SteelerFury Combined Forum

Hey Resident Steeler Fans. I have been fairly outward about my support of Kenny, even through his struggles, and theres actually a good reason.

What many NFL teams (not usually named the Steelers) go through is a pattern of QB misery. Here's how it goes.

Phase 1: Team sucks and drafts a QB in a high round. Hope springs eternal among the fan base. This QB will be the one that saves the franchise. He has the tools, its finally their time.

Phase 2. Rookie QB may or may not play his first year, but more often than not he ends up coming in. Unless he is running type QB he struggles. He has good games and bad games. Great throws and terrible throws. Season 1 ends poorly however the fan base is excited about the future with their new QB.

Phase 3. Season 2 starts. The QB often slumps. Here's why... The team is bad. The coaching is bad. None of that has changed. However now the second year QB has a name and some tape in the NFL, he has higher expectations on him, less room for error. Teams are ready. Playing QB in the NFL is HARD. Even the best pocket passers need a lot of time to develop. To learn to read a defense pre snap. To learn to read the defense during a drop back. Getting footwork down, developing timing with you receivers, adjusting to the speed of NFL defensive backs. Adjusting to the speed of NFL defensive lineman. Young QBs have a head full of information and have to learn to both use that information, and turn it off. So the QB struggles, the fan base gets impatient. They want to win now. Cracks begin to show in the support foundation of their QB.

Phase 4. The 'move on' phase. The team needs a change at QB. Our guy wasnt the guy. after all We still arent winning and heads need to roll. Changes need to be made. The blame game starts with the QB. He either gets hurt or gets benched. The team continues to suck. Time to look towards the future.

Phase 5. Team sucks and drafts a QB in a high round. Hope springs eternal among the fan base. This QB will be the one that saves the franchise. He has the tools, its finally their time.


So back to my first thought regarding my support for Kenny. I dont know if he's the guy or not. Here's what I do know - that it takes a long time for a pocket passer to develop in the NFL. A Long time. Most QBs never get enough time to develop. Thats the truth. Its a win now league.

There are some traits that cant be taught though. Stepping up under pressure, making the big throw when the team needs it most, the swagger, the "IT" factor. I saw that in Kenny last year. Does it mean he will be a star? no. But it means given enough time to develop and learn he could be a winner in the league. There's a catch though. A pocket QB's success is dependent on their coordinators. The wrong scheme, the wrong fit can ruin it before it even gets a chance to start. A young QB standing on the field after yet another 3 and out, the fans booing, the team losing, that has an effect. Some bounce back, some dont.

All I wanted with KP was a chance for him to play in an offensive scheme that was built to enable his success. Behind a good o-line. I did not want to begin the cycle that I have seen so many other teams go through, because that cycle sucks.

Today we saw a rookie QB on the other side. He came out with a game plan and an offensive scheme designed to build him up. Play after play his confidence grew, the running game was there. The play calls were there. It started simple but effective. As the game progressed we witnessed Stroud's confidence grow and witnessed him attempting and making harder throws.

This is called having your mojo. We all know how that feels. It builds exponentially. Thats the #1 job of the Offensive Coordinator. Get your young QB into his Mojo zone. Momentum and Rhythm.

We dont have that. We have an idiot calling plays and an idiot overseeing him. We have people with pitchforks screaming for Kenny to be benched.

All I wanted was for Kenny to get the chance to show us if he could take that next step. Instead we have a kid whose confidence is shot, who was playing scared and running for his life because he doesnt trust his line or his offensive coach. But of course he would never say that.

Look no further than the second and third play of the game for the Steelers offense. These are the scripted, rehearsed plays, under the complete control of the coaching staff and presumably designed to get your young QB into his Mojo zone.

Here's how it went:

Second and long was designed as a bootleg/scramble right with a quick throw underneath to the TE. Nobody was fooled, the coverage was a blanket. Incomplete pass, no chance..

Third and long was designed throw from the pocket (5 step drop maybe?) There was nobody opened (presumably we were told) and the line collapsed quickly. Kenny scrambled left, continued to look downfield as long as he could but eventually he had to tuck and run. And run he did. He lowered his shoulder and took a huge hit, helmet flew off, but he got the first down.

Thats not the kind of play you want your QB making on the first drive of the game. After that was the ill fated interception to Austin. It was under-thrown but I will continue to defend that it was not a terrible ball. Austin was covered and the CB made a better football play on the ball then our receiver.

Kenny sunk lower and lower as the offense played poorer and poorer. A few bad penalty calls went against us. A key third and long pickup to Pickens was called back by the offensive pass interference call on Muth(?)

And then of course the ill fated 4th and 1, shotgun formation....

Remember that part about building up your QB's Mojo? Well here's a textbook case of how not to do it. Put him in a throw only formation on 4th and 1 at a critical point in the game, and at a critical place in the field. Take away the threat of the run so you are leaving him with one option. And as if thats not bad enough, the play design looks to be a primary target intermediate route , 25 or so yards downfield. So you have your frazzled young QB having to step up into a shaky pocket and throw a strike 30 yards downfield. Which, by the way, would have been the longest completion of the day. Call me crazy, but that just doesn't seem like the play you call for that QB in that situation. I might go so far as to say Canada Wants to be fired....

So I think today was an excellent opportunity to see two sides of the coin. Two young QB's in the same big game. One excelled and one collapsed. I'd argue that the outcome of this QB duel was determined well before they even stepped on the field... But that's the NFL isnt it..

Anyway. Ramble over.

He’s not the guy. Period.

What many NFL teams (not usually named the Steelers) go through is a pattern of QB misery.

You lost me at this point. You remember Ben where we lucked into him playing as a result of the Maddox injury. Obviously, you don't remember, Bubby Brister, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, Kordell, Jim Miller and a host of others who were mediocre QBs at best.

Anybody that wasn't Ben was going to be hated by a certain crew here.

Weird to see a Steelers player actively rooted against, but that's fans for you.

Pickett might not be the guy but he's nowhere near the biggest problem in Steelerland.

Matt Canada is.

Even more so, Mike Tomlin is.

I won't go over the defenses issues now, but they have many.

On offense, the square peg/round hole approach to offensive philosophy won't allow any QB to excel.

The offensive line is playing brutally bad, but I'm beginning to wonder if that's because they simply don't buy in to what Matt Canada want to do.

Same thing with Kenny Pickett really. He doesn't trust his o-line and he doesn't trust the philosophy.

The Steelers run too many 7 or 8 yard plays. They run too often on 2nd down. The offense is stale. Boring to watch.

Imagine what these guys feel like lining up when you know the defense absolutely knows what's coming.

I'm not even really mad at the players. None of them on offense.

I feel bad for them.

14Thumb wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:28 pm

What many NFL teams (not usually named the Steelers) go through is a pattern of QB misery.

You lost me at this point. You remember Ben where we lucked into him playing as a result of the Maddox injury. Obviously, you don't remember, Bubby Brister, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, Kordell, Jim Miller and a host of others who were mediocre QBs at best.

Coaching matters.

Unlike Teflon Mike, Cowher surrounded himself with very good schematic coaches and allowed them to….coach.

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:30 pm

Anybody that wasn't Ben was going to be hated by a certain crew here.

Weird to see a Steelers player actively rooted against, but that's fans for you.

Pickett might not be the guy but he's nowhere near the biggest problem in Steelerland.

Matt Canada is.

Even more so, Mike Tomlin is.

I won't go over the defenses issues now, but they have many.

On offense, the square peg/round hole approach to offensive philosophy won't allow any QB to excel.

The offensive line is playing brutally bad, but I'm beginning to wonder if that's because they simply don't buy in to what Matt Canada want to do.

Same thing with Kenny Pickett really. He doesn't trust his o-line and he doesn't trust the philosophy.

The Steelers run too many 7 or 8 yard plays. They run too often on 2nd down. The offense is stale. Boring to watch.

Imagine what these guys feel like lining up when you know the defense absolutely knows what's coming.

I'm not even really mad at the players. None of them on offense.

I feel bad for them.

Hey one trick…. Is it possible people don’t like Pickett because he’s sucked in college and has don’t nothing in the NFL? Just possibly possible? But hey, you’re the guy calling for Mason Rudolph over Ben so maybe QB evaluation just isn’t your thing.

Don’t forget in the game thread I was cheering Kenny’s injury. Probably a bit harsh but honestly is for the best. He needs to sit and study and not take hit after hit behind Broderick Jones and Semooaloo or whatever the fuck that guy calls himself.

The Kenny honeymoon is over. If you are going to really suck balls then for fucks sake stop parading around this idiot golden boy QB like you have the position figured out. We sure as hell don’t. Don’t be afraid to walk away from a first round bust. He’s reached that territory.

Steelperch wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:33 pm

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:30 pm

Anybody that wasn't Ben was going to be hated by a certain crew here.

Weird to see a Steelers player actively rooted against, but that's fans for you.

Pickett might not be the guy but he's nowhere near the biggest problem in Steelerland.

Matt Canada is.

Even more so, Mike Tomlin is.

I won't go over the defenses issues now, but they have many.

On offense, the square peg/round hole approach to offensive philosophy won't allow any QB to excel.

The offensive line is playing brutally bad, but I'm beginning to wonder if that's because they simply don't buy in to what Matt Canada want to do.

Same thing with Kenny Pickett really. He doesn't trust his o-line and he doesn't trust the philosophy.

The Steelers run too many 7 or 8 yard plays. They run too often on 2nd down. The offense is stale. Boring to watch.

Imagine what these guys feel like lining up when you know the defense absolutely knows what's coming.

I'm not even really mad at the players. None of them on offense.

I feel bad for them.

Hey one trick…. Is it possible people don’t like Pickett because he’s sucked in college and has don’t nothing in the NFL? Just possibly possible? But hey, you’re the guy calling for Mason Rudolph over Ben so maybe QB evaluation just isn’t your thing.

Nobody wanted Rudolph over Ben.

Ben was pretty shitty as his career came to an end and I hoped Rudolph would get a shot once Ben hung em up (the Steelers literally tried to push Ben to retire, but he didn't) but that didn't happen.

I root for the guy under center and hammering him constantly on a message board, like you're some kind of pretend NFL flesh picker is just bizarre.

But you got your wish and Pickett has been sidelined.

I expect offensive fireworks going forward!!

Orangesteel wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:36 pm

Don’t forget in the game thread I was cheering Kenny’s injury. Probably a bit harsh but honestly is for the best. He needs to sit and study and not take hit after hit behind Broderick Jones and Semooaloo or whatever the fuck that guy calls himself.

The Kenny honeymoon is over. If you are going to really suck balls then for fucks sake stop parading around this idiot golden boy QB like you have the position figured out. We sure as hell don’t. Don’t be afraid to walk away from a first round bust. He’s reached that territory.

Yes.

Pickett's injury was for the best.

14Thumb wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:28 pm

What many NFL teams (not usually named the Steelers) go through is a pattern of QB misery.

You lost me at this point. You remember Ben where we lucked into him playing as a result of the Maddox injury. Obviously, you don't remember, Bubby Brister, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, Kordell, Jim Miller and a host of others who were mediocre QBs at best.

Of course i remember that but it was a long time ago. (And it sucked by the way). We had close to 2 decades of Solid QB play.

And if you stopped reading because of that then its a tough audience...

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:30 pm

Anybody that wasn't Ben was going to be hated by a certain crew here.

That, and QBs that, you know, kind of suck.

Kodiak. wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:41 pm

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:30 pm

Anybody that wasn't Ben was going to be hated by a certain crew here.

That, and QBs that, you know, kind of suck.

Yes. We understand. Pickett sucks.

The next guy won't suck. You'll see.

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:37 pm

Nobody wanted Rudolph over Ben.

No one with a sufficiently oxygenated brain.

But then there's you, cupcake.

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:42 pm

Kodiak. wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:41 pm

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:30 pm

Anybody that wasn't Ben was going to be hated by a certain crew here.

That, and QBs that, you know, kind of suck.

Yes. We understand. Pickett sucks.

The next guy won't suck. You'll see.

I fully acknowledge the next guy may suck. At least there's hope he won't suck as bad as the last guy.

Kodiak. wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:44 pm

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:42 pm

Kodiak. wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:41 pm

That, and QBs that, you know, kind of suck.

Yes. We understand. Pickett sucks.

The next guy won't suck. You'll see.

I fully acknowledge the next guy may suck. At least there's hope he won't suck as bad as the last guy.

Yes. Of course.

Kenny has not been good at all sorry and I want him to succeed. He just took a terrible step back imo. But it starts with the Head Coach and blame both Coordinators for the bland ass team

Kodiak. wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:43 pm

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:37 pm

Nobody wanted Rudolph over Ben.

No one with a sufficiently oxygenated brain.

But then there's you, cupcake.

Oh sweetie, you should be celebrating instead of making things up and weirdly White Knighting Ben when you don’t have to.

He won’t fuck you.

They should have not drafted a QB last year and instead built the team that had very little talent. KP is not great but he is being sacrificed behind this oline and play-calling

I dont understand how someone can definitively say Kenny sucks based on the information we have.

I can see people saying he will probably suck, if they're basing it on his college career or measurables (hand size, arm strength. etc..)

But he hasnt had a chance in the NFL to develop. Ben, future hall of famer, played horribly in the Canada offense right? We assumed it was his age and physical condition, and maybe it was... but maybe it had more to do with the scheme than we thought.

My fear is we keep rotating QBs into this putrid coaching mess and we keep getting the same result.

steelmann58 wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:46 pm

Kenny has not been good at all sorry and I want him to succeed. He just took a terrible step back imo. But it starts with the Head Coach and blame both Coordinators for the bland ass team

I so badly wish I would watch Brock Purdy run this fucking offense with Matt Canada calling and designing plays and with this supporting cast.

Some elite QB’s might succeed.

99% of them would look like shit.

Until Tomlin and Canada go, it’s going to be really bad.

jebrick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:50 pm

They should have not drafted a last year and instead built the team that had very little talent. KP is not great but he is being sacrificed behind this oline and play-calling

This is the actual truth but everybody needs a scapegoat.

Gonna be fun to watch this board if Pickett is gone for the year.

the-other-burg wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:50 pm

I dont understand how someone can definitively say Kenny sucks based on the information we have.

I can see people saying he will probably suck, if they're basing it on his college career or measurables (hand size, arm strength. etc..)

But he hasnt had a chance in the NFL to develop. Ben, future hall of famer, played horribly in the Canada offense right? We assumed it was his age and physical condition, and maybe it was... but maybe it had more to do with the scheme than we thought.

My fear is we keep rotating QBs into this putrid coaching mess and we keep getting the same result.

5 years of college film. He might be a fine backup in the league.

Orangesteel wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:23 pm

He’s not the guy. Period.

He might not be the guy, but Mike Tomlin and Matt Canada have pretty much made sure he will never be the guy now.

My fear is we keep rotating QBs into this putrid coaching mess and we keep getting the same result.

Tomlinis a delusional lunatic so yes. They do what they do etc.

Orangesteel wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:36 pm

Don’t forget in the game thread I was cheering Kenny’s injury. Probably a bit harsh but honestly is for the best.

Wow
That’s pretty damn lame

I’ve never celebrated an injury for a player I disliked on another team let alone a likable kid playing for the Steelers

Although I may have enjoyed Juju knocking out Burfict a little too much way back when but damn a player on your own team???

Steeldrama wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:54 pm

Orangesteel wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:36 pm

Don’t forget in the game thread I was cheering Kenny’s injury. Probably a bit harsh but honestly is for the best.

Wow
That’s pretty damn lame

I’ve never celebrated an injury for a player I disliked on another team let alone a likable kid playing for the Steelers

Although I may have enjoyed Juju knocking out Burfict a little too much way back when but damn a player on your own team???

Kenny’s the guy that followed Ben.

He was going to be hated. It’s weird, weird shit but nobody should be surprised.

The strange cult-like love of Ben who was wonderful to watch but was far from being above criticism was both strange and pretty hilarious.

Hoping Kenny’s knee is shredded is just that cult-like fucked up Ben love still not accepting he’s done.

JFC

Too long

Here’s some facts. Whether or not people want to believe them facts don’t change

- KP is small. He isn’t going to be able to take much abuse at all.

- KP has a weaker arm than many QBs. That forces 2 things. Very limited accuracy range AND strong arming throws which throw off good QB mechanics. Neither of those is good if you want a QB who is gonna consistently compete at the top

- KP plays scared. Most likely because he is very well aware of those first two facts. Moreso than anyone deep down

Beyond that ^^^^ here are a few other facts that aren’t gonna change

- Art 2 isn’t a bad guy. He just doesn’t really know football and he knows it deep down. Dan legitimately learned football from the bottom up AND ALSO knew his knowledge was very limited when viewed against career football coaches. He did know enough to hire solid coaches and supported them hiring OTHER good coaches as well. THATS the single largest issue with the Steelers coaching. Art 2 has discouraged hiring top guys and it shows.

- Art 2 is afraid to move on from Tomlin. Art knows he’s lost but it’s ok because Tomlin is his willing buffer

- Tomlin for his part has always been willing to accept what is on soldier on regardless. I suspect he kinda views that as a badge of honor of sorts. It’s also very apparent Tomlin likes basic football. Not impossible to win that way but you do need a superior coaching staff and a fairly deep roster of exceptional players at least in the sense they have some quality that can be honed to exploit opponents. Tomlin used to have some superior coaches. Rooney shitcanned them and we are where we are

- Believe whatever the fuck you want. I don’t care. Defense in Pittsburgh has always been WAY overvalued and often overrated. This franchise owes the huge large majority of its success to two guys. Terry Bradshaw and Ben Roethlisberger. Period. End of story. It’s also a fact much of the fanbase and the Steeler brain trust went out of their way to make their lives and careers much harder than they needed to be. 100% fact.

- Until this franchise as a whole comes to a deep and strong realization that offense needs to be valued and supported at consistently cutting edge level, particularly in 2023 and beyond they aren’t gonna win shit of any importance unless they get damn lucky AGAIN in 25 - 30 years and one of the very best football players to ever play QB falls in their ungrateful lap yet again

Steelperch wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:33 pm

K_C_ wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:30 pm

Anybody that wasn't Ben was going to be hated by a certain crew here.

Weird to see a Steelers player actively rooted against, but that's fans for you.

Pickett might not be the guy but he's nowhere near the biggest problem in Steelerland.

Matt Canada is.

Even more so, Mike Tomlin is.

I won't go over the defenses issues now, but they have many.

On offense, the square peg/round hole approach to offensive philosophy won't allow any QB to excel.

The offensive line is playing brutally bad, but I'm beginning to wonder if that's because they simply don't buy in to what Matt Canada want to do.

Same thing with Kenny Pickett really. He doesn't trust his o-line and he doesn't trust the philosophy.

The Steelers run too many 7 or 8 yard plays. They run too often on 2nd down. The offense is stale. Boring to watch.

Imagine what these guys feel like lining up when you know the defense absolutely knows what's coming.

I'm not even really mad at the players. None of them on offense.

I feel bad for them.

Hey one trick…. Is it possible people don’t like Pickett because he’s sucked in college and has don’t nothing in the NFL? Just possibly possible? But hey, you’re the guy calling for Mason Rudolph over Ben so maybe QB evaluation just isn’t your thing.

jebrick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:53 pm

the-other-burg wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:50 pm

I dont understand how someone can definitively say Kenny sucks based on the information we have.

I can see people saying he will probably suck, if they're basing it on his college career or measurables (hand size, arm strength. etc..)

But he hasnt had a chance in the NFL to develop. Ben, future hall of famer, played horribly in the Canada offense right? We assumed it was his age and physical condition, and maybe it was... but maybe it had more to do with the scheme than we thought.

My fear is we keep rotating QBs into this putrid coaching mess and we keep getting the same result.

5 years of college film. He might be a fine backup in the league.

Exactly. We have tape on the dude. He’s the same guy with the feathered hair from Pitt. He’s approaching 30.

But please people continue to keep your head in the sand about him.

Orangesteel wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 10:05 pm

jebrick wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:53 pm

the-other-burg wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:50 pm

I dont understand how someone can definitively say Kenny sucks based on the information we have.

I can see people saying he will probably suck, if they're basing it on his college career or measurables (hand size, arm strength. etc..)

But he hasnt had a chance in the NFL to develop. Ben, future hall of famer, played horribly in the Canada offense right? We assumed it was his age and physical condition, and maybe it was... but maybe it had more to do with the scheme than we thought.

My fear is we keep rotating QBs into this putrid coaching mess and we keep getting the same result.

5 years of college film. He might be a fine backup in the league.

Exactly. We have tape on the dude. He’s the same guy with the feathered hair from Pitt. He’s approaching 30.

But please people continue to keep your head in the sand about him.

And he went 7-5 as a starter last year for this shit burger of a coaching staff.