Cowher to the Hall of Fame

A place to talk Steelers football and what else is going on around the NFL
tunch
Posts: 842
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:35 am

Re: Cowher to the Hall of Fame

Post by tunch » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:29 pm

I suppose Cowher deserves credit for shepherding a bunch of players along Canton-worthy careers but his inclusion cheapens the Hall.

He had far too many big losses as a favorite.



steelmann58
Posts: 495
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:38 pm

Post by steelmann58 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:51 am

I love obviously post

Donnie Brasco
Posts: 5545
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:53 am

Post by Donnie Brasco » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:34 pm

Pabst wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:18 pm
Steelafan77 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:54 pm
So I have to ask.....

If Cowher made the HOF what does this say about Tomlin? Tomlin a lock for HOF?
Hard to say. Tony Dungy, John Madden, and Bill Parcells are all in the HOF and have similar resumes.
Madden and Parcells had a unique and significant impact on the game. Their impact goes waaaaay beyond their resumes

Tony Dungy was a mediocre coach. His TV gig will help him get in much like Cowher's

anpsteel
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:47 pm

Post by anpsteel » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:14 pm

Seemingly a lot of hate on Bill in here.

He definitely had his flaws, but...

Bill not only took a roster that had struggled for the prior 4 years - and made it an immediate super bowl contending team; he rebuilt that roster when it aged away- and made the new team a contender as well.

He did all of this while having marginal at best QBs- and a constant stream of free agents leave, without being replaced in free agency. (This also greatly reflects his personnel/roster management ability which is under-recognized. )

Despite his turtle ball tendencies- he knew when to take chances and how to coach the game to the opponent. His 95 team should have/would have beaten a heavily favored Dallas team if not for the bullshit play of "he who shall remain nameless."

Lastly, what does it say about his team development that it is widely recognized that the current coaches success was/is in large part due to the roster built by the prior coach?

Anywho- I'm glad Bill was selected, but I'm on the - I'm a little surprised he was selected team here. Also, I agree, Jimmy Johnson was/is more deserving.


Lastly, lastly, the remaining 10 "old timer" players to be inducted is announce this wednesday.

Shell and LC are both on the list, IIRC.

Both players are on that same - Hall of Very Good fence, but I think Shell gets in. Part of this is - I think the HOF is going to utilize the fan momentum of - 4 steelers and almost certainly Hard Knocks- plus the HOF game- to make Canton Pittsburgh West for the week. They'll love the story line of 2 Steeler SS's getting selected into the Hall.

User avatar
Pabst
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Post by Pabst » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:44 pm

Donnie Brasco wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:34 pm
Pabst wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:18 pm
Steelafan77 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:54 pm
So I have to ask.....

If Cowher made the HOF what does this say about Tomlin? Tomlin a lock for HOF?
Hard to say. Tony Dungy, John Madden, and Bill Parcells are all in the HOF and have similar resumes.
Madden and Parcells had a unique and significant impact on the game. Their impact goes waaaaay beyond their resumes

Tony Dungy was a mediocre coach. His TV gig will help him get in much like Cowher's
Dungy is already in. Being the first African-American coach to win a Super Bowl was his clincher.

Both Parcells and Madden are in as coaches, not contributors, which is a distinct category. I remember that being a huge debate around Madden during his induction - whether his contributions should factor in.

User avatar
K_C_
Posts: 15476
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:37 pm
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Contact:

Post by K_C_ » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:10 pm

anpsteel wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:14 pm
Seemingly a lot of hate on Bill in here.

He definitely had his flaws, but...

Bill not only took a roster that had struggled for the prior 4 years - and made it an immediate super bowl contending team; he rebuilt that roster when it aged away- and made the new team a contender as well.

He did all of this while having marginal at best QBs- and a constant stream of free agents leave, without being replaced in free agency. (This also greatly reflects his personnel/roster management ability which is under-recognized. )

Despite his turtle ball tendencies- he knew when to take chances and how to coach the game to the opponent. His 95 team should have/would have beaten a heavily favored Dallas team if not for the bullshit play of "he who shall remain nameless."

Lastly, what does it say about his team development that it is widely recognized that the current coaches success was/is in large part due to the roster built by the prior coach?

Anywho- I'm glad Bill was selected, but I'm on the - I'm a little surprised he was selected team here. Also, I agree, Jimmy Johnson was/is more deserving.


Lastly, lastly, the remaining 10 "old timer" players to be inducted is announce this wednesday.

Shell and LC are both on the list, IIRC.

Both players are on that same - Hall of Very Good fence, but I think Shell gets in. Part of this is - I think the HOF is going to utilize the fan momentum of - 4 steelers and almost certainly Hard Knocks- plus the HOF game- to make Canton Pittsburgh West for the week. They'll love the story line of 2 Steeler SS's getting selected into the Hall.
I blame Cowher 100% for the Steelers having "marginal at best QB's" though. He never, ever prioritized the position.

anpsteel
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:47 pm

Post by anpsteel » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:19 pm

K_C_ wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:10 pm
anpsteel wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:14 pm
Seemingly a lot of hate on Bill in here.

He definitely had his flaws, but...

Bill not only took a roster that had struggled for the prior 4 years - and made it an immediate super bowl contending team; he rebuilt that roster when it aged away- and made the new team a contender as well.

He did all of this while having marginal at best QBs- and a constant stream of free agents leave, without being replaced in free agency. (This also greatly reflects his personnel/roster management ability which is under-recognized. )

Despite his turtle ball tendencies- he knew when to take chances and how to coach the game to the opponent. His 95 team should have/would have beaten a heavily favored Dallas team if not for the bullshit play of "he who shall remain nameless."

Lastly, what does it say about his team development that it is widely recognized that the current coaches success was/is in large part due to the roster built by the prior coach?

Anywho- I'm glad Bill was selected, but I'm on the - I'm a little surprised he was selected team here. Also, I agree, Jimmy Johnson was/is more deserving.


Lastly, lastly, the remaining 10 "old timer" players to be inducted is announce this wednesday.

Shell and LC are both on the list, IIRC.

Both players are on that same - Hall of Very Good fence, but I think Shell gets in. Part of this is - I think the HOF is going to utilize the fan momentum of - 4 steelers and almost certainly Hard Knocks- plus the HOF game- to make Canton Pittsburgh West for the week. They'll love the story line of 2 Steeler SS's getting selected into the Hall.
I blame Cowher 100% for the Steelers having "marginal at best QB's" though. He never, ever prioritized the position.
There may be some truth to that, but until Cowher won the battle with Donahue, I'm not sure how much ability he had to get a QB.

Keeping in mind- the team's philosophy at that point was to build almost solely through the draft. It's not as if they were passing up an abundance of franchise QBs at the tail end of each round.

PennyBacker
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:41 pm

Post by PennyBacker » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:40 pm

I do not think it should be underestimated how Bill Cowher carried the Steelers brand; tough, hardnosed, intense, blue collar, grit, determination, etc. into the more modern era. We seemingly have total continuity from the 70s up to today with respect to the identity of the team. Cowher did well to resurrect the winning culture from the 70s during the 90s.

The Steelers rich history has made for exceptional parity with other teams and helped other franchises gain identity themselves. Cowher helped to answer a question which for the most part never had to be asked in Pittsburgh. The Steelers are who they are today significantly because of Bill Cowher, and the rest of the league still benefits from that work as well.

I say he deserves the Hall!

User avatar
MJG75
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:23 pm

Post by MJG75 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:51 pm

PennyBacker wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:40 pm
I do not think it should be underestimated how Bill Cowher carried the Steelers brand; tough, hardnosed, intense, blue collar, grit, determination, etc. into the more modern era. We seemingly have total continuity from the 70s up to today with respect to the identity of the team. Cowher did well to resurrect the winning culture from the 70s during the 90s.

The Steelers rich history has made for exceptional parity with other teams and helped other franchises gain identity themselves. Cowher helped to answer a question which for the most part never had to be asked in Pittsburgh. The Steelers are who they are today significantly because of Bill Cowher, and the rest of the league still benefits from that work as well.

I say he deserves the Hall!
Nothing more needs be said, IMO. I believe Bill and Mike are/were very good coaches, not great, but the contributions that you identified in this post about Coach Cowher are indisputable. I'm happy for him, and I don't have to make any apologies for it. I'm a diehard homer.

Kodiak
Posts: 15519
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:43 pm

Post by Kodiak » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:49 pm

Cowher was very deserving, IMO.

His big game losses came to Elway (twice), Brady (twice) and Aikman. All 5 teams went on to win the SB. The only real playoff flub he had was SD in the AFCC.

Sure, they were favorites in many of those games. But with a huge disadvantage at QB (and, indeed, they were victimized by pretty poor QB play in most of those games), it could be argued those teams overachieved.

In an era with a dearth of elite QB's, Cowher probably had the most success of anyone without such a QB. If Andy Reid manages to win the SB, he'll have a little better resume than Cowher.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

User avatar
K_C_
Posts: 15476
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:37 pm
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Contact:

Post by K_C_ » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:04 pm

anpsteel wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:19 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:10 pm
anpsteel wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:14 pm
Seemingly a lot of hate on Bill in here.

He definitely had his flaws, but...

Bill not only took a roster that had struggled for the prior 4 years - and made it an immediate super bowl contending team; he rebuilt that roster when it aged away- and made the new team a contender as well.

He did all of this while having marginal at best QBs- and a constant stream of free agents leave, without being replaced in free agency. (This also greatly reflects his personnel/roster management ability which is under-recognized. )

Despite his turtle ball tendencies- he knew when to take chances and how to coach the game to the opponent. His 95 team should have/would have beaten a heavily favored Dallas team if not for the bullshit play of "he who shall remain nameless."

Lastly, what does it say about his team development that it is widely recognized that the current coaches success was/is in large part due to the roster built by the prior coach?

Anywho- I'm glad Bill was selected, but I'm on the - I'm a little surprised he was selected team here. Also, I agree, Jimmy Johnson was/is more deserving.


Lastly, lastly, the remaining 10 "old timer" players to be inducted is announce this wednesday.

Shell and LC are both on the list, IIRC.

Both players are on that same - Hall of Very Good fence, but I think Shell gets in. Part of this is - I think the HOF is going to utilize the fan momentum of - 4 steelers and almost certainly Hard Knocks- plus the HOF game- to make Canton Pittsburgh West for the week. They'll love the story line of 2 Steeler SS's getting selected into the Hall.
I blame Cowher 100% for the Steelers having "marginal at best QB's" though. He never, ever prioritized the position.
There may be some truth to that, but until Cowher won the battle with Donahue, I'm not sure how much ability he had to get a QB.

Keeping in mind- the team's philosophy at that point was to build almost solely through the draft. It's not as if they were passing up an abundance of franchise QBs at the tail end of each round.
When Cowher did his best to get Shawn Andrews, instead of Ben Roethlisberger, that told me all I need to know about him. Cowher simply thought he could win big without an elite QB.

He definitely got to some big games for sure. He was a very good coach, but he learned (the hard way) that you need a big-time QB to win big.

At least his big-chinned ass needed a special QB to get it done.

StillMadAtSlobber
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:33 pm
Location: Houston

Post by StillMadAtSlobber » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:01 pm

El Kabong wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:31 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:12 am
Cowher was a damn good head coach for sure.
Um...what does KC stand for again? :lol:
I endorse this poast

W&M_Steeler
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:55 am

Post by W&M_Steeler » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:45 pm

K_C_ wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:04 pm

When Cowher did his best to get Shawn Andrews, instead of Ben Roethlisberger
Was that rumor ever substantiated? I've heard of it before, but I've never seen a source for it.

User avatar
K_C_
Posts: 15476
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:37 pm
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Contact:

Post by K_C_ » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:23 pm

W&M_Steeler wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:45 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:04 pm

When Cowher did his best to get Shawn Andrews, instead of Ben Roethlisberger
Was that rumor ever substantiated? I've heard of it before, but I've never seen a source for it.
Cowher has joked before about it. Said something along the lines of; "thank God they didn't listen to me".

User avatar
MJG75
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:23 pm

Post by MJG75 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pm

I'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.

User avatar
bradshaw2ben
Site Admin
Posts: 20194
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:51 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:30 pm

Can't argue that, MJG... but I'd also have to say that it's clear what vision Tomlin has for his team as well (it's just that we don't like it any more than most of us liked Cowher's strategy):

Play it close to the vest and make better plays at the end.

This strategy works most of the time and also doesn't work as well in the postseason. It works better because it has a QB who can make those plays, but I guess you can be inclined to such a strategy when you have the QB.

Jobu
Posts: 9748
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:58 pm

Post by Jobu » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pm

MJG75 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pm
I'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
Yep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.

I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for... :roll:

Quixotic
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:35 pm

Post by Quixotic » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:25 pm

Jobu wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pm
MJG75 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pm
I'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
Yep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.

I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for... :roll:
The Tommy Turnover era was not pound and ground. And it didn’t get to the him to the Super Bowl. Still, I get your point. Ben would probably never have generated the passing numbers he has, if Chin had stayed around.

Havoc
Posts: 4934
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:35 pm

Post by Havoc » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:34 pm

Bill Cowher is cool as shit. He just is.

He's a regular season HOF coach. Post season is a higher league and he doesn't belong, IMO, neither does Tomlin.

I view HOF coaches as guys who innovated and/or created dynasties. I also like guys who turned around franchises. Being named the HC of the Pittsburgh Steelers is a coaching gift like no other.

As I write this I am reminded that I cannot stand Mike Tomlin as a HC because he's an albatross on offense.

That said, I'm glad to see our guys get voted into the HOF, so I'll take it.

I want Donnie Shell in the HOF... and L.C. Greenwood.

Donnie Brasco
Posts: 5545
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:53 am

Post by Donnie Brasco » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:48 pm

Havoc wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:34 pm
Bill Cowher is cool as shit. He just is.

He's a regular season HOF coach. Post season is a higher league and he doesn't belong, IMO, neither does Tomlin.

I view HOF coaches as guys who innovated and/or created dynasties. I also like guys who turned around franchises. Being named the HC of the Pittsburgh Steelers is a coaching gift like no other.

As I write this I am reminded that I cannot stand Mike Tomlin as a HC because he's an albatross on offense.

That said, I'm glad to see our guys get voted into the HOF, so I'll take it.

I want Donnie Shell in the HOF... and L.C. Greenwood.
Albatross on Offense? Have you seen the defense outside of this season?

The amount of draft capital spent compared to the results produced would make Enron blush

Pray tell, what has Mike Tomlin done to a defense that he had a chance to make in his image with his input on drafting and teaching? It took him 10 years to have a dominant defense again and that was only due to the addition of Minkah.

The DB and DC "guru" hasn't done jack all with a defense in 10 years. The amount of water carrying for Tomlin is baffling

Kodiak
Posts: 15519
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:43 pm

Post by Kodiak » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:11 am

K_C_ wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:23 pm
Cowher has joked before about it. Said something along the lines of; "thank God they didn't listen to me".
I've never heard that.

I HAVE heard Rooney say "we'd all love to take credit for that pick [BEN]". He said that live in either the 2008 or 2010 AFCC.

And also that "we didn't think Ben would be there....and Cowher said "gotta take the QB". That's in Rooney's book. Any braindead fan can connect the dots and, basically, Ben unexpectedly fell in their lap and all agreed it was a no-brainer pick.

The Shane Andrews shit is complete bullshit. There's never been any credence to that rumor. None. I just gave you two examples in person, and in his book, where Rooney refutes that. And this has been said before, but still that bullshit keeps coming up. I know you hate him, but he belongs in the HOF.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

anpsteel
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:47 pm

Post by anpsteel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:46 am

Jobu wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pm
MJG75 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pm
I'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
Yep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.

I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for... :roll:
This just isn't true.

Neither the 95 or 05 teams wavered from his run first philosophy, at all. Morris/Peagram and Parker/Bettis were the backs - unless my addled brain is addledly. lol

Also to point out, that run first ideology is certainly seeing a resurgence this year. How did Balt, Hou, Tenn do?

Admittedly, the rules greatly favor the passing game, but the league is cyclical and the run will come back.

Finally, Cowher needed to go, imo, more so because the message becomes stall and the players less responsive, as time wears on. Madden was famous for saying no HC should be in place beyond 10 years. The players begin to tune out the message, and I think to some degree that's what we saw on Cowher's final teams.

anpsteel
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:47 pm

Post by anpsteel » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:48 am

Kodiak wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:11 am
K_C_ wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:23 pm
Cowher has joked before about it. Said something along the lines of; "thank God they didn't listen to me".
I've never heard that.

I HAVE heard Rooney say "we'd all love to take credit for that pick [BEN]". He said that live in either the 2008 or 2010 AFCC.

And also that "we didn't think Ben would be there....and Cowher said "gotta take the QB". That's in Rooney's book. Any braindead fan can connect the dots and, basically, Ben unexpectedly fell in their lap and all agreed it was a no-brainer pick.

The Shane Andrews shit is complete bullshit. There's never been any credence to that rumor. None. I just gave you two examples in person, and in his book, where Rooney refutes that. And this has been said before, but still that bullshit keeps coming up. I know you hate him, but he belongs in the HOF.
The only thing that I think is completely substantiated- was that Cowher was fawning over the chance of drafting Phillip Rivers. Other than that- I'm sure his board was a bit different than public perception.

Lynch
Posts: 1670
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:04 pm

Post by Lynch » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:06 am

The fact that he was able to win as much as he did WITHOUT a qb speaks volumes.

Compare this to Tomlin's coaching prowess with a HOF qb.

Havoc
Posts: 4934
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:35 pm

Post by Havoc » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:44 pm

anpsteel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:46 am
Jobu wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pm
MJG75 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pm
I'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
Yep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.

I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for... :roll:
This just isn't true.

Neither the 95 or 05 teams wavered from his run first philosophy, at all. Morris/Peagram and Parker/Bettis were the backs - unless my addled brain is addledly. lol

Also to point out, that run first ideology is certainly seeing a resurgence this year. How did Balt, Hou, Tenn do?

Admittedly, the rules greatly favor the passing game, but the league is cyclical and the run will come back.

Finally, Cowher needed to go, imo, more so because the message becomes stall and the players less responsive, as time wears on. Madden was famous for saying no HC should be in place beyond 10 years. The players begin to tune out the message, and I think to some degree that's what we saw on Cowher's final teams.
Balt is a PS fraud unless Jackson improves as a passer outside the hashes. Hou is eliminated, and Tenn is (probably) about to be.

There have ALWAYS been pound the rock teams that get fans excited in the RS only to come up short in the PS... that is the norm. It's not going to change. The exception is if you have a once every 10 year defense then you have a chance with inferior ground and pound offense.

BTW, I was listening to ESPN this morning, a guest talked about the Titans. He said they were an early game play action pass throw deep and build a lead with the pass team, that is how they game planned, and then they gave the body blows with the run game. He was adamant that the idea that they were simply ground and pound is false.

Kodiak
Posts: 15519
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:43 pm

Post by Kodiak » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:35 pm

anpsteel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:48 am
The only thing that I think is completely substantiated- was that Cowher was fawning over the chance of drafting Phillip Rivers. Other than that- I'm sure his board was a bit different than public perception.
I've heard that rumor, as well. Never really saw any confirmation. I remember they took him to dinner and there was a lot of smoke about them wanting Rivers, senior bowl and all that.

But he was off the board - never knew if they actually had Ben rated higher. If I'm remembering correctly, Rivers' stock kind of unexpectedly rose in the months before the draft. I doubt they expected any of the three QB's to be there at #11, and perhaps that is where the Shane Andrews rumor comes from.

Think about what a miracle that was. CLE - the team that's been desperately throwing draft picks at QB for over two decades - inexplicably passed on drafting Ben Roethlisberger. I'd guess Cowher, Colbert and Rooney were all in shock.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

SteelerDayTrader
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:12 pm

Post by SteelerDayTrader » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:42 pm

IIRC ??

Rivers was thought of as the most plug and play ready as a game manager

User avatar
El Kabong
Posts: 1633
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:18 pm

Post by El Kabong » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:06 am

anpsteel wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:46 am
Jobu wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pm
MJG75 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pm
I'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
Yep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.

I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for... :roll:
This just isn't true.

Neither the 95 or 05 teams wavered from his run first philosophy, at all. Morris/Peagram and Parker/Bettis were the backs - unless my addled brain is addledly. lol

Also to point out, that run first ideology is certainly seeing a resurgence this year. How did Balt, Hou, Tenn do?

Admittedly, the rules greatly favor the passing game, but the league is cyclical and the run will come back.

Finally, Cowher needed to go, imo, more so because the message becomes stall and the players less responsive, as time wears on. Madden was famous for saying no HC should be in place beyond 10 years. The players begin to tune out the message, and I think to some degree that's what we saw on Cowher's final teams.
Except that the second to last of Cowher's teams won a Super Bowl, so it wouldn't appear his message was stale then.

I remember the 95 Steelers as being a passing team, rolling out the 5 WR set for the first time complete with Slash.

955876
Posts: 921
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:24 pm

Post by 955876 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:19 am

Cowher needed to go, imo, more so because the message becomes stall and the players less responsive, as time wears on. Madden was famous for saying no HC should be in place beyond 10 years. The players begin to tune out the message, and I think to some degree that's what we saw on Cowher's final teams.
While this has some merit, if you really break it down, isn’t it highly likely that the “message” is being told to entirely new players every few years? So how would it get stale when guys that have heard it are gone?

I think part of the “stale message” notion is that coaches likely get lazy in their message and amount of work they put in. Might start resting on past accomplishments and “mailing it in” so to speak.

Look at all the new faces we have. If you simply look at tenure you could conclude Tomlin’s message is stale.

But if looking at the roster it should be fresh for a good number of them.

Dan Smith--BYU
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:33 am

Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:34 am

Hines Ward is more deserving than Cowher. Hopefully Cowher's presence will be as a lobbyist for Hines.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic