So how bout them "outdated defensive concepts"?

[Legacy User]

How about that Rush Defense?

How about these concepts-

1- Heyward looks more like he did previous to last season. That is annihilated by a down block. Never felt it...last one off the ball anyway. Total humiliation.

2- Timmons buried by the charlie. He has to meet that G deeper, get off the block or at least go low and create a pile in the hole. Piss poor...needs to get 75 cleat marks off his shirt.

3- Mitchell head up his ass terrible angle.

But if we only give up one of those a quarter we are playing good run D

[Legacy User]

I wasn't impressed by Mike Mitchell at all last night. I honestly thought it was Clark out there again.

[bradshaw2ben]

Mitchell head up his ass terrible angle.

the difference between a play where everybody got tooled upfront and it's a 15 yard gain vs. a 60+yd TD.

[Legacy User]

Not great to see. It is game 1 of preseason, though. Mike Mitchell just coming off the boo boo list. Yeah I'm making excuses.

Can you imagine if that had been Shazier in there and not Timmons?

[Legacy User]

the difference between a play where everybody got tooled upfront and it's a 15 yard gain vs. a 60+yd TD.

A couple of real disappointments yesterday and he was one of them. Not the end of the world but you hear him talk and you are expecting a smooth transition. I think both he and 28 bit on the WR quick hitch...a false step n half left and that's all folks.

[steelclan]

B2B yes ends got tooled, Timmons got bear hugged. The bottom line is plays like this killed this team last season and it is worrying one happened first time PS faced another team. I can deal with gap integrity failing and Troy/Mitchell cleaning it up but if they dont fix the tendency to give up huge splash plays teams like the Oakland Raiders/Titans will continue to make what should be 10-6 seasons 8-8 or worse.

[jewelsongs]

I looked at the gif frame by frame. It looks like Timmons got held and that Allen blew it. Troy probably makes the tackle. The play seems to be a combination of bad angles by our safeties and a little luck that the holding wasn't called. I read that Manning called the audible at the line after seeing our defense. Good call, bad tackling.

[Legacy User]

I don't know what planet you think that's a hold on. He wasn't wrapped up, he was stood up and buried. I think that's Thomas and his first three steps say he had deep responsibility there...so would TP and I doubt he gets there...Thomas could have recovered better but that play is mostly on Heyward, Timmons, and Mitchell.

[jewelsongs]

I don't know what planet you think that's a hold on. He wasn't wrapped up, he was stood up and buried. I think that's Thomas and his first three steps say he had deep responsibility there...so would TP and I doubt he gets there...Thomas could have recovered better but that play is mostly on Heyward, Timmons, and Mitchell.

It would be planet earth.

[Legacy User]

Blow it up big and take another look...that never gets called.

[jewelsongs]

If you focus on frame 40 though 45, you see Timmons being pulled back. It looks like holding to me. But no biggie, as they didn't call it anyway.

[Legacy User]

As long as the hands aren't outside it's not holding.

[jewelsongs]

As long as the hands aren't outside it's not holding.

I agree, but typically when a player is pulled backwards, it is holding. No matter.

[Legacy User]

As long as the hands aren't outside it's not holding.

I don't know what planet you think that's a hold on. He wasn't wrapped up, he was stood up and buried.

Huh, interesting

[jebrick]

Caught the Steelers in a stunt and Cam Thomas is not a very good NT. And just a wee bit of holding there as well.

[Legacy User]

As long as the hands aren't outside it's not holding.

I don't know what planet you think that's a hold on. He wasn't wrapped up, he was stood up and buried.

Huh, interesting

Not observable on the gif. But that's never called...that's a split second and he ends up on his back not drug down.

[Legacy User]

It is oberservable on the gif. The tug the OL has on the shoulder pad of Timmons is also seen on the gif. It's not a big one but it doesn't have to be. How about you just say you missed it instead of trying to rationalize it.

It's a bear hug in the hole the play is going through, how is that never called?

[bradshaw2ben]

and that's called holding all the time, especially on a play where the umpire is behind the LBs

[Legacy User]

It is oberservable on the gif. The tug the OL has on the shoulder pad of Timmons is also seen on the gif. It's not a big one but it doesn't have to be. How about you just say you missed it instead of trying to rationalize it.

It's a bear hug in the hole the play is going through, how is that never called?

No you can't see the hand on the back of the jersey...you see he can't yank off the block, then you see him on his back.

and that's called holding all the time, especially on a play where the umpire is behind the LBs

I look at the gif...consider how long his hand was outside, the traffic, the position of the officials and I don't think that ever gets called.

[Legacy User]

I see how this is going to be. You are going to spout your observations as facts, question anyone who disagrees, then dodge like a motherfucker when proven wrong.

You said he wasn't warped up, well he was. Ain't my fault you didn't see it and since you didn't you are claiming that well it wouldn't ever be called anyway based on your other observations of the same gif with the clear and very obvious hold you missed.

[Legacy User]

Zivco has spoken. He is right. Everyone who thinks it is holding, you are wrong.

That's just the way it is....never mind Timmons is getting bear hugged by the lineman. Zivco says it's clean, it's clean.

[Legacy User]

Zivco has spoken. He is right. Everyone who thinks it is holding, you are wrong.

That's just the way it is....never mind Timmons is getting bear hugged by the lineman. Zivco says it's clean, it's clean.

Doesn't matter what Zivco thinks. It wasn't called holding so it wasn't holding.

[Legacy User]

LMAO, the uncalled holding had no effect on the play?

Wonder what else you miss when you are watching tape...

[COR-TEN]

He was held and tackled. The photo posted here showing the bear hug is from a gif from behind the line of scrimmage. If you watch the entire sequence you can see he was plainly held and tackled. Had he not held him, Timmons would have slowed him down enough for the out of position safeties to get him for a minimal gain.

I don't see how this is even a debate.

[Legacy User]

He was held and tackled. The photo posted here showing the bear hug is from a gif from behind the line of scrimmage. If you watch the entire sequence you can see he was plainly held and tackled. Had he not held him, Timmons would have slowed him down enough for the out of position safeties to get him for a minimal gain.

I don't see how this is even a debate.

BLASPHEMY

Zivco has scrubbed the tape in between reviewing Shazier college highlights and has determined NO HOLDING. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/08/st ... -jennings/

What's hilarious is Ziv attempted to prove his point with a gif from the same link that clearly showed and explained how it was a hold. So why not include the hold pics?

[Legacy User]

That's a pretty clear-cut case of holding. Not sure how anyone could dispute that one.

[Legacy User]

That's a pretty clear-cut case of holding. Not sure how anyone could dispute that one.

You dispute it if you are blinded by agenda.

[Legacy User]

Surprised he didnt go with

"You photoshopped that hand in there" defense.

There is no question it was a hold in every sense of the term. But the problem is there is no ref there with LOS to make that call because he is on the other side of the line now for "safety reasons" aka they dont want a guy in what is now prime "dink and dunk" territory.

As for the rest of the play we can argue the rest of the players being out of position. But we do have a lot of new blood over there and this is why we play preseason game so someone can get their ass reamed in a film room for a mistake that happens in a game that doesnt count.

What no one is talking about is Jones delivering on some of what he was drafted for. Or are we not doing that now- you know giving props?

[Legacy User]

You dispute it if you are blinded by agenda.

So now I have an agenda against Timmons?

That's a pretty clear-cut case of holding. Not sure how anyone could dispute that one.

Nothing to dispute...it wasn't called holding it wasn't holding.

What's hilarious is Ziv attempted to prove his point with a gif from the same link that clearly showed and explained how it was a hold. So why not include the hold pics?

I found the gif. I didn't bother to read there analysis and I didn't notice the stills either. Went back, no real analysis...his hand was around him less then a second in the middle of traffic..that is never called.

Zivco has scrubbed the tape in between reviewing Shazier college highlights and has determined NO HOLDING. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.

He was held and tackled. The photo posted here showing the bear hug is from a gif from behind the line of scrimmage. If you watch the entire sequence you can see he was plainly held and tackled. Had he not held him, Timmons would have slowed him down enough for the out of position safeties to get him for a minimal gain.

I don't see how this is even a debate.

LMAO, the uncalled holding had no effect on the play?

Wonder what else you miss when you are watching tape...

Zivco has spoken. He is right. Everyone who thinks it is holding, you are wrong.

That's just the way it is....never mind Timmons is getting bear hugged by the lineman. Zivco says it's clean, it's clean.

I see how this is going to be. You are going to spout your observations as facts, question anyone who disagrees, then dodge like a motherfucker when proven wrong.

You said he wasn't warped up, well he was. Ain't my fault you didn't see it and since you didn't you are claiming that well it wouldn't ever be called anyway based on your other observations of the same gif with the clear and very obvious hold you missed.

Did you see a flag? I missed nothing...if it's not called it wasn't a penalty. I mean if we want to start blaming referees...starting to seem like a Hags site post SB loss up in this motherfucker...that never gets called. Never.