Cowher vs Tomlin Franchise QB Question?

[LakecrestSteeler]

This might be a naive question, and I was fairly young and the internet was just starting, so forgive me if it is. I can’t imagine it has not been asked, but it is an interesting question in my mind.

The argument goes that Tomlin has had a franchise QB his whole career and therefore Cowher is better yada yada yada...

Was Neil O’Donnell, excluding the Superbowl performance of course, a franchise QB that Cowher and the Steelers let get away? I know he was just pedestrian at the Jets and the Jets are pedestrian as an organization, but had Neil stayed, would he have been seen as a true franchise QB for the Steelers and should letting him go be a knock against Cowher and the front office?

[Ice]

No. The closest Cowher and Co. got to a franchise, uniquely skilled QB drafted and developed before they were forced to take Ben was Kordell Stewart. Cowher thought he could win with longshots and retreads at QB. Probably cost him at least another Super Bowl appearance or three, maybe another ring or two. He inherited his attitude from his dad.

[LakecrestSteeler]

O’Donnell’s wiki is an interesting read...he has had some bad luck in his playing career with some of his teams....high school through pros. Some of the luck seems to be out of his control, and some luck seems to be related to the tradeoff between money and available QB roles and situations.

Interesting that he made it back to the Superbowl, and I believe played a huge role in getting Tennessee there, filling in for 6 games with McNair and going 5 and 1. Beat us in the Divisionals after coming off the bench....assuming I did not make a year/season number mistake.

To bad we could not submit this to the Mythbusters equivalent for determining if he was a franchise QB that got away.

His trendlines with the Steelers were trending in the right directions....passing yards up and interceptions pointing down. Probably should have paid him the money and we may have gotten another SB to your point, as we filled the void when Buffalo finally imploded after their run.

[jewelsongs]

O'Donnell would have been a 10 to 15 rank at QB. He had the benefit of a good offensive coordinator who came up with the 5 wide out offense that fit O'Donnell's skill set. He made quick decisions, and didn't turn the ball over much (other than the super bowl). He would have fit the Steelers offense this year very well. Our franchise QBs were Bobby Layne, Bradshaw and Ben.

People tend to blame Cowher, but should equally blame Tom Donahoe, who drafted or signed the players that Cowher coached. Cowher picked two bad offensive coordinators in a row (Sherman, Gilbride,) that hurt the offense under Kordell Stewart. They really hurt Kordell's development.

[stillthere]

I personally think that if NOD comes back after the 95 season that Pittsburgh probably goes back to the Superbowl the following season and probably win it (maybe even get more than just one). They would of had Bettis and kept Kordell as Slash. That would of been an interesting system to watch.

[Quixotic]

I remember Neil O'Donnell as a JAG. He was very careful (cautious). Could make throws but rarely extended himself. Ran the plays that were called. Did his job. He was not a great leader. Not a great arm. Not special in any way. He was a solid journeyman professional. Which is not to say he was bad. He wasn’t. But he wasn’t someone you build a franchise around.

As far as quarterback talent goes, Tommy Maddox and Kordell were both high-potential guys. Don’t think we really knew how to use either of them. Tommy really wasn’t a Steeler type. And Kordell was probably ahead of his time (the athletic, running quarterback). He was actually a GREAT wide receiver. Too bad he couldn’t have gone back to that. Might have extended his career. Also, Kordell was overly emotional for an NFL quarterback. You can’t go deep in the playoffs with a quarterback who melts down when he makes a bad read.

Today’s Steelers could really use another Cholly Batch. He was a solid, loyal backup, who could hang with most NFL starters. And the team seemed to respect him as a leader. Definitely my favorite backup of all time (except maybe Earl Moral—who backed up Johnny U and Bob Griese on two Super Bowl teams).

In my memory the Steelers have had three guys who COULD have been franchise centerpieces. Ben (obviously), Bradshaw (obviously), and Terry Hanratty (who was unfortunately drafted the year before Bradshaw, so there was no opportunity or reason to see what he might have developed into). Other than that, it’s been a stream of JAGs—Don Nelson…Bubby Brister…blah, blah, blah.

[Kodiak]

This BS continues to be spread as gospel. And it's been discussed plenty.

Before the 2004 draft class, there was almost no one better Cowher could have drafted at QB. It was a long drought for QB's, even the guys who were picked ahead. The only two true franchise QB's Cowher could have landed was Tom Brady, whom even Belicheat waited until R6, and possibly Drew Brees in 2001 (PIT took Casey Hampton in R1). And there weren't really any options in FA, either. There was Kurt Warner bagging groceries at the time, but that was about it.
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

Maybe give a little credit for Kordell, whom once finished 3rd in MVP voting (2001?) and took them to 2 AFCC games. In 2001, he was still under a big contract - he was Rooney's guy, whom said when they announced the deal that Heinz field would be "the house that Kordell built".

As for Cowher being deadset on Shaun Andrews, that just isn't true. Over the years, both Cowher and Rooney had touched on this. They never expected Ben to fall to them at #11 (remember, CLE unexpectedly passed on a QB). When he was there, it was a pretty short and unanimous decision that they had to get the QB.

[stillthere]

This BS continues to be spread as gospel. And it's been discussed plenty.

Before the 2004 draft class, there was almost no one better Cowher could have drafted at QB. It was a long drought for QB's, even the guys who were picked ahead. The only two true franchise QB's Cowher could have landed was Tom Brady, whom even Belicheat waited until R6, and possibly Drew Brees in 2001 (PIT took Casey Hampton in R1). And there weren't really any options in FA, either. There was Kurt Warner bagging groceries at the time, but that was about it.
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

Maybe give a little credit for Kordell, whom once finished 3rd in MVP voting (2001?) and took them to 2 AFCC games. In 2001, he was still under a big contract - he was Rooney's guy, whom said when they announced the deal that Heinz field would be "the house that Kordell built".

As for Cowher being deadset on Shaun Andrews, that just isn't true. Over the years, both Cowher and Rooney had touched on this. They never expected Ben to fall to them at #11 (remember, CLE unexpectedly passed on a QB). When he was there, it was a pretty short and unanimous decision that they had to get the QB.

Brunell is one of the few guys that I was interested in. Then he was a pain in our sides in Jacksonville for a few years.

[LakecrestSteeler]

......Other than that, it’s been a stream of JAGs—Don Nelson…Bubby Brister…blah, blah, blah.

That made me laugh....stream of jags...classic.

Just picturing the knock on the door....in the musty dungeon of a locker room....Hi Chuck, I am jag 1, eye roll and sigh; Hi Bill, I am jag 2, jaw juts; Hi Mike, I am jag 3... “OBVIOUSLY”!

Browns I guess have had a 4800 PSI solid stream of jags. Poor bastards.

[LakecrestSteeler]

This BS continues to be spread as gospel. And it's been discussed plenty.

Before the 2004 draft class, there was almost no one better Cowher could have drafted at QB. It was a long drought for QB's, even the guys who were picked ahead. The only two true franchise QB's Cowher could have landed was Tom Brady, whom even Belicheat waited until R6, and possibly Drew Brees in 2001 (PIT took Casey Hampton in R1). And there weren't really any options in FA, either. There was Kurt Warner bagging groceries at the time, but that was about it.
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

Maybe give a little credit for Kordell, whom once finished 3rd in MVP voting (2001?) and took them to 2 AFCC games. In 2001, he was still under a big contract - he was Rooney's guy, whom said when they announced the deal that Heinz field would be "the house that Kordell built".

As for Cowher being deadset on Shaun Andrews, that just isn't true. Over the years, both Cowher and Rooney had touched on this. They never expected Ben to fall to them at #11 (remember, CLE unexpectedly passed on a QB). When he was there, it was a pretty short and unanimous decision that they had to get the QB.

I was just wondering if the argument can be made that 14 had the traits of a FQB, and an opportunity was squandered and he was uprooted before knowing the true answer. Similarly, I have to believe that the Browns have drafted at least one real FQB over the years, they just have shit soil and nothing grows. You are using history as the record of FQBs, I am just wondering if 14 was a what could have been, and when he was traded it was never going to be. Like if John Lennon’s parents moved out of Liverpool...would the Beatles have existed?

[Pabst]

This BS continues to be spread as gospel. And it's been discussed plenty.

Before the 2004 draft class, there was almost no one better Cowher could have drafted at QB. It was a long drought for QB's, even the guys who were picked ahead. The only two true franchise QB's Cowher could have landed was Tom Brady, whom even Belicheat waited until R6, and possibly Drew Brees in 2001 (PIT took Casey Hampton in R1). And there weren't really any options in FA, either. There was Kurt Warner bagging groceries at the time, but that was about it.
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

Maybe give a little credit for Kordell, whom once finished 3rd in MVP voting (2001?) and took them to 2 AFCC games. In 2001, he was still under a big contract - he was Rooney's guy, whom said when they announced the deal that Heinz field would be "the house that Kordell built".

As for Cowher being deadset on Shaun Andrews, that just isn't true. Over the years, both Cowher and Rooney had touched on this. They never expected Ben to fall to them at #11 (remember, CLE unexpectedly passed on a QB). When he was there, it was a pretty short and unanimous decision that they had to get the QB.

Remember that Brees was so bad during his first few years in the league that he got benched for Doug Flutie and the Chargers selected a new QB with the #1 overall pick.

Brees owes his entire career to Rivers' contract holdout.

[gpclay]

Maybe give a little credit for Kordell, whom once finished 3rd in MVP voting (2001?) and took them to 2 AFCC games. In 2001, he was still under a big contract - he was Rooney's guy, whom said when they announced the deal that Heinz field would be "the house that Kordell built".

Slash had two “good” QB seasons and both ended in the AFCCG - 1997 and 2001 with three very tough years from 1998-2000. Ended up with more INTs than TDs. Sub 60% completion rate. I always thought the loss of Yancey Thigpen, who could catch anything thrown near him, to Tennessee in 1998 and Charles Johnson, who played with Kordell at Colorado, to Philly in 1999, really set Stewart back. I rooted for him to take them to the promised land every season he was with the Stillers!!!

[COR-TEN]

In my memory the Steelers have had three guys who COULD have been franchise centerpieces. Ben (obviously), Bradshaw (obviously), and Terry Hanratty (who was unfortunately drafted the year before Bradshaw, so there was no opportunity or reason to see what he might have developed into). Other than that, it’s been a stream of JAGs—Don Nelson…Bubby Brister…blah, blah, blah.

Hanratty? Nope. I'm glad he never saw the field much. I liked it that Gilliam jumped his spot as #2 for a while there. Hanratty and Roy Gerela were my two least favorite steelers in the 70's.

From wiki : He finished his career with 2,510 passing yards, 24 touchdown passes, and 35 interceptions.[4] He completed 38 percent of his pass attempts, which led to an overall quarterback rating of 43.0.

[gojira5150]

Well I have a story about NOD. I was really good friends with Charles Johnson. A week after the Dallas loss I ran into Charles and I asked him WTH happened. He said that NOD was scary and afraid to get hit. On that last Larry Brown INT NOD heard footsteps, his Balls shriveled up and he just threw the ball up. If you watch that play the WR (forget who it was) was doing an Out & Up. Charles said if NOD just waited an extra 2-3 seconds & pump faked like he was supposed to do, that WR was streaking down the sidelines with no one around him. But he heard footsteps and got Scared.

He told me Lloyd & Green were so Pissed they just grab their clothes out of their lockers and left with their Jerseys still on. They wanted to kick the living Crap out of NOD. There was no way the Steelers were bringing him back.

[Ice]

This BS continues to be spread as gospel. And it's been discussed plenty.

Before the 2004 draft class, there was almost no one better Cowher could have drafted at QB. It was a long drought for QB's, even the guys who were picked ahead. The only two true franchise QB's Cowher could have landed was Tom Brady, whom even Belicheat waited until R6, and possibly Drew Brees in 2001 (PIT took Casey Hampton in R1). And there weren't really any options in FA, either. There was Kurt Warner bagging groceries at the time, but that was about it.
http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

Maybe give a little credit for Kordell, whom once finished 3rd in MVP voting (2001?) and took them to 2 AFCC games. In 2001, he was still under a big contract - he was Rooney's guy, whom said when they announced the deal that Heinz field would be "the house that Kordell built".

As for Cowher being deadset on Shaun Andrews, that just isn't true. Over the years, both Cowher and Rooney had touched on this. They never expected Ben to fall to them at #11 (remember, CLE unexpectedly passed on a QB). When he was there, it was a pretty short and unanimous decision that they had to get the QB.

I was just wondering if the argument can be made that 14 had the traits of a FQB, and an opportunity was squandered and he was uprooted before knowing the true answer. Similarly, I have to believe that the Browns have drafted at least one real FQB over the years, they just have shit soil and nothing grows. You are using history as the record of FQBs, I am just wondering if 14 was a what could have been, and when he was traded it was never going to be. Like if John Lennon’s parents moved out of Liverpool...would the Beatles have existed?

I don't end up agreeing with Colin Cowherd about much, but his (kind of obvious) point that whether or not players, and particularly QBs, succeed depends almost entirely on the organization that drafts them is one well made. The complete lack of stability of any kind in about 7 of the NFL's franchises, and their always ending up at the top of the draft board as a result, is just a minefield for the careers of highly rated QB prospects.

Look at somebody like Matt Stafford. Going to Detroit, he's carved out literally the best career a top prospect could hope for when drafted by one of these sorry franchises. Lot of yards, a couple of big contracts, maybe a Pro Bowl or two. Playoff wins? MVPs? All Pro? Lombardis? HOF? Just weren't going to happen for him there. There are all too many examples of guys who have fared FAR worse.

[Kodiak]

Slash had two “good” QB seasons and both ended in the AFCCG - 1997 and 2001 with three very tough years from 1998-2000. Ended up with more INTs than TDs. Sub 60% completion rate. I always thought the loss of Yancey Thigpen, who could catch anything thrown near him, to Tennessee in 1998 and Charles Johnson, who played with Kordell at Colorado, to Philly in 1999, really set Stewart back. I rooted for him to take them to the promised land every season he was with the Stillers!!!

That had a lot to do with Neil O's success, as well. Neil could barely make tough throws inside an NFL window. He had a few guys who were tremendous at circus-type catches, Thigpen being exceptional.

I think Neil wins that '97 and '01 AFCC games Korkie loss (in which he was horrendous). But I think it's also true that Neil O was a very, very average (a.k.a mediocre) QB who had some great talent around him in PIT in '94 and '95. Would Neil O' really have beaten Elway, or a budding NE dynasty in the AFCC? Doubtful.

[Kodiak]

Well I have a story about NOD. I was really good friends with Charles Johnson. A week after the Dallas loss I ran into Charles and I asked him WTH happened. He said that NOD was scary and afraid to get hit. On that last Larry Brown INT NOD heard footsteps, his Balls shriveled up and he just threw the ball up. If you watch that play the WR (forget who it was) was doing an Up & Out. Charles said if NOD just waited an extra 2-3 seconds & pump faked like he was supposed to do, that WR was streaking down the sidelines with no one around him. But he heard footsteps and got Scared.

He told me Lloyd & Green were so Pissed they just grab their clothes out of their lockers and left with their Jerseys still on. They wanted to kick the living Crap out of NOD. There was no way the Steelers were bringing him back.

Great story. That's another play that was discussed extensively (years after the fact, obviously), and it seemed like the consensus was a miscommunication on the hot route. Could very well have been Neil making the wrong read, and perhaps partly because he was shitting himself.

That's the problem with that 5-wide and what we're doing now. A miscommunication is going to result in turnovers at the worst possible time. And in the playoffs, against better defenses, the chances they create that miscommunication with confusion is much higher. A young group of receivers doesn't inspire confidence, either.

[Kodiak]

Look at somebody like Matt Stafford. Going to Detroit, he's carved out literally the best career a top prospect could hope for when drafted by one of these sorry franchises.

Might be something to that theory, at least back then. To succeed [before all the rule changes], you really needed a complete team around you. Tough to walk in and carry an offense with no running game, and just about impossible to do it without a great OL.

Today, though, there's a slew of guys coming out of college who can really sling it. It's the complete opposite of the dearth of great QB's in the Cowher era. Right now, there are 10 guys with ratings over 100. How many guys are really championship QB's though? I'm not sold on Carr or Tannenhill or Josh Allen.

Aside from Wilson and Mahomes, not sure who emerges as the next great HOF QB's when the old guard (Rodgers, Brees, Ben and Brady) retire. Plenty of guys who are and will put up numbers, but how are they going to do when you need your QB to be great?

[SteelPro]

This might be a naive question, and I was fairly young and the internet was just starting, so forgive me if it is. I can’t imagine it has not been asked, but it is an interesting question in my mind.

The argument goes that Tomlin has had a franchise QB his whole career and therefore Cowher is better yada yada yada...

Was Neil O’Donnell, excluding the Superbowl performance of course, a franchise QB that Cowher and the Steelers let get away? I know he was just pedestrian at the Jets and the Jets are pedestrian as an organization, but had Neil stayed, would he have been seen as a true franchise QB for the Steelers and should letting him go be a knock against Cowher and the front office?

It was unfortunate, but the way things were in the 90's the Steelers had to let a lot of good free agents go sooner than they wanted. It wasn't just the salary cap. They had financial constraints that limited what they could pay in signing bonuses compared to other franchises.

[Kodiak]

Brunell is one of the few guys that I was interested in. Then he was a pain in our sides in Jacksonville for a few years.

Not a bad thought. And maybe there's something to some of those guys going to horrible franchises. But you had plenty of great coaches in that era, guys like Jimmy Johnson and Parcells and Shannahan and some others who couldn't find a replacement for a great QB, either.

I think rules changes and high school/college getting much more advanced has made some of the best NFL-ready. But back in that day it did take years to develop a QB, not many people were any good at it, and most guys got broken in the process.

[gojira5150]

This might be a naive question, and I was fairly young and the internet was just starting, so forgive me if it is. I can’t imagine it has not been asked, but it is an interesting question in my mind.

The argument goes that Tomlin has had a franchise QB his whole career and therefore Cowher is better yada yada yada...

Was Neil O’Donnell, excluding the Superbowl performance of course, a franchise QB that Cowher and the Steelers let get away? I know he was just pedestrian at the Jets and the Jets are pedestrian as an organization, but had Neil stayed, would he have been seen as a true franchise QB for the Steelers and should letting him go be a knock against Cowher and the front office?

It was unfortunate, but the way things were in the 90's the Steelers had to let a lot of good free agents go sooner than they wanted. It wasn't just the salary cap. They had financial constraints that limited what they could pay in signing bonuses compared to other franchises.

I really, really hated losing #26 Rod Woodson. They should have kept at all costs.

[jebrick]

Remember that Cowher had to handle the FA/salary cap changes. He had a good strategy of building the best team without the expensive QB. Nearly all other successful teams try to do the same of having that great team for when they draft a franchise QB. tomlin had to hold it together in the salary cap era.

I think Cobert does not get enough credit for keeping talent on the team and getting more while paying a franchise QB. He had 2-3 years of a stagnate cap which really hurt. A team that has not drafted in the top 10 since 2000 ( without a trade up) is amazing.

[Drummer Boy]

It was unfortunate, but the way things were in the 90's the Steelers had to let a lot of good free agents go sooner than they wanted. It wasn't just the salary cap. They had financial constraints that limited what they could pay in signing bonuses compared to other franchises.

I was out of Pittsburgh by then, but I've heard something about this.

What was the money issue? Was it about the stadium?

[LakecrestSteeler]

It was unfortunate, but the way things were in the 90's the Steelers had to let a lot of good free agents go sooner than they wanted. It wasn't just the salary cap. They had financial constraints that limited what they could pay in signing bonuses compared to other franchises.

I was out of Pittsburgh by then, but I've heard something about this.

What was the money issue? Was it about the stadium?

Probably 3 rivers and having not switched to the personal seat licenses, and the Heinz naming rights etc.?

[Ice]

Look at somebody like Matt Stafford. Going to Detroit, he's carved out literally the best career a top prospect could hope for when drafted by one of these sorry franchises.

Might be something to that theory, at least back then. To succeed [before all the rule changes], you really needed a complete team around you. Tough to walk in and carry an offense with no running game, and just about impossible to do it without a great OL.

Today, though, there's a slew of guys coming out of college who can really sling it. It's the complete opposite of the dearth of great QB's in the Cowher era. Right now, there are 10 guys with ratings over 100. How many guys are really championship QB's though? I'm not sold on Carr or Tannenhill or Josh Allen.

Aside from Wilson and Mahomes, not sure who emerges as the next great HOF QB's when the old guard (Rodgers, Brees, Ben and Brady) retire. Plenty of guys who are and will put up numbers, but how are they going to do when you need your QB to be great?

Stafford will get you numbers, like a lot of these guys will. I think you're dead on about Mahomes and Wilson being the only really sure things in this younger group of QBs, and they are both tethered to reasonably (Seattle) or pretty darn (KC) strong franchises. I'd say Las Vegas might be on the come in their new situation, but they've been otherwise basically moribund for a while. Arizona? Love Murray, but long term success? Burrow, whatever you think of his talent, forget about it. Mike Brown. Are Herbert's prospects with an el cheapo, basically fanless organization like the Chargers much better than Rivers' were? We've all met Mayfield. Maybe Josh Allen, but can the Bills spend enough to keep a team around him? This was a franchise that was considering playing home games in Canada not too long ago. With the exception of Philly and maybe NYG, the NFC East is deeply dysfunctional, and how's Philly working out for Carson Wentz, with no receivers or O-line? I could easily go on. Location, location, location.

[SteelPro]

It was unfortunate, but the way things were in the 90's the Steelers had to let a lot of good free agents go sooner than they wanted. It wasn't just the salary cap. They had financial constraints that limited what they could pay in signing bonuses compared to other franchises.

I was out of Pittsburgh by then, but I've heard something about this.

What was the money issue? Was it about the stadium?

Probably 3 rivers and having not switched to the personal seat licenses, and the Heinz naming rights etc.?

That was part of it. In the early years of the salary cap there was also a lot of cap circumvention loopholes, but only the cash rich teams could take advantage of them. Those loopholes have since been closed and/or limited.

[MJG75]

I liked NOD, and do believe the Steelers should have tried to keep him. He had a very good running game in 94 and 95, and with the trade for the Bus in 96, who knows what we might have done.

My knock on NOD is that he didn't seem suited for the really big game. He seemed to do a lot of puckering. I believe he was still fairly young in the mid-90's and that might be one reason, and he might have blossomed if given more opportunities, which he would have got with the Steelers for certain. He wasn't a favorite as he wasn't physically tough, and seemed to lack some mental toughness as well. Still, if the D could generate some points and the run game was dominant, he was capable of passing well enough to possibly game manage us to a SB victory or two.

Kordell had the same problem with mental toughness and big games. I also liked Slash and thought it might have been possible for him to be something great if he had some better coaching (our OC's during most of his time were terrible), and also if they had approached his QB development a bit differently (same issue with OC's).

I'm not sure if I would classify Bobby Layne as a franchise QB, but of those not named Brad or Ben, I would agree he was probably our 3rd best QB. I enjoyed seeing someone bring up Bobby, though.

To the OP, we'll never know the answer to this question. They were from different eras, but also I think that Tomlin is similar to Noll in at least this one respect: He tends to keep things close to the vest; he rarely will divulge too many details about game plans, coaching approach, etc. Cowher seemed to be more of an open book, and that sort of works both ways. Both have a very clear idea of what they want to do, and what kind of players they want to achieve those goals.

Right now, Coach T is 9-0. Damn straight! Let's GO for #10 this week!!

[Ice]

This might be a naive question, and I was fairly young and the internet was just starting, so forgive me if it is. I can’t imagine it has not been asked, but it is an interesting question in my mind.

The argument goes that Tomlin has had a franchise QB his whole career and therefore Cowher is better yada yada yada...

Was Neil O’Donnell, excluding the Superbowl performance of course, a franchise QB that Cowher and the Steelers let get away? I know he was just pedestrian at the Jets and the Jets are pedestrian as an organization, but had Neil stayed, would he have been seen as a true franchise QB for the Steelers and should letting him go be a knock against Cowher and the front office?

It was unfortunate, but the way things were in the 90's the Steelers had to let a lot of good free agents go sooner than they wanted. It wasn't just the salary cap. They had financial constraints that limited what they could pay in signing bonuses compared to other franchises.

I really, really hated losing #26 Rod Woodson. They should have kept at all costs.

On the other hand, Woodson, and you could probably throw Searcy and Nickerson in, were the only ones that left and had any real success. A lot of teams tried to stripmine the 90s Steelers, but very few ended up with gold. A lot like the Pats of the 2000s, honestly. Had a talent for knowing when to fold em. Woodson, yeah, him I would have kept, for fan/emotional reasons, and for the fact, that in retrospect, he was nowhere near done.

There was a guy in our family section of Heinz Field who wore a duct-taped official NOD jersey for years after he was gone. No matter how the game was going, who the opponent was, you could get him to spew profanity about SB30 and NOD. Man, that guy hated him.

[SteelPro]

It was unfortunate, but the way things were in the 90's the Steelers had to let a lot of good free agents go sooner than they wanted. It wasn't just the salary cap. They had financial constraints that limited what they could pay in signing bonuses compared to other franchises.

I really, really hated losing #26 Rod Woodson. They should have kept at all costs.

On the other hand, Woodson, and you could probably throw Searcy and Nickerson in, were the only ones that left and had any real success. A lot of teams tried to stripmine the 90s Steelers, but very few ended up with gold. A lot like the Pats of the 2000s, honestly. Had a talent for knowing when to fold em. Woodson, yeah, him I would have kept, for fan/emotional reasons, and for the fact, that in retrospect, he was nowhere near done.

There was a guy in our family section of Heinz Field who wore a duct-taped official NOD jersey for years after he was gone. No matter how the game was going, who the opponent was, you could get him to spew profanity about SB30 and NOD. Man, that guy hated him.

I think you are missing a few. Kevin Greene and Chad Brown put up 1st team All-Pro seasons after leaving. Greene led the league in sacks his first season after leaving the Steelers. Brentson Buckner and Willie Williams were also losses that put up quite a few productive seasons after leaving.

[Ice]

Never really thought of Greene as a homegrown product, was thinking more of draft picks. Point well taken on Brown.

Woodson was different, though. Sustained continued excellence after leaving. Heck, he's one of the few players Steelers and Purple Browns fans actually agree on to this day.