SteelerFury Combined Forum

Sad to say, but I think it'll still be "won a Super Bowl with someone else's players...all talk, no substance...player's coach"

"Never had a losing season" looks like it's going away too.

He could have changed this by winning a Super Bowl (or a few playoff games) with his own teams, but alas he did not.

TimmayLake wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:56 pm

Sad to say, but I think it'll still be "won a Super Bowl with someone else's players...all talk, no substance...player's coach"

"Never had a losing season" looks like it's going away too.

He could have changed this by winning a Super Bowl (or a few playoff games) with his own teams, but alas he did not.

Nah.

The social justice/ virtue signaling MSM will cement his legacy as “one of the greatest coaches of all time.”

To me:: won a super bowl with Bill Cower's team who had a chance to stamp his name on his own and blew it in 2010.

The rest has been a let down of epic proportions despite having an Elite QB, Elite Receivers, Elite Running backs and functional defenses for most of his career.

The Killer B years were the most frustrating.

"8 and 8 and I took the bait"

Unleashed hell on the Steelers organization.

The answer to this will be like the Rotten Tomatoes ratings for Moonlight or any other pretentious film that has no public appeal.

Media will say fresh at 98 and the public (esp. Yinzers) will say rotten at 45.

Dan Smith--BYU wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:28 pm

The answer to this will be like the Rotten Tomatoes ratings for Moonlight or any other pretentious film that has no public appeal.

Media will say fresh at 98 and the public (esp. Yinzers) will say rotten at 45.

I listened to two media propagandists today, propping Tomlin up saying, “you’re not going to find a better HC than Mike Tomlin.”

What about the three rookie HC’s, that coached circles around Jibbs this season?

Absolutely shameful.

Stillchest wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:33 pm

Dan Smith--BYU wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:28 pm

The answer to this will be like the Rotten Tomatoes ratings for Moonlight or any other pretentious film that has no public appeal.

Media will say fresh at 98 and the public (esp. Yinzers) will say rotten at 45.

I listened to two media propagandists today, propping Tomlin up saying, “you’re not going to find a better HC than Mike Tomlin.”

What about the three rookie HC’s, that coached circles around Jibbs this season?

Absolutely shameful.

Again, what I've been calling the "dumbing down of America" for years. It's sad.

The problems isn't the dumbing down of average Joes. It's that the self-identified learned and elite are so much dumber than they used to be. If Eisen can't admit it after that debacle, I don't know what to say.

Stillchest wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:33 pm

Dan Smith--BYU wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:28 pm

The answer to this will be like the Rotten Tomatoes ratings for Moonlight or any other pretentious film that has no public appeal.

Media will say fresh at 98 and the public (esp. Yinzers) will say rotten at 45.

I listened to two media propagandists today, propping Tomlin up saying, “you’re not going to find a better HC than Mike Tomlin.”

What about the three rookie HC’s, that coached circles around Jibbs this season?

Absolutely shameful.

Yea who else are you gonna get that misses the playoffs and when he does the team gives up 40 burgers?
It takes a special amount of skill to accomplish that

His legacy is that he's 13th on the all-time winning % list with a Super Bowl win and another appearance. You can make the case that it was Cowher's players and that he had Ben, but he deserves credit for winning with what he was given. Do I think he's a great coach? No. But he's probably a 90th to 95th percentile head coach of all time because the vast majority of head coaches are not good. But you will always be compared to your peer group and the NFL head coach group isn't very good historically.

StillerInCT wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:03 pm

His legacy is that he's 13th on the all-time winning % list with a Super Bowl win and another appearance. You can make the case that it was Cowher's players and that he had Ben, but he deserves credit for winning with what he was given. Do I think he's a great coach? No. But he's probably a 90th to 95th percentile head coach of all time because the vast majority of head coaches are not good. But you will always be compared to your peer group and the NFL head coach group isn't very good historically.

Here’s what is obvious, Tomlin is a dinosaur in a modern NFL. His football philosophy is antiquated and makes playing the game much more difficult on the players.
Sadly, his ego and arrogance will never allow him to reconsider his perceptions.

I don't remember so many people being so upset in the early 90s by Chuck Noll's departure, and he had many times the legacy of Tomlin. Sometimes its just time to go. This is not some fucking arranged marriage in a shithole country we can't get out of.

Stillchest wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:06 pm

TimmayLake wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:56 pm

Sad to say, but I think it'll still be "won a Super Bowl with someone else's players...all talk, no substance...player's coach"

"Never had a losing season" looks like it's going away too.

He could have changed this by winning a Super Bowl (or a few playoff games) with his own teams, but alas he did not.

Nah.

The social justice/ virtue signaling MSM will cement his legacy as “one of the greatest coaches of all time.”

This.


Otherwise the media would call him what he is,,, Barry Switzer that stuck around 10 years longer than he should have.

His bust will be outside Canton 15 feet high with a gigantic altar where we can worship.

He is magical.

He may have been called a racist (I don't agree) but Ron called Tomlin a fraud from the start.

blu wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:56 pm

He may have been called a racist (I don't agree) but Ron called Tomlin a fraud from the start.

Tomlin wasn't the only reason Ron was and is a racist.

StillerInCT wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:51 pm

blu wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:56 pm

He may have been called a racist (I don't agree) but Ron called Tomlin a fraud from the start.

Tomlin wasn't the only reason Ron was and is a racist.

Ron was still accurate in pegging Jibbs a fraud.

Stillchest wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:40 am

StillerInCT wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:51 pm

blu wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:56 pm

He may have been called a racist (I don't agree) but Ron called Tomlin a fraud from the start.

Tomlin wasn't the only reason Ron was and is a racist.

Ron was still accurate in pegging Jibbs a fraud.

He sure was. He and a few others that nailed him as a fraud from the get go.

Not me though. I liked Jibbs at first. Took me about 5 years to start seeing the light. Even then I wasn’t a full on hater. That took hold a few years ago.

Will never trust him again.

955876 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:22 am

Stillchest wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:40 am

StillerInCT wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:51 pm

Tomlin wasn't the only reason Ron was and is a racist.

Ron was still accurate in pegging Jibbs a fraud.

He sure was. He and a few others that nailed him as a fraud from the get go.

Not me though. I liked Jibbs at first. Took me about 5 years to start seeing the light. Even then I wasn’t a full on hater. That took hold a few years ago.

Will never trust him again.

I was finished with him after Blake Bortles and the Jags fearsome offense hung 38 points, on Jibbs and his vaunted D, in the 2017 playoff embarrassment.

Typical Jibbs defense, one key player goes out or misses time, at any level of his D, and he can’t adjust enough to not allow jag level offenses to shred them.

At this point, I’m not sure who I despise more, Jibbs or Rooney.

Dan Smith--BYU wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:28 pm

The answer to this will be like the Rotten Tomatoes ratings for Moonlight or any other pretentious film that has no public appeal.

Media will say fresh at 98 and the public (esp. Yinzers) will say rotten at 45.

Moonlight is neither the most pretentious nor the worst film of its kind. I thought it was pretty good. Music and cinematography are top notch, as well.

955876 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:54 pm

Stillchest wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:06 pm

TimmayLake wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:56 pm

Sad to say, but I think it'll still be "won a Super Bowl with someone else's players...all talk, no substance...player's coach"

"Never had a losing season" looks like it's going away too.

He could have changed this by winning a Super Bowl (or a few playoff games) with his own teams, but alas he did not.

Nah.

The social justice/ virtue signaling MSM will cement his legacy as “one of the greatest coaches of all time.”

This.


Otherwise the media would call him what he is,,, Barry Switzer that stuck around 10 years longer than he should have.

He was better than that... he just stayed past his expiration date. If dude had retired after 2010 people would have thought much more highly of him. 2007 was very positive. 2008 was a fantastic team. 2010 was a pretty dang good coaching job, with a rough offseason and early season scenario. Some warts revealed in that Super Bowl that presaged the rest, but those first 4 years he was the right HC for the moment.

Insert fart sound here.

bradshaw2ben wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:17 am

955876 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:54 pm

Stillchest wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:06 pm

Nah.

The social justice/ virtue signaling MSM will cement his legacy as “one of the greatest coaches of all time.”

This.


Otherwise the media would call him what he is,,, Barry Switzer that stuck around 10 years longer than he should have.

He was better than that... he just stayed past his expiration date. If dude had retired after 2010 people would have thought much more highly of him. 2007 was very positive. 2008 was a fantastic team. 2010 was a pretty dang good coaching job, with a rough offseason and early season scenario. Some warts revealed in that Super Bowl that presaged the rest, but those first 4 years he was the right HC for the moment.

So, in other words, before Tomlin put his fingerprints on the team.

Truly pathetic.

Tomlin's legacy will be that he was a great cheerleader and motivator of men (who were self-motivated already). Not so good at building a team, x's and o's, and hiring good coordinators.

Won with Cowhers players. Wasted the prime of a 1st ballot HOF QB.

franco32 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:34 am

Tomlin's legacy will be that he was a great cheerleader and motivator of men (who were self-motivated already). Not so good at building a team, x's and o's, and hiring good coordinators.

Exactly!

Chuck Noll once told Andy Russell, “If I think you need motivating, I’m going to fire you.”

“Leader of men.” What a crock of shit.

Stillchest wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:40 am

StillerInCT wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:51 pm

blu wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:56 pm

He may have been called a racist (I don't agree) but Ron called Tomlin a fraud from the start.

Tomlin wasn't the only reason Ron was and is a racist.

Ron was still accurate in pegging Jibbs a fraud.

I want Tomlin gone as much, if not more than the next person, but to call him a fraud is a little bit hyperbolic. The guy won a lot of games, a super bowl, and been to 2. By any metric Tomlin is going into the hall of fame based on those numbers. Credit where credit is due. You can't fault the guy for winning with Cowher's players. You can use it to downplay some of his success, but he still did what he had to do successfully. You can say it was all Ben and there's merit there, but it's impossible to disentangle them from each other because they were together for so long.

Was/is Tomlin overrated? Yes. Was he a fraud? I don't think so. He's just a guy that's well past his shelf life.

StillerInCT wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:40 pm

Stillchest wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:40 am

StillerInCT wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:51 pm

Tomlin wasn't the only reason Ron was and is a racist.

Ron was still accurate in pegging Jibbs a fraud.

I want Tomlin gone as much, if not more than the next person, but to call him a fraud is a little bit hyperbolic. The guy won a lot of games, a super bowl, and been to 2. By any metric Tomlin is going into the hall of fame based on those numbers. Credit where credit is due. You can't fault the guy for winning with Cowher's players. You can use it to downplay some of his success, but he still did what he had to do successfully. You can say it was all Ben and there's merit there, but it's impossible to disentangle them from each other because they were together for so long.

Was/is Tomlin overrated? Yes. Was he a fraud? I don't think so. He's just a guy that's well past his shelf life.

He's a good manager of the locker room.

In general, he's good at connecting with the players.

But from a technical aspect, he's mediocre at best.

He can't, in game, manage for shit.

He's either incapable or unwilling to implement dynamic schemes and sets, dependent upon the opponent.

He's all about cramming the round peg into the hole, and if the hole is round, then great; if not, tough shit, we are going to pound it until it fits, or lose.


IF he goes to another team, that outcome will be the final determinant, BUT I don't think he'll do that. I think when he leaves the Steelers, he'll retire from coaching. I think Tomlin lives in his fears enough to recognize, moving to another team will fully expose his bullshit.

Ultimately, those that follow the Steelers with an informed understanding, will realize he was a tremendous beneficiary of the prior administration's personnel, staff and schematic decisions.

With the exception of Haley's offense, once Cowher's coaches were gone, this team has seriously gone down hill.

IF you separate his 17 years, into to categories, and judged him on the post Cowher personnel performance, everyone would have a greatly different opinion of him.

True story. It's preseason this year and I'm sitting in a cafe in Greenport, NY on Long Island. Guy walks in with his son. Both have Steelers gear. We get to talking and he's from Squirrel Hill and is a huge fan. He says he's excited about the year. I said we likely won't go far because of Tomlin.

He seems shocked. He says (no joke) that Tomlin is the BEST coach in Steelers history (as if Chuck Noll never existed). He asks me why I would be criticizing such a great coach. I went about explaining my rationale: lack of innovation, in-game management, terrible coordinator hires, inability to adapt schemes, lack of discipline, etc.

He then says "those are all just stereotypes for black coaches". In other words, I'm racist for criticizing him. So, I paste him with examples and he gets visibly annoyed and walks off.

The moral of the story? No matter how much we recognize Tomlin's ineptitudes, there will be segment of the population, media, and even our own fan base which will try to shelter Tomlin and may even use race (even though it has zero to do with it).

Art 2 is susceptible to this segment of the population and that is my biggest concern right now. How is he going to have the courage to pull the trigger when we know he's been a coward for years?

Greenport a good town Franco

We have a place close by on Long Island

Use the ferry from Shelter Island

And what you said is unfortunately accurate

Can’t be critical…I can, don’t care. I don’t care what color the coach is…all I ask is for competency. Tomlin is a joke. Time to move on.

Greeksteel wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:36 am

Won with Cowhers players. Wasted the prime of a 1st ballot HOF QB.

James Harrison was 100% not "Cowher's players". First thing that happened when Tomlin came aboard was to say goodbye to Joey Porter and promote James Harrison. A year later, they had the best defense of a generation.

Let's not let how far it's crashed down completely rewrite history.