Ben will be back!

[jewelsongs]

This. Also, you could check an awful lot of other QBs won/lost records look similar under similar circumstances... that's a lot of under 100 yards as a team rushing performances in Ben's career, by the way. One thing if one RB doesn't have 100 yards, but the whole team...

12-0-1 since 2018 when the TEAM rushes for 100 yards. Barely league average. But yeah, Ben's washed, and he's the problem.

Chris Carter had an interesting analysis of this on DK Sports today. The running backs can't gain yards when we don't let them run.That is Ben calling the plays at the line of scrimmage. Maybe Ben is the problem. Running backs don't throw 4 interceptions in the first playoff game.

Worst YPC on the league. Stacked boxes. Crappy OL play. Crappy RBs. RUN MORE!!!

Yeah, I’m sure that’ll work.

Did you ever think that Ben is making the best available decision out of a set of unpalatable choices available to him? That he hates losing and that pounding the rock with shit line and shit play all and shit RBs is a recipe for losing?

Yinz are freakin ingrates who don’t appreciate wins because they’re not pretty enough and don’t result in a SB parade every year.

I have always avoided personal insults in my responses, and will do so here as well. Ben won't go under center, and he won't run play action. My previous post showed the running game in the first 4 games when they were using Canada's flavor on the offense. The "shit line and shit play all and shit RBs" did fine then, as they did in the game Rudolph played. The stacked box happened after Baltimore realized Ben was going to dump the ball, getting it out in record time. Defensive linemen kept their hands up and batted down many balls.

Michael Lombardi wrote a great article in the Athletic today that also suggests Ben contributes to the problem. To quote, "Roethlisberger cannot run; he cannot avoid or escape. He will run only when the field looks like an empty parking lot in front of him. This raises the question: How can you run the ball with an immobile quarterback who plays exclusively from the shotgun? When the defense never has to worry about the quarterback’s movement, then the RPO game is not a factor, and all the runs are easy to predict. This spread attack makes the offense soft, becoming more finesse. Offensive linemen never can come off the ball to gain control of the line of scrimmage, and they end up taking a beating, with constant punching in pass protection. There is a place for the spread — but not on every single down, which is what Roethlisberger prefers."

We can agree to disagree. No one wants the Steelers to win more than me. But we aren't winning this year with or without Ben. Keeping him just delays the future by one year. Enjoy the ugly wins this year.

[Ice]

Riiiiiiiiiight..........

If the Steelers make the playoffs this year, you are going to get a post full of laughing emojis.

Isn't the major fear (not endorsing what follows) that the team is just not good enough to win the Super Bowl and will possibly be good, not great, make the playoffs, get bounced first round (there is now ample reason to think this will happen), and end up with a low, shitty pic and no shot at moving up for a QB worth anything with Ben riding off into retirement?

I'd like to say anything can happen in the playoffs, but we're going to need some stud oline and RB acquisitions to make this work.

Also, the team keeps sending smoke signals they like Mason (they're not going to come out publicly and say he sucks, obviously). Is the plan to overpay Mason in FA 2022 and see what he's got as starter for a season since we are going to win too many games with Ben back to have any shot at a QB the following draft?

The national media talking heads have a borderline unhealthy obsession with the idea that Haskins somehow resurrecting his career (not entirely sure if "resurrecting" is even really the correct word here, honestly, and I'm likely the biggest Haskins fan on Steelerfury... it hasn't been pretty) in Pittsburgh is a very real part of the FO's plan. The view from outside is weird, sometimes...

Either way, another draft of roster-building before going all in on a C1 rookie QB after Ben goes might not be the worst thing. The QB being the last thing to drop into place on a young, loaded roster seems to be the order of operations for the longest window of success. Our roster isn't exactly in the "loaded" range yet...

[zeke5123]

Chris Carter had an interesting analysis of this on DK Sports today. The running backs can't gain yards when we don't let them run.That is Ben calling the plays at the line of scrimmage. Maybe Ben is the problem. Running backs don't throw 4 interceptions in the first playoff game.

Worst YPC on the league. Stacked boxes. Crappy OL play. Crappy RBs. RUN MORE!!!

Yeah, I’m sure that’ll work.

Did you ever think that Ben is making the best available decision out of a set of unpalatable choices available to him? That he hates losing and that pounding the rock with shit line and shit play all and shit RBs is a recipe for losing?

Yinz are freakin ingrates who don’t appreciate wins because they’re not pretty enough and don’t result in a SB parade every year.

I have always avoided personal insults in my responses, and will do so here as well. Ben won't go under center, and he won't run play action. My previous post showed the running game in the first 4 games when they were using Canada's flavor on the offense. The "shit line and shit play all and shit RBs" did fine then, as they did in the game Rudolph played. The stacked box happened after Baltimore realized Ben was going to dump the ball, getting it out in record time. Defensive linemen kept their hands up and batted down many balls.

Michael Lombardi wrote a great article in the Athletic today that also suggests Ben contributes to the problem. To quote, "Roethlisberger cannot run; he cannot avoid or escape. He will run only when the field looks like an empty parking lot in front of him. This raises the question: How can you run the ball with an immobile quarterback who plays exclusively from the shotgun? When the defense never has to worry about the quarterback’s movement, then the RPO game is not a factor, and all the runs are easy to predict. This spread attack makes the offense soft, becoming more finesse. Offensive linemen never can come off the ball to gain control of the line of scrimmage, and they end up taking a beating, with constant punching in pass protection. There is a place for the spread — but not on every single down, which is what Roethlisberger prefers."

We can agree to disagree. No one wants the Steelers to win more than me. But we aren't winning this year with or without Ben. Keeping him just delays the future by one year. Enjoy the ugly wins this year.

It would seem they did good in games where Dotson played.

[Ice]

Per a Depot (I think) writeup that was posted here, they also did AWFULLY in games that Hassenauer played, and worse in games he and Feiler played. That is one HELL of a gaping hole down the middle of your OL. Eliminates running game and deep/intermediate passes from the play sheet completely, as trying either will pretty much result in a TFL.

Also, let's not forget that the legendarily fleet-footed winged god of the RPO Tom Brady won the Super Bowl this year. With, by the end of the season, pretty much the best OL in the NFL.

[Orangesteel]

Brady can’t run either. So care to explain their success as he drinks avocado tequila from a boat somewhere?

This is a COACHING FAILURE. Poorly designed offense, poor evaluation of talent (our RB corps? not playing Dotson in the Wildcard game against Cleveland? Pulling our beast rookie WR from the game plan multiple weeks?)

Ben isn’t the problem. These fucking moron coaches are.

[Orangesteel]

Per a Depot (I think) writeup that was posted here, they also did AWFULLY in games that Hassenauer played, and worse in games he and Feiler played. That is one HELL of a gaping hole down the middle of your OL. Eliminates running game and deep/intermediate passes from the play sheet completely, as trying either will pretty much result in a TFL.

Also, let's not forget that the legendarily fleet-footed winged god of the RPO Tom Brady won the Super Bowl this year. With, by the end of the season, pretty much the best OL in the NFL.

Right. Tom “Mike Vick in his prime” Brady just threw another ring on his finger.

[Jobu]

There are also articles and statistics that show teams run more effectively from the shotgun (spread). But that’s not good enough in Pittsburgh where “we gotta pound that rock!”

The running game sets up play action, not vice versa.
You can use play action out of the shotgun.
RPOs are not based on having a mobile QB.
I’ve watched several videos of Canada’s offense. A large portion of it comes out of the shotgun.
Ben might be done, or he may have a little left...the Steelers inability to run the football does not fall on his shoulders.
The problem is a conservative outdated philosophy and old school blocking scheme.
I blame the head coach!

[955876]

Brady can’t run either. So care to explain their success as he drinks avocado tequila from a boat somewhere?

This is a COACHING FAILURE. Poorly designed offense, poor evaluation of talent (our RB corps? not playing Dotson in the Wildcard game against Cleveland? Pulling our beast rookie WR from the game plan multiple weeks?)

Ben isn’t the problem. These fucking moron coaches are.

I agree with with 99.9% of this. The exception being that part of these decisions (IMO) are made because of Ben.

How can they not be?


While Ben isn’t THE problem he certainly is at least part of the problem.

Why else would a coach remove play action, QB sneaks, etc etc etc if not to compensate for either what his QB doesn’t want to do or what his QB can’t do?

[Baltostiller]

Per a Depot (I think) writeup that was posted here, they also did AWFULLY in games that Hassenauer played, and worse in games he and Feiler played. That is one HELL of a gaping hole down the middle of your OL. Eliminates running game and deep/intermediate passes from the play sheet completely, as trying either will pretty much result in a TFL.

Also, let's not forget that the legendarily fleet-footed winged god of the RPO Tom Brady won the Super Bowl this year. With, by the end of the season, pretty much the best OL in the NFL.

I posted this on the last page.

Someone else posted this and I think it is interesting.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2 ... ce-pouncey
Regular season

Status Games Passes Complete Comp% Yards TD INT YPA Rating
W/O #60 11 429 289 67.40% 2875 27 5 6.7 102.3
W/ #60 4 179 110 61.50% 928 6 5 5.2 74.4

No one correlates to the Steelers offensive failures like J.C. Hassenauer does. Hassenauer played 25% or more of offensive snaps in 5 of the Steelers 17 games this past season. In those 5 games the Steelers offense scored a combined 90 points. That’s 18 points a game when Hassenauer played. In the other 12 games the Steelers scored 363 points, just over 30 points a game.

Desperately need to fix the O-Line.

[Orangesteel]

I agree that the Oline had some serious ups and downs this season. Beyond injuries, how could they account for some very poor play at times from foundational guys like Villy, Pouncey and DD?

But again, coaching decisions added to this misery. Coaches need to be better next season. And that’s not even talking about the defensive side of the ball.

[bradshaw2ben]

Chris Carter had an interesting analysis of this on DK Sports today. The running backs can't gain yards when we don't let them run.That is Ben calling the plays at the line of scrimmage. Maybe Ben is the problem. Running backs don't throw 4 interceptions in the first playoff game.

Worst YPC on the league. Stacked boxes. Crappy OL play. Crappy RBs. RUN MORE!!!

Yeah, I’m sure that’ll work.

Did you ever think that Ben is making the best available decision out of a set of unpalatable choices available to him? That he hates losing and that pounding the rock with shit line and shit play all and shit RBs is a recipe for losing?

Yinz are freakin ingrates who don’t appreciate wins because they’re not pretty enough and don’t result in a SB parade every year.

I have always avoided personal insults in my responses, and will do so here as well. Ben won't go under center, and he won't run play action. My previous post showed the running game in the first 4 games when they were using Canada's flavor on the offense. The "shit line and shit play all and shit RBs" did fine then, as they did in the game Rudolph played. The stacked box happened after Baltimore realized Ben was going to dump the ball, getting it out in record time. Defensive linemen kept their hands up and batted down many balls.

Michael Lombardi wrote a great article in the Athletic today that also suggests Ben contributes to the problem. To quote, "Roethlisberger cannot run; he cannot avoid or escape. He will run only when the field looks like an empty parking lot in front of him. This raises the question: How can you run the ball with an immobile quarterback who plays exclusively from the shotgun? When the defense never has to worry about the quarterback’s movement, then the RPO game is not a factor, and all the runs are easy to predict. This spread attack makes the offense soft, becoming more finesse. Offensive linemen never can come off the ball to gain control of the line of scrimmage, and they end up taking a beating, with constant punching in pass protection. There is a place for the spread — but not on every single down, which is what Roethlisberger prefers."

We can agree to disagree. No one wants the Steelers to win more than me. But we aren't winning this year with or without Ben. Keeping him just delays the future by one year. Enjoy the ugly wins this year.

Well, that's what makes horse racing. I thought Lombardi's article was horsehit. This response in the comments sums it up nicely:

eh, tired narrative. The Steelers wanted Ben to throw quick to protect him from hits. This may in part have been an acknowledgement that their offensive line couldn't hold blocks very long, as well as protecting an older QB from the hits.

but Ben still has what it takes. in December, the Steelers had to go back to older style of play, meaning holding on to the ball for 2.5 or 3 seconds, and they had several explosive plays, including to JuJu, and Ben looked like the same old Ben.

People claim Ben only operates one way, when this doesn't seem to be reflected in his on-field actions. The offense typically starts a game slow, with a lot of hits and misses and poor rhythm, and when Ben goes to no huddle, it explodes and typically leads to points. To me, this indicates he is trying to do follow the coaches' game plan, not just doing his thing.

At any rate, his arm is still very strong, and his understanding of defenses is still excellent. If I were Canada, I would incorporate more pistol formations, which allow for interesting jet motions and RPOs, and is a compromise between under center vs shotgun.

Anytime you say "Ben can't" or Ben won't" or "Ben refuses to" I'm gonna call shenanigans on your argument. There is a crapload of bunk narrative surrounding this team, much of which conveniently lays the blame for all its woes on its QB. The corollary is the arguments that every opposing goal is Geno/Letang's fault. Find the player you want to blame and use reductive logic to get to the point you want to make.

Ben ran PA last year, he moved out of the pocket, he played as many snaps from under center as Patrick Mahomes and possibly more than Peyton Manning did in his last two years, where he was truly all of the things that people are saying now about Ben. Here was my comment on Lombardi's article:
.

Funny, The 2014-2015 Denver Broncos had an immobile QB with declining skills who played almost exclusively from the shotgun, and they had the 4th best Run game one year and won the Super Bowl with the 16th best run game. How is that possible? And after watching that QB's declining skills at the end of 2014, they brought him back for an almost embarrassing final year, only to see the team pull off a SB victory. What were they thinking???!!!

I'll tell you this: Denver was BEGGING Manning to come back. The fans were beside themselves with glee that he was returning, just after an incredibly deflating blowout postseason loss in the first round and three straight postseasons with lots of interceptions and disappointing finishes. But the fanbase PRAYED he would return. What did 2016 Manning have that 2021 Ben doesn't? What's so different about this situation in terms of how these QBs were viewed at this point of their career?

[jewelsongs]

Worst YPC on the league. Stacked boxes. Crappy OL play. Crappy RBs. RUN MORE!!!

Yeah, I’m sure that’ll work.

Did you ever think that Ben is making the best available decision out of a set of unpalatable choices available to him? That he hates losing and that pounding the rock with shit line and shit play all and shit RBs is a recipe for losing?

Yinz are freakin ingrates who don’t appreciate wins because they’re not pretty enough and don’t result in a SB parade every year.

I have always avoided personal insults in my responses, and will do so here as well. Ben won't go under center, and he won't run play action. My previous post showed the running game in the first 4 games when they were using Canada's flavor on the offense. The "shit line and shit play all and shit RBs" did fine then, as they did in the game Rudolph played. The stacked box happened after Baltimore realized Ben was going to dump the ball, getting it out in record time. Defensive linemen kept their hands up and batted down many balls.

Michael Lombardi wrote a great article in the Athletic today that also suggests Ben contributes to the problem. To quote, "Roethlisberger cannot run; he cannot avoid or escape. He will run only when the field looks like an empty parking lot in front of him. This raises the question: How can you run the ball with an immobile quarterback who plays exclusively from the shotgun? When the defense never has to worry about the quarterback’s movement, then the RPO game is not a factor, and all the runs are easy to predict. This spread attack makes the offense soft, becoming more finesse. Offensive linemen never can come off the ball to gain control of the line of scrimmage, and they end up taking a beating, with constant punching in pass protection. There is a place for the spread — but not on every single down, which is what Roethlisberger prefers."

We can agree to disagree. No one wants the Steelers to win more than me. But we aren't winning this year with or without Ben. Keeping him just delays the future by one year. Enjoy the ugly wins this year.

Well, that's what makes horse racing. I thought Lombardi's article was horsehit. This response in the comments sums it up nicely:

eh, tired narrative. The Steelers wanted Ben to throw quick to protect him from hits. This may in part have been an acknowledgement that their offensive line couldn't hold blocks very long, as well as protecting an older QB from the hits.

but Ben still has what it takes. in December, the Steelers had to go back to older style of play, meaning holding on to the ball for 2.5 or 3 seconds, and they had several explosive plays, including to JuJu, and Ben looked like the same old Ben.

People claim Ben only operates one way, when this doesn't seem to be reflected in his on-field actions. The offense typically starts a game slow, with a lot of hits and misses and poor rhythm, and when Ben goes to no huddle, it explodes and typically leads to points. To me, this indicates he is trying to do follow the coaches' game plan, not just doing his thing.

At any rate, his arm is still very strong, and his understanding of defenses is still excellent. If I were Canada, I would incorporate more pistol formations, which allow for interesting jet motions and RPOs, and is a compromise between under center vs shotgun.

Anytime you say "Ben can't" or Ben won't" or "Ben refuses to" I'm gonna call shenanigans on your argument. There is a crapload of bunk narrative surrounding this team, much of which conveniently lays the blame for all its woes on its QB. The corollary is the arguments that every opposing goal is Geno/Letang's fault. Find the player you want to blame and use reductive logic to get to the point you want to make.

Ben ran PA last year, he moved out of the pocket, he played as many snaps from under center as Patrick Mahomes and possibly more than Peyton Manning did in his last two years, where he was truly all of the things that people are saying now about Ben. Here was my comment on Lombardi's article:
.

Funny, The 2014-2015 Denver Broncos had an immobile QB with declining skills who played almost exclusively from the shotgun, and they had the 4th best Run game one year and won the Super Bowl with the 16th best run game. How is that possible? And after watching that QB's declining skills at the end of 2014, they brought him back for an almost embarrassing final year, only to see the team pull off a SB victory. What were they thinking???!!!

I'll tell you this: Denver was BEGGING Manning to come back. The fans were beside themselves with glee that he was returning, just after an incredibly deflating blowout postseason loss in the first round and three straight postseasons with lots of interceptions and disappointing finishes. But the fanbase PRAYED he would return. What did 2016 Manning have that 2021 Ben doesn't? What's so different about this situation in terms of how these QBs were viewed at this point of their career?

I am a Steelers fan, so I hope you are right. As I have said many times during this thread, I am not holding Ben to blame by himself, but rather partially to blame. Do you agree with that single statement?

[bradshaw2ben]

Brady can’t run either. So care to explain their success as he drinks avocado tequila from a boat somewhere?

This is a COACHING FAILURE. Poorly designed offense, poor evaluation of talent (our RB corps? not playing Dotson in the Wildcard game against Cleveland? Pulling our beast rookie WR from the game plan multiple weeks?)

Ben isn’t the problem. These fucking moron coaches are.

I agree with with 99.9% of this. The exception being that part of these decisions (IMO) are made because of Ben.

How can they not be?


While Ben isn’t THE problem he certainly is at least part of the problem.

Why else would a coach remove play action, QB sneaks, etc etc etc if not to compensate for either what his QB doesn’t want to do or what his QB can’t do?

PA depends heavily on the OL not being a sieve.

[bradshaw2ben]

@jewelsongs Of course—and I know you’re not only a Steelers fan... you’re a great Steelers fan.

Just don’t fall for all the hot garbage takes that are out there to get you riled up and clicking on ads. The Steelers will probably be about the same next year as they were last year, and with a little injury luck and maybe a coaching decision or two they might have a shot. Don’t rush into the future because 99% chance it’s grim for a while after Ben.

[Jobu]

Worst YPC on the league. Stacked boxes. Crappy OL play. Crappy RBs. RUN MORE!!!

Yeah, I’m sure that’ll work.

Did you ever think that Ben is making the best available decision out of a set of unpalatable choices available to him? That he hates losing and that pounding the rock with shit line and shit play all and shit RBs is a recipe for losing?

Yinz are freakin ingrates who don’t appreciate wins because they’re not pretty enough and don’t result in a SB parade every year.

I have always avoided personal insults in my responses, and will do so here as well. Ben won't go under center, and he won't run play action. My previous post showed the running game in the first 4 games when they were using Canada's flavor on the offense. The "shit line and shit play all and shit RBs" did fine then, as they did in the game Rudolph played. The stacked box happened after Baltimore realized Ben was going to dump the ball, getting it out in record time. Defensive linemen kept their hands up and batted down many balls.

Michael Lombardi wrote a great article in the Athletic today that also suggests Ben contributes to the problem. To quote, "Roethlisberger cannot run; he cannot avoid or escape. He will run only when the field looks like an empty parking lot in front of him. This raises the question: How can you run the ball with an immobile quarterback who plays exclusively from the shotgun? When the defense never has to worry about the quarterback’s movement, then the RPO game is not a factor, and all the runs are easy to predict. This spread attack makes the offense soft, becoming more finesse. Offensive linemen never can come off the ball to gain control of the line of scrimmage, and they end up taking a beating, with constant punching in pass protection. There is a place for the spread — but not on every single down, which is what Roethlisberger prefers."

We can agree to disagree. No one wants the Steelers to win more than me. But we aren't winning this year with or without Ben. Keeping him just delays the future by one year. Enjoy the ugly wins this year.

Well, that's what makes horse racing. I thought Lombardi's article was horsehit. This response in the comments sums it up nicely:

eh, tired narrative. The Steelers wanted Ben to throw quick to protect him from hits. This may in part have been an acknowledgement that their offensive line couldn't hold blocks very long, as well as protecting an older QB from the hits.

but Ben still has what it takes. in December, the Steelers had to go back to older style of play, meaning holding on to the ball for 2.5 or 3 seconds, and they had several explosive plays, including to JuJu, and Ben looked like the same old Ben.

People claim Ben only operates one way, when this doesn't seem to be reflected in his on-field actions. The offense typically starts a game slow, with a lot of hits and misses and poor rhythm, and when Ben goes to no huddle, it explodes and typically leads to points. To me, this indicates he is trying to do follow the coaches' game plan, not just doing his thing.

At any rate, his arm is still very strong, and his understanding of defenses is still excellent. If I were Canada, I would incorporate more pistol formations, which allow for interesting jet motions and RPOs, and is a compromise between under center vs shotgun.

Anytime you say "Ben can't" or Ben won't" or "Ben refuses to" I'm gonna call shenanigans on your argument. There is a crapload of bunk narrative surrounding this team, much of which conveniently lays the blame for all its woes on its QB. The corollary is the arguments that every opposing goal is Geno/Letang's fault. Find the player you want to blame and use reductive logic to get to the point you want to make.

Ben ran PA last year, he moved out of the pocket, he played as many snaps from under center as Patrick Mahomes and possibly more than Peyton Manning did in his last two years, where he was truly all of the things that people are saying now about Ben. Here was my comment on Lombardi's article:
.

Funny, The 2014-2015 Denver Broncos had an immobile QB with declining skills who played almost exclusively from the shotgun, and they had the 4th best Run game one year and won the Super Bowl with the 16th best run game. How is that possible? And after watching that QB's declining skills at the end of 2014, they brought him back for an almost embarrassing final year, only to see the team pull off a SB victory. What were they thinking???!!!

I'll tell you this: Denver was BEGGING Manning to come back. The fans were beside themselves with glee that he was returning, just after an incredibly deflating blowout postseason loss in the first round and three straight postseasons with lots of interceptions and disappointing finishes. But the fanbase PRAYED he would return. What did 2016 Manning have that 2021 Ben doesn't? What's so different about this situation in terms of how these QBs were viewed at this point of their career?

Steelers fans...love them, and hate them.

[955876]

What did 2016 Manning have that 2021 Ben doesn't? What's so different about this situation in terms of how these QBs were viewed at this point of their career?

Easy- better coaches.

While I think Ben shoulders some of the blame, I also think the combo of Ben + Jibba Jabba makes the situation far worse.

Ben in a better offensive system would be better IMO.

[stinger8]

Chris Carter had an interesting analysis of this on DK Sports today. The running backs can't gain yards when we don't let them run.That is Ben calling the plays at the line of scrimmage. Maybe Ben is the problem. Running backs don't throw 4 interceptions in the first playoff game.

Worst YPC on the league. Stacked boxes. Crappy OL play. Crappy RBs. RUN MORE!!!

Yeah, I’m sure that’ll work.

Did you ever think that Ben is making the best available decision out of a set of unpalatable choices available to him? That he hates losing and that pounding the rock with shit line and shit play all and shit RBs is a recipe for losing?

Yinz are freakin ingrates who don’t appreciate wins because they’re not pretty enough and don’t result in a SB parade every year.

I have always avoided personal insults in my responses, and will do so here as well. Ben won't go under center, and he won't run play action. My previous post showed the running game in the first 4 games when they were using Canada's flavor on the offense. The "shit line and shit play all and shit RBs" did fine then, as they did in the game Rudolph played. The stacked box happened after Baltimore realized Ben was going to dump the ball, getting it out in record time. Defensive linemen kept their hands up and batted down many balls.

Michael Lombardi wrote a great article in the Athletic today that also suggests Ben contributes to the problem. To quote, "Roethlisberger cannot run; he cannot avoid or escape. He will run only when the field looks like an empty parking lot in front of him. This raises the question: How can you run the ball with an immobile quarterback who plays exclusively from the shotgun? When the defense never has to worry about the quarterback’s movement, then the RPO game is not a factor, and all the runs are easy to predict. This spread attack makes the offense soft, becoming more finesse. Offensive linemen never can come off the ball to gain control of the line of scrimmage, and they end up taking a beating, with constant punching in pass protection. There is a place for the spread — but not on every single down, which is what Roethlisberger prefers."

We can agree to disagree. No one wants the Steelers to win more than me. But we aren't winning this year with or without Ben. Keeping him just delays the future by one year. Enjoy the ugly wins this year.

Good concise salient post. Just remember about 40% of the posters here will never ever hold #7 accountable for his intransigence/limitations, always somebody/something else at fault. A decade of disappointing results yet always something else.

[El Kabong]

Riiiiiiiiiight..........

If the Steelers make the playoffs this year, you are going to get a post full of laughing emojis.

...and then one week later, when we lose to some piece of shit nobody and Ben turns it over 4 more times, what kind of post will I get?

Don't move the goalposts. You said the Steelers will finish third in the division next year and miss the playoffs and you are so sure of your position you laugh at those who suggest the Steelers might be better.

[El Kabong]

Riiiiiiiiiight..........

If the Steelers make the playoffs this year, you are going to get a post full of laughing emojis.

Isn't the major fear (not endorsing what follows) that the team is just not good enough to win the Super Bowl and will possibly be good, not great, make the playoffs, get bounced first round (there is now ample reason to think this will happen), and end up with a low, shitty pic and no shot at moving up for a QB worth anything with Ben riding off into retirement?

I'd like to say anything can happen in the playoffs, but we're going to need some stud oline and RB acquisitions to make this work.

Also, the team keeps sending smoke signals they like Mason (they're not going to come out publicly and say he sucks, obviously). Is the plan to overpay Mason in FA 2022 and see what he's got as starter for a season since we are going to win too many games with Ben back to have any shot at a QB the following draft?

I am taking it one year at a time and I want them to go as far as they can this year even if it's another first round playoff loss. They should be able to rebuild the team from where ever they will be drafting after that.

[El Kabong]

Aditi Kinkhabwala
@AKinkhabwala
Ben Roethlisberger will indeed be back as the #Steelers starting QB this fall. Just connected w/ the two-time Super Bowl winner’s agent, Ryan Tollner, who said this:

Ryan Tollner: They want Ben back and will contact me soon to address his cap situation. As we've shared since the season ended, we are happy to creatively adjust his contract to help them build the best team possible. A year ago, Ben wasn't sure if he could throw again, but he battled back to get 12 wins and the 8th division title of his career. They lost steam down the stretch and that doesn't sit well with for him, so the fire burns strong and theres plenty of gas left in the tank.


Love it! Lets fucking Go!!

YES! I am as pleased as can be for many, many reasons. I'm ready! As B2B's avatar says, slightly changed, I don't care, #herewego!!!

Seriously, the man is a winner, Yes, it's been a decade since we won a championship game. Realize the odds are somewhat stacked. But! If we can recreate a decent run game (OL and backfield), and keep the D strong (again, these are not easy to do, but we CAN do them!), Ben can be successful. He may not be able to carry us completely the way he could do many times over the course of his career, but he can be an integral piece.

I know some on here will deride and scoff. I know I'm also the person who is more optimistic about the Buccos in the near future than any of our other 2 teams right now. I know. But man, just look at the way the TEAM played in the first half or so of last season. The run game wasn't spectacular but it was definitely solid, which is all you probably need. The D was aggressive and often dominant, but then key injuries piled up and we weren't able to sustain that level of play. Ben can't win under those conditions. He might win enough to get us limping to a playoff spot, but he needs that complement to win, and he can do it. He has the savvy, he has the experience, he has the desire. The question is can his 39 year old body hold up? It will be a question we can only answer by playing the games, but I am also going to be a contrarian here and say it's also possible his arm strength will be even better with time removed from the surgery. We'll see, but I'm definitely looking forward to seeing!

Yes, I'm on board with it may be time for Coach Tomlin (God bless you coach, hope you feel better soon!) to move on to other pastures, but with a lot of new coaches on the team, and a hungry Ben at the helm, let's see if Coach T can find some of what he found in 2019 with nobodies at QB and get us rolling! What he found in the early part of 2010 to keep us going with Ben out for 4 games and got us to the dance.

This buys us more time to see what we will have at the QB position. See if Haskins can turn it around. See if someone else out there we could draft or trade for could help us in the future. I'm good with it and meanwhile we are in the process of building up the team around that position with some cap relief and a sure veteran QB to take us to 2021! Let's Go, Ben!!! Let's GO, Steelers!!! Let's GO! I'm ready for kickoff right now!

Hey hey hey hey hey, we can't have that kind of unbridled optimism around here. Don't you know that Art and Tomlin are morons and Ben is finished and we're never going to win anything until Art dies?

[bradshaw2ben]

Worst YPC on the league. Stacked boxes. Crappy OL play. Crappy RBs. RUN MORE!!!

Yeah, I’m sure that’ll work.

Did you ever think that Ben is making the best available decision out of a set of unpalatable choices available to him? That he hates losing and that pounding the rock with shit line and shit play all and shit RBs is a recipe for losing?

Yinz are freakin ingrates who don’t appreciate wins because they’re not pretty enough and don’t result in a SB parade every year.

I have always avoided personal insults in my responses, and will do so here as well. Ben won't go under center, and he won't run play action. My previous post showed the running game in the first 4 games when they were using Canada's flavor on the offense. The "shit line and shit play all and shit RBs" did fine then, as they did in the game Rudolph played. The stacked box happened after Baltimore realized Ben was going to dump the ball, getting it out in record time. Defensive linemen kept their hands up and batted down many balls.

Michael Lombardi wrote a great article in the Athletic today that also suggests Ben contributes to the problem. To quote, "Roethlisberger cannot run; he cannot avoid or escape. He will run only when the field looks like an empty parking lot in front of him. This raises the question: How can you run the ball with an immobile quarterback who plays exclusively from the shotgun? When the defense never has to worry about the quarterback’s movement, then the RPO game is not a factor, and all the runs are easy to predict. This spread attack makes the offense soft, becoming more finesse. Offensive linemen never can come off the ball to gain control of the line of scrimmage, and they end up taking a beating, with constant punching in pass protection. There is a place for the spread — but not on every single down, which is what Roethlisberger prefers."

We can agree to disagree. No one wants the Steelers to win more than me. But we aren't winning this year with or without Ben. Keeping him just delays the future by one year. Enjoy the ugly wins this year.

Good concise salient post. Just remember about 40% of the posters here will never ever hold #7 accountable for his intransigence/limitations, always somebody/something else at fault. A decade of disappointing results yet always something else.

And another contingent will only blame Ben or only blame Tomlin.

[franco>madden]

And another contingent will only blame Ben or only blame Tomlin.

Bolded is where I'm at. Ben hasn't always been old, but MT has (nearly) always underachieved with the teams he's had after the win in SB 43.

We're going nowhere next year without Ben, but we're never going anywhere again with Mikey at the helm. Just the way it is.

[Jobu]

And another contingent will only blame Ben or only blame Tomlin.

Bolded is where I'm at. Ben hasn't always been old, but MT has (nearly) always underachieved with the teams he's had after the win in SB 43.

We're going nowhere next year without Ben, but we're never going anywhere again with Mikey at the helm. Just the way it is.

Just the way it is!

[K_C_]

If the Steelers make the playoffs this year, you are going to get a post full of laughing emojis.

...and then one week later, when we lose to some piece of shit nobody and Ben turns it over 4 more times, what kind of post will I get?

Don't move the goalposts. You said the Steelers will finish third in the division next year and miss the playoffs and you are so sure of your position you laugh at those who suggest the Steelers might be better.

Dude how am I supposed to respond to your ridiculousness that the Steelers will make the playoffs this upcoming season?

They won’t.

I just half-joked that Ben would turn it over a bunch.

But you know and I know that it ain’t happening.

......as in a playoff run isn’t happening.

[bradshaw2ben]

And another contingent will only blame Ben or only blame Tomlin.

Bolded is where I'm at. Ben hasn't always been old, but MT has (nearly) always underachieved with the teams he's had after the win in SB 43.

We're going nowhere next year without Ben, but we're never going anywhere again with Mikey at the helm. Just the way it is.

Well, one thing I’ll say about this is: we said the same thing about Cowher... how hell never win because his sphincter tightens in January and he becomes Marty Schottenheimer. Cowher actually completely deviated from his years of coaching personality during the 2005 run. Maybe there’s a chance?

[blu]

And another contingent will only blame Ben or only blame Tomlin.

Bolded is where I'm at. Ben hasn't always been old, but MT has (nearly) always underachieved with the teams he's had after the win in SB 43.

We're going nowhere next year without Ben, but we're never going anywhere again with Mikey at the helm. Just the way it is.

Well, one thing I’ll say about this is: we said the same thing about Cowher... how hell never win because his sphincter tightens in January and he becomes Marty Schottenheimer. Cowher actually completely deviated from his years of coaching personality during the 2005 run. Maybe there’s a chance?

But can Tomlin deviate from his years of coaching personality?

[SteelerDayTrader]

Im amazed many of you brickheads think any of this is on Ben. At one point last year he was an MVP candidate calling plays at the line and crushing everybody.

1) Our OL sucks. However Dotson Banner and good C conversion project later in the draft and we MIGHT have something to work with.

2) Our RBs suck. Might be the worst RB unit in the NFL. The best RB weve had in a while was Kerrith Whyte and the dumbfuck coaches and FO cut him.

No QB is gonna look great with this ^^^^ bullshit
But thats FAR from our only problem.

3) Weve got a good number of guys on defense who really lack heart. You just dont get a sense they care a whole lot when it matters or that they will do whatever takes when its their turn to stick their face in the fan. Tuitt Watt etc got erased by 3rd stringers in the playoffs. That means you suck as a teammate.

4) Our coaches suck. Butler doesnt inspire much on defense and his coaching/scheme is horrible when it matters. Unfortunately Rooney probably feels he owes him so he is going nowhere for a while.

Offensively when Snell JuJu Ebron DJ etc get more snaps than Claypool you dont just have a problem you have your head up your ass willingly

Tomlin Colbert and Rooney have all played horrible roles as well.

All of that said.....

Draft a good Center conversion project......a ground pounding RB suited for the Steelers 1960s approach.....a TE who is willing to learn to block that can catch a few.....another 1 or 2 good picks...

And play like champs......we might have something

[jeemie]

@jewelsongs Of course—and I know you’re not only a Steelers fan... you’re a great Steelers fan.

Just don’t fall for all the hot garbage takes that are out there to get you riled up and clicking on ads. The Steelers will probably be about the same next year as they were last year, and with a little injury luck and maybe a coaching decision or two they might have a shot. Don’t rush into the future because 99% chance it’s grim for a while after Ben.

I don’t believe they have a shot...not unless Tomlin has an epiphany that he wants to go minister to youths in the inner city and quits.

So I want to “rush into the future”, knowing it’ll be grim for awhile, because that’s the quickest path back to championship football.

If you believe we have a shot next year with Mike Tomlin as the coach still, you are just setting yourself up to be teased once again.

I for one am tired of that.

[bradshaw2ben]

@jewelsongs Of course—and I know you’re not only a Steelers fan... you’re a great Steelers fan.

Just don’t fall for all the hot garbage takes that are out there to get you riled up and clicking on ads. The Steelers will probably be about the same next year as they were last year, and with a little injury luck and maybe a coaching decision or two they might have a shot. Don’t rush into the future because 99% chance it’s grim for a while after Ben.

I don’t believe they have a shot...not unless Tomlin has an epiphany that he wants to go minister to youths in the inner city and quits.

So I want to “rush into the future”, knowing it’ll be grim for awhile, because that’s the quickest path back to championship football.

If you believe we have a shot next year with Mike Tomlin as the coach still, you are just setting yourself up to be teased once again.

I for one am tired of that.

Well, I think there are three positive outcomes that have a decent chance of happening next year:
1. Ben plays great and shuts half the fanbase the F* up
2. Ben get his accolades and love from fans in the house if it is the end for him
3. Steelers fail again because of the coach's decisions and the team moves on or he realizes he's stuck/done and "retires"

[jeemie]

1. and 2. are nice, but reeks of sentimentality.

Just my opinion...I admit I am a dick about stuff like that.

Not paying Ben just so he has a chance to say goodbye in front of the fan base.

If I’m paying Ben, I want the whole team and coaching staff going all in to win it...and that means the head coach critically examining his own style of coaching and addressing the glaring flaws.

Otherwise, we can have a retirement party day for him.