TOMLIN MORATORIUM: By presidential decree...

[Legacy User]

So, a college coach that underperformed this year. The Eagles coach who played his way out of the playoffs. One Harbaugh that's getting fired in 5 days, or the other Harbaugh that needs help to get in the playoffs.

I think you're fucking brilliant

Ah, so we evaluate coaches by the last three months now.

You're right. Pick one and put his career up against Tomlin

any one

My Create-A-Coach in Madden went 19-0 for 10 seasons straight. Suck it, Tomlin apologists.

[tunch]

I failed to point out that Tomlin is superior to all in regular season winning percentage except BB and Mccarthy. He's only behind BB and Harbaugh in terms of post season win percentage. Payton, BB, Mccarthy, really all of them except Harbaugh have had franchise QBs and playoff worthy rosters.

Tomlin is 42 and looks like he lives for this shit. He might still be here when I'm collecting checks. And if he is...he will be legend.

This is actually pretty interesting thought the samples are really small but it can't be wrong because Schottenheimer ranks last:

Playoff Coaches vs. The Spread

http://www.footballperspective.com/the- ... mer-index/

[tunch]

You're right.

It's a Christmas miracle.

Pick one and put his career up against Tomlin

any one

No. Your criteria is stupid and meaningless and, by the time I've answered, I'm sure you'll have changed it again.

[drmalba]

Right. So we've established that Belichick and Tunch are two better NFL coaches than Mike Tomlin. Is there a definitive 3rd? Maybe several guys on the same tier? So he's a top 5-10 NFL coach? I agree with that.

I'd really like Gus Malzahn as the next coach of the Steelers but he could probably use a little more experience in the big chair.

I also really like Chip Kelly. I think Pettine is pretty sharp and I think he'll do well with another team because nobody will win with that Cleveland organization. The Harbaughs know how to put their teams in a spot to win but they run reprehensible squads. I like Fisher and I hope he finds a QB; Fisher has balls.

I think Tomlin is average when considering he's probably working for the single best organization in professional sports. Without looking, I'd guess his performance relative to post-season betting lines is pretty awful. Without looking, I know Cowher's was atrocious.

I think the only way this Steelers team will beat a better team in these playoffs is how they always have: Ben Roethlisberger pulling something out of his ass. We're not out-scheming or out-coaching anyone not named Marv Lewis.

You criticize the use of postseason wins and regular season wins to judge a coach's ability and you counter-offer with postseason performance relative to Vegas gambling lines?

You criticize Tomlin for playing down to opponents, while slathering over Jeff Fisher, a guy who's made a career of putting together 8-8 and 7-9 teams that play hard against superior opponents and lose to inferior ones - a guy who's put up six winning seasons in 23 years of coaching?

My apologies sir - I had you pegged wrong. All the snarky one-liners, I thought you were just being a troll. Now that you're actually explaining yourself, I can see you're full on delusional.

[Legacy User]

For the sake of argument, let's say that Malzahn, Chip Kelly, Pettine, the Harbaughs, and Jeff Fisher (gulp) are all unequivocally better (along with Belichick) than Mike Tomlin. That means we have Mike Tomlin as the 7th best current NFL head coach, who will fall to 8th if someone hires Gus Malzahn. Either way, we agree that he's in the top quarter of NFL head coaches.

I won't argue about the credentials of some of those top flight guys named, but I imagine that others might.

[tunch]

You criticize the use of postseason wins and regular season wins to judge a coach's ability and you counter-offer with postseason performance relative to Vegas gambling lines?

Do you not see a difference between a win and a loss as a 10 point favorite? (TEEEEEBBBOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW)

But if you think the Vegas market is inefficient, feel free to post some pictures of your yacht.

You criticize Tomlin for playing down to opponents, while slathering over Jeff Fisher, a guy who's made a career of putting together 8-8 and 7-9 teams that play hard against superior opponents and lose to inferior ones - a guy who's put up six winning seasons in 23 years of coaching?

If only everyone could coach Aaron Rodgers.

My apologies sir - I had you pegged wrong. All the snarky one-liners, I thought you were just being a troll. Now that you're actually explaining yourself, I can see you're full on delusional.

I'm not impressed.

[Legacy User]

Right. So we've established that Belichick and Tunch are two better NFL coaches than Mike Tomlin. Is there a definitive 3rd? Maybe several guys on the same tier? So he's a top 5-10 NFL coach? I agree with that.

I'd really like Gus Malzahn as the next coach of the Steelers but he could probably use a little more experience in the big chair.

I also really like Chip Kelly. I think Pettine is pretty sharp and I think he'll do well with another team because nobody will win with that Cleveland organization. The Harbaughs know how to put their teams in a spot to win but they run reprehensible squads. I like Fisher and I hope he finds a QB; Fisher has balls.

I think Tomlin is average when considering he's probably working for the single best organization in professional sports. Without looking, I'd guess his performance relative to post-season betting lines is pretty awful. Without looking, I know Cowher's was atrocious.

I think the only way this Steelers team will beat a better team in these playoffs is how they always have: Ben Roethlisberger pulling something out of his ass. We're not out-scheming or out-coaching anyone not named Marv Lewis.

You criticize the use of postseason wins and regular season wins to judge a coach's ability and you counter-offer with postseason performance relative to Vegas gambling lines?

You criticize Tomlin for playing down to opponents, while slathering over Jeff Fisher, a guy who's made a career of putting together 8-8 and 7-9 teams that play hard against superior opponents and lose to inferior ones - a guy who's put up six winning seasons in 23 years of coaching?

My apologies sir - I had you pegged wrong. All the snarky one-liners, I thought you were just being a troll. Now that you're actually explaining yourself, I can see you're full on delusional.

Anyone can win lots of games with this awesome organization that's so good and great that it's the best in sports and practically runs itself with the exception of hiring a terrible coach and not firing him for going 8-8 twice. Does he call timeouts when I think he should and cover the spread?

[Legacy User]

this thread needs a mercy rule

[Legacy User]

You criticize the use of postseason wins and regular season wins to judge a coach's ability and you counter-offer with postseason performance relative to Vegas gambling lines?

Do you not see a difference between a win and a loss as a 10 point favorite? (TEEEEEBBBOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW)

But if you think the Vegas market is inefficient, feel free to post some pictures of your yacht.

You criticize Tomlin for playing down to opponents, while slathering over Jeff Fisher, a guy who's made a career of putting together 8-8 and 7-9 teams that play hard against superior opponents and lose to inferior ones - a guy who's put up six winning seasons in 23 years of coaching?

If only everyone could coach Aaron Rodgers.

My apologies sir - I had you pegged wrong. All the snarky one-liners, I thought you were just being a troll. Now that you're actually explaining yourself, I can see you're full on delusional.

I'm not impressed.

Merry Christmas SSS, I've been wondering where you have been this entire time.

[Legacy User]

Anyone can win lots of games with this awesome organization that's so good and great that it's the best in sports and practically runs itself with the exception of hiring a terrible coach and not firing him for going 8-8 twice.

I think this assumption is worth digging into as well.

What makes an organization "the single best organization in professional sports"? If the HC has nothing to do with creating that construct, how does it occur and maintain? Is it the Rooney's gentle, supportive nature that makes the Steelers more likely to win vis a vis every other pro sports team? Is Kevin Colbert the best GM in pro sports? Is it the logo? Is it playing in Pittsburgh (citation: Pittsburgh Pirates 1993-2012)?

It seems like a very big assumption that it's somehow easier to win for the Pittsburgh Steelers than it is in any other city in any sport.

[tunch]

Anyone can win lots of games with this awesome organization that's so good and great that it's the best in sports and practically runs itself with the exception of hiring a terrible coach and not firing him for going 8-8 twice. Does he call timeouts when I think he should and cover the spread?

You didn't mention the quarterback........

And it's not about covering the spread. It's what the spread implies. If we assume that the Vegas market is very close to efficient (since it is since nobody here and few on the planet can beat it), then the spread implies a lot about win percentages.

For example, being a seven point favorite implies that team will win about 70% of the time. Then it's simple math to see how coaches have historically performed versus expected wins.

So either Belichcik, Walsh, and Vermeil are the three luckiest guys in coaching history or it turns out they're pretty fucking good.

http://www.footballperspective.com/bill ... he-spread/

(Cowher and Schottenheimer performed very, very well against expected wins - in the regular season. We all already knew that.)

[Legacy User]

Anyone can win lots of games with this awesome organization that's so good and great that it's the best in sports and practically runs itself with the exception of hiring a terrible coach and not firing him for going 8-8 twice.

I think this assumption is worth digging into as well.

What makes an organization "the single best organization in professional sports"? If the HC has nothing to do with creating that construct, how does it occur and maintain? Is it the Rooney's gentle, supportive nature that makes the Steelers more likely to win vis a vis every other pro sports team? Is Kevin Colbert the best GM in pro sports? Is it the logo? Is it playing in Pittsburgh (citation: Pittsburgh Pirates 1993-2012)?

It seems like a very big assumption that it's somehow easier to win for the Pittsburgh Steelers than it is in any other city in any sport.

It's just the best, OK?!

And Mike Tomlin is RUINING IT!!!! The best organization in professional should win the Super Bowl every year on account of their bestness, but they aren't BECAUSE OF HIM!!!! It's NOT FAIR!!!!

[Legacy User]

any list that has Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher top 10 all time is ok in my book

[drmalba]

(TEEEEEBBBOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW)

But if you think the Vegas market is inefficient, feel free to post some pictures of your yacht.

Never mind by the link you just posted, your coach du jour Jeff Fisher is exactly equivalent to Mike Tomlin (0.2) and Bill Cowher (0.4, far from the "Schottenheimer nadir" you predicted) . By an demonstration of your own preferred methodology you're off-base.

You criticize Tomlin for playing down to opponents, while slathering over Jeff Fisher, a guy who's made a career of putting together 8-8 and 7-9 teams that play hard against superior opponents and lose to inferior ones - a guy who's put up six winning seasons in 23 years of coaching?

If only everyone could coach Aaron Rodgers.

In his best years Fisher had Steve McNair, Eddie George, Derrick Mason in his prime and all he could muster was a single super bowl appearance - and he lost it.

I think you're primarily dazzled by Jeff Fisher's ability to call great Special Teams plays. If you want to advocate to replace Danny Smith with Jeff Fisher, i'm all for that.

[Legacy User]

any list that has Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher top 10 all time is ok in my book

Two of the finest timeout-takers I've ever seen. Good facial hair, too.

[tunch]

I think this assumption is worth digging into as well.

What makes an organization "the single best organization in professional sports"? If the HC has nothing to do with creating that construct, how does it occur and maintain? Is it the Rooney's gentle, supportive nature that makes the Steelers more likely to win vis a vis every other pro sports team? Is Kevin Colbert the best GM in pro sports? Is it the logo? Is it playing in Pittsburgh (citation: Pittsburgh Pirates 1993-2012)?

It seems like a very big assumption that it's somehow easier to win for the Pittsburgh Steelers than it is in any other city in any sport.

If you can't sniff out the difference between the Steelers, Giants, and Patriots vs. the Redskins, Raiders, Bengals, Browns, Jaguars, Jets, etc then I can't help you.

[tunch]

any list that has Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher top 10 all time is ok in my book

The other eight guys are going to the Hall of Fame.

[Legacy User]

How is the spread created? Don't both teams have to establish an expected level of performance in order for an oddsmaker to create a point spread? If so, who contributes to that expected level of performance?

It appears then that the perfect coach then would be someone who is consistently underestimated, either by putting up subpar performances in the regular season or due to other psychological factors. Would it be difficult for someone heading "the single best organization in professional sports" to be consistently underestimated?

If oddsmakers lines were truly efficient, wouldn't they account for the differential of the good head coaches who typically beat them? Seems like if you were willing to bet those ~20-30 game sample sizes you could make a killing, no?

[tunch]

any list that has Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher top 10 all time is ok in my book

Andy Reid is a really solid coach. Firmly in the Tomlin grouping of strong regular season coaches that piss their pants in the playoffs.

Andy Reid has really gotten a lot out of some shitty rosters and shittier quarterbacks. That's impressive.

[Legacy User]

I think this assumption is worth digging into as well.

What makes an organization "the single best organization in professional sports"? If the HC has nothing to do with creating that construct, how does it occur and maintain? Is it the Rooney's gentle, supportive nature that makes the Steelers more likely to win vis a vis every other pro sports team? Is Kevin Colbert the best GM in pro sports? Is it the logo? Is it playing in Pittsburgh (citation: Pittsburgh Pirates 1993-2012)?

It seems like a very big assumption that it's somehow easier to win for the Pittsburgh Steelers than it is in any other city in any sport.

If you can't sniff out the difference between the Steelers, Giants, and Patriots vs. the Redskins, Raiders, Bengals, Browns, Jaguars, Jets, etc then I can't help you.

"Single best in professional sports" means the Steelers are unequivocally better than the Giants and Patriots (also, the Yankees, the Lakers, the Celtics, and many more). Further, if this is the case, why is it so? I would argue the respective coaches of great franchises are a key differentiating factor, but it appears you would argue that is not the case.

[tunch]

"Single best in professional sports" means the Steelers are unequivocally better than the Giants and Patriots (also, the Yankees, the Lakers, the Celtics, and many more). Further, if this is the case, why is it so? I would argue the respective coaches of great franchises are a key differentiating factor, but it appears you would argue that is not the case.

Your argument bores me.

[Legacy User]

"Single best in professional sports" means the Steelers are unequivocally better than the Giants and Patriots (also, the Yankees, the Lakers, the Celtics, and many more). Further, if this is the case, why is it so? I would argue the respective coaches of great franchises are a key differentiating factor, but it appears you would argue that is not the case.

Your argument bores me.

It's painful to be caught in indefensible positions.

[tunch]

It's painful to be caught in indefensible positions.

You do realize that Joe Torre and Bill Belichick and Tom Coughlin were all fired from their previous job, right?

[lifelongsteel]

any list that has Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher top 10 all time is ok in my book

Andy Reid is a really solid coach. Firmly in the Tomlin grouping of strong regular season coaches that piss their pants in the playoffs.

Andy Reid has really gotten a lot out of some shitty rosters and shittier quarterbacks. That's impressive.

I thought you prided yourself on being objective/accurate/statistics driven.

So, how does 5-3 recored with 2 AFC championships and a super bowl victory make Tomlin a "piss their pants in the playoffs" coach?

[Legacy User]

any list that has Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher top 10 all time is ok in my book

Andy Reid is a really solid coach. Firmly in the Tomlin grouping of strong regular season coaches that piss their pants in the playoffs.

Andy Reid has really gotten a lot out of some shitty rosters and shittier quarterbacks. That's impressive.

I thought you prided yourself on being objective/accurate/statistics driven.

So, how does 5-3 recored with 2 AFC championships and a super bowl victory make Tomlin a "piss their pants in the playoffs" coach?

Ken Whisenhunt certainly would have done much better, just ask tunch.

[Legacy User]

It's painful to be caught in indefensible positions.

You do realize that Joe Torre and Bill Belichick and Tom Coughlin were all fired from their previous job, right?

That question is a non-sequitur. Let me try to follow...

So coaches don't have an effect on the quality of the organizations in which they reside? The Browns are a bad org and they were stupid to fire Belichick. The Pats are a good org and they were smart to get Belichick. Got it.

But if the quality of the orq drives the success anyway, why does it even matter who the coach is? How do we know that Belichick is any good if we pre-suppose that the Patriots general aura is responsible for much of the success?

Also, how do the Jets fit in since they initially rehired Bill as a HC? Good or bad?

[tunch]

I thought you prided yourself on being objective/accurate/statistics driven.

So, how does 5-3 recored with 2 AFC championships and a super bowl victory make Tomlin a "piss their pants in the playoffs" coach?

Five playoff wins in seven years with a HoF quarterback and some historically great defenses.

Two home wins over Flacco, home win over an 8-8 Chargers team, another home win vs. Mark Sanchez, and then the 9-7 Cardinals.

That's a lucky draw more than exemplary coaching.

[drmalba]

I thought you prided yourself on being objective/accurate/statistics driven.

So, how does 5-3 recored with 2 AFC championships and a super bowl victory make Tomlin a "piss their pants in the playoffs" coach?

Five playoff wins in seven years with a HoF quarterback and some historically great defenses.

Two home wins over Flacco, home win over an 8-8 Chargers team, another home win vs. Mark Sanchez, and then the 9-7 Cardinals.

That's a lucky draw more than exemplary coaching.

Those were two very good Ravens teams, with very good defenses, the core of which won a SuperBowl with Flacco. You can't just put them aside as a lucky draw.

In 2008 the Ravens had the #1 rushing offense, and the #2 overall defense. We swept them in the regular season and beat them in the AFCC - an exceptional coaching accomplishment in of itself.

You also neglect the fact that 9-7 Cardinals team we beat in the dance had a top-10 offense and a future hall of famer at QB in Kurt Warner. Granted - we still should have beat them - and we did.

[K_C_]

Flacco had a one year lucky run for the ages.

Not sure how that can be argued.

He's come back down to earth and he's horrible.

[Thrillsseeker]

I'm so damn happy right now. Our coaching staff and our players are straight kicking ass, we have one of the top offenses in the NFL, we are going BACK to the playoffs, Deebo has turned back the clock, Ben ISN'T hurt, and the shit-ass Ravens ate a dick today.

Merry Fucking Christmas my furious brothers! Ho Ho Fucking Ho!!!
Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaa

Props to you my brother!

I stopped reading this thread right here as I quote you.

THIS!

ALL OF IT!



Also, good to see you back HEINZsite!!!!!