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Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:50 pm
by Baltostiller
Sweet baby Jesus why didn't the Broncos offer that deal for Tomlin. I'd have been running to the podium...
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:55 pm
by fractalsteel
Baltostiller wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:50 pm
Sweet baby Jesus why didn't the Broncos offer that deal for Tomlin. I'd have been running to the podium...
Maybe they did and EMR hung up on them.
Denver is desperate.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:01 pm
by Stosh-67
Baltostiller wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:50 pm
Sweet baby Jesus why didn't the Broncos offer that deal for Tomlin. I'd have been running to the podium...
I would certainly take a 1st and a 2nd for Tomlin.
I would even let Canada run the team if it meant getting rid of Tomlin
.......knowing Canada would be relieved of his duties, 4 or 5 disastrous weeks into the season
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:06 pm
by COR-TEN
Denver sends its 2023 first-round pick from San Francisco (No. 30 overall) and a 2024 second-round pick to New Orleans for Payton and its 2024 third-round pick, according to Adam Schefter.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:16 pm
by Ice
We couldn't have at least shot them an email re: Tomlin's lack of losing seasons?
Doncs had to do something. Overspent so hard on Wilson that they were forced to overspend on Payton.
Also, the Steelers should definitely fire/force out Tomlin with a year or two left on the contract, just to see.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:17 pm
by Pabst
fractalsteel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:55 pm
Denver is desperate.
There's an understatement.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:19 pm
by Deebo
Denver is in serious trouble over the next few years with all the draft capital blown
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:31 pm
by DP39
Ice wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:16 pm
We couldn't have at least shot them an email re: Tomlin's lack of losing seasons?
Doncs had to do something. Overspent so hard on Wilson that they were forced to overspend on Payton.
Also, the Steelers should definitely fire/force out Tomlin with a year or two left on the contract, just to see.
Yep. I'm sure all of that Walmart money could've easily made it happen, too.
Sadly, my 50+ year Steeler fandom is still currently married (9 years past that 'seven-year itch' stage for me) to a dysfunctional owner & coach combo.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:36 pm
by Jizz Mop
Deebo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:19 pm
Denver is in serious trouble over the next few years with all the draft capital blown
Wilson trade was incredibly bad and set their organization back
And now this?
Have fun Broncos fans
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:56 pm
by Stosh-67
Ice wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:16 pm
We couldn't have at least shot them an email re: Tomlin's lack of losing seasons?
Doncs had to do something. Overspent so hard on Wilson that they were forced to overspend on Payton.
Also, the Steelers should definitely fire/force out Tomlin with a year or two left on the contract, just to see.
16 years as head coach.
A playoff win in only 4 of those 16 years.
Six one and done playoff seasons.
No playoff wins since 2016 - six years.
Three playoff wins* in the last 12 years. One handed to us on a platter. ( Matt Moore, Alex Smith & AJ McGarron)
Lost the last four playoff games giving up 36, 45, 48 & 42 points.
Last 4 playoff games saw an average halftime deficit of 25-10.
The portfolio says we should not get, but a 4th or 5th round pick for Tomlin.
A compensatory ick, if you will.
This is the one case where we would benefit from todays media incompetence ..........
And wish for a 1st and a 2nd in return
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:56 pm
by franco32
Sean Payton is an excellent coach....make no mistake about it. If not for getting fcked by the refs against the Rams, I think he has 2 SBs easily now.
That said...not sure how he's going to resurrect Wilson. He looked done.
Btw...if Denver had offered me a 4th and a 5th for Tomlin, I'd have driven him cross country to Colorado myself.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:12 pm
by Jizz Mop
franco32 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:56 pm
Sean Payton is an excellent coach....make no mistake about it. If not for getting fcked by the refs against the Rams, I think he has 2 SBs easily now.
That said...not sure how he's going to resurrect Wilson. He looked done.
Btw...if Denver had offered me a 4th and a 5th for Tomlin, I'd have driven him cross country to Colorado myself.
I’m fine w a bag of Cape Cod kettle chips
Deal
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:25 pm
by Pabst
franco32 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:56 pm
If not for getting fcked by the refs against the Rams, I think he has 2 SBs easily now.
So we're just giving him a free pass for allowing Jared Goff to drive down the field in under a minute to tie the game?
Did we forget that the Saints got the ball first in OT of that game?
Not directed at you specifically, but this is my biggest gripe with this board. All the criticisms (rightly!) leveled at Tomlin can equally be applied to Sean Payton, yet here we are ball washing the guy.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:29 pm
by jeemie
I guess Payton has it made in the shade either way.
If he resurrects that mess of a team, he will be looked at as a genius.
If they stay as fucked as they are likely to…he can blame it on the Wilson fiasco.
All while collecting some serious bank.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:08 pm
by Steelperch
Broncos traded 3 players, 3 first round picks, and 3 second round picks for a declining QB who will be 35 this year and a coach. All of that to be in a division buried behind Mahomes and Herbert. What a nightmare. Broncos fans would take NHALS any day.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:44 pm
by franco32
I'm not saying the Payton trade was a good one. He's a good coach but not worth all that draft capital. We on the other hand are stuck with a coach in the dark ages. All you had to do was watch Championship weekend to see the difference in coaching.
Since Jan of 2011, more than 12 years ago, our only playoff wins were against Matt Moore, a TD-less game vs Alex Smith, and the Burfict penalty gift game. That's it. Our last 3 playoff appearances, we have given up an AVERAGE of 45 points.
There is simply no argument that Tomlin has been nothing more than a mediocre regular season coach for well over a decade now (with HIS players and HIS assistant coaches).
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:06 pm
by Pabst
franco32 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:44 pm
I'm not saying the Payton trade was a good one. He's a good coach but not worth all that draft capital. We on the other hand are stuck with a coach in the dark ages. All you had to do was watch Championship weekend to see the difference in coaching.
Since Jan of 2011, more than 12 years ago, our only playoff wins were against Matt Moore, a TD-less game vs Alex Smith, and the Burfict penalty gift game. That's it. Our last 3 playoff appearances, we have given up an AVERAGE of 45 points.
There is simply no argument that Tomlin has been nothing more than a mediocre regular season coach for well over a decade now (with HIS players and HIS assistant coaches).
Payton has exactly 1 more playoff win in his career than Tomlin. They've appeared in the same number of conference title games, and he's appeared in one less Super Bowl.
Sean Payton has 4 wins in that same span. Those came against Cam Newton, Nick Foles (twice), and Mitch Trubisky.
Is that one additional playoff win over a 12 year span seriously the difference between a good coach and a mediocre one?
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:20 pm
by Mick
Pabst wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:06 pm
franco32 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:44 pm
I'm not saying the Payton trade was a good one. He's a good coach but not worth all that draft capital. We on the other hand are stuck with a coach in the dark ages. All you had to do was watch Championship weekend to see the difference in coaching.
Since Jan of 2011, more than 12 years ago, our only playoff wins were against Matt Moore, a TD-less game vs Alex Smith, and the Burfict penalty gift game. That's it. Our last 3 playoff appearances, we have given up an AVERAGE of 45 points.
There is simply no argument that Tomlin has been nothing more than a mediocre regular season coach for well over a decade now (with HIS players and HIS assistant coaches).
Payton has exactly 1 more playoff win in his career than Tomlin. They've appeared in the same number of conference title games, and he's appeared in one less Super Bowl.
Sean Payton has 4 wins in that same span. Those came against Cam Newton, Nick Foles (twice), and Mitch Trubisky.
Is that one additional playoff win over a 12 year span seriously the difference between a good coach and a mediocre one?
well, almost every coach with 9 career playoff wins is in the hall, where it’s much less common for coaches with 8 or less. So yes, clearly the 9th win is the one that matters.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:49 pm
by SteelerDayTrader
4 biggest problems for the Broncos
John Elway
The Walton - Penner Family Group (Greg Penner)
Damani Leech
George Paton
Zero NFL front office cred in that group
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:18 pm
by Ice
DP39 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:31 pm
Ice wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:16 pm
We couldn't have at least shot them an email re: Tomlin's lack of losing seasons?
Doncs had to do something. Overspent so hard on Wilson that they were forced to overspend on Payton.
Also, the Steelers should definitely fire/force out Tomlin with a year or two left on the contract, just to see.
Yep. I'm sure all of that Walmart money could've easily made it happen, too.
Sadly, my 50+ year Steeler fandom is still currently married (9 years past that 'seven-year itch' stage for me) to a dysfunctional owner & coach combo.
Yup. Sadly, I'm thoroughly convinced it's going to take a new Rooney.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:38 pm
by Havoc
Payton built something out of nothing. Gave NO a legit football history, turned a historical laughingstock into something their fanbase could be proud of. Big difference for guys who built something out of nothing compared to guys who didn't
Compare the 2 resumes on the offensive side of the football. Not in the same football universe.
Payton is an ex QB who paid his coaching dues working every coaching job on offense except OL coach (& TE coach) over a 17 year span before becoming HC.
Payton won a SB with a defense 20th in points.
Payton often called the plays for the Saints offense.
Saints offense points ranks with Payton at HC:
1st (2 times)
2nd (2 times)
3rd (3 times)
4th (1 time)
5th (2 times)
Again, Payton won a SB with a defense 20th in points. ZERO chance of anything close to this EVER happening with Mediocre Mike Teflon Tomlin at HC who is among the worst offensive minds in the league.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:24 pm
by Mick
Tomlin won a SB with an offense that was 20th in points. Could Payton do that? Is the argument “this offensive minded coach is better at offense than that defensive minded coach”?
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:18 pm
by Pickett's Platoon
Jizz Mop wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:12 pm
franco32 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:56 pm
Sean Payton is an excellent coach....make no mistake about it. If not for getting fcked by the refs against the Rams, I think he has 2 SBs easily now.
That said...not sure how he's going to resurrect Wilson. He looked done.
Btw...if Denver had offered me a 4th and a 5th for Tomlin, I'd have driven him cross country to Colorado myself.
I’m fine w a bag of Cape Cod kettle chips
Deal
I'd give up a first and a second just to get rid of him. We'd still come out ahead.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:18 pm
by Havoc
Mick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:24 pm
Tomlin won a SB with an offense that was 20th in points. Could Payton do that? Is the argument “this offensive minded coach is better at offense than that defensive minded coach”?
An offensive guru QB friendly HC is a better fit for today's league. Open minded defensive HCs are the exception not the rule.
2008 was Lebeau's defense that Lebeau masterminded. That machine was firmly entrenched and had been for years. Tomlin was the greenhorn HC. Contrast that with Payton who masterminded an offensive juggernaut
out of nothing AND called the plays.
I don't know if Tomlin could put a historical laughingstock on the football map. He certainly could not do it with offense leading the way like Payton which added to their coverage (record breaking offense) and was probably more enjoyable for more fans than watching the team win games by a score of 11-10.
The league has changed multiple times since Tomlin got his ring in 2008. It's a MUCH DIFFERENT league now and Tomlin is a poor post season fit and his resume bears that out.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:15 pm
by Gonzo
Broncos seem intent on completely ruining that franchise. Maybe they can find a way soon to trade away their top picks for the next 5 years and roll with russel and Sean
And yes, about Tomlin above
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:20 pm
by El Kabong
Payton only won one super bowl with a franchise QB.
Yes, Payton is a better offensive mind than Tomlin. Payton is an offensive coach. Tomlin is a defensive coach. This is like saying Bill Walsh was a better offensive mind than Bill Parcells. Well, duh. I wouldn't expect the Steelers ever would be as good offensively as the teams led by offensive-minded HC's with Tomlin as their HC, just like Parcells's Giants never had a better offense than Walsh's 49ers. Tomlin is trying to win with defense, not offense.
Now if the argument is that it's better in this day and age to have an offensive minded HC, then that is something to be talked about. I know people for years have wanted Tomlin fired in favor of an offensive-minded HC.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:51 pm
by Havoc
El Kabong wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:20 pm
Payton only won one super bowl with a franchise QB.
Yes, Payton is a better offensive mind than Tomlin. Payton is an offensive coach. Tomlin is a defensive coach. This is like saying Bill Walsh was a better offensive mind than Bill Parcells. Well, duh. I wouldn't expect the Steelers ever would be as good offensively as the teams led by offensive-minded HC's with Tomlin as their HC, just like Parcells's Giants never had a better offense than Walsh's 49ers. Tomlin is trying to win with defense, not offense.
Now if the argument is that it's better in this day and age to have an offensive minded HC, then that is something to be talked about. I know people for years have wanted Tomlin fired in favor of an offensive-minded HC.
Payton had 17 years to master his craft as a coach (before becoming a HC). That is a TON of football experience missing on Tomlin's resume.
Payton's resume on offense is FAR superior to Tomlin's resume on defense.
Payton turned a laughingstock into a powerhouse. Where is that on Tomlin's resume? At any level?
Hiring Parcells over Walsh in 2023 to be your HC would be STUPID.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:58 pm
by Kodiak.
Yes, Payton built a team and won a SB.
Tomlin inherited a SB champion and rode along for another. Tomlin's "team" and era really kind of begins in 2010 with the infamous "easing in" approach, and pretty much all downhill from there.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:54 pm
by Pickett's Platoon
Havoc wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:18 pm
Mick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:24 pm
Tomlin won a SB with an offense that was 20th in points. Could Payton do that? Is the argument “this offensive minded coach is better at offense than that defensive minded coach”?
The league has changed multiple times since Tomlin got his ring in 2008. It's a MUCH DIFFERENT league now and Tomlin is a poor post season fit and his resume bears that out.
That was Cowher's ring won with Cowher's players coached by Lebeau and Arians.
Rooney didn't allow Tomlin to coach then. He was brought on to shuck and jive during press conferences to drive merch sales to Suzie soccer mom and her subservient husband.
Re: Broncos trade for Payton
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:32 pm
by Deebo
El Kabong wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:20 pm
Payton only won one super bowl with a franchise QB.
Uh and so did Tomlin. Not sure that helps your argument