Ben will be back!

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K_C_
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Re: Ben will be back!

Post by K_C_ » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:21 pm

zeke5123 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:23 pm
Rudolph and Haskins suck. They aren't the future. I think Ben will be fine with Canada; bigger point is keeping Tomlin limited to giving press conferences.
They might "suck" in comparison with the Ben Roethlisberger we've enjoyed watching for most of his career.

What they are in comparison with the current Ben Roethlisberger? That has yet to be determined.

But I have a feeling we're going to see very possibly both of them under center in non-preseason games this upcoming season.

Not buying for one millisecond Ben lasts 16 games.

Huh uh.


"In my opinion, he is a great motivator and good leader of men, but a shit tactician and absolutely game day imbecile".

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COR-TEN
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Post by COR-TEN » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:32 pm

Suffice it to say the 2021-22 season is unpredictable. There are so many holes that nobody knows what the fuck this team will look like come september. Oline, LBers, RBs, whatever.

But I don't know if BR is really up to the task unless he's open to a more dynamic offense.

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Post by Ice » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:51 pm

This. Also, you could check an awful lot of other QBs won/lost records look similar under similar circumstances... that's a lot of under 100 yards as a team rushing performances in Ben's career, by the way. One thing if one RB doesn't have 100 yards, but the whole team...

12-0-1 since 2018 when the TEAM rushes for 100 yards. Barely league average. But yeah, Ben's washed, and he's the problem.
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Post by jewelsongs » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:06 pm

Ice wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:51 pm
This. Also, you could check an awful lot of other QBs won/lost records look similar under similar circumstances... that's a lot of under 100 yards as a team rushing performances in Ben's career, by the way. One thing if one RB doesn't have 100 yards, but the whole team...

12-0-1 since 2018 when the TEAM rushes for 100 yards. Barely league average. But yeah, Ben's washed, and he's the problem.
Chris Carter had an interesting analysis of this on DK Sports today. The running backs can't gain yards when we don't let them run.That is Ben calling the plays at the line of scrimmage. Maybe Ben is the problem. Running backs don't throw 4 interceptions in the first playoff game.

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Post by COR-TEN » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:10 pm

Ice wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:51 pm
This. Also, you could check an awful lot of other QBs won/lost records look similar under similar circumstances... that's a lot of under 100 yards as a team rushing performances in Ben's career, by the way. One thing if one RB doesn't have 100 yards, but the whole team...

12-0-1 since 2018 when the TEAM rushes for 100 yards. Barely league average. But yeah, Ben's washed, and he's the problem.
Maybe play action has a role here. BR is, obviously, if you will, part of the problem. Maybe it's about other issues, but he's the QB and not absolved of blame over the late season collapse. Especially the last game.

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Post by Ice » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:41 pm

The running backs are Conner, Samuels, the kid from Maryland and Benny Snail, the IOL for the last half of the season was mostly an injured Decastro, Hassenauer and Matt Feiler, but sure, Ben's the biggest problem, because he calls all the plays, all the time. Tons of actual evidence to support that hypothesis.

Maybe passes were getting called because the aforementioned JAGs couldn't do their jobs in the run game? Like, seriously, good gawd, look at that personnel.

Man, group think on Ben really has taken over.
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Post by K_C_ » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:11 am

Ice wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:41 pm
The running backs are Conner, Samuels, the kid from Maryland and Benny Snail, the IOL for the last half of the season was mostly an injured Decastro, Hassenauer and Matt Feiler, but sure, Ben's the biggest problem, because he calls all the plays, all the time. Tons of actual evidence to support that hypothesis.

Maybe passes were getting called because the aforementioned JAGs couldn't do their jobs in the run game? Like, seriously, good gawd, look at that personnel.

Man, group think on Ben really has taken over.
I'm sure it'll all be fixed though, going into next season.
"In my opinion, he is a great motivator and good leader of men, but a shit tactician and absolutely game day imbecile".

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Post by Ice » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:31 am

See, thing is, the 12-0-1 stat is only if the TEAM rushes for 100 yards. That's basically league average or a little better. It doesn't need to become great, excellent, or even good. Fair or average gets you there. That can be accomplished in an off-season by an NFL team. I trust Colbert to get the personnel. Play calling and coaching em up? Not so much, but between them, there's a decent chance they can pull off league average.
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Post by Ice » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:48 am

jewelsongs wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:06 pm
Ice wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:51 pm
This. Also, you could check an awful lot of other QBs won/lost records look similar under similar circumstances... that's a lot of under 100 yards as a team rushing performances in Ben's career, by the way. One thing if one RB doesn't have 100 yards, but the whole team...

12-0-1 since 2018 when the TEAM rushes for 100 yards. Barely league average. But yeah, Ben's washed, and he's the problem.
Chris Carter had an interesting analysis of this on DK Sports today. The running backs can't gain yards when we don't let them run.That is Ben calling the plays at the line of scrimmage. Maybe Ben is the problem. Running backs don't throw 4 interceptions in the first playoff game.
If Chris, DK, or whoever watched the Steelers running game last season and thought that more carries was the solution, I don't know why you're subscribing. Take a good look at the YPC. That would be feeding money into the rigged slot machine after you know it's rigged, praying for a payoff... and it's not like they didn't waste whole halves of games doing just that.

Again, if you've already resigned yourself to the "Ben is the problem" media-driven group think, you're probably not thinking along these lines, but maybe they (whoever was at any given time) stopped calling run plays because, you know, they weren't working?
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Post by stillthere » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:25 am

Charles Demarr wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:29 pm
No playoffs and a first round selection near pick 20. Not ideal.....
14 playoff teams now so the best record not to make the playoffs picks at number 18 ( I know it is near 20) in the first round. So if they are the last team not to make the playoffs they have a shitty pick at number 18. If they go 6-10 like someone said up above then they will pick probably in the top 12. With that position you could move up for a stud QB or trade down and gather an extra few picks.

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Post by El Kabong » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:53 am

K_C_ wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:32 pm
El Kabong wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:35 am
K_C_ wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:04 am


Oh I do too.

This place will be a scream.

:lol:
I think you MAY be right, but I don't think you can be as certain as you are projecting.
:lol:

Riiiiiiiiiight..........
If the Steelers make the playoffs this year, you are going to get a post full of laughing emojis.
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Post by Havoc » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:14 am

Ice wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:48 am
jewelsongs wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:06 pm
Ice wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:51 pm


This. Also, you could check an awful lot of other QBs won/lost records look similar under similar circumstances... that's a lot of under 100 yards as a team rushing performances in Ben's career, by the way. One thing if one RB doesn't have 100 yards, but the whole team...

12-0-1 since 2018 when the TEAM rushes for 100 yards. Barely league average. But yeah, Ben's washed, and he's the problem.
Chris Carter had an interesting analysis of this on DK Sports today. The running backs can't gain yards when we don't let them run.That is Ben calling the plays at the line of scrimmage. Maybe Ben is the problem. Running backs don't throw 4 interceptions in the first playoff game.
If Chris, DK, or whoever watched the Steelers running game last season and thought that more carries was the solution, I don't know why you're subscribing. Take a good look at the YPC. That would be feeding money into the rigged slot machine after you know it's rigged, praying for a payoff... and it's not like they didn't waste whole halves of games doing just that.

Again, if you've already resigned yourself to the "Ben is the problem" media-driven group think, you're probably not thinking along these lines, but maybe they (whoever was at any given time) stopped calling run plays because, you know, they weren't working?
Good job Ice

I heard some national dope on the radio recently say the problem was the Steelers chose not to run. He said we had the personnel to do it. What a joke. Clearly he was not a student of the 2020 Steelers.

Note: might have been better results with Dotson on the field the entire season
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Post by jewelsongs » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:22 am

Ice wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:48 am
jewelsongs wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:06 pm
Ice wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:51 pm


This. Also, you could check an awful lot of other QBs won/lost records look similar under similar circumstances... that's a lot of under 100 yards as a team rushing performances in Ben's career, by the way. One thing if one RB doesn't have 100 yards, but the whole team...

12-0-1 since 2018 when the TEAM rushes for 100 yards. Barely league average. But yeah, Ben's washed, and he's the problem.
Chris Carter had an interesting analysis of this on DK Sports today. The running backs can't gain yards when we don't let them run.That is Ben calling the plays at the line of scrimmage. Maybe Ben is the problem. Running backs don't throw 4 interceptions in the first playoff game.
If Chris, DK, or whoever watched the Steelers running game last season and thought that more carries was the solution, I don't know why you're subscribing. Take a good look at the YPC. That would be feeding money into the rigged slot machine after you know it's rigged, praying for a payoff... and it's not like they didn't waste whole halves of games doing just that.

Again, if you've already resigned yourself to the "Ben is the problem" media-driven group think, you're probably not thinking along these lines, but maybe they (whoever was at any given time) stopped calling run plays because, you know, they weren't working?
I haven't subscribed to Ben is the problem. I also haven't subscribed to Ben is not part of the problem. It is possible to think he is part of the problem without being a "media driven group" thinker. If you can't see that Ben is part of the problem, I am not sure what Steelers games you are watching. The short passes were predictable, and caused the offense to sputter. But I am certain it was the line, the running backs, the offensive coordinator, and especially Tomlin, who apparently calls the offense, even though there is no evidence supporting that. Not Ben.

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Post by Ice » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:45 am

Take a look at YPC on the running backs for the season, if you don't remember screaming at the TV for the first half of like, every game, to stop wasting downs with 1 and 2 yard runs.

Then, take a look at the stat Lit broke out in the other thread that, despite the fact that the ball was coming out in 2.3 seconds, the QB was getting hit and pressured as much as 3/4 of the damn league.

That's a historically shitty group of RBs and Feiler, Hassenauer and Company on the IOL being incapable of run or pass blocking, allowing pressure into the QB's lap.

The short passes maybe, just maybe, were some of the only things that had any chance of working. But nah, all Ben's fault because he won't run a QB sneak.

And yeah, Havoc, not keeping Dotson on the field when healthy was asinine. We don't need to dominate the league in rushing. No yinzer RPOs. Just a fairly competent, league average, complimentary rushing attack to keep defenses honest.
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Post by 955876 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:02 am

nobody knows what the fuck this team will look like come september.
Problem isn’t what they look like in September but rather the “Standard” they’ll revert to come December.

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Post by jewelsongs » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:05 am

Ice wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:45 am
Take a look at YPC on the running backs for the season, if you don't remember screaming at the TV for the first half of like, every game, to stop wasting downs with 1 and 2 yard runs.

Then, take a look at the stat Lit broke out in the other thread that, despite the fact that the ball was coming out in 2.3 seconds, the QB was getting hit and pressured as much as 3/4 of the damn league.

That's a historically shitty group of RBs and Feiler, Hassenauer and Company on the IOL being incapable of run or pass blocking, allowing pressure into the QB's lap.

The short passes maybe, just maybe, were some of the only things that had any chance of working. But nah, all Ben's fault because he won't run a QB sneak.
It would be helpful if you would respond to my points, rather than suggesting the fact that Ben doesn't run QB sneaks somehow has something to do with my argument. In the Browns-Steelers game with Rudolph at QB, the running game averaged 4.3 yards per carry. Rudolph took many snaps under center, allowing play action to come into play. It is documented that Ben ran less play action than any other regular QB in the league. When you take all the snaps in the shotgun, and the linemen are all standing up in pass protection, the running game suffers. The intermediate and long passes worked fine with Rudolph. So no, "The short passes maybe, just maybe, were some of the only things that had any chance of working" doesn't hold water either. I haven't said it is all Ben's fault. but he is certainly part of what is wrong. But feel free to make up some other things I said in your next response.

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Post by steelmann58 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:30 am

I think year two from the surgery will bring better things for Ben

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Post by 955876 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:37 am

steelmann58 wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:30 am
I think year two from the surgery will bring better things for Ben
He wasn’t coming back from a leg injury. Just saying.

Now I agree with your point his arm should be even stronger this year.

But that isn’t going to help Mr. stuck in the mud either.

An off-season of doing a quarter of what Alex Smith did to get back onto the field would do Ben wonders.

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Post by Kodiak » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:37 am

jewelsongs wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:05 am
[It would be helpful if you would respond to my points, rather than suggesting the fact that Ben doesn't run QB sneaks somehow has something to do with my argument. In the Browns-Steelers game with Rudolph at QB, the running game averaged 4.3 yards per carry. Rudolph took many snaps under center, allowing play action to come into play.
C'mon, that's a one game sample size. One game that happens to also be the only game Canada called.

I'm sure a lot of things people are complaining about would have worked in some games. But, at the end of the day, that OL was bottom-5 in the league and offense - and their QB's - almost universally suck in that scenario.
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Post by jewelsongs » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:04 am

Kodiak wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:37 am
jewelsongs wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:05 am
[It would be helpful if you would respond to my points, rather than suggesting the fact that Ben doesn't run QB sneaks somehow has something to do with my argument. In the Browns-Steelers game with Rudolph at QB, the running game averaged 4.3 yards per carry. Rudolph took many snaps under center, allowing play action to come into play.
C'mon, that's a one game sample size. One game that happens to also be the only game Canada called.

I'm sure a lot of things people are complaining about would have worked in some games. But, at the end of the day, that OL was bottom-5 in the league and offense - and their QB's - almost universally suck in that scenario.
In game 1 against the Giants, the running game averaged 4.7 yards per game. In game 2 against the Broncos, the running game averaged 5.0 yards per game. In game 3 against the Texans, the running game averaged 4.4 yards per carry. In game 4 against the Eagles, the running game averaged 4.4 yards per carry. Canada's influence was felt on the running game, with the same backs and the same linemen as we had at the end of the season. We started away from those formations against the Browns in game 5, replacing them with the short passing game. That initially worked but was diagnosed by the Ravens in game 7, and everyone after that followed that same defensive gameplan.

I am certainly not arguing that our offensive line is all pro level, or that our running backs are. But play action works, and Ben doesn't run it. That hurts the running game. I am simply saying that Ben is also at fault for the offensive performance, and he is by far the highest paid. I am surprised how many people on this site can't concede that.

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Post by RemoAZ » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:20 am

Ben was never good enough to carry the team to a SB but he was and possibly still is good enough to win a SB with a top 5 defense and running game. The defense should still be strong even without Dupree and between free agency and the draft, putting together a good line/running game isn't out of the question. Another run is possible imo. Why not take one more shot?
Howard Griffith had to resort to chop-blocking him during the 1997 AFC Championship Game. An incredulous Kirkland asked Griffith, “Why do you have to use cheap tactics like chop-blocking?” Griffith replied “Why do you have to be a 300-pound linebacker?”

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Post by K_C_ » Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:38 pm

El Kabong wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:53 am
K_C_ wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:32 pm
El Kabong wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:35 am


I think you MAY be right, but I don't think you can be as certain as you are projecting.
:lol:

Riiiiiiiiiight..........
If the Steelers make the playoffs this year, you are going to get a post full of laughing emojis.
...and then one week later, when we lose to some piece of shit nobody and Ben turns it over 4 more times, what kind of post will I get?
"In my opinion, he is a great motivator and good leader of men, but a shit tactician and absolutely game day imbecile".

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Post by Professor Half Wit » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:20 pm

El Kabong wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:53 am
K_C_ wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:32 pm
El Kabong wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:35 am


I think you MAY be right, but I don't think you can be as certain as you are projecting.
:lol:

Riiiiiiiiiight..........
If the Steelers make the playoffs this year, you are going to get a post full of laughing emojis.
Isn't the major fear (not endorsing what follows) that the team is just not good enough to win the Super Bowl and will possibly be good, not great, make the playoffs, get bounced first round (there is now ample reason to think this will happen), and end up with a low, shitty pic and no shot at moving up for a QB worth anything with Ben riding off into retirement?

I'd like to say anything can happen in the playoffs, but we're going to need some stud oline and RB acquisitions to make this work.

Also, the team keeps sending smoke signals they like Mason (they're not going to come out publicly and say he sucks, obviously). Is the plan to overpay Mason in FA 2022 and see what he's got as starter for a season since we are going to win too many games with Ben back to have any shot at a QB the following draft?
Last edited by Professor Half Wit on Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MJG75 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:21 pm

Greeksteel wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:49 pm
Aditi Kinkhabwala
@AKinkhabwala
Ben Roethlisberger will indeed be back as the #Steelers starting QB this fall. Just connected w/ the two-time Super Bowl winner’s agent, Ryan Tollner, who said this:
Ryan Tollner: They want Ben back and will contact me soon to address his cap situation. As we've shared since the season ended, we are happy to creatively adjust his contract to help them build the best team possible. A year ago, Ben wasn't sure if he could throw again, but he battled back to get 12 wins and the 8th division title of his career. They lost steam down the stretch and that doesn't sit well with for him, so the fire burns strong and theres plenty of gas left in the tank.


Love it! Lets fucking Go!!
YES! I am as pleased as can be for many, many reasons. I'm ready! As B2B's avatar says, slightly changed, I don't care, #herewego!!!

Seriously, the man is a winner, Yes, it's been a decade since we won a championship game. Realize the odds are somewhat stacked. But! If we can recreate a decent run game (OL and backfield), and keep the D strong (again, these are not easy to do, but we CAN do them!), Ben can be successful. He may not be able to carry us completely the way he could do many times over the course of his career, but he can be an integral piece.

I know some on here will deride and scoff. I know I'm also the person who is more optimistic about the Buccos in the near future than any of our other 2 teams right now. I know. But man, just look at the way the TEAM played in the first half or so of last season. The run game wasn't spectacular but it was definitely solid, which is all you probably need. The D was aggressive and often dominant, but then key injuries piled up and we weren't able to sustain that level of play. Ben can't win under those conditions. He might win enough to get us limping to a playoff spot, but he needs that complement to win, and he can do it. He has the savvy, he has the experience, he has the desire. The question is can his 39 year old body hold up? It will be a question we can only answer by playing the games, but I am also going to be a contrarian here and say it's also possible his arm strength will be even better with time removed from the surgery. We'll see, but I'm definitely looking forward to seeing!

Yes, I'm on board with it may be time for Coach Tomlin (God bless you coach, hope you feel better soon!) to move on to other pastures, but with a lot of new coaches on the team, and a hungry Ben at the helm, let's see if Coach T can find some of what he found in 2019 with nobodies at QB and get us rolling! What he found in the early part of 2010 to keep us going with Ben out for 4 games and got us to the dance.

This buys us more time to see what we will have at the QB position. See if Haskins can turn it around. See if someone else out there we could draft or trade for could help us in the future. I'm good with it and meanwhile we are in the process of building up the team around that position with some cap relief and a sure veteran QB to take us to 2021! Let's Go, Ben!!! Let's GO, Steelers!!! Let's GO! I'm ready for kickoff right now!

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Post by Ice » Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:51 pm

I'm with MJG.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:53 pm

jewelsongs wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:06 pm
Ice wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:51 pm
This. Also, you could check an awful lot of other QBs won/lost records look similar under similar circumstances... that's a lot of under 100 yards as a team rushing performances in Ben's career, by the way. One thing if one RB doesn't have 100 yards, but the whole team...

12-0-1 since 2018 when the TEAM rushes for 100 yards. Barely league average. But yeah, Ben's washed, and he's the problem.
Chris Carter had an interesting analysis of this on DK Sports today. The running backs can't gain yards when we don't let them run.That is Ben calling the plays at the line of scrimmage. Maybe Ben is the problem. Running backs don't throw 4 interceptions in the first playoff game.
Worst YPC on the league. Stacked boxes. Crappy OL play. Crappy RBs. RUN MORE!!!

Yeah, I’m sure that’ll work.

Did you ever think that Ben is making the best available decision out of a set of unpalatable choices available to him? That he hates losing and that pounding the rock with shit line and shit play all and shit RBs is a recipe for losing?

Yinz are freakin ingrates who don’t appreciate wins because they’re not pretty enough and don’t result in a SB parade every year.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:55 pm

@MJG75 thank you for being alive!

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Post by Baltostiller » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:29 pm

Someone else posted this and I think it is interesting.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2 ... ce-pouncey
Regular season

Status Games Passes Complete Comp% Yards TD INT YPA Rating
W/O #60 11 429 289 67.40% 2875 27 5 6.7 102.3
W/ #60 4 179 110 61.50% 928 6 5 5.2 74.4

No one correlates to the Steelers offensive failures like J.C. Hassenauer does. Hassenauer played 25% or more of offensive snaps in 5 of the Steelers 17 games this past season. In those 5 games the Steelers offense scored a combined 90 points. That’s 18 points a game when Hassenauer played. In the other 12 games the Steelers scored 363 points, just over 30 points a game.

Desperately need to fix the O-Line.

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Post by stinger8 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:37 pm

zeke5123 wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:22 pm
Ice wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:53 pm
Rebuilding the running game in a single off-season is going to be a chore. Replacing Pouncey is going to be difficult, and you're not doing it in the draft this year even if you use a first rounder on it. Even if Highsmith makes a jump from his rookie year, there's depth on the front 7 to address. TE looks like a glaring issue, and WR depth could use a look if Juju walks in FA. That's a lot to do, for sure, but hey, it's not impossible. Do it, or come close, and you've got something.

If you're dipping your toes into the FA market, a capable stopgap OC (it ain't Hassenauer) is probably the best use of funds. Haven't even looked into that jar of flies yet.
I think finding a passable center should be relatively easy. Won't be elite, but we haven't had elite in a while. Big upgrade on the line will be getting (hopefully) 16 games out of Dotson. Feiler was terrible last year at guard, Dotson was basically PB caliber. Big upgrade.
Paging Dr Wallace :lol: :lol:

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Post by Jizz Mop » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:47 pm

When do playoff tickets go on sale?

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