. they are explosive and gash defenses. they have another gear to leave defenders in dust.. bell looks pedestrian compared to elite runners. ok I've seen some very nice runs; impressive games but the guys overated dud to me even without his baggage and drama. that said; I like bell in lineup. think he's good; but not 14 million a year good force feeding his juking ass. his games been figured out. just wait for him to come to you then stuff him..dude can't outrun anyone on defense!

[stillthere]

http://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nfl/news/steelers-nfl-ready-to-start-james-conner-week-1/u8uv5c4j6prp1up5athjogib5

According to post-gazette.com, Pittsburgh will start James Conner at running back even if disgruntled star Le'Veon Bell returns to practice this week.

Bell has not returned to the Steelers this season with yet another contract dispute weighing him down. Bell did not report to training camp, and he did not take the field during preseason. He did the same thing last season, but still finished among the NFL's top running backs in yards and touchdowns.

The report states that even if Bell were to return to practice by Wednesday, Conner, who ran well in the preseason, will get the start at in Cleveland.

Bell is scheduled to make $14.55 million this season, but the Steelers could place him on the two-week roster exempt list. The Steelers would not have to pay him, and would in turn save $1.7 million.

[steelmann58]

At this pint rather see Conner at least he in game shape.

[Havoc]

Nothing would surprise me at this point with Leveon.

[stillthere]

At this pint rather see Conner at least he in game shape.

I am with you on that. Was watching some of Bell's carries week 1 last year vs Cleveland and you could see him not just playing football but thinking about shit he was doing or trying to do. I think the 2 week exemption without pay would be a fitting punishment for leaving the rest of the team hanging. Plus the nearly 2 million in cap space it creates. Let him do 2 weeks of camp to start the season off with.

[Stillerz Bar]

http://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nfl/news/steelers-nfl-ready-to-start-james-conner-week-1/u8uv5c4j6prp1up5athjogib5

Bell is scheduled to make $14.55 million this season, but the Steelers could place him on the two-week roster exempt list. The Steelers would not have to pay him, and would in turn save $1.7 million.

I would love to see them put him on the two-week exempt list. He needs to be reminded that the world does not revolve around him and that he can't just come and go as he pleases.

[Minkah'n History]

http://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nfl/news/steelers-nfl-ready-to-start-james-conner-week-1/u8uv5c4j6prp1up5athjogib5

Bell is scheduled to make $14.55 million this season, but the Steelers could place him on the two-week roster exempt list. The Steelers would not have to pay him, and would in turn save $1.7 million.

I would love to see them put him on the two-week exempt list. He needs to be reminded that the world does not revolve around him and that he can't just come and go as he pleases.

What the fuck are they waiting for then?

DO IT NOW!

[Legacy User]

if I knew Conner can play all season and possible playoff I would not give a shit what bell does. but Conner seems injury prone. more so then bell. ideal scenario ; get bell back in week 13 with 11-1 record and have him as playoff running back fresh! save a ton in cap room

[K_C_]

What the fuck are they waiting for then?

DO IT NOW!

I think the reason they won't do it, is because the front office wants to win games.

James Conner goes down, far too often, on first contact. Just because he looked good in the preseason doesn't mean anything at this point.

Bell, as much as he pisses us off, is a very big reason the Steelers have been perennial contenders since he's been on the roster.

I understand being pissed at Bell for not reporting (although I do expect him to show up today AND contribute mightily this Sunday) but there is no question Bell gives us a much, much, much better chance at winning games than James Conner, Ridley or whoever the fuck else we have in the backfield.

[Legacy User]

Hopefully this all ends today and we can start posting positive comments across the board...I can dream.

[Havoc]

I don't know that Bell is going to show today. Yesterday on SNR...

Some think the FO and Bell were moving toward a contract compromise but then Bell moved the goal post further away. Not confirmed though.

There was talk yesterday of the possibility that Bell is moving the goal post again after the big guaranteed money recently given out in the league. He might be thinking he could miss games lose all that money but make it up on the back end with a megaguarantee $$$

Also, talked about now it becomes an issue in the locker room. Players don't care if a guy misses training camp... but now Bell's actions are affecting his teammates.

This is a problem now folks. Sure if he shows today it will go away eventually. I would not count on him showing today.