Full stadiums in September

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tbsteel
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Re: Full stadiums in September

Post by tbsteel » Thu May 28, 2020 3:21 pm

zeke5123 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:13 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:29 pm
tbsteel wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 1:42 pm
I think a temporary shutdown made sense when it initially occurred since there was so little we know about this virus. But you're telling me in a state like Kentucky where they had less than 100 people in ICU for this last week in a state of over 4 million that certain "non-essential" businesses have to remain closed, or can only operate at a limited capacity or at enough capacity where they're guaranteed to lose money so why even bother, where 40% of the state has filed for unemployment.... sorry, that's weak sauce. It's poor leadership driven by politics. Because that's all this country is anymore: my camp vs. your camp and fuck you if you step out of line.
I'm not telling you anything, but you aren't responding to my questions.

DeWine, following Acton, said we had to shutdown because we lacked testing. Given what was known at the time, that does not seem unreasonable. KY, like all other 50 states, has already opened back up. And it is disingenuous to complain that KY has less than 100 ICU cases since, of course, we have no idea how bad things would be had we not been shut down.

I say again: the rationale for shutting down was lack of testing and the super low case numbers do not indicate that shutting down and for how long was wrong. The low numbers may be (we cannot know for sure) the result of the length and severity of the shut downs.

Seems to me there's a lot of weak sauce in a lot of dishes, as they are being prepared and presented, TB.

I agree that the tribalism is depressing in the extreme and I worry all the time that my views may have tribal influences. But that's why talking to each other in good faith is important.

I don't think you're dumb, but I am not altogether convinced your inferences are justified.
I actually agree that shutting down was justified at the time. But the more data we get, the more it seems clear that lock down is no longer justified. Indeed, it seems the big problem was a mistake a few governers (e.g., Cuomo, Wolfe) made with respect to nursing homes (rushing the infected patients back into the nursing homes). Flordia had a lot more success isolating nursing home patients that tested positve.

If we do our best to target at-risk communities, I think we can contiune re-opening. Sadly, I do think re-opening has become (for some reason) a partisan issue.
.


Tiny hands, smaller heart.

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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Thu May 28, 2020 3:44 pm

zeke5123 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:13 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:29 pm
tbsteel wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 1:42 pm
I think a temporary shutdown made sense when it initially occurred since there was so little we know about this virus. But you're telling me in a state like Kentucky where they had less than 100 people in ICU for this last week in a state of over 4 million that certain "non-essential" businesses have to remain closed, or can only operate at a limited capacity or at enough capacity where they're guaranteed to lose money so why even bother, where 40% of the state has filed for unemployment.... sorry, that's weak sauce. It's poor leadership driven by politics. Because that's all this country is anymore: my camp vs. your camp and fuck you if you step out of line.
I'm not telling you anything, but you aren't responding to my questions.

DeWine, following Acton, said we had to shutdown because we lacked testing. Given what was known at the time, that does not seem unreasonable. KY, like all other 50 states, has already opened back up. And it is disingenuous to complain that KY has less than 100 ICU cases since, of course, we have no idea how bad things would be had we not been shut down.

I say again: the rationale for shutting down was lack of testing and the super low case numbers do not indicate that shutting down and for how long was wrong. The low numbers may be (we cannot know for sure) the result of the length and severity of the shut downs.

Seems to me there's a lot of weak sauce in a lot of dishes, as they are being prepared and presented, TB.

I agree that the tribalism is depressing in the extreme and I worry all the time that my views may have tribal influences. But that's why talking to each other in good faith is important.

I don't think you're dumb, but I am not altogether convinced your inferences are justified.
I actually agree that shutting down was justified at the time. But the more data we get, the more it seems clear that lock down is no longer justified. Indeed, it seems the big problem was a mistake a few governers (e.g., Cuomo, Wolfe) made with respect to nursing homes (rushing the infected patients back into the nursing homes). Flordia had a lot more success isolating nursing home patients that tested positve.

If we do our best to target at-risk communities, I think we can contiune re-opening. Sadly, I do think re-opening has become (for some reason) a partisan issue.
As has been said multiple times, the lack of federal response and preparedness - the dissolution of the rapid response department set up by obama - is what caused the immediate and severe lockdown. But I contest the point that cuomo and whoever made mistakes. As per Cuomo :

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/23/politics ... index.html
"I just want to reiterate once again that the policy that the Department of Health put out was in line directly with the March 13 directive put out by (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and (Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services) that read, and I quote, 'Nursing homes should admit any individuals from hospitals where Covid is present,'" said Secretary to the Governor Melissa DeRosa on Saturday during a briefing. "Not could, should ... that is President (Donald) Trump's CMS and CDC.

"There are over a dozen states that did the exact same thing, many of whom were concerned about hospital capacity. ... Obviously any death is an unfortunate death," DeRosa said, listing the totals from other states amongst New York's. "It's been a national and international tragedy that everybody has had to grapple with and it is something that we're trying to learn from every day and move forward."

Cuomo, a Democrat, said later in the briefing that he was trying to depoliticize the issue by saying, "New York followed the President's agency's guidance, so that de-politicizes it. What New York did was follow what the Republican administration said to do.

"So don't criticize this state for following the President's policy."

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued a memorandum on March 13 stating, in part, "Nursing homes should admit any individuals that they would normally admit to their facility, including individuals from hospitals where a case of COVID-19 was/is present."
All indicators point to the federal government dropping the ball. After cuomo and others decided the feds were full of shit, disorganized, unprepared, and looking to distract and shift blame, is when they took matters into their own hands. That's not a partisan issue. Its the facts. Governors were looking to the feds in the beginning stages becuase that's how it's done, and followed federal guidelines set up by you guessed it. The trump administration. Same goes for the WHO. Here's the tweet from the WHO.

World Health Organization (WHO)

@WHO
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China.

The WHO simply repeated what china told them. Governors simply followed federal guidelines until it was obvious they were incompetent. Stealing PPE from states? Governors hiding tests? That's some first class ineptitude right there. I wouldn't want this admin managing a one car parade.

I agree a blanket lockdown is wrong at this point, and every state is different. All cities are different. All businesses are different. But the notion that business is the same as a life is absurd. If the economy weren't set up to let those people fall through the cracks, then we wouldn't be screaming about poverty, domestic violence, and starvation. The tax cut, a revolving door of personnel, and budget literally hamstrung the response and preparation for a financial hit like this.

Yeah. Open business. But if anyone expects the populace of the US to act responsibly, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Last edited by COR-TEN on Thu May 28, 2020 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

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Professor Half Wit
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Post by Professor Half Wit » Thu May 28, 2020 3:57 pm

zeke5123 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:13 pm
I actually agree that shutting down was justified at the time. But the more data we get, the more it seems clear that lock down is no longer justified. Indeed, it seems the big problem was a mistake a few governers (e.g., Cuomo, Wolfe) made with respect to nursing homes (rushing the infected patients back into the nursing homes). Flordia had a lot more success isolating nursing home patients that tested positve.

If we do our best to target at-risk communities, I think we can contiune re-opening. Sadly, I do think re-opening has become (for some reason) a partisan issue.
100% agree.

As testing continues to ramp up, as well as tracing ability, we'll be able to take targeted measures when flare ups occur. I do not believe for a second the lockdowns would have lasted as long or been as severe if we had had adequate testing and tracing measures in place.

Wearing masks, re-opening. It's submental to make this stuff political.
“Being a fan is fine, but there is a line you can cross that makes it really unhealthy,” said Ken Yeager, PhD, a mental health expert in the department of psychiatry at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center.

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Post by zeke5123 » Thu May 28, 2020 3:58 pm

I agree that the CDC is an over bloated bureaucratic nightmare.

But Cuomo doesn't get off the hook. Compare what Desantis did with what Cuomo did (despite nursing homes pleading with Cuomo). You are saying the CDC made the wrong call. I agree. Cuomo made the wrong call listening to the CDC but...well continued to make the wrong call long after 13 March 2020.

So even if you want to give Cuomo a break on the early call, refusing to change was a diaster he was personally responsible for.

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Post by Professor Half Wit » Thu May 28, 2020 4:00 pm

CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:44 pm
Yeah. Open business. But if anyone expects the populace of the US to act responsibly, then I have a bridge to sell you.
I'll say 70% of the populace is going to act responsibly. 30% will be careless and / or selfish morons.
“Being a fan is fine, but there is a line you can cross that makes it really unhealthy,” said Ken Yeager, PhD, a mental health expert in the department of psychiatry at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center.

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Post by zeke5123 » Thu May 28, 2020 4:00 pm

Also Cor-Ten go fuck yourself. The American population already started social distancing before lock-downs, etc. By and large, they have acted responsible. Being holy than thou is an annoying attitude.

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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Thu May 28, 2020 4:16 pm

Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:29 pm
I agree that the tribalism is depressing in the extreme and I worry all the time that my views may have tribal influences. But that's why talking to each other in good faith is important.
Ah, go fuck yourself.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

Baltostiller
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Post by Baltostiller » Thu May 28, 2020 4:29 pm

El Kabong wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:44 am
Baltostiller wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:17 pm
El Kabong wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 4:19 am


And the evidence for that is what exactly?
Dr. Birx herself said this 2 weeks ago. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB13R4Wn

Before you start, I understand that other people think that it was undercounted but they were talking about the very beginning of the outbreak. Not now. They have also stated that, unlike other countries, we count anyone dying with covid-19 as an official covid-19 death regardless of the actual cause of death (i.e. heart attack, stroke, etc). That equals inflated numbers to me.
Oooooooh, Dr. BIRX said it. **cough** **cough** Well, that changes everything.

And I've read the opposite. Someone has the COVID and they die of another cause, the other cause gets put on the death certificate.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... usting-too
Yeah, Fauci is fucking brilliant. He is a beaurocrat who hasn't seen a patient since his resideny..

Who said this on January 21 " coronavirus was “not a major threat to the people of the United States.”
And again on February 26 said “Travel restrictions become almost irrelevant because you can’t keep out the entire world.”
February 29th said no need for Americans to “change anything what you’re doing on a day-by-day basis”
March 9th said “If you are a healthy young person, there is no reason if you want to go on a cruise ship, go on a cruise ship,”
Also March 9th the decision to hold a campaign rally the next day would be a “good judgment” if it were held at a venue where there was no “community spread.”
Then March 12th. WHOOPSIE...he believed certain travel restrictions have “absolutely” helped with the prevention of the spread of the coronavirus.
Then April 11th...the dumbfuck reversed course. that it was “in January” when he believed that this was a problem Americans needed to worry about, which contrasts several of his previous remarks made that month and the months following, including his remarks on the Today Show in February.
Those were all Fauci. Yeah, I'm not listening to a fucking word this clown says...
I'll see your Birx and raise you a Fauci:
"Almost certainly it's higher," said Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, at a virtual Senate hearing on Tuesday. "There may have been people who died at home who were not counted as COVID because they never really got to the hospital."
What it tells us: How many people have died with the official cause of death listed as "COVID-19" — excluding those who died of the disease but were not identified as COVID-19 casualties. These numbers generally represent a conservative count of deaths and will likely be revised upward on review. But they are probably more accurate than case counts. "The [under]reporting issue for death numbers is less severe than case numbers, but it still exists," says Sen Pei, a public health research scientist at Columbia University.

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Texas Black & Gold
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Post by Texas Black & Gold » Thu May 28, 2020 4:54 pm

Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:00 pm
CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:44 pm
Yeah. Open business. But if anyone expects the populace of the US to act responsibly, then I have a bridge to sell you.
I'll say 70% of the populace is going to act responsibly. 30% will be careless and / or selfish morons.
I wonder how you define responsibly, careless and selfish? 30% is nearly 100 million people.
I think people complied with the shutdowns in the beginning because it was essentially an unknown. But now that people have much more information they are more confident in their ability to mitigate their exposure. Businesses and consumers will adjust as long as things are reasonable.
Secure NHALS early and then go deep into the PLAYOFFS. :D :D :D

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Post by Baltostiller » Thu May 28, 2020 5:11 pm

By the way, Trump didn't "disband the pandemic task force" He simply shrunk the NSC staff that had quadrupled under Obama/Bush since the Clinton years.

Tim Morrison, former senior director for counterproliferation and biodefense on the NSC, explains the streamlining of departments and offices that took place to increase efficiency.

It has been alleged by multiple officials of the Obama administration, including in The Post, that the president and his then-national security adviser, John Bolton, “dissolved the office” at the White House in charge of pandemic preparedness. Because I led the very directorate assigned that mission, the counterproliferation and biodefense office, for a year and then handed it off to another official who still holds the post, I know the charge is specious.

Yawn...

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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Thu May 28, 2020 5:29 pm

Morrison now works for the Hudson Institute. A conservative organization.

And cutting funding is effectively the same as dissolving the office. It's a neat tactic. Cut off their blood supply, and it goes away. Because you know, gubmint is too big. "Streamlining." Uh Huh. Ok.
CONCLUSIONS
There is disagreement over how to describe the changes at the NSC’s Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense in 2018. The departure of some members due to “streamlining” efforts under John Bolton is documented. The “pandemic response team” as a unit was largely disbanded.

VERDICT​
Partly false: The Trump administration disbanded the “pandemic response” team, but some of the team members were reassigned to roles that included pandemic response
If it was all organized and managed, why the shitty response to this? Oh wait. It's cuomo's fault. It's the WHO's fault. It's everybody's fault except mismanagement at the federal level.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN21C32M

Yawn.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

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Post by Professor Half Wit » Thu May 28, 2020 5:40 pm

CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:16 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 2:29 pm
I agree that the tribalism is depressing in the extreme and I worry all the time that my views may have tribal influences. But that's why talking to each other in good faith is important.
Ah, go fuck yourself.
LULZ
“Being a fan is fine, but there is a line you can cross that makes it really unhealthy,” said Ken Yeager, PhD, a mental health expert in the department of psychiatry at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center.

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Post by Professor Half Wit » Thu May 28, 2020 5:44 pm

Texas Black & Gold wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:54 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:00 pm
CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:44 pm
Yeah. Open business. But if anyone expects the populace of the US to act responsibly, then I have a bridge to sell you.
I'll say 70% of the populace is going to act responsibly. 30% will be careless and / or selfish morons.
I wonder how you define responsibly, careless and selfish? 30% is nearly 100 million people.
I think people complied with the shutdowns in the beginning because it was essentially an unknown. But now that people have much more information they are more confident in their ability to mitigate their exposure. Businesses and consumers will adjust as long as things are reasonable.
Following public health guidelines about masks and social distancing while using their own discretion in particular situations rather than their own local militia leader's advice.
“Being a fan is fine, but there is a line you can cross that makes it really unhealthy,” said Ken Yeager, PhD, a mental health expert in the department of psychiatry at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center.

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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Thu May 28, 2020 6:03 pm

“Sorry, no mask allowed,” read the poster taped to the front door of his bar Friday. “Please bare with us thru the ridiculous fearful times.”

Yet in the emergent culture war over masks, a handful of businesses — the Liberty Tree Tavern among them — are fashioning themselves as fortresses for the resistance.

“If we’re only allowed to be at 25 percent capacity, I want them to be the 25 percent of people that aren’t p-----, that aren’t sheep,” Smith told The Washington Post. “Being scared all the time isn’t good for your health. It suppresses your immune system.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... ronavirus/

Oh yeah. That's responsible behavior and not partisan at all. . .
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Thu May 28, 2020 6:28 pm

Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:00 pm
CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:44 pm
Yeah. Open business. But if anyone expects the populace of the US to act responsibly, then I have a bridge to sell you.
I'll say 70% of the populace is going to act responsibly. 30% will be careless and / or selfish morons.
I've posted this before on this board. A retired black cop wrote a piece on vox about good cops vs bad. He suggested 15% are good, and 15% are bad. The rest of the 70% follow whoever they are partnered with.

I found it to be an astute observation. Same can be applied here, with social responsibility. We cannot ignore social pressure, especially with the advent of social media. . . I just read that 80% of the tweets about opening the "economy" come from 20% of users. And most are bots. Like all tweets. How much influence does that have on people's behavior? A lot, apparently. . .
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

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Post by Donnie Brasco » Thu May 28, 2020 7:44 pm

stinger8 wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 1:19 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:44 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:05 pm


I think many folks believe this pandemic is over or ending.

:lol:

Far from it.
I'm not in the forecasting business. I think if the testing continues to ramp up and we get serious about testing and tracing, we'll be able to control it in the Fall. But much depends on whether people are going to be willing in general to follow guidelines. Many think such requests impinge on their freedom or manhood, so we'll see.
I agree. Get the curve really flattened then continue significant levels of testing, then when a case is uncovered immediate quarantine, track contacts of said case test them and quarantine those that are positive rinse and repeat millions of times. People out and about wear a mask, continue social distancing when out and about. This would allow most commerce to continue, and people to have semblance of a normal life. Over time (a few months???) a heard immunity situation should start to evolve and case numbers and illnesses should stay contained enough to allow a return to normalcy. Still a ways to go.
Uh the curve has been flattened. As we sit here today there are no hospitals over run. We were asked to bide them time- we did.
I'm not saying 100% open back up, but there are governors who are not taking a county by county approach and instead keeping the entire state locked down because 1 county isn't doing so hot (Michigan). This is an onerous approach and not reasonable by any means.

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Post by Donnie Brasco » Thu May 28, 2020 7:45 pm

CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:28 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:00 pm
CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:44 pm
Yeah. Open business. But if anyone expects the populace of the US to act responsibly, then I have a bridge to sell you.
I'll say 70% of the populace is going to act responsibly. 30% will be careless and / or selfish morons.
I've posted this before on this board. A retired black cop wrote a piece on vox about good cops vs bad. He suggested 15% are good, and 15% are bad. The rest of the 70% follow whoever they are partnered with.

I found it to be an astute observation. Same can be applied here, with social responsibility. We cannot ignore social pressure, especially with the advent of social media. . . I just read that 80% of the tweets about opening the "economy" come from 20% of users. And most are bots. Like all tweets. How much influence does that have on people's behavior? A lot, apparently. . .
I'd agree with those statistics

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Post by Texas Black & Gold » Thu May 28, 2020 7:52 pm

The way the NFL is proceeding by selling tickets to fill the stadiums almost forces them to open at 100% or no fans at all. I just purchased a ticket for the Denver game. There was nothing about 25% or 50% capacity contingency. The only the stipulation was that if the game is canceled or fans can not attend you will get a refund. If the game is postponed the ticket will still be valid. Lets assume a game sells out, then it is determined that it is not safe to attend without practicing social distancing etc., how on earth can the NFL just let 25% or 50% of the ticket holders attend? How would they choose which tickets to honor? It seems to me it is all in or no fan attendance.
Last edited by Texas Black & Gold on Thu May 28, 2020 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Secure NHALS early and then go deep into the PLAYOFFS. :D :D :D

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Post by Donnie Brasco » Thu May 28, 2020 7:52 pm

CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 3:44 pm

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued a memorandum on March 13 stating, in part, "Nursing homes should admit any individuals that they would normally admit to their facility, including individuals from hospitals where a case of COVID-19 was/is present."
All indicators point to the federal government dropping the ball. After cuomo and others decided the feds were full of shit, disorganized, unprepared, and looking to distract and shift blame, is when they took matters into their own hands. That's not a partisan issue. Its the facts. Governors were looking to the feds in the beginning stages becuase that's how it's done, and followed federal guidelines set up by you guessed it. The trump administration. Same goes for the WHO. Here's the tweet from the WHO.

World Health Organization (WHO)

@WHO
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China.

The WHO simply repeated what china told them. Governors simply followed federal guidelines until it was obvious they were incompetent. Stealing PPE from states? Governors hiding tests? That's some first class ineptitude right there. I wouldn't want this admin managing a one car parade.

I agree a blanket lockdown is wrong at this point, and every state is different. All cities are different. All businesses are different. But the notion that business is the same as a life is absurd. If the economy weren't set up to let those people fall through the cracks, then we wouldn't be screaming about poverty, domestic violence, and starvation. The tax cut, a revolving door of personnel, and budget literally hamstrung the response and preparation for a financial hit like this.

Yeah. Open business. But if anyone expects the populace of the US to act responsibly, then I have a bridge to sell you.
[/quote]

I'm glad you agree that the WHO repeated what China told them. That is a dereliction of duty on it's face.
If I'm a mechanic buying a used car and I hear a funny noise I'm going to ask the salesman about it. Should I take whatever he says at face value?
Nope- I'm the fucking expert and I should pop the hood myself to investigate.

That's the WHO's job. Plus the WHO isn't entirely funded by China but a number of other countries- they lose their credibility and objectivity if they kowtow to just 1 country. Hmmm...wonder why they would do such a thing! Oh yea the head of WHO has major political ties to the CCP.

The WHO and CDC both come across as fuckheads in this entire thing.

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jebrick
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Post by jebrick » Thu May 28, 2020 7:56 pm

Texas Black & Gold wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:52 pm
The way the NFL is proceeding by selling tickets to fill the stadiums almost forces them to open at 100% or no fans at all. I just purchased a ticket for the Denver game. There was nothing about 25% or 50% capacity contingency. The only the stipulation was that if the game is canceled or fans can not attend you will get a refund. If the game is postponed the ticket will still be valid. Lets assume a game sells out, then it is determined that it is not safe to attend without practicing social distancing etc., how on earth can the NFL just let 25% or 50% of the ticket holders attend? How would they choose which tickets honor? It seems to me it is all in or no fan attendance.
The Steelers are only selling 50% of their tickets at this point.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 248960002/
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Pabst
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Post by Pabst » Thu May 28, 2020 7:56 pm

Donnie Brasco wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:45 pm
CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:28 pm
Professor Half Wit wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:00 pm


I'll say 70% of the populace is going to act responsibly. 30% will be careless and / or selfish morons.
I've posted this before on this board. A retired black cop wrote a piece on vox about good cops vs bad. He suggested 15% are good, and 15% are bad. The rest of the 70% follow whoever they are partnered with.

I found it to be an astute observation. Same can be applied here, with social responsibility. We cannot ignore social pressure, especially with the advent of social media. . . I just read that 80% of the tweets about opening the "economy" come from 20% of users. And most are bots. Like all tweets. How much influence does that have on people's behavior? A lot, apparently. . .
I'd agree with those statistics
For those that care, this is called the Pareto Principle. Or, more simply, the 80/20 rule.

It can be found in all kinds of places. Ex: 80% of tweets come from 20% of users. 80% of drugs are consumed by 20% of users. 80% of wealth is held by 20% of the population.

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Texas Black & Gold
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Post by Texas Black & Gold » Thu May 28, 2020 8:01 pm

jebrick wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:56 pm
Texas Black & Gold wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:52 pm
The way the NFL is proceeding by selling tickets to fill the stadiums almost forces them to open at 100% or no fans at all. I just purchased a ticket for the Denver game. There was nothing about 25% or 50% capacity contingency. The only the stipulation was that if the game is canceled or fans can not attend you will get a refund. If the game is postponed the ticket will still be valid. Lets assume a game sells out, then it is determined that it is not safe to attend without practicing social distancing etc., how on earth can the NFL just let 25% or 50% of the ticket holders attend? How would they choose which tickets honor? It seems to me it is all in or no fan attendance.
The Steelers are only selling 50% of their tickets at this point.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 248960002/
Just curious did that take into account spacing already? The site I purchased my tickets had several tickets available all around me.
Secure NHALS early and then go deep into the PLAYOFFS. :D :D :D

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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Thu May 28, 2020 8:23 pm

Pabst wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:56 pm
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:45 pm
CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:28 pm
I've posted this before on this board. A retired black cop wrote a piece on vox about good cops vs bad. He suggested 15% are good, and 15% are bad. The rest of the 70% follow whoever they are partnered with.

I found it to be an astute observation. Same can be applied here, with social responsibility. We cannot ignore social pressure, especially with the advent of social media. . . I just read that 80% of the tweets about opening the "economy" come from 20% of users. And most are bots. Like all tweets. How much influence does that have on people's behavior? A lot, apparently. . .
I'd agree with those statistics
For those that care, this is called the Pareto Principle. Or, more simply, the 80/20 rule.

It can be found in all kinds of places. Ex: 80% of tweets come from 20% of users. 80% of drugs are consumed by 20% of users. 80% of wealth is held by 20% of the population.
Yeah. Maybe I have the percentages wrong. It was from memory. But here, see if this helps round out context -

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/news/nearly-half ... ay-be-bots

https://www.businessinsider.com/nearly- ... 020-5?op=1

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/carnegie ... 85c39ba7d0

Does that change anything? How many tweets are from bots in general? Maybe you have a better source to verify these numbers, but I thought it was common knowledge that most tweets are bots, and they represent a vast minority.

The point I was trying to make was that a minority of tweeters and protesters do not represent the majority of the public. So when we hear all this chatter about open the economy, we don't really know if it is representative of the country. As someone who decries media bias and hypocrisy, I thought you would appreciate that fact.
Last edited by COR-TEN on Thu May 28, 2020 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to shit on the board and strut around like it won anyway.

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Texas Black & Gold
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Post by Texas Black & Gold » Thu May 28, 2020 8:46 pm

jebrick wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:56 pm
Texas Black & Gold wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:52 pm
The way the NFL is proceeding by selling tickets to fill the stadiums almost forces them to open at 100% or no fans at all. I just purchased a ticket for the Denver game. There was nothing about 25% or 50% capacity contingency. The only the stipulation was that if the game is canceled or fans can not attend you will get a refund. If the game is postponed the ticket will still be valid. Lets assume a game sells out, then it is determined that it is not safe to attend without practicing social distancing etc., how on earth can the NFL just let 25% or 50% of the ticket holders attend? How would they choose which tickets honor? It seems to me it is all in or no fan attendance.
The Steelers are only selling 50% of their tickets at this point.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 248960002/
Btw, thanks for the info and link. It will be interesting to see how and when the rest of the stadium will be open and who I will be sitting next to.
Secure NHALS early and then go deep into the PLAYOFFS. :D :D :D

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Pabst
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Post by Pabst » Thu May 28, 2020 8:59 pm

CORE-TEN wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:23 pm
Pabst wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:56 pm
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:45 pm


I'd agree with those statistics
For those that care, this is called the Pareto Principle. Or, more simply, the 80/20 rule.

It can be found in all kinds of places. Ex: 80% of tweets come from 20% of users. 80% of drugs are consumed by 20% of users. 80% of wealth is held by 20% of the population.
Yeah. Maybe I have the percentages wrong. It was from memory. But here, see if this helps round out context -

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/news/nearly-half ... ay-be-bots

https://www.businessinsider.com/nearly- ... 020-5?op=1

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/carnegie ... 85c39ba7d0

Does that change anything? How many tweets are from bots in general? Maybe you have a better source to verify these numbers, but I thought it was common knowledge that most tweets are bots, and they represent a vast minority.

The point I was trying to make was that a minority of tweeters and protesters do not represent the majority of the public. So when we hear all this chatter about open the economy, we don't really know if it is representative of the country. As someone who decries media bias and hypocrisy, I thought you would appreciate that fact.
I wasn't disagreeing with you. Was only pointing out that this is a phenomenon that appears in many aspects of society, not just the twitter-verse.

blu
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Post by blu » Thu May 28, 2020 11:48 pm

If they allow 25%, 50% or even 100% of capacity, won't they still have to require everyone except the players to wear masks & all the players to have plastic shields on their helmets. Or has wearing a face mask/shield become too political? Meanwhile, how can wearing a face mask be political? I used to think that we Canadians were the cuckoo ones.

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Flanker
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Post by Flanker » Thu May 28, 2020 11:59 pm

- My wife is a nurse and I do HVACR and both have been essential services since this started
- There is a good chance we will both contract the virus eventually
- My father is elderly and his wife has health problems and haven't been to see them in months
- Personally, I'm not scared to die but it would be hard for my son and my father... maybe the wife but she would end up with a lot of money and she likes money
- Shutdowns were implemented to flatten the curve (which was accomplished) not to eradicate the virus
- We must open up the economy and get as back to normal as possible with some caution and common sense
- I only wear a mask where required and I wouldn't attend a packed stadium to watch football
- Roughly 1.25 million automobile fatalities worldwide each year and as much as 50 million injured or disabled
- Roughly 358,000 COVID-19 deaths worldwide in 6 months although some countries (China for example) are not accurately reporting deaths
- A relative has worked in the medical billing department for a prominent healthcare chain that operates doctors offices as well as hospitals. According to him it is a fact that anyone showing symptoms is being coded as COVID-19 due to lack of testing
- My best friends father lost his brother to lung cancer (heavy smoker) in March... He was given 2-3 months to live in January and was labeled a COVID-19 death
- The elderly and anyone at risk due to pre-existing health conditions should remain cautious and isolate as much as possible
- The rest of the reasonable portion of the population should continue on unless you are scared of dying in a car accident then you should definitely remain indoors at all times
- Reminder: There are cars out there and they could kill you or a family member

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Post by Steel Ubaldo » Fri May 29, 2020 12:27 am

jebrick wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:56 pm
Texas Black & Gold wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:52 pm
The way the NFL is proceeding by selling tickets to fill the stadiums almost forces them to open at 100% or no fans at all. I just purchased a ticket for the Denver game. There was nothing about 25% or 50% capacity contingency. The only the stipulation was that if the game is canceled or fans can not attend you will get a refund. If the game is postponed the ticket will still be valid. Lets assume a game sells out, then it is determined that it is not safe to attend without practicing social distancing etc., how on earth can the NFL just let 25% or 50% of the ticket holders attend? How would they choose which tickets honor? It seems to me it is all in or no fan attendance.
The Steelers are only selling 50% of their tickets at this point.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 248960002/
I don’t believe the above applies to season ticket holders. My season ticket invoice is due June 1st.

If anyone is interested in buying 2 PSLs, PM me.

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Texas Black & Gold
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Post by Texas Black & Gold » Fri May 29, 2020 12:36 am

Steel Ubaldo wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:27 am
jebrick wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:56 pm
Texas Black & Gold wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:52 pm
The way the NFL is proceeding by selling tickets to fill the stadiums almost forces them to open at 100% or no fans at all. I just purchased a ticket for the Denver game. There was nothing about 25% or 50% capacity contingency. The only the stipulation was that if the game is canceled or fans can not attend you will get a refund. If the game is postponed the ticket will still be valid. Lets assume a game sells out, then it is determined that it is not safe to attend without practicing social distancing etc., how on earth can the NFL just let 25% or 50% of the ticket holders attend? How would they choose which tickets honor? It seems to me it is all in or no fan attendance.
The Steelers are only selling 50% of their tickets at this point.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 248960002/
I don’t believe the above applies to season ticket holders. My season ticket invoice is due June 1st.

If anyone is interested in buying 2 PSLs, PM me.
Wow! That is incredible. This is the first time I have seen someone interested in selling their season ticket. I heard of people waiting for years at a chance to buy season tickets. I wish I could take you up on the offer but I live too far away.
Secure NHALS early and then go deep into the PLAYOFFS. :D :D :D

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Texas Black & Gold
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Post by Texas Black & Gold » Fri May 29, 2020 12:47 am

blu wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:48 pm
If they allow 25%, 50% or even 100% of capacity, won't they still have to require everyone except the players to wear masks & all the players to have plastic shields on their helmets. Or has wearing a face mask/shield become too political? Meanwhile, how can wearing a face mask be political? I used to think that we Canadians were the cuckoo ones.
If the authorities allow the stadiums to be full then I believe they would also NOT mandate masks. How could they really enforce it and would wearing masks really help at that point? Maybe the N95's would work but not the home made ones. I would buy a Steelers mask but probably not wear it the whole game unless it was mandated because of social distancing.
Secure NHALS early and then go deep into the PLAYOFFS. :D :D :D

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