New NFL Top 10 QB Poll

[BethlehemSteel]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... ers_brooks

When Dave Dameshek asked me to list my top quarterbacks on a recent installment of "The Dave Dameshek Football Podcast" -- a topic we revisited in the following episode -- I thought it was important to avoid citing the same old names based on career achievements. In the scouting world, evaluators not only monitor and assess players on how they perform; they also project whether a player should be considered to be ascending or descending, based on his expected production in the upcoming season.
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Given some time to the review the All-22 Coaches Film from last season and examine the circumstances that could affect each guy's play this fall -- which led me to make a tweak or two -- here are my top 10 quarterbacks heading into 2015:

1) Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers

Rodgers' spot is certainly secure following one of the most impressive seasons of his career. The 10-year veteran tallied a 38:5 touchdown-to-interception ratio en route to capturing his second MVP award. Rodgers -- who had the second-best passer rating in the NFL at 112.2 -- has finished with a passer rating above 100.0 for six straight seasons, a remarkable feat considering he's only been the full-time starter for seven. With the Packers currently boasting the NFL's top receiver corps, Rodgers could enjoy a long run as the league's QB1.

2) Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers

Some will question Big Ben's lofty ranking on this list, but the two-time Super Bowl winner is playing the best football of his career under the tutelage of Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley. The grizzled veteran posted career bests in completion percentage (67.1) and passing yards (4,952, tied for most in the league) and matched his single-season high in touchdowns (32) in 2014. Considering the impressive efficiency (103.3 passer rating) and effectiveness he displayed while directing Pittsburgh's offense with a cast of greenhorns (Le'Veon Bell at running back and Markus Wheaton at receiver, as well as rookie pass catcher Martavis Bryant) acclimating to prominent roles, it's time to recognize Roethlisberger as one of the NFL's premier quarterbacks.

3) Andrew Luck, Indianapolis Colts

It's uncommon for a young quarterback hyped as a franchise player to live up to that promise, but Luck has been better than advertised as the Colts' offensive leader. The three-year veteran continues to refine his game while displaying improved efficiency and effectiveness as a playmaker. Luck significantly increased his pass production (4,761 yards, up from 3,822 in 2013) and boosted his touchdown-to-interception ratio (40:16, up from 23:9 in 2013) while showing his ability to carry an offense with pedestrian players (aging receiver Reggie Wayne and ineffective back Trent Richardson) plugged into key roles. Thanks to Indy's offseason offensive makeover, Luck heads into 2015 with a proven runner (Frank Gore), a veteran big-bodied WR1 (Andre Johnson), a quartet of explosive pass catchers (T.Y. Hilton, Donte Moncrief, Phillip Dorsett and Duron Carter) and a pair of dynamic tight ends (Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen) at his disposal. This supporting cast could help him set the football world ablaze.

4) Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks

Some will argue against Wilson's top-five ranking, based solely on his pass production, but keen observers recognize his value as one of the most efficient dual-threat playmakers at the position. The three-year vet nearly posted a 3,500/1,000 season (3,475 passing yards and 849 rushing yards) as the director of the Seahawks' diverse offensive attack in 2014. People mistakenly see him as a "game manager" for a team that is overly reliant on a dominant defense and a strong running game. But it's hard to dispute his record (36-12) and history of success since entering the NFL. Considering Wilson's clutch production (15 game-winning drives, including 10 fourth-quarter comebacks over his career) and the addition of a dominant "MOF" (middle of the field) target in new tight end Jimmy Graham, the two-time Pro Bowler might cement himself as a no-doubt member of the quarterbacking upper echelon in 2015.

5) Tom Brady, New England Patriots*

Despite being a proven winner (four titles, six total Super Bowl appearances) and one of the NFL's ultimate clutch performers (46 game-winning drives in his 15-year career), Brady's standing on this list is a reflection of the stench emanating from the Deflategate scandal (hence the asterisk). The controversy adds to the notion that the Patriots' long-term success has been fueled by various misdeeds. While there isn't a proven correlation between deflated footballs and Brady's on-field performance, the fact that another scandal is hovering over the Patriots certainly clouds the evaluation.

Statistically speaking, Brady remains one of the top players at the position, posting a passer rating of 97.4 and a 33:9 touchdown-to-interception ratio last season. He continues to pick apart defenses with exceptional precision, albeit in "dink and dunk" fashion (see: Brady's 7.1 yards-per-attempt mark in 2014). Granted, the Patriots' title run was truly sparked by a defense that played at a championship level for most of the season, but it was Brady's solid play in key moments that ultimately helped secure the crown. Brady remains one of the elites at the position, even as he's settling in as the NFL's ultimate game manager in the twilight of his career.

6) Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys

It's possible that Romo is underrated on this list, based on his sensational production over the years. He's quietly ranked as one of the most efficient quarterbacks in NFL history -- his career passer rating of 97.6 is the second-best all time -- and he is a better clutch performer than the commonly held narrative suggests. Romo has engineered 28 game-winning drives in his nine seasons as the starter, including 24 fourth-quarter comebacks. Although his spectacular failures in a few late-game situations have created the perception that he underperforms when the game is on the line, Romo is at his best more often than not when everything is hanging in the balance.

Consider that in the last two minutes of the half in last season's games, Romo compiled a passer rating of 123.1 and a touchdown-to-interception ratio of 7:0. In fourth-quarter situations when the game was within seven points, Romo completed 75 percent of his passes and posted a passer rating of 120.7. In other words, he delivered when it mattered. With the Cowboys shifting to a physical, run-first offense behind the best offensive line in football, Romo should continue to play at a high level as an efficient distributor from the pocket.

7) Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints

It's hard to suggest Brees is a descending player when he's topped the 5,000-yard mark in three of the last four seasons (and was just 48 yards shy of making it four straight in 2014). The numbers suggest the 36-year-old's still one of the best in the business, but the Saints' lack of perimeter weapons could prevent Brees from playing at the level we're accustomed to in 2015. The loss of Jimmy Graham robbed Brees of his most reliable red-zone threat, while Kenny Stills' departure took away a legitimate big-play receiver on the outside. The presence of Sean Payton ensures Brees will play in an imaginative offense suited to his skills as a pinpoint rhythm passer, but the suspect supporting cast could make it hard for the veteran to perform at a high level at his relatively advanced age.

8) Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers

The 11-year veteran was squarely in the conversation as the prospective league MVP during the first half of 2014, but then the Bolts' playoff push collapsed, sunk in part by Rivers' turnovers in the final eight games of the season (13 interceptions and two fumbles lost). Despite his shaky finish, Rivers deserves a spot among the elites based on his solid play over the past two years under Mike McCoy. The Chargers' head coach helped the former Pro Bowler rediscover his game following a lackluster 2012 by installing a quarterback-friendly offense that features more short- and intermediate throws on the perimeter.

Additionally, the Chargers have surrounded Rivers with a big-bodied WR1 (Keenan Allen) and a dynamic runner (Melvin Gordon), factors that alleviate some of the pressure on him to carry the offense solely on the strength of his right arm. Considering his strong production (he's coming off back-to-back seasons with at least 4,200 passing yards, and he posted a 63:29 touchdown-to-interception ratio in that span) and efficiency, Rivers certainly remains among the top quarterbacks in the game.

9) Eli Manning, New York Giants

Seeing Manning's name here will raise eyebrows, but skeptics should focus on the efficiency with which he played down the stretch in 2014 under new offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo. The two-time Super Bowl winner posted a passer rating of 100.0 or better in four of the Giants' last six games, and he developed a strong rapport with youngsters Odell Beckham, Jr. and Rueben Randle on the perimeter. With Victor Cruz expected to return from a knee injury, the Giants should have a dynamic receiving corps with the firepower to overwhelm opponents with its collective speed, athleticism and explosiveness.

Given another offseason to master the intricacies of Big Blue's quick-rhythm system, Manning should build upon his solid performance in 2014 (passer rating of 92.1 and a touchdown-to-interception ratio of 30:14). He could play at a top-five level with one of the best supporting casts in football enhancing his performance.

10) Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos

It seems almost blasphemous to rank Peyton Manning -- who has enjoyed an illustrious career -- at the bottom of this list, but there is no disputing the regression in his game. The Broncos' playoff loss to the Indianapolis Colts showcased his flaws for the NFL world to see: He seems to lacks the arm strength to push the ball down the field. Yes, it's certainly possible a lingering quad injury robbed the veteran of his tools as an elite player, but it's just as likely that Father Time has stepped in and cast a spell on Manning toward the end of his playing days.

I fully expect Manning to continue to post big numbers, based on his exceptional supporting cast and extraordinary work ethic and new coach Gary Kubiak's clever play-calling. But the five-time MVP is no longer the premier player at the position.

Follow Bucky Brooks on Twitter @BuckyBrooks.

[bradshaw2ben]

endorsed

[jeemie]

We'll see if Bucky's take is reflected by more media analysts.

Of course, Dave Damashek is a Steeler fan through and through so I am wondering whether Bucky is catering to that with his list.

But I endorse it as well...be interesting to see if Rodgers remains on top for much longer- dude has a checkered post-season record (I know, I know- he was injured at the end of last year, but still...only one playoff win since the Super Bowl title in 2010).

[Legacy User]

Interesting to see if a lot of our resident members here at SF who had Ben ranked a lot lower than others will now also follow suit and re adjust their rankings.

[lifelongsteel]

pretty good.

Since i've been labeled as a Ben hater (though i've never considered Ben outside of the top 5), I do have to provide my list:

1) Rodgers
2) Brady
3) Ben
4) Luck
5) Rivers
6) Romo
7) Brees
8) Flacco
9) P. Manning
10) Wilson

I still have Brady above Ben, though this is the year that might change. I dropped out Eli and included Flacco, who i think is really, really good. I don't love Wilson as much as others. He's a winner, but . . . . it's still not clear how much of the winning is on him vs. on others

[bradshaw2ben]

regular season, Ben's year dwarfed Brady's… but postseason matters and Brady was good with those deflated balls.

[Kodiak]

I think this is more of a fantasy stat list than top-QB list, though I think the top 2 are the same on both lists (Brady plays for the Cheat with who knows how many advantages).

Ben has been capable of this most of his career. It's only in the past few years when he's got the pieces around him and opening up the offense that he's starting to put up the fantasy numbers.

[Steel Mike]

We'll see if Bucky's take is reflected by more media analysts.

Of course, Dave Damashek is a Steeler fan through and through so I am wondering whether Bucky is catering to that with his list.

But I endorse it as well...be interesting to see if Rodgers remains on top for much longer- dude has a checkered post-season record (I know, I know- he was injured at the end of last year, but still...only one playoff win since the Super Bowl title in 2010).

I listen to Dameshek's podcast and he doesn't seem like the type to cater. JMO.

[Legacy User]

Interesting to see if a lot of our resident members here at SF who had Ben ranked a lot lower than others will now also follow suit and re adjust their rankings.

Help! Help! Ben's being repressed!

[R_S]

We'll see if Bucky's take is reflected by more media analysts.

Of course, Dave Damashek is a Steeler fan through and through so I am wondering whether Bucky is catering to that with his list.

But I endorse it as well...be interesting to see if Rodgers remains on top for much longer- dude has a checkered post-season record (I know, I know- he was injured at the end of last year, but still...only one playoff win since the Super Bowl title in 2010).

In Rodgers defense. He had that game won outright this year. Dumbasses making dumbass plays fucked it up.

[Legacy User]

We'll see if Bucky's take is reflected by more media analysts.

Of course, Dave Damashek is a Steeler fan through and through so I am wondering whether Bucky is catering to that with his list.

But I endorse it as well...be interesting to see if Rodgers remains on top for much longer- dude has a checkered post-season record (I know, I know- he was injured at the end of last year, but still...only one playoff win since the Super Bowl title in 2010).

How many playoff wins does the number 2 guy on this list have since the 2010 afccg?

[BethlehemSteel]

Ah......

[Legacy User]

Ben is gets high praise from the media?

Todd Haley's tutelage brings out the best in Ben?

Goodell suspends Brady and fines the Patriots?

So many SF sacred cows butchered in one fell swoop...why must life be so fair?

What's this about Le'Veon Bell being a greenhorn? Guess we won't miss him in September...

[Minkah'n History]

Interesting to see if a lot of our resident members here at SF who had Ben ranked a lot lower than others will now also follow suit and re adjust their rankings.

Week in and week out AR and Ben are the most consistent quarterbacks in football.

Some have known this for a while now.

[tbsteel]

Alright, here's my list:

1. Aaron Rodgers - Best in the world, not much more needs to be said.

2. Tom Brady - So yeah, after the balls were deflated and then reinflated he went out against the Seahawks and was 37-50 (74% completion) for 328 yards, and 4 TDs, including an incredibly clutch 11 play 4th quarter drive to re-take the lead late. He was 9-9 on the drive. Haters are out in force this season, mainly people who spent the last decade plus getting beat by the Patriots, but his legacy stands. He's the best/most overall accomplished QB of the modern era and is still playing at a very high level.

3. Tony Romo - The guy only completed 70% of his passes last year, threw 34 TDs to 9 picks, 8.5 YPA, won a road playoff game, and damn near beat Rodgers and the Packers in Green Bay if not for a bogus overturned call on a 31 yard completion down on a fourth down. He was efficient, clutch, accurate... don't see how anyone could not be impressed with his play last year. Deserved the MVP talk he was getting.

4. Ben Roethlisberger - How does everyone feel about Todd Haley now? He's helped Ben reach new heights, as 2014 was easily the best season of Ben's career IMO. He got the ball out quicker consistently better than he ever has, and it was probably his most impressive season in both accuracy and decision making. Tied for the league lead in total passing yards, 32 TDs to 9 INTs, and over 8 YPA. But, bad play in the playoffs plagued him once again. He hasn't won a playoff game in over four years and in that win he had a QB rating of 35.5. The second half of his career has been mired with ugly postseason INTs at bad moments, and last year's quick playoff exit at home against the Ravens was no exception.

5. Andrew Luck - What a freaking football player. Who knew the well spoken, #1 pick from Stanford was such a tough son of a bitch? Total team leader who dragged his, let's be honest now, mediocre at best team to the AFC title game. Played behind a terrible offensive line with no running game, with their version of Mike Wallace (T.Y. Hilton) and a bunch of meh skill players and led the league in TDs. Also notched another road playoff win and two total last year before the rainy disaster in New England. No reason not to expect even bigger and better things from him going forward, and clearly the best young QB in the league.

6. Philip Rivers - Was arguably the MVP of the first half of the season last year and gutted through the second half of the season playing with a back injury. Another guy with not much around him who kept battling and performing at a high level. 31 TDs but 18 INTs . A week 17 road loss in Kansas City kept the Chargers out of the playoffs preventing them from back-to-back appearances.

7. Drew Brees - Age is starting to catch up with Brees but when he's on his game (see the Green Bay and Pittsburgh games last year) there's not many, if any, who are as efficient and productive. Stumbled down the stretch with a couple of surprisingly bad performances, but he's still a damn good QB.

8. Joe Flacco - Playoff stud. Outplayed Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh for another road playoff win, and outplayed Brady in New England (yet again) in a game the Ravens won on the field but lost on the scoreboard. Best long ball and one of the best arms in the league. His playoff run in 2013 was arguably the best QB playoff run/performance ever. Seven career road playoff wins, most ever. He still doesn't show up consistently enough on Sundays to be considered at a higher level, but there's nobody more unflappable in the playoffs. If I'm needing a drive late in a huge game, there's not a QB I trust more at this point to make the plays needed. 24 TDs to 3 INTs in the playoffs going back to 2010. Like Roethlisberger, has never had a losing season.

9. Russell Wilson - Finally got humbled in the NFC Championship game at home against the Packers, where the pressure finally got to him and he threw 4 picks, but threw a beautiful game winner in OT. Was so-so in the SB this year, but of course all that will be remember is the game losing INT. It will be interesting to see if there's any one step back/two steps forward periods going forward as he gets asked to take on more responsibility in their offense. So far he's been hugely efficient and helped guide his team to deep playoff runs in a tough division. Still needs to improve on his decision making in the pocket. Hard to compare with the other top guys given his role.

10. Eli Manning - Just nudges out his big brother for the 10th spot here. OBJ saved his season last year, as that kid already looks like a top 5 WR in the NFL. We all know Eli's problems with accuracy and decision making and talking, but you can't discount what he's done in the past. Outside of the San Francisco game last year he was pretty great in the second half of the season. I expect a big season from him this year. Almost quietly threw for 30 TDs last year and had over a 2:1 TD to INT ratio.

[Obviously]

Ah......

True, but Switz has come around and declared his Steelers fandom with his new moniker "6 Rings."

[bradshaw2ben]

TB: romo played behind an offensive line last year than Ben can only dream of for his entire career and he had even more help from his run game. We've seen what he looks like without those advantages, and it's not good.

Seattle played with two injured secondary guys and lost 3 more during the game. Brady played well but basically Seattle and Wilson did everything to win the game except hand off on the last play.

How do I feel about Haley? He sucks. Still.

Ben had a great season in some respects because he had talent around him in Bell, AB, and the addition of Bryant. If Haley either cuts Dri Archer or God forbid makes him into a contributor, I'll have a higher opinion.

Flacco outplayed Ben, eh? One guy's OL dominated and the other's was bitch slapped. One guy had clutch receivrrs and the other had receivers who couldn't be trusted-- was missing its most physical and dependable interior receiver.

You can talk all you want about ben passing up the flats but the above was where hat game was won and lost.

[Scunge]

You want to know something incredible? I honestly think that Joe Flacco has a chance at surpassing Brett Farve's iron man record of 298 consecutive games played.

Joe Flacco has never missed a game in 7 seasons and has played in all 112 games with 112 games started. Oz/Harbaugh have always believed in a strong OL and they not only will add high draft picks, but also notable free agents. Flacco has had the type of protection that other QBs only dream about and his injury free consecutive games streak reflects that.

I still have a problem with Aaron Rodgers and his ability to come from behind and win a close game. I think that will haunt him and Green Bay for the duration of his career. He is the type of QB that is great at getting out in front and playing with a lead but if the game is close or he is behind he is just not the same. He does not play like an elite QB in those times. You just don't see the clutch ability to come from behind, to have that game winning drive, it is his one achilles heel and the media never talks about it.

4th quarter comebacks for career:
Peyton Manning 41
Tom Brady 35
Eli Manning 26
Ben 25
Dre Brees 25
Phillip Rivers 20
Russell Wison 10
Andy Dalton 9
Andrew Luck 9
Aaron Rodgers 8 WTF?!?

So, okay some might say, hey Scunge, surely Aaron Rogers must have more game winning drives to prove his greatness? Nope.

Game winning drives for career:
Peyton Manning 52
Tom Brady 46
Drew Brees 36
Ben 35
Eli Manning 31
Tony Romo 28
Philip Rivers 23
Russell Wilson 15
Andy Dalton 13
Andrew Luck 12
Aaron Rodgers 12, again WTF?!?

It is very strange that a consensus #1 QB has these two categories staining his otherwise Hall of Fame career. I look at it like this, compare it to track and field. Take the 100 meters. You have some that are great starters, at getting out of the blocks and up to top speed and taking the lead. Then there are some that have that strong finishing kick, that are able to accelerate and are running their fastest at the end of the race. Rodgers lacks that finishing kick.

[V DUB]

You want to know something incredible? I honestly think that Joe Flacco has a chance at surpassing Brett Farve's iron man record of 298 consecutive games played.

Joe Flacco has never missed a game in 7 seasons and has played in all 112 games with 112 games started. Oz/Harbaugh have always believed in a strong OL and they not only will add high draft picks, but also notable free agents. Flacco has had the type of protection that other QBs only dream about and his injury free consecutive games streak reflects that.

I still have a problem with Aaron Rodgers and his ability to come from behind and win a close game. I think that will haunt him and Green Bay for the duration of his career. He is the type of QB that is great at getting out in front and playing with a lead but if the game is close or he is behind he is just not the same. He does not play like an elite QB in those times. You just don't see the clutch ability to come from behind, to have that game winning drive, it is his one achilles heel and the media never talks about it.

4th quarter comebacks for career:
Peyton Manning 41
Tom Brady 35
Eli Manning 26
Ben 25
Dre Brees 25
Phillip Rivers 20
Russell Wison 10
Andy Dalton 9
Andrew Luck 9
Aaron Rodgers 8 WTF?!?

So, okay some might say, hey Scunge, surely Aaron Rogers must have more game winning drives to prove his greatness? Nope.

Game winning drives for career:
Peyton Manning 52
Tom Brady 46
Drew Brees 36
Ben 35
Eli Manning 31
Tony Romo 28
Philip Rivers 23
Russell Wilson 15
Andy Dalton 13
Andrew Luck 12
Aaron Rodgers 12, again WTF?!?

It is very strange that a consensus #1 QB has these two categories staining his otherwise Hall of Fame career. I look at it like this, compare it to track and field. Take the 100 meters. You have some that are great starters, at getting out of the blocks and up to top speed and taking the lead. Then there are some that have that strong finishing kick, that are able to accelerate and are running their fastest at the end of the race. Rodgers lacks that finishing kick.

Good post, don't get me wrong...but there are so many factors hidden that you can't look at the sum to make an accurate decision. Time remaining, defer KO, field position, etc., etc. Rodgers, from what I've seen, doesn't dip into a shell in those moments, it's often factors that are out of his control. Like in XLIII, he could've had damn near a perfect passer rating if not for drops, but as always, it takes more than the throw.

Just saying it's not an infallible measure.

[Scunge]

Rodgers was 24 of 39 for the game, Ben was 25 of 40 and both had dropped passes. In the second half, Rodgers was 13 of 25, 52% and took 3 sacks. He was more hesitant with his throws, more conservative and quite frankly it was his defense that saved the day with that Mendenhal forced fumble and recovery at the Green Bay 38 yard line when the game was 21-17, with 15 minutes left to play. Rodgers has his defense create that turnover and return it 7 yards to set up Rodgers at the 45 yard line.

I wish there was a time machine to enable us to go to an alternate timeline, one where Mendenhal does not fumble and we score a touchdown on that drive and make the game 24-21 with 15 minutes to play. I think in that timeline, in that scenario, Aaron Rodgers loses that game. Ah, what if, what if, damn you Mendenhal!!

[jeemie]

Rodgers was 24 of 39 for the game, Ben was 25 of 40 and both had dropped passes. In the second half, Rodgers was 13 of 25, 52% and took 3 sacks. He was more hesitant with his throws, more conservative and quite frankly it was his defense that saved the day with that Mendenhal forced fumble and recovery at the Green Bay 38 yard line when the game was 21-17, with 15 minutes left to play. Rodgers has his defense create that turnover and return it 7 yards to set up Rodgers at the 45 yard line.

I wish there was a time machine to enable us to go to an alternate timeline, one where Mendenhal does not fumble and we score a touchdown on that drive and make the game 24-21 with 15 minutes to play. I think in that timeline, in that scenario, Aaron Rodgers loses that game. Ah, what if, what if, damn you Mendenhal!!

28-25 and it's third and ten, and Rodgers makes a seam-splitting throw for a 30-yard gain that had to be perfect or else it was going to be incomplete. It just missed the fingertips of two Steeler defenders.

Not like he did nothing to help his team win that game in the second half.

[Scunge]

No, that is true Jeemie, but I guess what bothers me about Rodgers is that unlike a Ben, or Romo or an Andrew Luck, he seems to be unable to win ugly. With Ben he can be sacked 5 times in a game and win. He can throw 2 INTs and win. He can complete less than 60%, less than 50% of his passes and win.

Aaron Rodgers has a 10-18 (.357) record in games that he completes less than 60% of his passes. Ben is 30-28 (.517) in games that he completes less than 60%.

In games that he throws at least 1 interception, Rodgers has a record of 21-25 (.456). Ben has a record of 51-46 (.526) in games that he throws at least one interception.

Both get sacked probably more than any other two QBs in the game. Rodgers has a record of 25-23 (.521) in games where he has been sacked at least 3 times. Ben has a record of 49-38 (.563).

When things are the worst, when you are getting demolished by the pass rush, when you are lucky to complete 50% of your passes, when you have turned the ball over (INTs), most QBs can't overcome that. But Ben manages to have a winning percentage in all three of those scenarios and Rodgers does not. I think that is why Ben has been able to generate 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives in his career and why Rodgers has not to any significant degree. I see Andrew Luck more similar to Ben than Rodgers. Luck can have a bad game, throw 3 INTs, be sacked 5 times and yet still pull out a 4th quarter comeback or game winning drive and steal a win. I just don't see that with Aaron Rodgers.

[stinger8]

Alright, here's my list:

1. Aaron Rodgers - Best in the world, not much more needs to be said.

2. Tom Brady - So yeah, after the balls were deflated and then reinflated he went out against the Seahawks and was 37-50 (74% completion) for 328 yards, and 4 TDs, including an incredibly clutch 11 play 4th quarter drive to re-take the lead late. He was 9-9 on the drive. Haters are out in force this season, mainly people who spent the last decade plus getting beat by the Patriots, but his legacy stands. He's the best/most overall accomplished QB of the modern era and is still playing at a very high level.

3. Tony Romo - The guy only completed 70% of his passes last year, threw 34 TDs to 9 picks, 8.5 YPA, won a road playoff game, and damn near beat Rodgers and the Packers in Green Bay if not for a bogus overturned call on a 31 yard completion down on a fourth down. He was efficient, clutch, accurate... don't see how anyone could not be impressed with his play last year. Deserved the MVP talk he was getting.

4. Ben Roethlisberger - How does everyone feel about Todd Haley now? He's helped Ben reach new heights, as 2014 was easily the best season of Ben's career IMO. He got the ball out quicker consistently better than he ever has, and it was probably his most impressive season in both accuracy and decision making. Tied for the league lead in total passing yards, 32 TDs to 9 INTs, and over 8 YPA. But, bad play in the playoffs plagued him once again. He hasn't won a playoff game in over four years and in that win he had a QB rating of 35.5. The second half of his career has been mired with ugly postseason INTs at bad moments, and last year's quick playoff exit at home against the Ravens was no exception.

5. Andrew Luck - What a freaking football player. Who knew the well spoken, #1 pick from Stanford was such a tough son of a bitch? Total team leader who dragged his, let's be honest now, mediocre at best team to the AFC title game. Played behind a terrible offensive line with no running game, with their version of Mike Wallace (T.Y. Hilton) and a bunch of meh skill players and led the league in TDs. Also notched another road playoff win and two total last year before the rainy disaster in New England. No reason not to expect even bigger and better things from him going forward, and clearly the best young QB in the league.

6. Philip Rivers - Was arguably the MVP of the first half of the season last year and gutted through the second half of the season playing with a back injury. Another guy with not much around him who kept battling and performing at a high level. 31 TDs but 18 INTs . A week 17 road loss in Kansas City kept the Chargers out of the playoffs preventing them from back-to-back appearances.

7. Drew Brees - Age is starting to catch up with Brees but when he's on his game (see the Green Bay and Pittsburgh games last year) there's not many, if any, who are as efficient and productive. Stumbled down the stretch with a couple of surprisingly bad performances, but he's still a damn good QB.

8. Joe Flacco - Playoff stud. Outplayed Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh for another road playoff win, and outplayed Brady in New England (yet again) in a game the Ravens won on the field but lost on the scoreboard. Best long ball and one of the best arms in the league. His playoff run in 2013 was arguably the best QB playoff run/performance ever. Seven career road playoff wins, most ever. He still doesn't show up consistently enough on Sundays to be considered at a higher level, but there's nobody more unflappable in the playoffs. If I'm needing a drive late in a huge game, there's not a QB I trust more at this point to make the plays needed. 24 TDs to 3 INTs in the playoffs going back to 2010. Like Roethlisberger, has never had a losing season.

9. Russell Wilson - Finally got humbled in the NFC Championship game at home against the Packers, where the pressure finally got to him and he threw 4 picks, but threw a beautiful game winner in OT. Was so-so in the SB this year, but of course all that will be remember is the game losing INT. It will be interesting to see if there's any one step back/two steps forward periods going forward as he gets asked to take on more responsibility in their offense. So far he's been hugely efficient and helped guide his team to deep playoff runs in a tough division. Still needs to improve on his decision making in the pocket. Hard to compare with the other top guys given his role.

10. Eli Manning - Just nudges out his big brother for the 10th spot here. OBJ saved his season last year, as that kid already looks like a top 5 WR in the NFL. We all know Eli's problems with accuracy and decision making and talking, but you can't discount what he's done in the past. Outside of the San Francisco game last year he was pretty great in the second half of the season. I expect a big season from him this year. Almost quietly threw for 30 TDs last year and had over a 2:1 TD to INT ratio.

I have been and remain a Ben is a very very good QB BUT not the hero/saviour some people on this site proclaim. Opinions we all are entitled to. I am happy we have #7, but some of his warts will always rankle me. He does not in my opinion work hard at his craft (physically or mentally), and taking sacks he can avoid drives me fuckin crazy. Having said that the above list is spot on and a number 4 ranking is very accurate when you factor in everything including winning big games in the last 5 years. Great post above.

[Havoc]

Alright, here's my list:

1. Aaron Rodgers - Best in the world, not much more needs to be said.

2. Tom Brady - So yeah, after the balls were deflated and then reinflated he went out against the Seahawks and was 37-50 (74% completion) for 328 yards, and 4 TDs, including an incredibly clutch 11 play 4th quarter drive to re-take the lead late. He was 9-9 on the drive. Haters are out in force this season, mainly people who spent the last decade plus getting beat by the Patriots, but his legacy stands. He's the best/most overall accomplished QB of the modern era and is still playing at a very high level.

3. Tony Romo - The guy only completed 70% of his passes last year, threw 34 TDs to 9 picks, 8.5 YPA, won a road playoff game, and damn near beat Rodgers and the Packers in Green Bay if not for a bogus overturned call on a 31 yard completion down on a fourth down. He was efficient, clutch, accurate... don't see how anyone could not be impressed with his play last year. Deserved the MVP talk he was getting.

4. Ben Roethlisberger - How does everyone feel about Todd Haley now? He's helped Ben reach new heights, as 2014 was easily the best season of Ben's career IMO. He got the ball out quicker consistently better than he ever has, and it was probably his most impressive season in both accuracy and decision making. Tied for the league lead in total passing yards, 32 TDs to 9 INTs, and over 8 YPA. But, bad play in the playoffs plagued him once again. He hasn't won a playoff game in over four years and in that win he had a QB rating of 35.5. The second half of his career has been mired with ugly postseason INTs at bad moments, and last year's quick playoff exit at home against the Ravens was no exception.

5. Andrew Luck - What a freaking football player. Who knew the well spoken, #1 pick from Stanford was such a tough son of a bitch? Total team leader who dragged his, let's be honest now, mediocre at best team to the AFC title game. Played behind a terrible offensive line with no running game, with their version of Mike Wallace (T.Y. Hilton) and a bunch of meh skill players and led the league in TDs. Also notched another road playoff win and two total last year before the rainy disaster in New England. No reason not to expect even bigger and better things from him going forward, and clearly the best young QB in the league.

6. Philip Rivers - Was arguably the MVP of the first half of the season last year and gutted through the second half of the season playing with a back injury. Another guy with not much around him who kept battling and performing at a high level. 31 TDs but 18 INTs . A week 17 road loss in Kansas City kept the Chargers out of the playoffs preventing them from back-to-back appearances.

7. Drew Brees - Age is starting to catch up with Brees but when he's on his game (see the Green Bay and Pittsburgh games last year) there's not many, if any, who are as efficient and productive. Stumbled down the stretch with a couple of surprisingly bad performances, but he's still a damn good QB.

8. Joe Flacco - Playoff stud. Outplayed Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh for another road playoff win, and outplayed Brady in New England (yet again) in a game the Ravens won on the field but lost on the scoreboard. Best long ball and one of the best arms in the league. His playoff run in 2013 was arguably the best QB playoff run/performance ever. Seven career road playoff wins, most ever. He still doesn't show up consistently enough on Sundays to be considered at a higher level, but there's nobody more unflappable in the playoffs. If I'm needing a drive late in a huge game, there's not a QB I trust more at this point to make the plays needed. 24 TDs to 3 INTs in the playoffs going back to 2010. Like Roethlisberger, has never had a losing season.

9. Russell Wilson - Finally got humbled in the NFC Championship game at home against the Packers, where the pressure finally got to him and he threw 4 picks, but threw a beautiful game winner in OT. Was so-so in the SB this year, but of course all that will be remember is the game losing INT. It will be interesting to see if there's any one step back/two steps forward periods going forward as he gets asked to take on more responsibility in their offense. So far he's been hugely efficient and helped guide his team to deep playoff runs in a tough division. Still needs to improve on his decision making in the pocket. Hard to compare with the other top guys given his role.

10. Eli Manning - Just nudges out his big brother for the 10th spot here. OBJ saved his season last year, as that kid already looks like a top 5 WR in the NFL. We all know Eli's problems with accuracy and decision making and talking, but you can't discount what he's done in the past. Outside of the San Francisco game last year he was pretty great in the second half of the season. I expect a big season from him this year. Almost quietly threw for 30 TDs last year and had over a 2:1 TD to INT ratio.

I have been and remain a Ben is a very very good QB BUT not the hero/saviour some people on this site proclaim. Opinions we all are entitled to. I am happy we have #7, but some of his warts will always rankle me. He does not in my opinion work hard at his craft (physically or mentally), and taking sacks he can avoid drives me fuckin crazy. Having said that the above list is spot on and a number 4 ranking is very accurate when you factor in everything including winning big games in the last 5 years. Great post above.

Ben was sacked 5 more times than Rodgers last year.

In 2012 Rodgers was sacked more than any qb in league... 21 more times than Ben.

You can't have it both ways. Playmaking requires holding onto the football.

If you want to watch a sterile boring qb, watch Tom Brady.

Ben's game is evolving with age, and it needs to. I think he is working hard at expanding his game.

[jeemie]

No, that is true Jeemie, but I guess what bothers me about Rodgers is that unlike a Ben, or Romo or an Andrew Luck, he seems to be unable to win ugly. With Ben he can be sacked 5 times in a game and win. He can throw 2 INTs and win. He can complete less than 60%, less than 50% of his passes and win.

Aaron Rodgers has a 10-18 (.357) record in games that he completes less than 60% of his passes. Ben is 30-28 (.517) in games that he completes less than 60%.

In games that he throws at least 1 interception, Rodgers has a record of 21-25 (.456). Ben has a record of 51-46 (.526) in games that he throws at least one interception.

Both get sacked probably more than any other two QBs in the game. Rodgers has a record of 25-23 (.521) in games where he has been sacked at least 3 times. Ben has a record of 49-38 (.563).

When things are the worst, when you are getting demolished by the pass rush, when you are lucky to complete 50% of your passes, when you have turned the ball over (INTs), most QBs can't overcome that. But Ben manages to have a winning percentage in all three of those scenarios and Rodgers does not. I think that is why Ben has been able to generate 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives in his career and why Rodgers has not to any significant degree. I see Andrew Luck more similar to Ben than Rodgers. Luck can have a bad game, throw 3 INTs, be sacked 5 times and yet still pull out a 4th quarter comeback or game winning drive and steal a win. I just don't see that with Aaron Rodgers.

Rodgers is a perfect example about why we should be leery about drawing conclusions from stats, though, and why there really may be no such thing as "clutch".

Given the amount of "franchise quarterbacks" (maybe guys that throw for 4,800+ yards, and 25+ TDs nowadays), the odds are good that there will be at least one of them that has stat lines that look like what Rodgers' looks like in games where that QB's team is behind late in games.

[bradshaw2ben]

bullshit argument Jeemie-- reversion to the mean? Not good for analyzing an individual, only a large group.

I think the entire collection of stats pretty shows the deal. It doesn't account for GB's loss to Seattle exactly, although Rodgers generally does not play as well when he's behind and it probably contributes to his relative lack of championship success, despite good talent around him, great coaching, and great defenses.

Flacco is a good bet to make that ironman record, because he would rather dump it down on 4th and 28 with the season on the line rather than take a hit to make a play. Favre doing it, considering his style-- amazing. If Flacco breaks that record it will be a travesty.

[bradshaw2ben]

Jeemie-- did you watch Terry Bradshaw's/Joe Montana's careers or are you too young for that?

clutch most definitely exists, and anyone who's played competitive sports understands what it means. It may be an overused term but there is clearly a difference in performance in stressful situations between even most talented athletes/performers.

[jeemie]

Jeemie-- did you watch Terry Bradshaw's/Joe Montana's careers or are you too young for that?

clutch most definitely exists, and anyone who's played competitive sports understands what it means. It may be an overused term but there is clearly a difference in performance in stressful situations between even most talented athletes/performers.

OK- there may be a thing as clutch- but you can't use stats to make that argument is all I am saying.

[jeemie]

bullshit argument Jeemie-- reversion to the mean? Not good for analyzing an individual, only a large group.

I think the entire collection of stats pretty shows the deal. It doesn't account for GB's loss to Seattle exactly, although Rodgers generally does not play as well when he's behind and it probably contributes to his relative lack of championship success, despite good talent around him, great coaching, and great defenses.

Flacco is a good bet to make that ironman record, because he would rather dump it down on 4th and 28 with the season on the line rather than take a hit to make a play. Favre doing it, considering his style-- amazing. If Flacco breaks that record it will be a travesty.

I was talking about a large group...the group of "franchise QBs".

It would not be surprising to find one that has "bad stats" when trailing late in games.

That someone just happens to be Aaron Rodgers.

Now- maybe he really DOES have a poor performance level when trailing late in games...but stats alone don't prove it.

[bradshaw2ben]

Stats don't prove anything-- but they do support the position that Manning sucks in the postseason, Brady primarily dinks and dunks with deflated balls that reduce fumbling, Flacco had one great run and a lot of mediocrity, Rodgers is a frontrunner who has won less with more than Ben for most of his career, and Ben is a real outlier in pressure performance and adverse conditions/situations.