Whaley Opines

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Whaley Opines

Post by Steeldrama » Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:31 pm



Nick Markakis on Astros: "Every guy over there needs a beating."

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Post by K_C_ » Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:28 pm

No doubt Cam Sutton's a piece of shit in his personal life, but I've never watched him take plays off on the gridiron.

I've never laughed out loud at Cam Sutton for being an utter RETARD on a football field, like I have multiple times at Diontae Johnson.
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Post by anpsteel » Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:02 pm

DJ was addition by subtraction. I'll stand on that hill forever

Sutton, I don't get. I mean, sure he knows the defense, but his actions are beyond abhorrent.

No way would I have brought him back, but I'm sure coach T is "helping him to turn his life around" or some such bs.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:39 pm

Well, Whaley's case will be stronger when they re-sign Cam Heyward & Najee to big deals.

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Post by K_C_ » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:34 am

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:39 pm
Well, Whaley's case will be stronger when they re-sign Cam Heyward & Najee to big deals.
I could see Najee getting a little more than he’s worth but Heyward is not getting a multi-year deal, unless it comes with little or no guarantees.

No way.
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:25 am

They value loyalty and non football stuff like 100000 times more than the average nfl team

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Post by K_C_ » Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:55 am

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:25 am
They value loyalty and non football stuff like 100000 times more than the average nfl team
Cam Heyward is on the wrong side of 30 and is coming off an injury riddled season.

If he re-signs with the Steelers (big if, but don’t think the Steelers give a shit if he’s back or not) what kind of contract do you see Heyward getting?
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Post by O'Donnell's Bookie » Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:44 am

I don't see Najee or Heyward re-signing.

I do think they get something done with the Fry Daddy though.

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Post by Ice » Thu Jul 11, 2024 1:44 pm

Freiermuth has a lot to prove this year. The Artie-fense features TE, and needs a good one, and other than people liking to say Muuuuuth, he hasn't shown much special or even above average at this point, and he's got injury issues. Lot to prove.
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Post by anpsteel » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:00 pm

K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:34 am
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:39 pm
Well, Whaley's case will be stronger when they re-sign Cam Heyward & Najee to big deals.
I could see Najee getting a little more than he’s worth but Heyward is not getting a multi-year deal, unless it comes with little or no guarantees.

No way.

I think there is about zero chance they pay Najee $8+ mil per/yr

And Cam will get a thank you deal

3 years, $45-$50mil w/ $20mil guaranteed

not sure if that what he’s expecting, but I don’t think they can go much higher than that, in terms of guaranteed money. Maybe $25m

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Post by K_C_ » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:14 pm

anpsteel wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:00 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:34 am
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:39 pm
Well, Whaley's case will be stronger when they re-sign Cam Heyward & Najee to big deals.
I could see Najee getting a little more than he’s worth but Heyward is not getting a multi-year deal, unless it comes with little or no guarantees.

No way.

I think there is about zero chance they pay Najee $8+ mil per/yr

And Cam will get a thank you deal

3 years, $45-$50mil w/ $20mil guaranteed

not sure if that what he’s expecting, but I don’t think they can go much higher than that, in terms of guaranteed money. Maybe $25m
Holy shit.

If they give Cam Heyward 20 million guaranteed at this point of his career, that might be the dumbest signing in Steelers history.

The guy is on fumes.

I think you might be right on this if Colbert were still calling the shots. Khan ain't Colbert and I don't think Khan is afraid to say; "Um...NO" to Heyward,.

Najee is still young and while he isn't an elite back, he's very solid and with a much improved offensive line, don't be surprised if Harris has a huge year. I think if Najee returns, he will get a nice deal for all involved. Harris still has very good years ahead of him. Heyward doesn't.
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Post by O'Donnell's Bookie » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:35 pm

I think we're headed a different direction on offense.

Its gonna be built around the muthafuckin Fry Daddy, Warren, and Pickens.

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Post by DP39 » Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:19 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:25 am
They value loyalty and non football stuff like 100000 times more than the average nfl team
I don't think the average fan realizes the behind the scenes, full-court press this organization put on to help Cam get the WPMOY award. Unless he's retiring, they're not gonna just walk away from that within a year.

While I would've rather had, say, someone like Calais Campbell for ~$7M/per and spent the extra savings on another DL FA or WR/CB FA, Cam's still here and gonna get paid, AGAIN, unfortunately.

As for Najee, I think Tomlin may have soured on him a little.

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Post by Stosh-67 » Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:52 pm

K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:55 am
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:25 am
They value loyalty and non football stuff like 100000 times more than the average nfl team
Cam Heyward is on the wrong side of 30 and is coming off an injury riddled season.

If he re-signs with the Steelers (big if, but don’t think the Steelers give a shit if he’s back or not) what kind of contract do you see Heyward getting?

He is actually on the wrong side of 35.


Not too many Dline had big years after 35.

A few notable guys in the last 20 -25 years or so.

Now Cam plays a different role and position than some of these guys.

Reggie White had 41 sacks from league age 35 and on, including 8,5, 11 and 16 sacks , at age 35, 36, 37. avf. about 44 tackles a year at 35-37.
Bruce Smith, sacks from age 35........... 10, 7, 10, 5, 9, 5.played till 40. avg about 50 tackles a year 35-39

Sapp last year was at age 35. 2 sacks and 51 tackles.
Strahan, 12 sacks last 2 years....done by 36
JJ Watt, done by 33.
John Randle, 12.5 sacks last two years, not alot of tackles at all.........done by 36
Julius Peppers, 34 sacks last 4 years at age 35 thru 38.
Calais Campbell, 13.5 sacks last three years at age 35-37
Chris Doleman, 46 sacks last 4 years....35-38
Freeney, 14 sacks last 3 years...35-37
Aaron Donald ...done at 32 ?

Last year of some of the greats and notables
Deacon Jones -36
Jack Youngblood - 34
Richard Dent - 37 ( 2 starts after 34 )
Jared Allen -33
Al Baker -34
Harvey Martin -33
Randy White -35
Gastineau -32
Klecko -35
Alzado - 36
Too Tall - 38...24 sacks last 4 years
Dexter Manley -32
Mario Williams -31
Pugh -34
George Martin -35
Lilly -35
Fred Dean -33
Howie Long -33
Olsen -36
Dan Hampton -33
LRS - 30
L.C.G. -35
Mean Joe -35

Anyway,
players take better care of their bodies these days, eat better, better training, information, etc.
as well as the game not being as physical as years past.........60's, 70's 80's

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Jul 11, 2024 4:31 pm

K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:55 am
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:25 am
They value loyalty and non football stuff like 100000 times more than the average nfl team
Cam Heyward is on the wrong side of 30 and is coming off an injury riddled season.

If he re-signs with the Steelers (big if, but don’t think the Steelers give a shit if he’s back or not) what kind of contract do you see Heyward getting?
I think Heyward is a made man. They won't jettison him.

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Post by K_C_ » Thu Jul 11, 2024 4:36 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 4:31 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:55 am
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:25 am
They value loyalty and non football stuff like 100000 times more than the average nfl team
Cam Heyward is on the wrong side of 30 and is coming off an injury riddled season.

If he re-signs with the Steelers (big if, but don’t think the Steelers give a shit if he’s back or not) what kind of contract do you see Heyward getting?
I think Heyward is a made man. They won't jettison him.
anpsteel opined that Heyward could get a deal from the Steelers with 20 million in guaranteed money which I'll slit my wrists if that happens.

Then read Stosh's post above.

Heyward might be a made man, but the Steelers aren't insane. They know the dude is older than all fuck for a defensive lineman (hell, for any position except maybe QB these days) and was hurt for nearly all of last season.

The Steelers UNDER COLBERT have a reputation for giving guys thank you baskets worth a lot of money at the end of their careers. I don't think Khan is anything like Colbert. Heyward is doing a ton of bitching in the media and the Steelers aren't taking the bait. They aren't saying anything.

I honestly don't think they're too worried about Heyward leaving and there is absolutely no way they give the guy 20 million in guaranteed money at this LATE stage of his career.
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Post by Orangesteel » Thu Jul 11, 2024 6:57 pm

Freiermuth to me at this point is just a guy. He’s often injured too. I might give him somewhat of a pass considering he was being thrown balls by Kenny “Puttin’ it in the Dirt” Pickett, but Pat needs to make something happen.

There are a ton of other TEs that are doing way more than he is.
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Post by Mick » Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:27 pm

Orangesteel wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 6:57 pm
Freiermuth to me at this point is just a guy. He’s often injured too. I might give him somewhat of a pass considering he was being thrown balls by Kenny “Puttin’ it in the Dirt” Pickett, but Pat needs to make something happen.

There are a ton of other TEs that are doing way more than he is.
you can argue for freiermuth being a bit above average, or average, or below, or just a guy. In any case, every receiver on our roster other than Pickens is light years away from being at Freiermuth’s level.

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Post by Ice » Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:51 pm

If he's not surprisingly good this year, we shouldn't be shocked if TE is a pretty high pick in next year's draft, or priority in free agency.
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Post by SteelerDayTrader » Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:32 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:25 am
They value loyalty and non football stuff like 100000 times more than the average nfl team
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Post by Ice » Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:13 am

Whether it's more money for a pretty clearly past his time Cam (and as a Buckeye fan (Google his last game, played on a mostly broken leg), a Pitt alum and Steeler fan, I love the player over the years), pretending Freiermuth is a good TE because you liked the Heeeath chant and transferred it to Muuuuth, or a litany of other similar issues, for the Steelers (and 80%-ish of the fanbase), nostalgia is a helluva drug.
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Post by Deebo » Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:02 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 4:31 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:55 am
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 3:25 am
They value loyalty and non football stuff like 100000 times more than the average nfl team
Cam Heyward is on the wrong side of 30 and is coming off an injury riddled season.

If he re-signs with the Steelers (big if, but don’t think the Steelers give a shit if he’s back or not) what kind of contract do you see Heyward getting?
I think Heyward is a made man. They won't jettison him.
Well I think the Heyward and Najee contracts will be a perfect bellweather to know who really runs the show.

- If 1 or both are resigned, then you know Tomlin is still pulling the strings
- If they don't offer contracts, then Khan/Weidl have the power

Believe it or not, we're at a possible inflection point of this franchise. Much like Cowher/Donahue...we'll see who wins this power struggle.

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Post by anpsteel » Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:27 pm

K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:14 pm
anpsteel wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:00 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:34 am


I could see Najee getting a little more than he’s worth but Heyward is not getting a multi-year deal, unless it comes with little or no guarantees.

No way.

I think there is about zero chance they pay Najee $8+ mil per/yr

And Cam will get a thank you deal

3 years, $45-$50mil w/ $20mil guaranteed

not sure if that what he’s expecting, but I don’t think they can go much higher than that, in terms of guaranteed money. Maybe $25m
Holy shit.

If they give Cam Heyward 20 million guaranteed at this point of his career, that might be the dumbest signing in Steelers history.

The guy is on fumes.

I think you might be right on this if Colbert were still calling the shots. Khan ain't Colbert and I don't think Khan is afraid to say; "Um...NO" to Heyward,.

Najee is still young and while he isn't an elite back, he's very solid and with a much improved offensive line, don't be surprised if Harris has a huge year. I think if Najee returns, he will get a nice deal for all involved. Harris still has very good years ahead of him. Heyward doesn't.
I'm not convinced Cam is done.

The 3 year, $45/$50 mil w/ $20mil guaranteed is a fairly team friendly structure. He's getting $16m this year anyway. Which is why I think it might take $25m guaranteed, to make it work.

So you have the 16 from this season. at $25- that leaves essentially $9mil more guaranteed for next season, even if he can't play.

You could put some verbiage in the contract about health and voidable years.... or whatever.

Anyway, they have to pay Cam. The dude has been a rock and a tremendous leader. It would be absolutely terrible optics and leadership to let him walk.


In regard to Najee... I have no issues with him; either as a person or player. He seems like a good dude and busts his ass.

I just can't mentally justify a C2 for a meh RB.

Would he take less than $8m p/yr ??? I doubt it, and I don't blame him. I just don't want it to be the Steelers that pay him.

Save the loot. Draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round and move on.
Last edited by anpsteel on Sat Jul 13, 2024 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by beerbrother » Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:21 pm

Tombert I think would give Heyward an extension prior to the season.

Khan I'm not so sure wants wants to do anything until after the season. Wait & see approach. His contract should be indicative of his performance.

Doesn't want to do a bad deal for the Steelers. If Heyward is injured again this year his value goes down. Besides he can gamble on Cam being a good loyal employee that wants to come back if they will have him.

It seems like they may have soured a bit on Najee. If they wanted him back they could have used the 5th year option at 6.8 million. He will probably fetch better than that on the open market next year.
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Post by Pabst » Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:18 pm

K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 4:36 pm
The Steelers UNDER COLBERT have a reputation for giving guys thank you baskets worth a lot of money at the end of their careers. I don't think Khan is anything like Colbert. Heyward is doing a ton of bitching in the media and the Steelers aren't taking the bait. They aren't saying anything.
Might be useful to go back and look at some Steeler greats from the 00s and 2010s. Here's how old these guys were when they got their final extension (and the end result):

Casey Hampton - 3 year extension at 32 - Took a paycut in final season, but played out contract and retired at 35
James Farrior - 5 year contract at 33 - Released after 4
Troy Polamalu - 3 year extension at 33 - Mainly a restructure to lower his cap hit. He "retired" the following year
Ike Taylor - 4 year extension at 31 - Took paycut in final season, played out contract and retired at 33
Hines Ward - 4 year extension at 33 - Released after 3
James Harrison - 6 year contract at 31 - Released after 4


Cam already signed his big "after 30" extension. His situation is closer to Ike or Hampton's, with the difference being the Steelers are not in any sort of cap crunch at the moment. They're not asking him to take a paycut because they don't need him to.

The only example of the Steelers bringing a guy back in his late 30s is James Harrison, and he was playing for (relative) peanuts.

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Post by K_C_ » Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:23 pm

anpsteel wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:27 pm
Anyway, they have to pay Cam. The dude has been a rock and a tremendous leader. It would be absolutely terrible optics and leadership to let him walk.
This is where we STRONGLY disagree.

Cam Heyward has made a shit ton of money from the Pittsburgh Steelers and he's absolute earned every penny.

But you absolutely never pay a guy big money for what he has already done for you. You pay him for what you believe he is going to do for you in the future.

Also, you say you don't believe Cam is "done." Define "done." Do you expect a 10 sack season like he had in 2021 and 2022? That would mean last season was just an injury riddled fluke.

I'm not so sure last year was an injury riddled fluke. Heyward is 35 years old. I'll be shocked if he 1) stays healthy and 2) has a very productive season at his age. Mid 30's is when injuries start becoming a regular occurrence for dudes who play in the trenches.

The guy absolutely cannot command a multi-year deal. Not at his age. Something incentive laden after one year? I'm all for it.
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Post by gojira5150 » Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:24 pm

anpsteel wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:27 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:14 pm
anpsteel wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:00 pm



I think there is about zero chance they pay Najee $8+ mil per/yr

And Cam will get a thank you deal

3 years, $45-$50mil w/ $20mil guaranteed

not sure if that what he’s expecting, but I don’t think they can go much higher than that, in terms of guaranteed money. Maybe $25m
Holy shit.

If they give Cam Heyward 20 million guaranteed at this point of his career, that might be the dumbest signing in Steelers history.

The guy is on fumes.

I think you might be right on this if Colbert were still calling the shots. Khan ain't Colbert and I don't think Khan is afraid to say; "Um...NO" to Heyward,.

Najee is still young and while he isn't an elite back, he's very solid and with a much improved offensive line, don't be surprised if Harris has a huge year. I think if Najee returns, he will get a nice deal for all involved. Harris still has very good years ahead of him. Heyward doesn't.
I'm not convinced Cam is done.

The 3 year, $45/$50 mil w/ $20mil guaranteed is a fairly team friendly structure. He's getting $16m this year anyway. Which is why I think it might take $25m guaranteed, to make it work.

So you have the 16 from this season. at $25- that leaves essentially $9mil more guaranteed for next season, even if he can't play.

You could put some verbiage in the contract about health and voidable years.... or whatever.

Anyway, they have to pay Cam. The dude has been a rock and a tremendous leader. It would be absolutely terrible optics and leadership to let him walk.

In regard to Najee... I have no issues with him; either as a person or player. He seems like a good dude and busts his ass. I just can't mentally justify a C2 for a meh RB.

Would he take less than $8m p/yr ??? I doubt it, and I don't blame him. I just don't want it to be the Steelers that pay him.

Save the loot. Draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round and move on.
REALLY?! You want to give (S)cam another 3 years (at 35y/o) $45/$50 mil with $20 mil guaranteed. WOW! That's insane. He's done Absolutely nothing in the Play-offs and it's time to move on & find his replacement in Draft or FA next year.

You don't waste a high draft pick (RD1 -R3) on a RB. Late draft rounds or UDFA like Warren or FWP.
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Post by Stosh-67 » Fri Jul 12, 2024 4:09 pm

Pabst wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 2:18 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 4:36 pm
The Steelers UNDER COLBERT have a reputation for giving guys thank you baskets worth a lot of money at the end of their careers. I don't think Khan is anything like Colbert. Heyward is doing a ton of bitching in the media and the Steelers aren't taking the bait. They aren't saying anything.
Might be useful to go back and look at some Steeler greats from the 00s and 2010s. Here's how old these guys were when they got their final extension (and the end result):

Casey Hampton - 3 year extension at 32 - Took a paycut in final season, but played out contract and retired at 35
James Farrior - 5 year contract at 33 - Released after 4
Troy Polamalu - 3 year extension at 33 - Mainly a restructure to lower his cap hit. He "retired" the following year
Ike Taylor - 4 year extension at 31 - Took paycut in final season, played out contract and retired at 33
Hines Ward - 4 year extension at 33 - Released after 3
James Harrison - 6 year contract at 31 - Released after 4


Cam already signed his big "after 30" extension. His situation is closer to Ike or Hampton's, with the difference being the Steelers are not in any sort of cap crunch at the moment. They're not asking him to take a paycut because they don't need him to.

The only example of the Steelers bringing a guy back in his late 30s is James Harrison, and he was playing for (relative) peanuts.
nice post Pabst

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Post by Stosh-67 » Fri Jul 12, 2024 4:13 pm

I think it would be a good exercise to see what young players on the roster may flee in free agency in the next year or two........
because we allocated the money to Cam and could not afford to keep said young player.

Who is that next Hilton player that may head out on FA market ....that we should have paid?

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Post by anpsteel » Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:10 pm

gojira5150 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:24 pm
anpsteel wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:27 pm
K_C_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:14 pm


Holy shit.

If they give Cam Heyward 20 million guaranteed at this point of his career, that might be the dumbest signing in Steelers history.

The guy is on fumes.

I think you might be right on this if Colbert were still calling the shots. Khan ain't Colbert and I don't think Khan is afraid to say; "Um...NO" to Heyward,.

Najee is still young and while he isn't an elite back, he's very solid and with a much improved offensive line, don't be surprised if Harris has a huge year. I think if Najee returns, he will get a nice deal for all involved. Harris still has very good years ahead of him. Heyward doesn't.
I'm not convinced Cam is done.

The 3 year, $45/$50 mil w/ $20mil guaranteed is a fairly team friendly structure. He's getting $16m this year anyway. Which is why I think it might take $25m guaranteed, to make it work.

So you have the 16 from this season. at $25- that leaves essentially $9mil more guaranteed for next season, even if he can't play.

You could put some verbiage in the contract about health and voidable years.... or whatever.

Anyway, they have to pay Cam. The dude has been a rock and a tremendous leader. It would be absolutely terrible optics and leadership to let him walk.

In regard to Najee... I have no issues with him; either as a person or player. He seems like a good dude and busts his ass. I just can't mentally justify a C2 for a meh RB.

Would he take less than $8m p/yr ??? I doubt it, and I don't blame him. I just don't want it to be the Steelers that pay him.

Save the loot. Draft a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round and move on.
REALLY?! You want to give (S)cam another 3 years (at 35y/o) $45/$50 mil with $20 mil guaranteed. WOW! That's insane. He's done Absolutely nothing in the Play-offs and it's time to move on & find his replacement in Draft or FA next year.

You don't waste a high draft pick (RD1 -R3) on a RB. Late draft rounds or UDFA like Warren or FWP.
You're giving him this season, (already on the books for $16m) and next for ~$10m + whatever else they add to the structure... and a 3rd season for another $15m ish... but that year is really a throw away year.

So, you're really only adding ~$10-$15mil - unless he performs well, then he plays out the deal.

I'd infinitely rather give Cam $15m than some dbag receiver, like DJ that was making about that much

Anywho

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