Short yardage struggles - why?

[TimmayLake]

Last night the Browns converted what seemed like a half dozen 3rd or 4th and shorts by having fatass Jameis Winston fall forward.

Meanwhile the Steelers are IN THE FIGHT OF THEIR LIVES to convert a 3rd and 1 with a supposedly improved OL and power back in Najee. Why do we struggle so mightily to convert 3rd and short?

[SteelerDayTrader]

Last night the Browns converted what seemed like a half dozen 3rd or 4th and shorts by having fatass Jameis Winston fall forward.

Meanwhile the Steelers are IN THE FIGHT OF THEIR LIVES to convert a 3rd and 1 with a supposedly improved OL and power back in Najee. Why do we struggle so mightily to convert 3rd and short?

1. The OL isn’t very good
2. The RBs aren’t very good
3. The offensive scheme/coaching isn’t very good

[Gonzo]

The browns on a few of those did quick hitters to the back
We like to hand off or pitch a minimum of 5 yards back

[Orangesteel]

Shitty coaching and shitty in the trenches.

Please let us know if you need more information.

- SteelerFury.com

[Obviously]

Because Tomlin.

[955876]

Last night the Browns converted what seemed like a half dozen 3rd or 4th and shorts by having fatass Jameis Winston fall forward.

Meanwhile the Steelers are IN THE FIGHT OF THEIR LIVES to convert a 3rd and 1 with a supposedly improved OL and power back in Najee. Why do we struggle so mightily to convert 3rd and short?

1. The OL isn’t very good
2. The RBs aren’t very good
3. The offensive scheme/coaching isn’t very good

This.

How many times to Jibbs need to get kicked in the face before he realizes slow developing runs up the gut with Najee that start 14 yards behind the LOS aren’t fooling anyone and don’t work?

Then the fucking idiot has his back-up QB that hasn’t thrown a pass all night toss one deep on 3rd & 4 for the ballgame.

Fucking dunce will never ever understand the risk/reward matrix.

[Ovie]

Running Najee head-first into 8 man fronts so consistently, even my grandma can see it coming is the answer. That is NOT a "short yardage strategy".

[Stosh-67]

A common theme on these 3rd and 4th and 1s........
Is Connor Heyward.
Whether he is lined up in the H back slot, behind the inline TE.
Pulls left on snaps.
Or goes in motion, left.
Or lined up in the backfield as a FB......hitting left guard.

It almost always seems they are running behind left guard on these downs and distance?

He is so ineffective in this role.
I see it, you see it,
defenses see it.
the staff don't see it.

I can recall ONE effective block from CH in the last few weeks to the year.
The Fields keeper around the right side, CH took out 2 guys.
I think JF had the corner regardless on that play.

I would think outside the box.

Elandon Roberts.
The short burst speed.
The hammer mentality.
and the willingness to pound
The 6'1-" 238 listing....
he has to go 250 easy.
Safety or NB will not like seeing him lined up at FB.
Not be as eager to stick their nose thru the line.

Or we keep doing what we do.
We keep running the same play until the execution proves the answer.
When simple execution is failing........because of the designed plays with the chosen personell..........is the actual root causes,
long before execution is demanded. I think I caught a Kamala cold with that last sentence.
Madness. Madness.

[955876]

He is so ineffective in this role.
I see it, you see it,
defenses see it.
the staff don't see it.

Ya but nepotism and all. Gotta get big Cam’s lil bro some snaps.

These problems might get solved when we stop wasting roster spots for guys like Connor Heyward.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Conor Heyward sucks

And Scam Heyward is no great shakes

[franco32]

They love themselves some Connor Heyward. Most running plays I see blown up feature CH getting manhandled. It's mind-boggling why he gets so many snaps. Pruitt can't be worse.

Part of the other problem with short yd struggle is the insistence on the 2 TE heavy sets that crowd the line of scrimmage. We simply don't have the beef to run well on those crowded lines. We aren't Detroit. To make matters worse, it takes our RB 2 seconds to get to the line of scrimmage.

Finally, we seem to fear the QB sneak.

That equals poor short yardage.

[Deebo]

Conor Heyward sucks

And Scam Heyward is no great shakes

I said it in another thread, but C Heyward is a good football player/great IQ. He just doesn't have a home in the NFL. Too undersized and too slow for most all positions.
He could make it as a ST's ace but that's about it.

[Steelafan77]

1. The OL isn’t very good
2. The RBs aren’t very good
3. The offensive scheme/coaching isn’t very good

Predictability, Poor Execution, Underestimating Opponent, Poor Game Management, Underwhelming Talent at KEY Positions and Finally SHORT WEEK!

[Stosh-67]

They love themselves some Connor Heyward. Most running plays I see blown up feature CH getting manhandled. It's mind-boggling why he gets so many snaps. Pruitt can't be worse.

Part of the other problem with short yd struggle is the insistence on the 2 TE heavy sets that crowd the line of scrimmage. We simply don't have the beef to run well on those crowded lines. We aren't Detroit. To make matters worse, it takes our RB 2 seconds to get to the line of scrimmage.

Finally, we seem to fear the QB sneak.

That equals poor short yardage.

And game to game, it may not be the number of snaps.....
But when he is in, he usually is the focal point of a run play.
Predictable for the defense.

Similar to Patterson.
Not a ton of snaps....
But more often than not, he may be involved in the play call, get the ball, etc.
Predictable for the defense.

Sub-optimizing the talent on this team, personnel on the field, player involvement when they are on the field.

[jeemie]

Tomlin admitting a shortcoming?

Sort of...saying the Steelers' coaches have been a little too frantic and ansty in short yardage situations, especially in using replay assist to accurately gauge where the ball is so if they choose to go for it, they get the right play call in.

https://steelersdepot.com/2024/11/mike- ... ituations/

I only note this because it's rare for Tomlin saying the coaches have to get better, and being specific about where they have to get better.

That said...not sure you can blame the fourth and inches on not waiting for replay assist.

I don't care if it's fourth and inches or fourth and short...having a formation where your RB is nine yards back of the LOS is ridiculous in short yardage situations, period.

I was screaming at the TV before the snap about WTF was Warren doing lined up so far back in the backfield.

[jeemie]

And speaking of that 4th and inches play- yikes, how is Wilson not audibling out of the playcall when presented with this?

I don't remember if anyone flexed out to cover Pickens before the snap- I realize I'm going off a still instead of a video, but even if so, 10-11 in the box with Warren lined up 9 yards back, and Wilson stuck with the play as called? How is there not a check with me here?

[Stosh-67]

And speaking of that 4th and inches play- yikes, how is Wilson not audibling out of the playcall when presented with this?

I don't remember if anyone flexed out to cover Pickens before the snap- I realize I'm going off a still instead of a video, but even if so, 10-11 in the box with Warren lined up 9 yards back, and Wilson stuck with the play as called? How is there not a check with me here?

Madness.
Looks like the CB on the right side is racing over to go cover Pickens as that LB/safety was probably pointing for him to head that way

[jeemie]

And speaking of that 4th and inches play- yikes, how is Wilson not audibling out of the playcall when presented with this?

I don't remember if anyone flexed out to cover Pickens before the snap- I realize I'm going off a still instead of a video, but even if so, 10-11 in the box with Warren lined up 9 yards back, and Wilson stuck with the play as called? How is there not a check with me here?

Madness.
Looks like the CB on the right side is racing over to go cover Pickens as that LB/safety was probably pointing for him to head that way

Then Wilson should either audible to a sneak or at least a handoff to the fullback instead of Warren.

Anything other than keeping the play as called (the sneak looks like it is there to be had).

If he missed this...terrible on him.

If he was not allowed to audible- terrible on the coaches.

[Stosh-67]

And speaking of that 4th and inches play- yikes, how is Wilson not audibling out of the playcall when presented with this?

I don't remember if anyone flexed out to cover Pickens before the snap- I realize I'm going off a still instead of a video, but even if so, 10-11 in the box with Warren lined up 9 yards back, and Wilson stuck with the play as called? How is there not a check with me here?

Madness.
Looks like the CB on the right side is racing over to go cover Pickens as that LB/safety was probably pointing for him to head that way

Then Wilson should either audible to a sneak or at least a handoff to the fullback instead of Warren.

Anything other than keeping the play as called (the sneak looks like it is there to be had).

If he missed this...terrible on him.

If he was not allowed to audible- terrible on the coaches.

Oh No.
totally agree with you on everything we see here.
1. Wilson should see no one covering 14 and hurry the snap to get a pass out his way.
2. 10-11 in the box with, RB at 8-9 yards deep.
3. A TE in Pruit at FB? Is he a capable FB?
4. Heyward again as a blocking TE who can not win blocking as a pulling lead blocker.
5. Is that Washington or Spencer Andersen on right side of Broderick?
6. Why is QB sneak not in the playbook here.....as the center to RG hole is begging.

So much wrong before they even break huddle.
This is coaching 101.
This is off season clarity of thought, scheme, formation, play call, etc.
Mini-camp wrinkles.
OTAs discussion.
Training camp repetitions.
Pre-season games to run it.
NOT LOOKING LIKE ITS ALL FOREIGN TO THIS TEAM IN G.D. WEEK ELEVEN

Unfortunately. Expectantly.
We will continue to see these cluster fucks of thought, formations, personnel, execution's, etc.......again and again

[beerbrother]

My gut tells me Ben would have thrown the ball to 14 even if it wasn't called.

Hate going almost 10-yards backwards to gain a few inches. The play goes straight into the defense instead of attacking a weakness.

The reluctance to run a QB sneak is absurd.

Must be keeping it in his pocket along with the unused timeouts.

[955876]

My gut tells me Ben would have thrown the ball to 14 even if it wasn't called.

Meanwhile, Jibba Jabber’s gut is telling him the play would have worked if only it were executed better.

[jeemie]

Madness.
Looks like the CB on the right side is racing over to go cover Pickens as that LB/safety was probably pointing for him to head that way

Then Wilson should either audible to a sneak or at least a handoff to the fullback instead of Warren.

Anything other than keeping the play as called (the sneak looks like it is there to be had).

If he missed this...terrible on him.

If he was not allowed to audible- terrible on the coaches.

Oh No.
totally agree with you on everything we see here.
1. Wilson should see no one covering 14 and hurry the snap to get a pass out his way.
2. 10-11 in the box with, RB at 8-9 yards deep.
3. A TE in Pruit at FB? Is he a capable FB?
4. Heyward again as a blocking TE who can not win blocking as a pulling lead blocker.
5. Is that Washington or Spencer Andersen on right side of Broderick?
6. Why is QB sneak not in the playbook here.....as the center to RG hole is begging.

So much wrong before they even break huddle.
This is coaching 101.
This is off season clarity of thought, scheme, formation, play call, etc.
Mini-camp wrinkles.
OTAs discussion.
Training camp repetitions.
Pre-season games to run it.
NOT LOOKING LIKE ITS ALL FOREIGN TO THIS TEAM IN G.D. WEEK ELEVEN

Unfortunately. Expectantly.
We will continue to see these cluster fucks of thought, formations, personnel, execution's, etc.......again and again

Arthur Smith is developing a bad tendency to sub in backups in his packages on critical downs.

Rumor has it some in the Steelers’ brass are not happy with his playcalling…and this tendency to feature the scrubs when it’s crunch time are chief among their gripes.

I mean seriously…a fade to Patterson on the two point play was the best call he could come up with?

And wtf with him not playing Mike Williams?

[955876]

Then Wilson should either audible to a sneak or at least a handoff to the fullback instead of Warren.

Anything other than keeping the play as called (the sneak looks like it is there to be had).

If he missed this...terrible on him.

If he was not allowed to audible- terrible on the coaches.

Oh No.
totally agree with you on everything we see here.
1. Wilson should see no one covering 14 and hurry the snap to get a pass out his way.
2. 10-11 in the box with, RB at 8-9 yards deep.
3. A TE in Pruit at FB? Is he a capable FB?
4. Heyward again as a blocking TE who can not win blocking as a pulling lead blocker.
5. Is that Washington or Spencer Andersen on right side of Broderick?
6. Why is QB sneak not in the playbook here.....as the center to RG hole is begging.

So much wrong before they even break huddle.
This is coaching 101.
This is off season clarity of thought, scheme, formation, play call, etc.
Mini-camp wrinkles.
OTAs discussion.
Training camp repetitions.
Pre-season games to run it.
NOT LOOKING LIKE ITS ALL FOREIGN TO THIS TEAM IN G.D. WEEK ELEVEN

Unfortunately. Expectantly.
We will continue to see these cluster fucks of thought, formations, personnel, execution's, etc.......again and again

Arthur Smith is developing a bad tendency to sub in backups in his packages on critical downs.

Rumor has it some in the Steelers’ brass are not happy with his playcalling…and this tendency to feature the scrubs when it’s crunch time are chief among their gripes.

I mean seriously…a fade to Patterson on the two point play was the best call he could come up with?

And wtf with him not playing Mike Williams?

All those plays run through the HC’s headset do they not?

If the brass are upset do they not realize there is someone above Smith with more authority?

Or have they been conditioned to blame anyone but their precious HC?

[Stosh-67]

I mean seriously…a fade to Patterson on the two point play was the best call he could come up with?

Insane Jeems.
Absolutely insane.

1. At this point, CP's vertical can not be more than 12" and probably the least athletic skill player we have.
2. I would throw a fad to 3 or 4 others in that spot.......Pickens, Williams, Washington ( he has shown his big mitts to be very good ) Mooth...

Also, not sure if it was you or 95 that kept stating the term "Sub-optimizing" the offense.

And that is exactly what they do...........especially on critical downs and distances.
Been doing this for years.......
even when we had the Killer Bs'
nothing more a defense enjoys than seeing the best skill players "NOT" on the field -creep up the ILBs and S's

1. too many TE's on the field on those 3rd / 4th and 1s......or rather TEs that are not difference makers in blocking..... Heyward, Pruit,
2. Not enough threat of pass on those short plays.....
3. which packs 8-9-10+ in the box.
4. never leaking out a TE on those 3rd and 4th and 1s' - would be WTF open.
5. QB sneak? - huge gap between C and RG that play above.
6. The latest technique of hurrying to the line to quick snap...aint fooling anyone....if #1 thru #6 above is still the result.

7. Give me a better FB option, as I suggest above.
8. Spread them on defense - 3 or 4 wide, RB in the backfield.......have we seen?
9. Pony backfield, NH and JW sidecar of QB.....defense is not gearing on one.
10. fill in the blank

[Gonzo]

My gut tells me Ben would have thrown the ball to 14 even if it wasn't called.

Meanwhile, Jibba Jabber’s gut is telling him the play would have worked if only it were executed better.

“Schematically …there is nothing more we can do”

[Stillerz Bar]

My gut tells me Ben would have thrown the ball to 14 even if it wasn't called.

Meanwhile, Jibba Jabber’s gut is telling him the play would have worked if only it were executed better.

“Schematically …there is nothing more we can do”

Amazingly, the Steelers aren't the only team with poor schematic setup in short yard situations.

All day long I've been watching teams in 3rd or 4th and less than 1 who line up in the shotgun and give it to the RB 5 yards or more behind the LOS. At least 4 or 5 of thise failed today alone. Why don't they line up under center and either sneak it or hand it after the RB has momentum.

[blu]

And wtf with him not playing Mike Williams?

Tomlin is saving Mike Williams for his secret weapon for the playoffs which the Steelers won't get in if Williams is not used more prominently in the offence.

[jeemie]

Arthur Smith admitted he got caught up in “chasing looks” on Thursday.

The example used was the third and one play where Washington false started…but the ball was snapped, and the Browns got to see it.

On a fourth and two later, Smith used the exact same play…same formation, same movements, same everything…and of course it got smothered.

https://steelersdepot.com/2024/11/arthu ... st-browns/

Personally I think Smith is doing this a lot…I haven’t seen too many plays where he calls different concepts from the same formations.

And I wonder if this is Tomlin’s influence because this has been a problems with the Steelers forever.