Game Ball - Bud Dupree

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Pabst
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Re: Game Ball - Bud Dupree

Post by Pabst » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:04 pm

COR-TEN wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm
I don't think he's getting $15 M/ yr. /shrug
Maybe, but Brandin Cooks is a good reminder that it only takes one team to offer him a stupid contract.



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Post by Kodiak » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:08 pm

COR-TEN wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm
I don't think he's getting $15 M/ yr. /shrug
Obviously will depend on what kind of year he has. But he puts up 1200 yards and 10 TD's, he's getting a top-10 deal. And a top-10 receiver deal signed next year is probably starting at $17M per year.

A lot of teams that aren't paying huge money to QB's and struggle to spend their cap. Top players have not been hitting the FA market very often in recent years, and so when one does they tend to get overpaid with all that money sloshing around with no one else to pay it to.
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Post by zeke5123 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:15 pm

Kodiak wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:08 pm
COR-TEN wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm
I don't think he's getting $15 M/ yr. /shrug
Obviously will depend on what kind of year he has. But he puts up 1200 yards and 10 TD's, he's getting a top-10 deal. And a top-10 receiver deal signed next year is probably starting at $17M per year.

A lot of teams that aren't paying huge money to QB's and struggle to spend their cap. Top players have not been hitting the FA market very often in recent years, and so when one does they tend to get overpaid with all that money sloshing around with no one else to pay it to.
Flat cap world also makes it more complicated for FAs.

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Post by Kodiak » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:22 pm

zeke5123 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:15 pm
Flat cap world also makes it more complicated for FAs.
Maybe. But right now PIT sits at $202M in cap next year, which could be $20-$25M over. There are 12 teams (including CIN, DAL and NE, ) with over $30M available. NE and IND have almost $80M.

Depends on how many top FA's hit the market. If it's slim pickings as it's usually been, then JuJu is going to get a huge deal from someone.
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Post by Stosh-67 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:30 pm

What happened to Dupree and his claim to be paid as a DE as opposed to an OLB?

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Post by Ice » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:34 pm

Also depends how flat the cap really ends up being. The NHL, for instance, is dealing with a serious cap challenge, but with the wealth of the league, and the richness of the merchandising and TV deal, not sure where the NFL will land.

Keeping Watt, Dupree and Juju will be a near impossible task, no matter what.
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Post by Kodiak » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:51 pm

Ice wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:34 pm
Keeping Watt, Dupree and Juju will be a near impossible task, no matter what.
It depends on how much they want to borrow from the future. I don't know if they will do that for receiver when Claypool might already be JuJu's replacement.

I've seen estimates teams could lose up to $80M with no fans this year, but the owners committed to a cap of at least $175M next year. A higher cap might be unlikely because that would be giving relief to PIT, KC, and NO while 16 teams are already sitting on at least $27.6M in cap space.
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Post by Ice » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:56 pm

With the crew they have at WR, they're going to have to make a conscious effort to make sure Claypool sees enough looks to be sure that's true.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ben feels a little bad about the "Juju isn't a real #1 WR like AB" narrative that developed with Buck and Dibberty at QB last season, and will be tossing a heavy share of balls his way this year.

The cap is definitely going to be an interesting situation to monitor. Flat certainly isn't out of the question.
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Post by Kodiak » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:12 pm

Ice wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:56 pm
The cap is definitely going to be an interesting situation to monitor. Flat certainly isn't out of the question.
Possible, but I bet not because it creates a competitive advantage for half the league to keep the cap at $175M.

Otherwise, makes more sense to spread that $80M over 10 years. Flat cap next year, and then resume normal $8-$10M annual increases (meaning the cap remains arbitrarily lower by $8M every year). That would be most fair, but if you're CIN/BAL/CLE you're not agreeing to increase the cap if it means PIT can't sign JuJu. In fact, he'd be a good fit on all three of those teams.
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Post by Ice » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:54 pm

I think spreading it over time, for a league that can afford it, is probably the best way to keep competitive balance intact. The NHL situation (haven't heard enough about the NBA to know yet, but I'm in Pens offseason mode) is going to really kill teams that spend to the cap, maybe for years, because the league just can't afford it. Gonna kill us trying to keep troops around Crosby and Geno for the end of their window.

Baltimore would probably look to their own situation and go for a cap increase, and Cleveland has spread some serious money around recently, as well. Cincinnati could probably afford a spite decision, I guess.
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Post by stillthere » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:41 pm

Stosh-67 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:30 pm
What happened to Dupree and his claim to be paid as a DE as opposed to an OLB?
It will probably not be resolved until the offseason. If they rule in Bud's favor then the hit will come off of next years cap. If they had ruled before week 1 then it would of come off this years cap.

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Post by drmalba » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:06 pm

Havoc wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:03 pm
My thoughts on Dupree on a couple of those plays behind the LOS were that he came thru unblocked. There are many role players in this league that can do that.

He seems solid though and his speed is an asset. He pairs up nicely with Watt.
My thoughts as well. If we give one to Bud we should also give a game ball to Jason Garret for leaving him unblocked for large portions of the game, and not adjusting to give his rookie LT some help.

That said, Bud was still a force and the hustle on that Heyward interception play to break the Giants' heart after that 19-play drive put them on the doorstep, was great to see. I thought Vince Williams was a standout as well. Looked faster and meaner than usual. It would be great to get that kind of game from our inside rush every week.

Even through a bit of slop and slather, the run D was absolutely dominant and this defense looks very fast and tough. If we can tune a few things up this D looks like it could be every bit as good as last year and maybe even better.

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Post by LakecrestSteeler » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:41 am

Stosh-67 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:25 pm
Scunge wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:31 pm
Some really great things to see from both Watt and Dupree in last night's game, but let us give a shout out to Tomlin/Butler for finally going with a real rotation and keeping Watt and Dupree fresh.

They did not just give them breathers at the end of the game, but from the first drive of the game. When Ola was out there on the first drive for Watt I at first was scared that Watt had been injured.

The Defense was out there for 68 snaps, but Dupree had 58 snaps (85%) and Watt only 57 snaps (84%). Both only had 2 special teams snaps.

Olay Adeniyi had 11 snaps (16%) on defense and 18 snaps on special teams (69%).
Alex Highsmith had 10 snaps (15%) on defense and 18 snaps on special teams (69%).

Both of those backup OLBs played well I thought and both might have had sacks last night against a less mobile, less elusive QB. Jones really surprised me in that regard.

There was a real plan in shaving off the snaps of both starting OLBs and both starting DEs too.

Heyward was only on the field for 50 snaps (74%) and Tuitt for 55 snaps (81%). Buggs (17 snaps) and Wormley (9 snaps) had a combined 26 snaps in relief of the starting duo.

Anyway, really, really love that Tomlin/Butler have adopted this approach. Giving quality snaps to the backups gets them experienced and keeps your starters fresh for the entire game and hopefully keeps them healthy for the entire season.
Been on the same page with making sure the starters do not get over worked. Especially early in the season with no pre-season games.
Noticed Watt off the field 4-5 plays into that first drive as well.
Holding Cam and Tuit to less than 80% snaps would be ideal.

That's a good amount of snaps for Buggs.

That nice DL rotation is what kept the Giants run game and Barkley a non factor, consistently thru the 4th quarter.

I do not think Barkley will ever,............ ever have a game like that again.
15 carries, 6 yards. ( and he had 7 yards on one carry later in the game )

What is the least amount of yards a RB has ever had with 15 or more carries?
Is this a record?
Let us not forget, great QB play is the best snap count reducer!

If Duck or Rudolph were out there after Heyward int...the 3 and out would have crushed the D, and the game would have been lost.

The snap count management will be key during offensive struggles when they rear their ugly head eventually and inevitably.

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Post by LakecrestSteeler » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:01 am

Scunge wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:31 pm
Some really great things to see from both Watt and Dupree in last night's game, but let us give a shout out to Tomlin/Butler for finally going with a real rotation and keeping Watt and Dupree fresh.

They did not just give them breathers at the end of the game, but from the first drive of the game. When Ola was out there on the first drive for Watt I at first was scared that Watt had been injured.

The Defense was out there for 68 snaps, but Dupree had 58 snaps (85%) and Watt only 57 snaps (84%). Both only had 2 special teams snaps.

Olay Adeniyi had 11 snaps (16%) on defense and 18 snaps on special teams (69%).
Alex Highsmith had 10 snaps (15%) on defense and 18 snaps on special teams (69%).

Both of those backup OLBs played well I thought and both might have had sacks last night against a less mobile, less elusive QB. Jones really surprised me in that regard.

There was a real plan in shaving off the snaps of both starting OLBs and both starting DEs too.

Heyward was only on the field for 50 snaps (74%) and Tuitt for 55 snaps (81%). Buggs (17 snaps) and Wormley (9 snaps) had a combined 26 snaps in relief of the starting duo.

Anyway, really, really love that Tomlin/Butler have adopted this approach. Giving quality snaps to the backups gets them experienced and keeps your starters fresh for the entire game and hopefully keeps them healthy for the entire season.
And as you pointed out in a post several months ago about the snap count with Vance, it can help in injury prevention in addition to keeping them fresh so they can get home to the QB.

A great QB is still such a soothing elixir! Coaches can coach next level stuff instead of having their bandwidth sucked dry by trying to help Duck and Mason. Or if you are a defensive coach, trying to keep everyone fresh because Duck and Mason just did 3 and out.

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Post by Ice » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:19 pm

I think the Giants should be watching film on how the Saints deploy Alvin Kamara when planning on how to use Saquon. Their current approach is going to waste a very good talent for the best years of his career. We did an excellent job, but they use him stupidly.
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Post by jebrick » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:02 pm

Dupree should get Clowney money in the offseason. Not what Clowney asked but what he got 11M per year. THat is what you could pay a average pass rusher but a excellent run stopper ( just like Clowney). Watt should gt $30 per year
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Post by franco32 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:14 pm

Priority #1 is Watt at all costs.
Bud is worth 11-12/per. More than that, and you roll with Ola or Highsmith if they have shown promise this year.
Juju is probably gone unless he does a really friendly hometown deal and I doubt that.
Conner is a non-issue given his health.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:21 pm

franco32 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:14 pm
Priority #1 is Watt at all costs.
Bud is worth 11-12/per. More than that, and you roll with Ola or Highsmith if they have shown promise this year.
Juju is probably gone unless he does a really friendly hometown deal and I doubt that.
Conner is a non-issue given his health.
I'm with that.

But then there's Hilton, Sutton, Feiler, Banner and probably someone else I'm forgetting.
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Post by jebrick » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:11 pm

franco32 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:14 pm
Priority #1 is Watt at all costs.
Bud is worth 11-12/per. More than that, and you roll with Ola or Highsmith if they have shown promise this year.
Juju is probably gone unless he does a really friendly hometown deal and I doubt that.
Conner is a non-issue given his health.
I am not saying they should sign him. I was just stating what I thought he was worth. He may get much more on the open market.
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Post by jebrick » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:11 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:21 pm
franco32 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:14 pm
Priority #1 is Watt at all costs.
Bud is worth 11-12/per. More than that, and you roll with Ola or Highsmith if they have shown promise this year.
Juju is probably gone unless he does a really friendly hometown deal and I doubt that.
Conner is a non-issue given his health.
I'm with that.

But then there's Hilton, Sutton, Feiler, Banner and probably someone else I'm forgetting.
Villy?
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:05 pm

jebrick wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:11 pm
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:21 pm
franco32 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:14 pm
Priority #1 is Watt at all costs.
Bud is worth 11-12/per. More than that, and you roll with Ola or Highsmith if they have shown promise this year.
Juju is probably gone unless he does a really friendly hometown deal and I doubt that.
Conner is a non-issue given his health.
I'm with that.

But then there's Hilton, Sutton, Feiler, Banner and probably someone else I'm forgetting.
Villy?
Yeah, that would be another up for a deal.
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Post by El Kabong » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:45 pm

The Steelers are usually good at planning things so that only so many guys' contracts are up in a given year so they can take steps to resign them. How did we get into this mess of having so many guys up at once?
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Post by stillthere » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:11 pm

El Kabong wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:45 pm
The Steelers are usually good at planning things so that only so many guys' contracts are up in a given year so they can take steps to resign them. How did we get into this mess of having so many guys up at once?
One "problem" was having a good draft. Conner, JuJu, Sutton, Dobbs all come up at the same time. TJ gets pushed another year with the option or you extend him now to try to save some money. Bud from the year before got the 5th year option applied. Cam Heyward was already on a second contract that was just going to expire. Banner took a one year deal betting on himself otherwise he could have been locked up for a couple of year deal. Hilton I think wanted a longer deal the last 2 seasons. Villy you were not sure if he would still be the starter at this point. Just sort of a perfect storm.

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Post by COR-TEN » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:07 pm

stillthere wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:11 pm
El Kabong wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:45 pm
The Steelers are usually good at planning things so that only so many guys' contracts are up in a given year so they can take steps to resign them. How did we get into this mess of having so many guys up at once?
One "problem" was having a good draft. Conner, JuJu, Sutton, Dobbs all come up at the same time. TJ gets pushed another year with the option or you extend him now to try to save some money. Bud from the year before got the 5th year option applied. Cam Heyward was already on a second contract that was just going to expire. Banner took a one year deal betting on himself otherwise he could have been locked up for a couple of year deal. Hilton I think wanted a longer deal the last 2 seasons. Villy you were not sure if he would still be the starter at this point. Just sort of a perfect storm.
That seems to be the norm for 2020.
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