Hall of Famer Mike Tomlin

[Jizz Mop]

I think we all want Mike T to be successful. No one here cares about the color of his skin. We do care about games when we are outcoached badly like last Sunday. It's not fun to trot out that miserable offense with the same telegraphed plays over and over. It's not pretty to watch our defense stay in base so much that our LBs are forced to cover WRs over and over again.

The last two weeks our HOF QB has had to play sandlot football to win games. Yes, I'm thrilled to be 8-0 but that is an indictment on our offensive game plan, play calling, and preparation. You can blame Rustbelt Randy, but the HC is accountable at the end of the day.

We've watched this all too often. Just ask yourself this. How often in the last 10 years have you come away from a big game thinking "Man, we were undermanned but our coaching was so superior that it won us the game" ?

At the end of the day, Mike Tomlin loves to impose his will. He thinks his best will beat your best. Quite often that is the case. But, in the playoffs and in key situations, it often isn't. The difference between winning and losing in big games is coaching. It's being innovative, surprising the other team, attacking THEIR WEAKNESSES while MAXIMIZING YOUR OWN STRENGTHS. It's putting your pride and your football philosophy into the garbage and doing whatever it takes to win.

I still don't see that from Tomlin, and I need to see in in the post season before he is coronated in my book.

November 2020 Post of The Month

[Jobu]

I think we all want Mike T to be successful. No one here cares about the color of his skin. We do care about games when we are outcoached badly like last Sunday. It's not fun to trot out that miserable offense with the same telegraphed plays over and over. It's not pretty to watch our defense stay in base so much that our LBs are forced to cover WRs over and over again.

The last two weeks our HOF QB has had to play sandlot football to win games. Yes, I'm thrilled to be 8-0 but that is an indictment on our offensive game plan, play calling, and preparation. You can blame Rustbelt Randy, but the HC is accountable at the end of the day.

We've watched this all too often. Just ask yourself this. How often in the last 10 years have you come away from a big game thinking "Man, we were undermanned but our coaching was so superior that it won us the game" ?

At the end of the day, Mike Tomlin loves to impose his will. He thinks his best will beat your best. Quite often that is the case. But, in the playoffs and in key situations, it often isn't. The difference between winning and losing in big games is coaching. It's being innovative, surprising the other team, attacking THEIR WEAKNESSES while MAXIMIZING YOUR OWN STRENGTHS. It's putting your pride and your football philosophy into the garbage and doing whatever it takes to win.

I still don't see that from Tomlin, and I need to see in in the post season before he is coronated in my book.

November 2020 Post of The Month

Agreed.

[bradshaw2ben]

We've watched this all too often. Just ask yourself this. How often in the last 10 years have you come away from a big game thinking "Man, we were undermanned but our coaching was so superior that it won us the game" ?

The problem with you guys is you overrate the difference between the Steelers' talent and the rest of the league.

You look at the QB and use that to judge the talent comparison. Just in this thread, alone, there are numerous examples of this.

What coaching is and how it can make a difference--there are so many answers to that and some effects are more obvious than others.

[Jizz Mop]

“He won with Cowher’s guys”

/endthread

[K_C_]

We've watched this all too often. Just ask yourself this. How often in the last 10 years have you come away from a big game thinking "Man, we were undermanned but our coaching was so superior that it won us the game" ?

The problem with you guys is you overrate the difference between the Steelers' talent and the rest of the league.

You look at the QB and use that to judge the talent comparison. Just in this thread, alone, there are numerous examples of this.

What coaching is and how it can make a difference--there are so many answers to that and some effects are more obvious than others.

Tomlin has a pretty loaded team this season.

Very few weaknesses, if any on defense.

Only weakness I see on offense is at RB and that is IF Conner's annual injury hits. It hasn't yet.

Yeah, we're more talented than 95% of the teams in the NFL this year and that really isn't debateable.

Time for a deep playoff run and no WTF losses to the Blake Bortles and Tim Tebow's of the world.

[Jizz Mop]

Tebow loss was epic

Blake Fuckin Bortles with our offense going nuts and Ben putting on an aerial show

Embarrassing

[Jizz Mop]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 140pit.htm

Our last playoff appearance

Great memory

[Pabst]

Tebow loss was epic

Blake Fuckin Bortles with our offense going nuts and Ben putting on an aerial show

Embarrassing

In that same year as Tebow, the Ravens needed an Ed Reed interception at the goal line to get past TJ Yates and the Texans. (BTW, go back and look at the Steelers injury list from that AFCWC game. They were down the following from Week 17: Mendenhall, Pouncey, Clark, Keisel, Hampton, Starks).

Tom Brady needed to overcome a 10 point 4th quarter deficit against Blake Fuckin Bortles in the AFCC game the following week.

We all talk about the Glennon game from 2014.....Glennon and the Bucs went to OT the following week against Drew Brees/Sean Payton and the Saints.

[Pabst]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 140pit.htm

Our last playoff appearance

Great memory

For context - the Steelers were 7 point favorites in that game. Ravens were 10 point favorites vs. Tennessee last year.

[SteelPro]

A point in Tomlin’s favor is the record in Ben’s absences is pretty good. 18-14. I certainly give him more credit than some here. Comparing him to Jason Garrett is nonsense. My biggest knock on Tomlin is I can’t point to any examples that his teams significantly over performed. Last season was probably the closest thing to a true over performance. For me the greatest coaches not only win championships and win games consistently in the regular season, but they also lead some kind of signature post season upsets.

[Havoc]

A point in Tomlin’s favor is the record in Ben’s absences is pretty good. 18-14. I certainly give him more credit than some here. Comparing him to Jason Garrett is nonsense. My biggest knock on Tomlin is I can’t point to any examples that his teams significantly over performed. Last season was probably the closest thing to a true over performance. For me the greatest coaches not only win championships and win games consistently in the regular season, but they also lead some kind of signature post season upsets.

Saying it's nonsense doesn't make it so.

I'm telling you they are the same guy. Conservative football philosophy is why Jason Garrett got himself fired even if Jerry is too stupid to figure that out. Jerry is stuck in the past trying to win a ring the way he did yesterday same as Tomlin, same as Garrett. Garrett handles himself well with people and represents well. He's a good guy. People like him. Jerry did not want to fire him. Garrett and his conservative football philosophy at OC will fit right in with the Giants organizaton.

I'm not just picking on Tomlin. I would not want Parcells to be our HC either due to conservative football philosophy. It's living in the past man. The league has changed.

We shouldn't need a once in 10 year dominant defense to get a Lombardi but if you strategize under a conservative philosophy umbrella that is what it takes.

Saw Rex Ryan on TV recently. That dude was a BADASS DC. I would hate to have him as our HC due to conservative football philosophy.

The best brain in our organization of those that matter is Kevin Colbert and it's not close. He's keeping this thing going. He loaded the offensive cupboard yet again for Tomlin and what do we get? Stupid stupid stupid running on first down too often in the first half of games sans the Titans game with Ben having to bail out the HC in the second half far too often. Our RB is the 5th or 6th most talented weapon on this offense.

Andy Reid as an offensive mind just shits all over Mike Tomlin on that side of the football and as someone (me) who loves great offense as much as great defense and with all the talent on offense Tomlin has been given the past many years now it's just painful to watch the butchery.

[K_C_]

Tebow loss was epic

Blake Fuckin Bortles with our offense going nuts and Ben putting on an aerial show

Embarrassing

In that same year as Tebow, the Ravens needed an Ed Reed interception at the goal line to get past TJ Yates and the Texans. (BTW, go back and look at the Steelers injury list from that AFCWC game. They were down the following from Week 17: Mendenhall, Pouncey, Clark, Keisel, Hampton, Starks).

Tom Brady needed to overcome a 10 point 4th quarter deficit against Blake Fuckin Bortles in the AFCC game the following week.

We all talk about the Glennon game from 2014.....Glennon and the Bucs went to OT the following week against Drew Brees/Sean Payton and the Saints.

In all the examples you gave, the heavy favorite still won.

[K_C_]

A point in Tomlin’s favor is the record in Ben’s absences is pretty good. 18-14. I certainly give him more credit than some here. Comparing him to Jason Garrett is nonsense. My biggest knock on Tomlin is I can’t point to any examples that his teams significantly over performed. Last season was probably the closest thing to a true over performance. For me the greatest coaches not only win championships and win games consistently in the regular season, but they also lead some kind of signature post season upsets.

Saying it's nonsense doesn't make it so.

I'm telling you they are the same guy. Conservative football philosophy is why Jason Garrett got himself fired even if Jerry is too stupid to figure that out. Jerry is stuck in the past trying to win a ring the way he did yesterday same as Tomlin, same as Garrett. Garrett handles himself well with people and represents well. He's a good guy. People like him. Jerry did not want to fire him. Garrett and his conservative football philosophy at OC will fit right in with the Giants organizaton.

I'm not just picking on Tomlin. I would not want Parcels to be our HC either due to conservative football philosophy. It's living in the past man. The league has changed.

We shouldn't need a once in 10 year dominate defense to get a Lombardi but if you strategise under a conservative philosophy umbrella that is what it takes.

Saw Rex Ryan on TV recently. That dude was a BADASS DC. I would hate to have him as our HC due to conservative football philosophy.

The best brain in our organization of those that matter is Kevin Colbert and it's not close. He's keeping this thing going. He loaded the offensive cupboard yet again for Tomlin and what do we get? Stupid stupid stupid running on first down too often in the first half of games sans the Titans game with Ben having to bail out the HC in the second half far too often. Our RB is the 5th or 6th most talented weapon on this offense.

Andy Reid as an offensive mind just shits all over Mike Tomlin on that side of the football and as someone (me) who loves great offense as much as great defense and with all the talent on offense Tomlin has been given the past many years now it's just painful to watch the butchery.

Phenomenal post.

[K_C_]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 140pit.htm

Our last playoff appearance

Great memory

For context - the Steelers were 7 point favorites in that game. Ravens were 10 point favorites vs. Tennessee last year.

For context, the extremely talented Ryan Tannehill has been excellent for the most part again this year. There was talk earlier of Tannehill being in the MVP discussion.

That probably won't happen but Tannehill is the real deal and Tennessee will likely be a playoff team again.

Tebow? I won't even go there. It'd be too funny. Bortles? Same thing.

[Pabst]

Tebow loss was epic

Blake Fuckin Bortles with our offense going nuts and Ben putting on an aerial show

Embarrassing

In that same year as Tebow, the Ravens needed an Ed Reed interception at the goal line to get past TJ Yates and the Texans. (BTW, go back and look at the Steelers injury list from that AFCWC game. They were down the following from Week 17: Mendenhall, Pouncey, Clark, Keisel, Hampton, Starks).

Tom Brady needed to overcome a 10 point 4th quarter deficit against Blake Fuckin Bortles in the AFCC game the following week.

We all talk about the Glennon game from 2014.....Glennon and the Bucs went to OT the following week against Drew Brees/Sean Payton and the Saints.

In all the examples you gave, the heavy favorite still won.

Cool, so last weekend's game was NBD?

Tomlin struggles with Blake Bortles = bad coach
Belichick struggling vs Bortles = shrugged off

Glad we're consistent.

As to your other post, it's exactly what B2B addressed earlier:

The problem with you guys is you overrate the difference between the Steelers' talent and the rest of the league.

You look at the QB and use that to judge the talent comparison. Just in this thread, alone, there are numerous examples of this.

What coaching is and how it can make a difference--there are so many answers to that and some effects are more obvious than others.

[K_C_]

In that same year as Tebow, the Ravens needed an Ed Reed interception at the goal line to get past TJ Yates and the Texans. (BTW, go back and look at the Steelers injury list from that AFCWC game. They were down the following from Week 17: Mendenhall, Pouncey, Clark, Keisel, Hampton, Starks).

Tom Brady needed to overcome a 10 point 4th quarter deficit against Blake Fuckin Bortles in the AFCC game the following week.

We all talk about the Glennon game from 2014.....Glennon and the Bucs went to OT the following week against Drew Brees/Sean Payton and the Saints.

In all the examples you gave, the heavy favorite still won.

Cool, so last weekend's game was NBD?

Tomlin struggles with Blake Bortles = bad coach
Belichick struggling vs Bortles = shrugged off

Glad we're consistent.

As to your other post, it's exactly what B2B addressed earlier:

The problem with you guys is you overrate the difference between the Steelers' talent and the rest of the league.

You look at the QB and use that to judge the talent comparison. Just in this thread, alone, there are numerous examples of this.

What coaching is and how it can make a difference--there are so many answers to that and some effects are more obvious than others.

Last weekend's game doesn't have DICK to do with what we're discussing, which is the postseason and Tomlin's struggles.

You listed postseason games.

Tomlin didn't "struggle" with Blake Bortles.

Tomlin "LOST" to Blake Bortles. In Pittsburgh. In the postseason. As a favorite.

The very next weekend, while it wasn't easy, Beliichick ended Bortles playoff run.

[Pabst]

Last weekend's game doesn't have DICK to do with what we're discussing, which is the postseason and Tomlin's struggles.

You listed postseason games.

Tomlin didn't "struggle" with Blake Bortles.

Tomlin "LOST" to Blake Bortles. In Pittsburgh. In the postseason. As a favorite.

The very next weekend, while it wasn't easy, Beliichick ended Bortles playoff run.

Yep. Tomlin lost, at home, as a 7 point favorite. To you, that's inexcusable.

Harbaugh lost, at home, as a 10 point favorite, and you give him a pass.

W/L over a ten year stretch is not the end all be all of evaluating a coach. But it fits your narrative so you'll beat that to death without even acknowledging counter arguments, let alone refute them.

[K_C_]

Last weekend's game doesn't have DICK to do with what we're discussing, which is the postseason and Tomlin's struggles.

You listed postseason games.

Tomlin didn't "struggle" with Blake Bortles.

Tomlin "LOST" to Blake Bortles. In Pittsburgh. In the postseason. As a favorite.

The very next weekend, while it wasn't easy, Beliichick ended Bortles playoff run.

Yep. Tomlin lost, at home, as a 7 point favorite. To you, that's inexcusable.

Harbaugh lost, at home, as a 10 point favorite, and you give him a pass.

W/L over a ten year stretch is not the end all be all of evaluating a coach. But it fits your narrative so you'll beat that to death without even acknowledging counter arguments, let alone refute them.

Um....Tomlin lost to Blake Bortles.

Are you seriously comparing Blake Fucking Bortles to Tannehill, who has continued his outstanding play into this year?

Blake Bortles.

What's he doing these days anyway?

[K_C_]

W/L over a ten year stretch is not the end all be all of evaluating a coach. But it fits your narrative so you'll beat that to death without even acknowledging counter arguments, let alone refute them.

Would you prefer we talk about it in terms of what happened once Cowher's players were gone?

I think the last decade is a very telling period of time.

Also, Tomlin has had a fucking Hall of Fame QB the ENTIRE time he's been in Pittsburgh.

You wanna refresh my memory as to who Harbaugh has had? I thought not.

[Pabst]

You wanna refresh my memory as to who Harbaugh has had? I thought not.

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata.

Harbaugh has had exactly 1 post season win in the 8 years since Lewis and Reed retired.

I'll once again quote B2B:

The problem with you guys is you overrate the difference between the Steelers' talent and the rest of the league.

You look at the QB and use that to judge the talent comparison. Just in this thread, alone, there are numerous examples of this.

What coaching is and how it can make a difference--there are so many answers to that and some effects are more obvious than others.

[K_C_]

You wanna refresh my memory as to who Harbaugh has had? I thought not.

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata.

Harbaugh has had exactly 1 post season win in the 8 years since Lewis and Reed retired.

I'll once again quote B2B:

The problem with you guys is you overrate the difference between the Steelers' talent and the rest of the league.

You look at the QB and use that to judge the talent comparison. Just in this thread, alone, there are numerous examples of this.

What coaching is and how it can make a difference--there are so many answers to that and some effects are more obvious than others.

....and none of those guys you just mentioned play the most important position, by far, in the NFL.

Both teams had great players at multiple positions.

But you're bullshitting if you don't think QB is THE most important position. Especially having a future Hall of Fame QB.

For Tomlin's entire Steeler tenure? Get real.

[Pabst]

You wanna refresh my memory as to who Harbaugh has had? I thought not.

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata.

Harbaugh has had exactly 1 post season win in the 8 years since Lewis and Reed retired.

I'll once again quote B2B:

The problem with you guys is you overrate the difference between the Steelers' talent and the rest of the league.

You look at the QB and use that to judge the talent comparison. Just in this thread, alone, there are numerous examples of this.

What coaching is and how it can make a difference--there are so many answers to that and some effects are more obvious than others.

....and none of those guys you just mentioned play the most important position, by far, in the NFL.

Both teams had great players at multiple positions.

But you're bullshitting if you don't think QB is THE most important position. Especially having a future Hall of Fame QB.

For Tomlin's entire Steeler tenure? Get real.

QB being the most important position doesn't mean you ignore literally everything else.

[K_C_]

Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata.

Harbaugh has had exactly 1 post season win in the 8 years since Lewis and Reed retired.

I'll once again quote B2B:

....and none of those guys you just mentioned play the most important position, by far, in the NFL.

Both teams had great players at multiple positions.

But you're bullshitting if you don't think QB is THE most important position. Especially having a future Hall of Fame QB.

For Tomlin's entire Steeler tenure? Get real.

QB being the most important position doesn't mean you ignore literally everything else.

Dude...the Steelers were easily as loaded as the Ravens were defensively.

C'mon.

...and offensively they had possibly the greatest receiver in NFL history. A top 5 (or higher) offensive line. Several other outstanding weapons, including Bell.

Nah, not buying it.

[Pabst]

....and none of those guys you just mentioned play the most important position, by far, in the NFL.

Both teams had great players at multiple positions.

But you're bullshitting if you don't think QB is THE most important position. Especially having a future Hall of Fame QB.

For Tomlin's entire Steeler tenure? Get real.

QB being the most important position doesn't mean you ignore literally everything else.

Dude...the Steelers were easily as loaded as the Ravens were defensively.

C'mon.

...and offensively they had possibly the greatest receiver in NFL history. A top 5 (or higher) offensive line. Several other outstanding weapons, including Bell.

Nah, not buying it.

Yeah, and they hung 42 on the Jags. Defense was the issue.

That same year, Harbaugh blew his shot at the playoffs by losing, at home, to Andy Dalton and the 6-9-1 Bengals. That won't reflect on his playoff record.

Last season, with the reigning league MVP at the helm, Harbaugh got absolutely skull fucked in the playoffs. At home. As a 10 point favorite.

All i ask is you hold Harbaugh and Tomlin to the same standard

[K_C_]

QB being the most important position doesn't mean you ignore literally everything else.

Dude...the Steelers were easily as loaded as the Ravens were defensively.

C'mon.

...and offensively they had possibly the greatest receiver in NFL history. A top 5 (or higher) offensive line. Several other outstanding weapons, including Bell.

Nah, not buying it.

Yeah, and they hung 42 on the Jags. Defense was the issue.

That same year, Harbaugh blew his shot at the playoffs by losing, at home, to Andy Dalton and the 6-9-1 Bengals. That won't reflect on his playoff record.

Last season, with the reigning league MVP at the helm, Harbaugh got absolutely skull fucked in the playoffs. At home. As a 10 point favorite.

All i ask is you hold Harbaugh and Tomlin to the same standard

...and with vastly inferior QB's, Harbaugh still has a better playoff record than Mike Tomlin.

The league might be starting to figure out Lamar Jackson out. After Flacco's epic run, the league DEFINITELY figured out Joe Flacco.

Neither are anywhere near in Ben Roethlisberger's league and you know it.

The Ravens are going to have a tough time in the postseason with Lamar, because as talented as he is, the guy probably won't throw the ball accurately enough to win championships. While the Ravens have a very good defense, it isn't other-worldly great so that it can make up for a super talented but flawed QB.

This Steelers team has very few weaknesses.

Like I said earlier, Tomlin is out of excuses with this bunch. Phenomenal defense. Hall of Fame QB with plenty of weapons. Special teams, especially the return game and punter, are vastly improved this season. Boswell is among the best.

Are you confident of a deep postseason run this year?

[tunch]

Last season, with the reigning league MVP at the helm, Harbaugh got absolutely skull fucked in the playoffs. At home. As a 10 point favorite.

Tell me with a straight face that Lamar Jackson is anywhere near Ben's level as a quarterback.

The Ravens are running the best wildcat offense in NFL history. I'd rather have a real QB.

[El Kabong]

Dude...the Steelers were easily as loaded as the Ravens were defensively.

C'mon.

...and offensively they had possibly the greatest receiver in NFL history. A top 5 (or higher) offensive line. Several other outstanding weapons, including Bell.

Nah, not buying it.

Yeah, and they hung 42 on the Jags. Defense was the issue.

That same year, Harbaugh blew his shot at the playoffs by losing, at home, to Andy Dalton and the 6-9-1 Bengals. That won't reflect on his playoff record.

Last season, with the reigning league MVP at the helm, Harbaugh got absolutely skull fucked in the playoffs. At home. As a 10 point favorite.

All i ask is you hold Harbaugh and Tomlin to the same standard

...and with vastly inferior QB's, Harbaugh still has a better playoff record than Mike Tomlin.

The league might be starting to figure out Lamar Jackson out. After Flacco's epic run, the league DEFINITELY figured out Joe Flacco.

Neither are anywhere near in Ben Roethlisberger's league and you know it.

The Ravens are going to have a tough time in the postseason with Lamar, because as talented as he is, the guy probably won't throw the ball accurately enough to win championships. While the Ravens have a very good defense, it isn't other-worldly great so that it can make up for a super talented but flawed QB.

This Steelers team has very few weaknesses.

Like I said earlier, Tomlin is out of excuses with this bunch. Phenomenal defense. Hall of Fame QB with plenty of weapons. Special teams, especially the return game and punter, are vastly improved this season. Boswell is among the best.

Are you confident of a deep postseason run this year?

Yes, because we have the team that can do it now unlike previous years that you and others want to keep bringing up. We did have a "deep playoff run" as recently as 2016 with a team that was inferior to this one. Last time we had a team as good as this one, we went to a super bowl.

[RemoAZ]

Tomlin is a defensive coach. If you're going to be a conservative, defensive coach, you better have a dominating defense. Cowher was a conservative defensive coach as well but he had that dominating defense and was continually pushing those guys to be more aggressive. Now, was that simply a difference in talent? I guess that's the debate. Colbert has done a great job bringing in offensive talent but during the Tomlin era, the defense got progressively worse until they were pretty damn bad until last year. Did Tomlin/Colbert just not do a good job bringing in the talent or did Tomlin and his coaching staff do a bad job developing that talent and putting them in the best position to succeed? I loved watching Cowher on the sidelines getting in guys' faces, motivating and coaching. I don't see a lot of that from Tomlin. Is it just style or is he just more hands off? The non-losing seasons is an impressive streak. The decline of the defense during a defensive head coach's tenure and performance in the playoffs isn't.

We certainly could do worse than Tomlin but with Ben's career winding down, it feels like a lot of opportunity was wasted. I really hope he's learned enough over the years to turn the corner in the playoffs this season. The defense is back and he still has Ben. This is his chance to make his mark. Get it done coach!

[Professor Half Wit]

Tebow loss was epic

Blake Fuckin Bortles with our offense going nuts and Ben putting on an aerial show

Embarrassing

Was the Tebow Teabag on Tomlin or LeBeau?

[Jizz Mop]

Tebow loss was epic

Blake Fuckin Bortles with our offense going nuts and Ben putting on an aerial show

Embarrassing

Was the Tebow Teabag on Tomlin or LeBeau?

In honor of Alex Trebek “what is both?”