what kind of deal they will offer #7 to stay?

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autopilot
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what kind of deal they will offer #7 to stay?

Post by autopilot » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:48 pm

the cap/contracts gurus, any idea how they can lower the cap hit? does big ben give the steelers a brady type discount?



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Pabst
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Post by Pabst » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:56 pm

I believe Ben's base salary for next season is $4 million. The league minimum is $1,050,000 for someone with his experience.

At the very least, he can take a $3m pay cut without doing anything else. Every little bit will help.

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Post by anpsteel » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:13 pm

His base is $4mil w/ a $15mil roster bonus

Everything else of the $41mil is dead cap money from kicking the can down the curb. Meaning, he's already been paid it.

So, of the $19mil, what if any is he willing to forgo?

Lets say they extend his contract through 2022 and add $5mil

So you take the $19mil + the $5 - totaling $24mil. That reduces his actual comp numbers for this season to $12mil, reducing the salary hit by $7mil and spreads the dead cap of $22mil over 2 seasons. Which frees up another $11mil, by pushing it to 2022.

Net net: that would free up a total cap hit of $18mil in 2021.

IF, I understand how this shit works.

Not sure he'd do it, but that's sort of my thoughts.

I should add, much more than that- and I'm not so sure I'd do it. Cut him, eat the dead space and play like shit enough to get a decent draft pick and fire Tomlin.

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Post by Jizz Mop » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:38 pm

“Fire Tomlin”

I’m good with that

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Post by Jobu » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:51 pm

Jizz Mop wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:38 pm
“Fire Tomlin”

I’m good with that
:lol: :lol: :lol: ...Right!
Better chance of Ben playing for free...

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Post by Scunge » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:20 am

Ben has a $4 million base salary for 2021 and a March Roster Bonus of $15 million.

He is on the books for $19 million in new money. They can pay him a base salary of $1.075 million, I believe that is the vet minimum, and then they can pay out the remaining $17,925,000 as a new signing bonus.

So, they can add 'dummy' years on to his contract, say they add 4 more years. It doesn't matter what the base salaries are.

So, you take that $17,925,000 and divide up that hit over 2021 and the 4 'dummy' years. That is a $3,585,000 cap hit each year for that restructure.

You take Ben's $1,075,000 2021 base, and add $3,585,000 for this new restructure and that adds up to $4,660,000.

The result of all of that is $14,340,000 million is freed up for 2021.

The downside of that is that exact number of $14,340,000 will be due in 2022 if Ben retires or is cut.

And that is significant for 2022. $14 million comes due, when you are trying to give Watt his big contract, when you are paying Fitz his 5th year option which will be higher because he has already qualified for that 5th year option to be valued as whatever the transition tag will be for a safety. Also, they may be forced to pay Rudolph a $6 million per year deal to be the bridge QB.

What purpose does that $14 million savings for 2021 do for this team if Bud isn't retained? If we lose Hilton, if we lose JuJu, etc??

I keep banging this drum but the best thing is to finally take our medicine. I think the Steelers should tell Ben to retire, we save a full $19 million, try and sign our defensive free agents. We go into the season with Rudolph as our starter and Haskins as his backup. If we go 8-8 or 7-9 then fine, it is needed to get within distance of trading up for a QB in 2022.

If you are picking 15th, then it is easier to trade up into the top 5-10

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Post by jewelsongs » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:59 am

I wonder if Pouncey is holding up his announcement to announce with Ben if the new contract does not work out. They always said they would go out together.

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Post by Ice » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:09 am

Scunge wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:20 am
Ben has a $4 million base salary for 2021 and a March Roster Bonus of $15 million.

He is on the books for $19 million in new money. They can pay him a base salary of $1.075 million, I believe that is the vet minimum, and then they can pay out the remaining $17,925,000 as a new signing bonus.

So, they can add 'dummy' years on to his contract, say they add 4 more years. It doesn't matter what the base salaries are.

So, you take that $17,925,000 and divide up that hit over 2021 and the 4 'dummy' years. That is a $3,585,000 cap hit each year for that restructure.

You take Ben's $1,075,000 2021 base, and add $3,585,000 for this new restructure and that adds up to $4,660,000.

The result of all of that is $14,340,000 million is freed up for 2021.

The downside of that is that exact number of $14,340,000 will be due in 2022 if Ben retires or is cut.

And that is significant for 2022. $14 million comes due, when you are trying to give Watt his big contract, when you are paying Fitz his 5th year option which will be higher because he has already qualified for that 5th year option to be valued as whatever the transition tag will be for a safety. Also, they may be forced to pay Rudolph a $6 million per year deal to be the bridge QB.

What purpose does that $14 million savings for 2021 do for this team if Bud isn't retained? If we lose Hilton, if we lose JuJu, etc??

I keep banging this drum but the best thing is to finally take our medicine. I think the Steelers should tell Ben to retire, we save a full $19 million, try and sign our defensive free agents. We go into the season with Rudolph as our starter and Haskins as his backup. If we go 8-8 or 7-9 then fine, it is needed to get within distance of trading up for a QB in 2022.

If you are picking 15th, then it is easier to trade up into the top 5-10
They're not going to kick Ben to the curb that way, nor should they. I get where you're coming from, but this isn't dynasty mode on Madden. He deserves to go out in front of a sold out crowd. Sometimes, you just have to do the right thing by the person.
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Post by jeemie » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:18 am

Ice wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:09 am
Scunge wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:20 am
Ben has a $4 million base salary for 2021 and a March Roster Bonus of $15 million.

He is on the books for $19 million in new money. They can pay him a base salary of $1.075 million, I believe that is the vet minimum, and then they can pay out the remaining $17,925,000 as a new signing bonus.

So, they can add 'dummy' years on to his contract, say they add 4 more years. It doesn't matter what the base salaries are.

So, you take that $17,925,000 and divide up that hit over 2021 and the 4 'dummy' years. That is a $3,585,000 cap hit each year for that restructure.

You take Ben's $1,075,000 2021 base, and add $3,585,000 for this new restructure and that adds up to $4,660,000.

The result of all of that is $14,340,000 million is freed up for 2021.

The downside of that is that exact number of $14,340,000 will be due in 2022 if Ben retires or is cut.

And that is significant for 2022. $14 million comes due, when you are trying to give Watt his big contract, when you are paying Fitz his 5th year option which will be higher because he has already qualified for that 5th year option to be valued as whatever the transition tag will be for a safety. Also, they may be forced to pay Rudolph a $6 million per year deal to be the bridge QB.

What purpose does that $14 million savings for 2021 do for this team if Bud isn't retained? If we lose Hilton, if we lose JuJu, etc??

I keep banging this drum but the best thing is to finally take our medicine. I think the Steelers should tell Ben to retire, we save a full $19 million, try and sign our defensive free agents. We go into the season with Rudolph as our starter and Haskins as his backup. If we go 8-8 or 7-9 then fine, it is needed to get within distance of trading up for a QB in 2022.

If you are picking 15th, then it is easier to trade up into the top 5-10
They're not going to kick Ben to the curb that way, nor should they. I get where you're coming from, but this isn't dynasty mode on Madden. He deserves to go out in front of a sold out crowd. Sometimes, you just have to do the right thing by the person.
That kind of sentimentality kills football teams.

I want the Steelers who let Franco Harris go to Seattle, not the Steelers who force fed a backwards pass to Hines Ward so he could set the receptions record.

Ben's been paid handsomely in his career...he never once took a discount so the team could be better.

He's got two rings. He will be in Canton some day.

They can have a Ben Roethlisberger Day next year so he can say goodbye, but you don't put yourself in cap hell for more years so he can "have a farewell tour".

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Post by Ice » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:24 am

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man...
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Post by Steelperch » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:36 am

I think they add a year and $4 million to Ben’s contract. That $19 million becomes $23 million spread over two years with more of it going into next year. That should lower his 2021 cap hit by say $10 million and everyone saves face. Ben gets $23 million spread over two years without the appearance of playing for a basement level contract. The team keeps him and allows him to go out on his terms.

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Post by steelmann58 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:06 am

Ben is going to do what needed to get them in cap relief.

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Post by MJG75 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:07 am

Steelperch wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:36 am
I think they add a year and $4 million to Ben’s contract. That $19 million becomes $23 million spread over two years with more of it going into next year. That should lower his 2021 cap hit by say $10 million and everyone saves face. Ben gets $23 million spread over two years without the appearance of playing for a basement level contract. The team keeps him and allows him to go out on his terms.
Best option I have read. No way does he not deserve to go out on his own terms. Jeemie mentioned Franco. No way do I ever want a repeat of that most dishonorable moment in Steelers history. Franco also deserved to be paid and to go out on his own terms. As does Ben.

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Post by Kodiak » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:26 am

Hard to keep up with the rules changes, but if they add dummy years and Ben retires after next season I think they can spread the cap hit over two years.

But while most people want to kick Ben to the curb now, I suspect Ben and the Steelers are planning for the possibility he may be willing and able to play into 2022 and beyond.

So, yes, there is a negotiation taking place for all parties to protect themselves. It's plainly obvious - if everyone agreed this is Ben's last year, adding a few dummy years to spread the cap hit would be trivial. At Week 11, the guy was in the MVP running.

I'm not in a hurry to dump Ben to rebuild a team run by Mike Tomlin. Odds are we won't get another franchise QB for at least a decade. The people gnashing their teeth over Ben's salary/cap hit are bedwetting - a few years without a franchise QB and you're forced to overpay JAGs to meet the cap requirements. It's a non-issue.
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Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

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Post by Kodiak » Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:40 am

There is ZERO consternation about being able to pay Watt and Dupree.

Almost every big contract on this team is up this year and next. You give Watt and Dupree their money in 2023, and you guarantee all those years. It really is that fucking simple. The only hitch is if those guys have big, big spending plans. But I'm sure plenty of banks/HWNI's will float them a rock-bottom loan.

You throw some big roster bonuses at them in 2023 and you guarantee the first 2-3 years of the contract. You can do that with everyone, including Ben. That's how you borrow tens of millions in cap space from the future. Any cap issues are going to disappear 2-3 years after Ben retires.
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Post by Ice » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:57 am

MJG75 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:07 am
Steelperch wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:36 am
I think they add a year and $4 million to Ben’s contract. That $19 million becomes $23 million spread over two years with more of it going into next year. That should lower his 2021 cap hit by say $10 million and everyone saves face. Ben gets $23 million spread over two years without the appearance of playing for a basement level contract. The team keeps him and allows him to go out on his terms.
Best option I have read. No way does he not deserve to go out on his own terms. Jeemie mentioned Franco. No way do I ever want a repeat of that most dishonorable moment in Steelers history. Franco also deserved to be paid and to go out on his own terms. As does Ben.
Well said as always, sir.
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Post by jeemie » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:06 pm

MJG75 wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:07 am
Steelperch wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:36 am
I think they add a year and $4 million to Ben’s contract. That $19 million becomes $23 million spread over two years with more of it going into next year. That should lower his 2021 cap hit by say $10 million and everyone saves face. Ben gets $23 million spread over two years without the appearance of playing for a basement level contract. The team keeps him and allows him to go out on his terms.
Best option I have read. No way does he not deserve to go out on his own terms. Jeemie mentioned Franco. No way do I ever want a repeat of that most dishonorable moment in Steelers history. Franco also deserved to be paid and to go out on his own terms. As does Ben.
You play players for what they can do for you now, not what they did for you in the past.

And Ben isn’t Franco...Ben has gotten max deals his entire career. He’s already been paid for what he’s given us.

I wouldn’t mind doing this...if...IF...I believed this team..especially Ben and the coaching staff...would pull out all the stops, go against type, in a last effort for a Lombardi.

But since none of them think they’re not doing it right, that won’t happen. You know it and I know it.

So why delay the arrival of the future?

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Post by Mick » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:39 pm

jeemie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:06 pm

So why delay the arrival of the future?
I guess I’m just not that pessimistic about this team?

And i’m not 100% clear on what is the source of optimism about the future arriving. Three reasons to be optimistic about a rebuild (which, on average, will replace what you have with mediocrity after a few years): (1) You have your QB position set, just need a team around him (2) You are confident in your coach, and just need to give him a roster (3) you are like 3-13, so even though on average your expectation is mediocrity, that would still be an improvement.

Which of those applies here? Unless you really love Tomlin.

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Post by K_C_ » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:02 pm

Mick wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:39 pm
jeemie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:06 pm

So why delay the arrival of the future?
I guess I’m just not that pessimistic about this team?

And i’m not 100% clear on what is the source of optimism about the future arriving. Three reasons to be optimistic about a rebuild (which, on average, will replace what you have with mediocrity after a few years): (1) You have your QB position set, just need a team around him (2) You are confident in your coach, and just need to give him a roster (3) you are like 3-13, so even though on average your expectation is mediocrity, that would still be an improvement.

Which of those applies here? Unless you really love Tomlin.
I'm optimistic that Tomlin will likely want no part of the INEVITABLE rebuild that the Steelers are heading for and will hang 'em up.

One thing nobody's talking about is this team late in the season, with Ben Roethlisberger at the helm, FELL THE FUCK APART.

Who here thinks when next season starts that we're all of the sudden going to go out there and dominate? That Ben's gonna light folks up again and our defense isn't going to be the bag of shit that allowed Baker Mayfield 40 points in Heinz Field when it mattered most?

The Steelers are likely a third place team next season WITH Roethlisberger.

We're going to have a brutal fucking schedule and a QB playing on fumes, who can't move without a cane.

So whether Ben is your QB next year, or Mason or Haskins.....the Steelers aren't going to scare anybody.

We'll see how much Aviators likes a team that's on the verge of a major fucking collapse.

We'll see how much longer he enjoys coaching when he can no longer boast about never having a losing season.

He's heading, like a missile, towards a losing season.
"In my opinion, he is a great motivator and good leader of men, but a shit tactician and absolutely game day imbecile".

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Post by Mick » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:17 pm

What I was hearing during that ‘raise hell’ stretch was things like “ravens showed how to play them” “easiest offense to prepare for” “telegraphing all run vs. pass”.

Those are extremely fixable problems; ‘the players are bad’ is something you need a rebuild to fix. ‘The scheme is a joke’ is something you fix by...changing the scheme, not rebuilding the roster.

Am i confident we will fix it? No! But in the ~30% chance we do, that gives us a 30% chance of having a really good chance next year. I’ll take that.

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Post by K_C_ » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:24 pm

Mick wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:17 pm
What I was hearing during that ‘raise hell’ stretch was things like “ravens showed how to play them” “easiest offense to prepare for” “telegraphing all run vs. pass”.

Those are extremely fixable problems; ‘the players are bad’ is something you need a rebuild to fix. ‘The scheme is a joke’ is something you fix by...changing the scheme, not rebuilding the roster.

Am i confident we will fix it? No! But in the ~30% chance we do, that gives us a 30% chance of having a really good chance next year. I’ll take that.
Teams figured out the "throw the ball in 2 seconds or less" horseshit and that was IT.

Next year, they're going to force Ben to throw the ball downfield....and he will likely get broken in half on the field trying.

.....against a much, much tougher schedule.
"In my opinion, he is a great motivator and good leader of men, but a shit tactician and absolutely game day imbecile".

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Post by Mick » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:34 pm

K_C_ wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:24 pm
Mick wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:17 pm
What I was hearing during that ‘raise hell’ stretch was things like “ravens showed how to play them” “easiest offense to prepare for” “telegraphing all run vs. pass”.

Those are extremely fixable problems; ‘the players are bad’ is something you need a rebuild to fix. ‘The scheme is a joke’ is something you fix by...changing the scheme, not rebuilding the roster.

Am i confident we will fix it? No! But in the ~30% chance we do, that gives us a 30% chance of having a really good chance next year. I’ll take that.
Teams figured out the "throw the ball in 2 seconds or less" horseshit and that was IT.

Next year, they're going to force Ben to throw the ball downfield....and he will likely get broken in half on the field trying.

.....against a much, much tougher schedule.
i don’t disagree with any of that. My point is simply this:

The 2021 steelers roster is likely to be the most talented roster we have in the next 10 years. I’d rather not give up before preseason.

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Post by K_C_ » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:38 pm

Mick wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:34 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:24 pm
Mick wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:17 pm
What I was hearing during that ‘raise hell’ stretch was things like “ravens showed how to play them” “easiest offense to prepare for” “telegraphing all run vs. pass”.

Those are extremely fixable problems; ‘the players are bad’ is something you need a rebuild to fix. ‘The scheme is a joke’ is something you fix by...changing the scheme, not rebuilding the roster.

Am i confident we will fix it? No! But in the ~30% chance we do, that gives us a 30% chance of having a really good chance next year. I’ll take that.
Teams figured out the "throw the ball in 2 seconds or less" horseshit and that was IT.

Next year, they're going to force Ben to throw the ball downfield....and he will likely get broken in half on the field trying.

.....against a much, much tougher schedule.
i don’t disagree with any of that. My point is simply this:

The 2021 steelers roster is likely to be the most talented roster we have in the next 10 years. I’d rather not give up before preseason.
Yep, all we can do is see what happens after the roster is settled.
"In my opinion, he is a great motivator and good leader of men, but a shit tactician and absolutely game day imbecile".

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Post by jeemie » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:45 pm

Mick wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:39 pm
jeemie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:06 pm

So why delay the arrival of the future?
I guess I’m just not that pessimistic about this team?

And i’m not 100% clear on what is the source of optimism about the future arriving. Three reasons to be optimistic about a rebuild (which, on average, will replace what you have with mediocrity after a few years): (1) You have your QB position set, just need a team around him (2) You are confident in your coach, and just need to give him a roster (3) you are like 3-13, so even though on average your expectation is mediocrity, that would still be an improvement.

Which of those applies here? Unless you really love Tomlin.
I’m not optimistic about the future, but I’m less optimistic about continuing Business as Usual because I know it won’t get the Steelers a Lombardi. All it will give us is a tease...a false hope

The only “optimism” is the likelihood Mike Tomlin goes after Ben leaves...hopefully.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:51 pm

jeemie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:18 am
That kind of sentimentality kills football teams.

I want the Steelers who let Franco Harris go to Seattle, not the Steelers who force fed a backwards pass to Hines Ward so he could set the receptions record.

Ben's been paid handsomely in his career...he never once took a discount so the team could be better.

He's got two rings. He will be in Canton some day.

They can have a Ben Roethlisberger Day next year so he can say goodbye, but you don't put yourself in cap hell for more years so he can "have a farewell tour".
You keep saying that... it's just not true. I realize it's complicated because of the old contract money getting rolled into the new contract, but let's break it down:

When he signed his 2008 deal, he was only top 5 money earned for a year. He then dropped to about 6 for a year or two and then plummetted to ~14-16th. If you average the years of 2008 until the new money of his next deal in 2015 kicked in, he was around the 12th highest paid QB in the NFL during that time. Do you think he was remotely close to being the 12th best QB in the league during that time? Even the 2015 new money AND the advanced money paid in his 2019 extension only kicked him up to about 12th in the NFL for that time frame (I think he won the passing yardage title in two of those years and threw up three of the most highly-rated QB games of the decade during that period). His new money last 2 years paid him $20M/per, which was roughly 14th in the NFL. Probably a little low, even for his performance level last year viewed through the most pessimistic lens.

Explain to me how he has never taken a hit for the betterment of the team? Remember, although you can blame Ben for his situation, he has nearly zero endorsement money now or in the future––other QBs of his stature have millions per year. He'll go down as one of the most underpaid QBs of his era (who doesn't have a supermodel wife).
jeemie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:06 pm
So why delay the arrival of the future?
Because you're essentially saying you'd rather trust Tomlin to rebuild a team without Ben than Ben to outplay Tomlin's coaching for a year or two.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:54 pm

Kodiak wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:26 am
Hard to keep up with the rules changes, but if they add dummy years and Ben retires after next season I think they can spread the cap hit over two years.

But while most people want to kick Ben to the curb now, I suspect Ben and the Steelers are planning for the possibility he may be willing and able to play into 2022 and beyond.

So, yes, there is a negotiation taking place for all parties to protect themselves. It's plainly obvious - if everyone agreed this is Ben's last year, adding a few dummy years to spread the cap hit would be trivial. At Week 11, the guy was in the MVP running.

I'm not in a hurry to dump Ben to rebuild a team run by Mike Tomlin. Odds are we won't get another franchise QB for at least a decade. The people gnashing their teeth over Ben's salary/cap hit are bedwetting - a few years without a franchise QB and you're forced to overpay JAGs to meet the cap requirements. It's a non-issue.
@Kodiak
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:59 pm

K_C_ wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:38 pm
Mick wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:34 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:24 pm


Teams figured out the "throw the ball in 2 seconds or less" horseshit and that was IT.

Next year, they're going to force Ben to throw the ball downfield....and he will likely get broken in half on the field trying.

.....against a much, much tougher schedule.
i don’t disagree with any of that. My point is simply this:

The 2021 steelers roster is likely to be the most talented roster we have in the next 10 years. I’d rather not give up before preseason.
Yep, all we can do is see what happens after the roster is settled.
Holy shit... @K_C_ and @Mick agreeing on something football-related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA1SxZoFmOU

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Post by SteelerKahuna » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:00 pm

Above comment about Ben having 0 endorsements $ is hilarious. Sort of like the boy who kills both parents and pleads for mercy from the judge since he is now an orphan. There is a BIG reason that companies do not want to use Ben as a marketing tool.
Ben is not owed a “farewell” year.No Steeler great ever got such a send off. For those referring to Franco finishing career as a Seahawk — even he admits it was a mistake ( Steelers offered him a fair contract but he let pride get in the way).
Rip the band aid off!. They are an 8-9 team with Ben in 2021. Time to move on and rebuild

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Post by K_C_ » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:06 pm

SteelerKahuna wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:00 pm
Above comment about Ben having 0 endorsements $ is hilarious. Sort of like the boy who kills both parents and pleads for mercy from the judge since he is now an orphan. There is a BIG reason that companies do not want to use Ben as a marketing tool.
Ben is not owed a “farewell” year.No Steeler great ever got such a send off. For those referring to Franco finishing career as a Seahawk — even he admits it was a mistake ( Steelers offered him a fair contract but he let pride get in the way).
Rip the band aid off!. They are an 8-9 team with Ben in 2021. Time to move on and rebuild
With our schedule next season and with how Roethlisberger and the offense performed the last quarter of the campaign, I think you're being generous calling us an 8 or 9 win team.

I'll be very surprised if we win 8 or 9 games next year.

Where I disagree is that Roethlisberger should have the opportunity to be the starting QB next year..to a point. If Ben looks like shit and is a mistake machine, then move on to Mason or Haskins and be done with it.

If Ben can revive the magic and get it going again, great.

But do not fucking wait and let things play out like they did late in the season.

If Ben isn't cutting it, put his ass on the bench once and for all.
"In my opinion, he is a great motivator and good leader of men, but a shit tactician and absolutely game day imbecile".

Baltostiller

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jeemie
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Post by jeemie » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:15 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:51 pm
jeemie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:18 am
That kind of sentimentality kills football teams.

I want the Steelers who let Franco Harris go to Seattle, not the Steelers who force fed a backwards pass to Hines Ward so he could set the receptions record.

Ben's been paid handsomely in his career...he never once took a discount so the team could be better.

He's got two rings. He will be in Canton some day.

They can have a Ben Roethlisberger Day next year so he can say goodbye, but you don't put yourself in cap hell for more years so he can "have a farewell tour".
You keep saying that... it's just not true. I realize it's complicated because of the old contract money getting rolled into the new contract, but let's break it down:

When he signed his 2008 deal, he was only top 5 money earned for a year. He then dropped to about 6 for a year or two and then plummetted to ~14-16th. If you average the years of 2008 until the new money of his next deal in 2015 kicked in, he was around the 12th highest paid QB in the NFL during that time. Do you think he was remotely close to being the 12th best QB in the league during that time? Even the 2015 new money AND the advanced money paid in his 2019 extension only kicked him up to about 12th in the NFL for that time frame (I think he won the passing yardage title in two of those years and threw up three of the most highly-rated QB games of the decade during that period). His new money last 2 years paid him $20M/per, which was roughly 14th in the NFL. Probably a little low, even for his performance level last year viewed through the most pessimistic lens.

Explain to me how he has never taken a hit for the betterment of the team? Remember, although you can blame Ben for his situation, he has nearly zero endorsement money now or in the future––other QBs of his stature have millions per year. He'll go down as one of the most underpaid QBs of his era (who doesn't have a supermodel wife).
jeemie wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:06 pm
So why delay the arrival of the future?
Because you're essentially saying you'd rather trust Tomlin to rebuild a team without Ben than Ben to outplay Tomlin's coaching for a year or two.
No I’m hoping Mike Tomlin leaves about the same time Ben does.

And Ben can’t outplay Tomlin’s coaching anymore.

And I’m not 100% sure Ben isn’t a part of what’s wrong.

PS about him getting paid. If I’m not mistaken his cap hit as a percentage of overall cap hit has always been larger than someone like, say Tom Brady. I stand willing to be corrected on that.

Plus when restructure his deals he’s not getting less money...he’s getting more money upfront so his cap hit can be spread out.

The best way is to go by how much money the dude has actually been paid out over his career.

In 21 seasons, Tom Brady has earned only $10 million more than Ben has in 17 years. Tom has 7 rings...Ben has 2.

Who’s been the better value, in both absolute and results terms?
Last edited by jeemie on Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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