Arians throwing a little shade on his buddy Ben?

[RemoAZ]

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[Orangesteel]

Cousin Brucie!

[bradshaw2ben]

I didn't think it was shade. Just a different style for a young QB who was plenty good just playing with feel. Since then, however, Ben has become a master of the game––you can see it creeping in in the 2009 film week by week with presnap reads, then becoming more a part of his game as time went on-- nowadays he's as good postsnap as any QB in the league. you don't get that without studying hard.

[955876]

Ummm it was a polite way of saying Ben nor Luck put in the cognitive work that Brady and Manning do/did.

At a young age Ben was a much better “football player” than both.

He’s FAR from the better QB.

And Ben’s let’s call it “laziness” in this area is why he’s booted out of the first round of the playoffs time and time again while Brady freaking switched teams and ended up in the Super Bowl.

Meanwhile, Ben is gripping his sheets cuz he might not be able to take a snap from his buddy.

It’s actually quite pathetic in a professional sense.

He doesn’t want to win as much as he wants to cumbaya with his bros.

[RemoAZ]

Ummm it was a polite way of saying Ben nor Luck put in the cognitive work that Brady and Manning do/did.

At a young age Ben was a much better “football player” than both.

He’s FAR from the better QB.

And Ben’s let’s call it “laziness” in this area is why he’s booted out of the first round of the playoffs time and time again while Brady freaking switched teams and ended up in the Super Bowl.

Meanwhile, Ben is gripping his sheets cuz he might not be able to take a snap from his buddy.

It’s actually quite pathetic in a professional sense.

He doesn’t want to win as much as he wants to cumbaya with his bros.

Couldn't agree more and I love Ben but truth is truth.

[Ice]

And the over-the-topness continues... sheesh.

[blu]

Ben didn't need to put in the time, he had the cheat sheet on his arm.

[Stillchest]

Ummm it was a polite way of saying Ben nor Luck put in the cognitive work that Brady and Manning do/did.

At a young age Ben was a much better “football player” than both.

He’s FAR from the better QB.

And Ben’s let’s call it “laziness” in this area is why he’s booted out of the first round of the playoffs time and time again while Brady freaking switched teams and ended up in the Super Bowl.

Meanwhile, Ben is gripping his sheets cuz he might not be able to take a snap from his buddy.

It’s actually quite pathetic in a professional sense.

He doesn’t want to win as much as he wants to cumbaya with his bros.

Couldn't agree more and I love Ben but truth is truth.

Truth?!

That’s an opinion because the two of you are jaded, spoiled Steelers fans, who live vicariously through their team.

You’re worse that Eagles fans.

[955876]

Says the guy with Ben’s dirty jock up his nose.

Two can play childish response game. Disagree with my post point out why.

Instead you made up a bunch of falsehoods to make yourself feel better.

I don’t think it’s being “spoiled” to expect the QB of an NFL tram to fully play the position. He (and the coaches) limit the offense by writing multiple things QBs do off the list.

So Ben can still sling it when he’s “on”.

Yay.

Whenever it’s has mattered over the past decade (I’m talking playoffs, you regular season commandos need not apply) it’s always he making the mental mistakes.

We’ve bitched about it here. And now you have his former coach and current golf buddy validate what I’ve (and others) have thought and you think it’s us with the bogus opinion. And

Mmmkaaay. Take your beef up with Bruce. He has insider access and just validated what we’ve been seeing.

Ben, Tomlin, whoever is OC and the way they coddle and restrict the offense has gotten very hard to watch.

Spoiled?? Shit man, at this point I know we aren’t winning anything of significance with Tomlin at the helm. I just wanna watch a football game where picking up ten yards doesn’t feel like pulling your eyeballs out.

[RemoAZ]

I don't think Ben was ever pushed by the coaches either. Early on his athleticism made up for his lack of knowledge. Now when he really needs to be a master of the game, it's not there at the level of other great QBs in their later years. He's just not on the level of Manning and Brady. Doesn't mean he's a bad QB. Just doesn't have the same commitment they do to take it to that level. Could a more demanding coach have made a difference? Guess we'll never know. Still think he could have an Elway like ending if they could build a running game to go with this defense. That's how he won the two SBs to begin with.

[stinger8]

We can all speculate how much #7 worked on the mental preparedness/acuity part of his game. We don't really know the whole story

There is zero speculation on the work (or lack there of) he put in on the physical/conditioning part of his game. I started banging on this a long time ago (along with RON). He would show up to camp looking like Grizzly Adams after a week long HARD Vegas binge. Fuckin gut sticking out on a professional athlete Brady/Brees show looking like they could be on the cover of Mens Fitness.

He has made more than a quarter of a billion dollars in his career he could afford the best trainers/nutritionist's (probably tax deductible to boot) all he had to do was commit the effort. Brady has not eaten a grain of sugar in 15 years

How far could he have taken his team and legacy had he committed himself fully, to the physical and mental aspects????

This attitude that some ball lickers here propagate that he was an old school gun slinger prep be damned is such bull shit. Draw a play up in the dirt

Bottom line he deserves his fair share of criticism for a decade of under whelming results I.E. playoff success and I wont let him off the hook.

[DP39]

We can all speculate how much #7 worked on the mental preparedness/acuity part of his game. We don't really know the whole story

There is zero speculation on the work (or lack there of) he put in on the physical/conditioning part of his game. I started banging on this a long time ago (along with RON). He would show up to camp looking like Grizzly Adams after a week long HARD Vegas binge. Fuckin gut sticking out on a professional athlete Brady/Brees show looking like they could be on the cover of Mens Fitness.

He has made more than a quarter of a billion dollars in his career he could afford the best trainers/nutritionist's (probably tax deductible to boot) all he had to do was commit the effort. Brady has not eaten a grain of sugar in 15 years

How far could he have taken his team and legacy had he committed himself fully, to the physical and mental aspects????

This attitude that some ball lickers here propagate that he was an old school gun slinger prep be damned is such bull shit. Draw a play up in the dirt

Bottom line he deserves his fair share of criticism for a decade of under whelming results I.E. playoff success and I wont let him off the hook.

Been right there with you for many years. And you're right, there are some here that swear Ben can do no (or very little) wrong. He's my QB and I'll ride with him, but it's a real shame that he's wasted as much opportunity as he has over his career.

[bradshaw2ben]

Now when he really needs to be a master of the game, it's not there at the level of other great QBs in their later years.

You are either watching a different QB or something I can't explain.

[955876]

Been right there with you for many years. And you're right, there are some here that swear Ben can do no (or very little) wrong. He's my QB and I'll ride with him, but it's a real shame that he's wasted as much opportunity as he has over his career.

Ding ding.

[955876]

Now when he really needs to be a master of the game, it's not there at the level of other great QBs in their later years.

You are either watching a different QB or something I can't explain.

How many times down the stretch did we see someone on the dline get a hand up and bat a pass???

Seemed like it became a weekly thing. Some games more than once.

But each week nothing to counter it. Some planned pump fakes, a few roll outs, just moving in the pocket a little etc etc would have cooled that off.

But that was too much to ask of Ben and/or the offensive staff.

Roll the pocket?? Gasp. No way we can move the pocket and get the ball out in under 2 seconds. Scratch that idea.

A pump fake??? We can’t expect our guys to execute that.

Playaction?? Child please. We X’ed that shit out years ago. It’ll take an entire offseason and camp to re-introduce that back into the playbook.

We just need to execute the 2 second horizontal offense better that’s all. It’s the execution why the WR didn’t pick up the additional 8 yards after catching a 2 yard pass on 3rd and 10.

If Ben and the coaches roll that shit out again year I may pluck an eyeball out.

[Ice]

I like how we're going directly from Ben's first four years to the offense we watched this year. You're discounting a good decade (probably the best decade) of the guy's career. Yes, he's near the end of his run now, and yeah, there were offseasons where could have put down the nachos. Sure, he could have gone the avocado ice cream route, but there's so much overentitled, willfully factually ignorant crap in this thread that it's hard to wonder what some folks were watching for 15 years. Well, future HOF, franchise QBs don't grow on trees, so maybe a few years of Tomczacks, Bristers, Kent Grahams and Jim Millers will improve your general outlooks.

[Obviously]

I still say Ben is in his Brett Favre with the Jets/Vikings years right now rather than Elway's final two seasons.

[955876]

I like how we're going directly from Ben's first four years to the offense we watched this year. You're discounting a good decade (probably the best decade) of the guy's career. Yes, he's near the end of his run now, and yeah, there were offseasons where could have put down the nachos. Sure, he could have gone the avocado ice cream route, but there's so much overentitled, willfully factually ignorant crap in this thread that it's hard to wonder what some folks were watching for 15 years. Well, future HOF, franchise QBs don't grow on trees, so maybe a few years of Tomczacks, Bristers, Kent Grahams and Jim Millers will improve your general outlooks.

An unfortunate reality in pro sports (and really life in general) comes down to what have you done for me lately.

I get Ben ha had a great career. But we applauded him at the time.

Do we really need to cease criticism now because of something he did 8 years ago?

Why?

Especially when you factor all the shady bullshit that comes out of this team, staff, and QB.

The critique isn’t simply that he’s getting older and isnt the 26 year old stud he once was. That happens.

The criticism is based on this watered down offense geared to protect Benji above scoring points or converting third downs.

If that is what we must do for him to step on the field then he and the coaches deserve criticism and Ben should have rode off into the sunset after he broke his wing.

No QB sneaks
No play action
No rollouts
No pump fakes
No moving the pocket

Lots sub 2 second passes for a yard on 3rd & 10 though.

When he retires he can receive accolades. Right now, he’s a key cog in our dysfunction.

I suppose I’m out of line because he brought it all home for us in 08. 13 years ago.

He needs to play the position like ALL other QBs are doing.

Fucking Alex Smith damn near lost his leg and yet look at the work he put in to get back and is able to move. Meanwhile, Ben plays golf. And likely takes a cart.

Benji took it easy til docs said he could throw.

How much footwork exercises you think he really did over his extended layoff?

What he’s “put on tape” looks like not so much.

[Kodiak]

Manning, who was an absolute slave to his pre-snap reads, used to be manipulated by good playoff defenses. That's why he has, I think, the two worst postseason QBR's in a SB run ever - carried to his only rings. And that's what Ben has become (or made into) the past 5 years or so.

To be successful, you need to balance that with taking time to let a play unfold and just react. If your QB can't scramble or extend plays much anymore, than you have to have good pass pro. It's that simple. And PIT pass pro has been masked for several years by getting rid of the ball quickly. Hasn't been a bad regular season strategy, TBH, but has been pretty easily dismantled by better defenses.

What happened the last few years is the run blocking also fell apart. You're not going far in the playoffs with an OL in the bottom quartile by every measure. That's an impossible task for a QB. In the SB years, the pass pro might have sucked but the run blocking was still well above average (not to mention Ben made that awful pass pro work like few could).

Facing a decent 7 or 8 guys in coverage because you can't run and you can't pass protect.....REALLY tough to be an above average QB, statistically, in that scenario. You look at 2010 Ben, statistically one of his worst years. While some of that was injuries, the reality is he didn't have much help but was able to make enough key plays when needed. That was a Bruce Arians offense that liked to throw beyond the sticks, BTW.

Throwing short of the sticks is losing football. I've been saying that for years. We've been doing that since Haley. You don't have to throw short of the sticks on 3rd down every time to keep your QB healthy.

[Ice]

The offense was hit or miss, and certainly fell apart at the end of the season, but even when discussing this season, that last post is full of generalization, assumptions based on no facts, and conjecture. I get it, you're mad at the way it ended, and you want to be mad at somebody (or anybody? Or everybody?), but man, can the venting be at least mostly based in reality? Deep breaths, man.

[Kodiak]

The offense was hit or miss, and certainly fell apart at the end of the season, but even when discussing this season, that last post is full of generalization, assumptions based on no facts, and conjecture. I get it, you're mad at the way it ended, and you want to be mad at somebody (or anybody? Or everybody?), but man, can the venting be at least mostly based in reality? Deep breaths, man.

So you disagree our OL was bottom quartile last year? It's "not a fact" that QB's with bad pass pro and no running game almost universally suck?

Plenty of fact-based observations. Sorry if that doesn't satisfy the "Ben is done" crowd. He may be with an OL that putrid and a HC in love with attrition football. Also a fact that throwing beyond the sticks (correlated with YPA, obviously) is winning football. And the converse - dink-n-dunk-n-punt is not.

[955876]

The offense was hit or miss, and certainly fell apart at the end of the season, but even when discussing this season, that last post is full of generalization, assumptions based on no facts, and conjecture. I get it, you're mad at the way it ended, and you want to be mad at somebody (or anybody? Or everybody?), but man, can the venting be at least mostly based in reality? Deep breaths, man.

You going to disagree that major parts of what QB do has been removed from the playbook?

My beef isn’t whining because we lost a playoff game.

My beef is with this team that has been in disarray Nd decline and always has drama & issues other teams and staffs don’t.

Is there another fa base out there that has had to debate why QB sneaks are almost never used?

We have minimized our offense for reasons that appear to be get the ball out fast above all else.

Ben is part of that issue. You can call it what you want but why I see is a bunch of professionals that over and over again have not only underperformed but have done so I’m embarrassing fashion.

Haven’t see a team less prepared to play playoff football than I did a few weeks ago.

But hey, Ben was a serine in 2005 so he gets a pass I suppose.

I see far too much complacency and do what we do to accept it any longer.

Would much prefer to watch a 6-10 team that is getting better and growing than the complacent vets and care more bout social media young guys we currently have.

Maybe you are just happy to see your team play. I’m at the point watching feels like a waste of time.

Pretty bad when you can’t get excited bout 11-0 because you know already how the season was going to end.

Had a very strong feeling we’d lay yet another egg.

And Tomlin & Ben did what they have molded into the “standard” and that’s getting blown off the field by what should be a lesser opponent.

[Kodiak]

You going to disagree then major parts of QB have been removed from the playbook to placate Ben

Some things, but probably not nearly as much as you think.

IMO, play action disappeared because our OL can't hold it's blocks long enough. That has been painfully obvious throughout the latter half of Ben's career, for a guy who started out as one of history's greatest PA quarterbacks.

And the QB sneak was probably taken out because Pouncey has been playing on roller skates for years.

I'm sure you'll find other choices have been made to cover-up that OL. Tomlin said years ago, when they were flailing around trying to draft and develop OL, that there was "more than one way to address OL"....meaning, philosophically, Tomlin believed skill players and scheme could compensate for sub-standard OL play. Once you understand that, the sign-off on Fitchner's offense the last two years makes A LOT more sense.

[Ice]

The offense was hit or miss, and certainly fell apart at the end of the season, but even when discussing this season, that last post is full of generalization, assumptions based on no facts, and conjecture. I get it, you're mad at the way it ended, and you want to be mad at somebody (or anybody? Or everybody?), but man, can the venting be at least mostly based in reality? Deep breaths, man.

So you disagree our OL was bottom quartile last year? It's "not a fact" that QB's with bad pass pro and no running game almost universally suck?

Plenty of fact-based observations. Sorry if that doesn't satisfy the "Ben is done" crowd. He may be with an OL that putrid and a HC in love with attrition football. Also a fact that throwing beyond the sticks (correlated with YPA, obviously) is winning football. And the converse - dink-n-dunk-n-punt is not.

I was referring to 95's post, sir. You and I are very much on the same side of this "discussion," I think. Probably should have quoted it for clarity. Apologies for that, but I got a little heated.

[Ice]

The offense was hit or miss, and certainly fell apart at the end of the season, but even when discussing this season, that last post is full of generalization, assumptions based on no facts, and conjecture. I get it, you're mad at the way it ended, and you want to be mad at somebody (or anybody? Or everybody?), but man, can the venting be at least mostly based in reality? Deep breaths, man.

You going to disagree then major parts of QB have been removed from the playbook to placate Ben

I don't know what has and hasn't been done "to placate Ben," but I do know that Tomlin has tried to scheme his way around a shit Oline and running game before, with Brucie as OC, in fact. It was hit or miss, just like this year, until Ben took games over on O and won them. Just like this year. The 09 defense was considerably better, though, especially after we lost Bush and Dupree.

Turning conjecture into quasi-facts in an argument just by loudly and repeatedly asserting them just rubs me the wrong way, anymore.

[955876]

Sounds like a shit load of excuse making to me on the part of our staff and some fans accepting the BS

So we can’t run a sneak cuz Pouncey is on skates. Ok fine if that is the reason. But that wasn’t just a 2020 issue. Been going on for a few years now.

What has been done about center?

And I get hey if we get the ball out quicker argument but once it was figured out why happened? We couldn’t adjust.

We have a poor HC and poor staff.

We have an aging QB that either he, them, or both have adjusted the offense so much to ensure he doesn’t get hit they became complacent dumping it off for a yard on 3rd and 10.

Almost as if getting off the field to punt was an equally ok outcome.

I’m not saying replace Ben and all these issues go away. But if you guys think Ben isn’t a big reason some of this is happening then you haven’t been paying attention.

This QB/HC combo is done winning anything but regular season games. Maybe Ben will rack up 1 more playoff win before he’s done.

I don’t see why we should be doing anything but bitching about to is team. They deserve it.

Most everyone knew that even at 11-0 we were a postseason bottom feeder.

[955876]

The argument that seems to be being presented here is that we should accept

Not being to run sneaks
No rollouts
No play action
No moving the pocket etc etc etc.

This is a multi-year issue. You guys are acting like this just creeped up at the tail end of 2020.

It didn’t

Been going on for a few years.

No worries, our incompetent oline coach’s protege has been put in charge.

Could Ben run that sneak behind Dotson?

We wouldn’t know because Tomlin played vet favoritism to get Fieler back on the field. Like it wasn’t obvious Fieler isnt some stud OG or something that needs back on the field.

We just seem to deal in dumb far too often.

[Ice]

I'll agree with the last line of that post, 95.

[jeemie]

New England/Pittsburgh 2017

Review of the Jesse James catch underway...taking a long time.

Is Ben huddled with Haley and/or Tomlin looking at a Surface and planning out the next play or two in case the call doesn’t go the Steelers’ way?

No...he’s off by himself with his knee on the ground.

Symptom of the same thing Bruce is talking about.

[langer]

On a team that keeps coaches around past usefulness, they jettisoned the last Oline coach after a year. LOL