OT: Kobe Bryant 4 others Dead in Helicopter Crash

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Dan Smith--BYU
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Re: OT: Kobe Bryant 4 others Dead in Helicopter Crash

Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:20 pm

I'd save full outrage if some fool dares bring up the Eagles in the same discussion as these giants.



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Post by franco>madden » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:04 am

CORE-TEN wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:07 pm
The Jimi Hendrix Experience

Are You Experienced (1967)
Axis: Bold as Love (1967)
Electric Ladyland (1968)

Jimi Hendrix/Band of Gypsys
Band of Gypsys (1970)

Granted, he died in '70, but JFC, it would be remiss to omit his achievements in the development of R&R. Gigantic, colossal, you name it. His next project lined up before his death was supposedly a collaboration with Miles Davis. No disrespect to Led Zeppelin, the Stones, or The Who.

Imagine that for a second. In the '70's after Bitches Brew, and before We Want Miles in '82 - which I saw live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ2d0BBClr8
No disrespect incurred

A good Hendrix story is in a funny interview on youtube with Chris Squire (Yes' fantastic late bassist) recalling his first meeting with Hendrix as they prepared to play the same night at a small club in London.

Also following the Experience breakup, drummer Mitch Mitchell auditioned for Keith Emerson and Greg Lake in early 1970 before they had found Carl Palmer, but Lake was "spooked" by Mitchell, who apparently was always accompanied by an armed bodyguard in those days.

Keith Emerson did say the only guitarist he ever truly wanted to collaborate with was Jimi, and there were actually some plans made but it never came to anything (other than the humorous acronym naming the never-realized supergroup as HELP ) :lol:

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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:39 am

Hendrix once said the best guitarist he ever heard was....Terry Kath from Chicago.

I wish he had worked with Miles, some of his seventies albums suck, compared to Herbie Hancock's which were actually pretty funky and great.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:54 am

Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:39 am
Hendrix once said the best guitarist he ever heard was....Terry Kath from Chicago.

I wish he had worked with Miles, some of his seventies albums suck, compared to Herbie Hancock's which were actually pretty funky and great.
Terry was boss.
"Like Coach Tomlin always says, the slandered is the slandered. –@Pgh_Opie"

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CORE-TEN
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Post by CORE-TEN » Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:59 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:54 am
Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:39 am
Hendrix once said the best guitarist he ever heard was....Terry Kath from Chicago.

I wish he had worked with Miles, some of his seventies albums suck, compared to Herbie Hancock's which were actually pretty funky and great.
Terry was boss.
Yeah. Terry Kath was totally underrated. Completely. However, Hendrix manipulated sound/ equipment better, got the most out of his instrument, and was the showman/ front man with style. Kath was an awesome musician, but he didn't have the stage presence Hendrix had with the cultural and social impact. Two very different styles of music and fans as well.

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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:04 pm

Chicago's music from that period has stood up pretty well despite their being pinatas for the critics at the time (so was Zeppelin by the way). Make Me Smile really rips. Their later Peter Cetera/David Foster dreck makes me cringe. There was a pretty good documentary a couple of years ago on Chicago which is worth watching.

Another underrated guitarist from the late 60s is Peter Green in the original version of Fleetwood Mac which is much different than what most people are familiar with. JPJ of Zeppelin admitted "Oh Well" was the inspiration for "Black Dog". Tom Petty does a great version of "Oh Well". Good whiskey drinking music.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:32 pm

Peter green before he got acid tripped in Germany or wherever was great.

Remember when discussing Hendrix/Kath that Hendrix OPENED for Chicago on their tour. Chicago was pretty much the best band in the world for a little while there.
"Like Coach Tomlin always says, the slandered is the slandered. –@Pgh_Opie"

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Post by jewelsongs » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:09 am

You can't talk guitarists from that period without including Paul Kossoff from the band Free. He could shake more from one note than anyone alive.

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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:18 am

Speaking of senseless deaths, Terry Kath.

Also around the same time Skynyrd crash running out of gas.

Is Free the greatest one hit wonder of all time? Paul Rodgers also probably top five GOAT singer.

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Post by fractalsteel » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:13 am

Frank Zappa? Say what ya think.
Genius and the world would be a better place if he were still alive.

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Post by KCSteeler » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:29 pm

Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:56 pm
Tommy and Quadrophenia were epic. I can't argue with Moon and Entwhistle as GOAT rhythm section but they are neck and neck with Zeppelin. I would like to see both those musicals remade because the 1970s movie versions of both were kind of half-assed. Tarantino doing Tommy and Guy Ritchie directing Quadrophenia would be amazing. I saw a Broadway production of Tommy many years ago and I thought it was one of the best shows I have ever seen.

Starting 1969 the Who put out Tommy, Who's Next, Quadrophenia and Live at Leeds along with a few others. In the same period LZ put out 1-4, the Mick Taylor era Stones Let It Beed, Exile and Sticky Fingers, and the Allmans put out Fillmore East, Eat a Peach and Brothers and Sisters, while Bowie put out Ziggy, Hunky Dory, Aladdin Sane, The Man Who Sold the World, etc. Amazing talents putting out amazing 33s and in the case of Zeppelin not even releasing singles because the albums were so great.

You could just listen to those from 1969-1974 and be in a state of complete bliss. I don't think we'll ever see anything like that again. Live at Leeds and Fillmore East are the GOAT live albums.

Funny but true trivia question. In 1969 the Stones released Let It Bleed, the who released Tommy and the Beatles released Abbey Road. What was the number one hit single that year?

PS If the Yardbirds had one less virtuoso guitarist and Pete Townshend, could they have been the greatest group ever? Tarantino has this funny idea in Deathproof about him joining Dave Dean, Dizzy, Beaky, Mick and Tich but they're C-list compared to the Yardbirds.

And let's not forget that that same period was the golden age of classic R&B.
Excellent post. Agree on all counts.
"If it ain't broke, don't break it"....Charles Oakley

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Post by Quixotic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:06 pm

Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:41 pm
"Don't forget, Stevie used heavy wire and she still was able to bend such with ferocity."

And in that vid, he still breaks the fourth string with his mighty fingers and plays behind his back.

I wonder what number he would hit on a Jamar dynamometer of grip strength.

I couldn't understand why Zep would break up instead of just getting another drummer when Bonham went (apparently forty shots of vodka). Then I listened on headphones and thought, yeah, they did the right thing. GOAT rock drummer.
Particularly on the ride cymbal, Bonham routinely violated the laws of physics and messed with the space-time continuum. I wasn’t even particularly a fan. But you have to acknowledge a natural phenomenon.

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Post by Quixotic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:07 pm

Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:57 pm
Yeah, I agree the golden years were 1970-1975.

I can't imagine Jimmy Page's five year affair with a 15 year old would get blown off these days either.
She was 15 for five years? Must have been born on Feb 29. 8-)

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Post by Quixotic » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:19 pm

Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:39 am
Hendrix once said the best guitarist he ever heard was....Terry Kath from Chicago.

I wish he had worked with Miles, some of his seventies albums suck, compared to Herbie Hancock's which were actually pretty funky and great.
There are a few great, under-recognized, “guitar player’s” guitar players from that era. A guy who makes my jaw drop every time I listen to his work is Roy Buchanan. Dude was bizarro. I mean seriously weird. Someone said if he couldn’t play the guitar he would have been just another homeless drunk (and he almost was anyway). But at his best… And he mostly did it without pedals. Just Roy squeezing tone out of a telecaster.

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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:21 pm

Page actually met that girl when she was 14 continued for five years then dumped her for Liv Tyler's mom who also banged Elvis Costello.

Rae Dawn Chong said she banged Jagger when she was 15 but she was like, eh, it was the free love era and she wanted it.

That would never fly today.

I think the only Zep who wouldn't be in prison was JPJ. By the end he was staying in his own hotel. I can see that. By your midtwenties that shit gets real old unless you're also regressed.

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Post by Havoc » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:50 pm

Young guitarists figured out the most skilled guitarists in the 70's weren't the rock guitarists, they were the jazz guitarists. They studied their technique and applied it to their own style of music.

There is a long list of guitarists mainstream has never heard of who play circles around the usual guys that pop up on popular lists of "best guitarists".

In the 90's a lot of kids learning to play went a different direction, saying the guitarists with the most skill played "too many notes". They had no interest in learning their technique and getting to their skill level. That was the word from guitar stores in the 90's.

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Post by fractalsteel » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:36 pm

Quixotic wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:19 pm
Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:39 am
Hendrix once said the best guitarist he ever heard was....Terry Kath from Chicago.

I wish he had worked with Miles, some of his seventies albums suck, compared to Herbie Hancock's which were actually pretty funky and great.
There are a few great, under-recognized, “guitar player’s” guitar players from that era. A guy who makes my jaw drop every time I listen to his work is Roy Buchanan. Dude was bizarro. I mean seriously weird. Someone said if he couldn’t play the guitar he would have been just another homeless drunk (and he almost was anyway). But at his best… And he mostly did it without pedals. Just Roy squeezing tone out of a telecaster.
Buchanan was truly, truly a great guitarist. 'Live Stock' is incredible.
Another underrated guitarist that I loved from that era was Tommy Bolin. Another tragic death because of chemicals. I saw him with Deep Purple the year he replaced Blackmore(another great guitarist).

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Post by fractalsteel » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:41 pm

Havoc wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:50 pm
Young guitarists figured out the most skilled guitarists in the 70's weren't the rock guitarists, they were the jazz guitarists. They studied their technique and applied it to their own style of music.

There is a long list of guitarists mainstream has never heard of who play circles around the usual guys that pop up on popular lists of "best guitarists".

In the 90's a lot of kids learning to play went a different direction, saying the guitarists with the most skill played "too many notes". They had no interest in learning their technique and getting to their skill level. That was the word from guitar stores in the 90's.
Interesting.
The 90's had grunge and then on the other side of the guitar you had the speed technique guys-Satriani, Vai, etc.
Curt Cobain was a horrible guitarist in the grunge era but they had that sound. Always have loved Jerry Cantrell as a guitarist songwriter even though he is one of the biggest assholes you will ever come across.

Agree about guitarists out there who are playing bars and clubs but can out play the mainstream guys.

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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:50 am

Hooks and originality>>>chops

Good chops plus hooks>>>great chops and self-indulgence

why Miles is better than Dizzy

and why Keith Richards is a household name and John Petrucci isn't

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Post by CORE-TEN » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:42 pm

Sorry. Miles and Dizzy cannot be compared. Same instrument, different approach, different perspective.

It's like comparing peaches to nectarines.

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Post by Dan Smith--BYU » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:49 pm

Bebop may be the most complex and interesting musical form ever invented but it has a limited commercial appeal. Even Louis Armstrong called it Chinese music. If it were food it would be uni sushi, the pinnacle of a few who get it and who really appreciate it but disliked by most.

The post-bop of Horace Silver/Art Blakey and cool jazz of Miles is a lot more accessible without selling out. The Miles-influenced rock guitar of David Gilmour (i.e. Time or Comfortably Numb) has outlasted the shredding solos of the eighties and nineties which reached a dead end after Eruption.

I'm not putting down Charlie Parker or Dizzy, and I adore Bud Powell, but speed playing through complex changes was never going to have a wide appeal. There's no drop-off in quality from sheets of sound Coltrane to ballad Coltrane (Naima).

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