I was wrong about Lamar Jackson

[tbsteel]

I think I compared that QB draft class to the '99 NFL Draft QB class, and remember laughing when the Ravens traded back up in the first to draft Lamar Jackson.

He's Michael Vick redux. Will he ever be a top level passer? No. Will it matter for the next 5-8 years as long as his legs stay healthy? No, not really. He's one of the most amazing athletes to ever play the QB position, and with that front office and that coaching staff? I'm not ready to hand over the division to them for the next decade, but GD I'm close to IT.

Steelers #1 need for next year and the future is QB. Mason ain't the next guy and Ben is probably done as a top QB being a soon to be 38 year old QB (who has been hit and hurt as much as a 50 year old QB) with a non-contact serious wear and tear injury to his throwing elbow. The Steelers not trading down and not trying to accumulate draft picks in future years will ultimately be a mistake IMO. They had to do the Minkah trade, but the focus now should be trying to accumulate ammo to get the next guy.

[K_C_]

Jeemie should have started this thread title. He had plenty to say to me last year when Jackson struggled in his first playoff game.

Oh and I’m far from ready to say Rudolph ain’t the guy.

[El Kabong]

I still say QB's don't win super bowls with their legs, they win them with their arms. When Jackson becomes a top flight passer, let me know.

[BethlehemSteel]

where is that blue ball horn blower?

[LakecrestSteeler]

I think I compared that QB draft class to the '99 NFL Draft QB class, and remember laughing when the Ravens traded back up in the first to draft Lamar Jackson.

He's Michael Vick redux. Will he ever be a top level passer? No. Will it matter for the next 5-8 years as long as his legs stay healthy? No, not really. He's one of the most amazing athletes to ever play the QB position, and with that front office and that coaching staff? I'm not ready to hand over the division to them for the next decade, but GD I'm close to IT.

Steelers #1 need for next year and the future is QB. Mason ain't the next guy and Ben is probably done as a top QB being a soon to be 38 year old QB (who has been hit and hurt as much as a 50 year old QB) with a non-contact serious wear and tear injury to his throwing elbow. The Steelers not trading down and not trying to accumulate draft picks in future years will ultimately be a mistake IMO. They had to do the Minkah trade, but the focus now should be trying to accumulate ammo to get the next guy.

I will wait until we play them again before I even come close to agreeing to this assessment.

[R_S]

RG3 was pretty badass his first couple years. Lamar has looked good. But shit could blow up FAST. Gotta shut down Ingram and force Lamar into 3rd and longs.

[LakecrestSteeler]

RG3 was pretty badass his first couple years. Lamar has looked good. But shit could blow up FAST. Gotta shut down Ingram and force Lamar into 3rd and longs.

It is all about the knees.

[Rod & Wire Mill]

Wrong about him? I’m not.

[Steelperch]

Colbert scouted the fuck out of Lamar Jackson. He was in the press box at Louisville watching him 3 years in a row, I bet he’s kicking himself a bit for passing on him. I’ll be wrong about LJ if he doesn’t suffer a catastrophic injury in the next two years.

[Stlcrtn1974]

Over the last 35 years, I have seen these flash in the pan players. In fact, many here including me, rooted for one in 97. For some reason, athletic/running qb's seem to always fail in the end. Maybe LJ will be the exception, but I'm willing to bet he won't.

[RemoAZ]

I think the most impressive thing about that team is how Harbaugh has adjusted the game plan to make them successful again. They've changed a ton on both sides of the ball. As far as Jackson goes, I just can't see a QB excelling taking the hits he will running the ball so much. The position is just too important to allow your QB be involved in that much contact. They better have a damn good back up ready to go.

[jmacinwbp]

Given the time Colbert spent scouting him, I briefly imagined he was going to be our pick in 2018. There were some whispers of the Steelers interest.

The thing is I don't see Jackson taking the hits you would expect from a QB running as much as he does. It's infuriating as a Steelers fan. Vick & Griffin were definitely taking hits you knew were not going to be conducive to a long & prosperous QB career.

Maybe he has that Franco knack to avoid the killer hits, or it could be the rule changes in the last 5 yrs or so to enhance player safety have finally made the game a place where a talented running QB can survive the Long haul. Either way it's not good news for the rest of us in the North.

[El Kabong]

Given the time Colbert spent scouting him, I briefly imagined he was going to be our pick in 2018. There were some whispers of the Steelers interest.

The thing is I don't see Jackson taking the hits you would expect from a QB running as much as he does. It's infuriating as a Steelers fan. Vick & Griffin were definitely taking hits you knew were not going to be conducive to a long & prosperous QB career.

Maybe he has that Franco knack to avoid the killer hits, or it could be the rule changes in the last 5 yrs or so to enhance player safety have finally made the game a place where a talented running QB can survive the Long haul. Either way it's not good news for the rest of us in the North.

We'll see. We played him pretty well last time, and our D is starting to look killer.

[steelheadtrout]

Well, here's a breathless opinion:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... s-nfl-wrap

[Baltostiller]

Well, here's a breathless opinion:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... s-nfl-wrap

Sorry, Randall Cunningham was better in a much tougher era. Jackson's "spin" can't carry the Cunningham move against the Giants when he was nearly knocked off his feet by Carl Banks and completed the TD pass. What happened to RC again??

[Jobu]

Well, here's a breathless opinion:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... s-nfl-wrap

I wonder if that guy ejaculated as he wrote that article. I had to stop after just a few sentences, it was so sappy. Creepy...

[Rod & Wire Mill]

Over the last 35 years, I have seen these flash in the pan players. In fact, many here including me, rooted for one in 97. For some reason, athletic/running qb's seem to always fail in the end. Maybe LJ will be the exception, but I'm willing to bet he won't.

Remember watching Roman Gabriel, Jim Plunkett, Fran Tarkington, Doug Flutie? There have always been big, tough guys. And scramblers. Now it’s about the flavor of the season, if not the month. Now that Ben, Phil, Eli, and even the god-like Tammy are the waning gibbous, they’ve been selling this kid vs. Mahomes the last two years. There’s no bidness like show bidness. That’s entertainment. Let’s see it play out. Mahomes already got “strike one”.

[Quixotic]

In college and for a lot of his NFL career, Michael Vick was one of the most amazing athletes I have ever watched. And yet, I don’t recall Atlanta running the table. The one year I do remember their being special, they had a great power running game and (Dan Reeves, right?) as their head coach.

I have heard commentators saying that Lamar Jackson’s running like a running back gives defensive coordinators one more thing to account for. To the contrary, I would suggest that Lamar Jackson’s passing like a running back (Antwan Randel El was a better passer…so was Hines Ward) gives defensive coordinators one LESS thing to account for. Not sure it will take a full season for DCs to figure Lamar Jackson out.

Bellicheat will stop him by spying him with a safety who was a lacross player last season.

[Pabst]

Recently saw this comparison on twitter: http://pfref.com/tiny/3T4Ez

I know there are other factors involved and it's worth taking with a huge grain of salt.....but the raw stats comparing Tyrod Taylor's first 2 seasons as a starter with Jackson are uncanny.

[stillthere]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1A4xdFxVgE[/youtube]

That's Good Sports
Russell Wilson or Lamar Jackson MVP? Seahawks MNF Win

[jeemie]

He's been good this year but way too early to crown his ass.

In fact, since I see he's still got @K_C_ 's ringing endorsement?

That's how I'm confident he is a flash in the pan.

[Scunge]

Well, the accumulating future picks may happen and sooner than you think.

That 2016 draft class of Artie Burns, Sean Davis and Javon Hargarve may all leave in free agency.

Then who knows, perhaps Bud Dupree leaves as well in free agency.

Hargrave and Dupree could both sign monster deals, talking $50+ million for Hargrave and Dupree maybe $65+ million? Throw in Burns and Davis getting more modest deals and the fact that we don't have the money to sign anybody in free agency and we may get a nice comp pick haul in 2021.

Say that 2021 draft looks like this:

1
2
3
3 comp pick
4
4 comp pick

Then say they find a QB they really love and package those picks and say a future pick from 2022 and move into the top 5-10 to take their QB of the future.

It could happen. We are not necessarily stuck with Mason as our QB of the future, anything could happen.

That 2021 season could be this at QB:

1 Ben (playing his final season)
2 Mason (experienced #2 backup QB)
3 Stud high first round Rookie QB ('the Heir' to Big Ben)

[swissvale72]

Here's what I know...

*Every time we needs those fucker to lose (at Seattle, Patriots), they win.

*Every time the opposition needs to stop that fuck, they don't.

Half of my prediction came true. Steelers ARE 5-4. Ravens though, are NOT. They remain two games ahead, and coming down the stretch, we might actually be rooting FOR them, like against the Bills. And...this weekend against the Texans, def SBI for Ravens to lose, but should they win, as I suspect they will...diminishes the Texans some....so modified SBI.

[Scunge]

Too true, and at other times the Ravens will surprise and lose games they shouldn't.

These next 4 games are going to be interesting for both the Ravens and Steelers.

Steelers play @ Clev, @Cincy, home for Clev and then @ Arizona

Ravens are home for the Texans, @ Rams, home for 49ers, and then @ Bills

Could the Ravens lose 2 of those 4??

Could the Steelers win 4 of 4?? 3 of 4??

Call me crazy but I am not ready to give up the division just yet.

[franco32]

The OP wasn't wrong about Jackson. He will be exposed one way or another. His frame is not the biggest. He will take a huge hit at some point which will slow him down. Then, he has to rely on his passing.

I agree with Scunge that we still have a shot at the division, but this Thursday is absolutely crucial. Road divisional game is massive given its tie break implications. I'm not that confident because the Browns will be fired up. It is their Super Bowl. After the Bills win, they are now delusional enough to think they can run the table. Make no mistake, we have to bring our A game. If we bring the slop with drops, penalties, etc., we will not overcome that.

[anpsteel]

To me, Lamar Jackson is a bigger - maybe slightly more accurate- Kordell Stewart.

Kordell first few seasons he was on fire, but once teams figured out how to beat him, he became a wildly inaccurate turnover machine.

I don't expect much different from LJ. Of course, I could be wrong, if he works on mechanics and learns to throw from the pocket.

IIRC, his issues at the scouting combines was accuracy from the pocket-

And you saw what the Steelers did to him- they spied him at all times, played predominantly zone coverage and used their front (which had Tuitt) to completely collapse the pocket.

Side note: I feel like the Patriots "gamed" the Ravens on that loss. I'm not saying they threw the game, but I feel like Belichick knows they'll likely see the Ravens in the playoffs- and they didn't show their "true" defensive scheme. There were waaay too many instances where NE seemingly didn't have a spy on Jackson to be a mistake- and that isn't something I find hard to fathom from a Belichick D.

[K_C_]

He's been good this year but way too early to crown his ass.

In fact, since I see he's still got @K_C_ 's ringing endorsement?

That's how I'm confident he is a flash in the pan.

I tried to warn you during last year's playoffs it's too early to write this kid off.

Said his passing would most certainly improve (pssst...it has improved, significantly) and with his athletic ability, Jackson would end up being a major problem for us.

Glad you now know how stupid your statements were.

[Baltostiller]

Jackson is listed at 6'2" 212 and Stewart was listed at 6'1"218 so there ain't much difference. LJ's passing form the pocket is still scattershot. The plays that he makes are when he breaks contain and is a huge threat to run. So far, LJ has managed to slip the big hits when he runs. Will he be able to continue this. He is a skinny guy who could get broken in half on any given run. RGIII is the exact same size and everyone remembers what happened to him. Finally, Randall Cunningham is the best athlete I ever saw play QB. In 1990 he threw for 3500 yards and ran for 950 running a pro style offense. Put him in the High School offense that the Rats run now and he would put up huge numbers...before he eventually gets lit up.

[Quixotic]

Jackson is listed at 6'2" 212 and Stewart was listed at 6'1"218 so there ain't much difference. LJ's passing form the pocket is still scattershot. The plays that he makes are when he breaks contain and is a huge threat to run. So far, LJ has managed to slip the big hits when he runs. Will he be able to continue this. He is a skinny guy who could get broken in half on any given run. RGIII is the exact same size and everyone remembers what happened to him. Finally, Randall Cunningham is the best athlete I ever saw play QB. In 1990 he threw for 3500 yards and ran for 950 running a pro style offense. Put him in the High School offense that the Rats run now and he would put up huge numbers...before he eventually gets lit up.

Yeah. Randall Cunningham was a REAL NFL quarterback. Could win the Michael Vick way, or he could stand in the pocket and win the John Unitas way. As an all-round athlete, I’d still take Vick (who could easily have been a wide receiver, corner, or running back). But a LOT of guys were better suited to be NFL quarterbacks (including one or two of Vick’s own teammates).

[jeemie]

He's been good this year but way too early to crown his ass.

In fact, since I see he's still got @K_C_ 's ringing endorsement?

That's how I'm confident he is a flash in the pan.

I tried to warn you during last year's playoffs it's too early to write this kid off.

Said his passing would most certainly improve (pssst...it has improved, significantly) and with his athletic ability, Jackson would end up being a major problem for us.

Glad you now know how stupid your statements were.

I'm sure I will...