Most surprising issue of the day?

[Steelersfan]

Pick your favorite/worrisome/suprising issue of the day and discuss.

1-The "elephant in the room"; M Bryant being non-existent and not looking like our offensive saviour.
2-McDonald TE dropping a one and only perfect pass.
3-OC Todd's insistence on plays short of the sticks.
4- OC Todd's draw for a yard on 3rd and 25.
5-Bengals scoring, nadda, zilch, nothing, zero.
6-Bengals little RED tossing 4 picks.
7-Ravens "D" holding the Bengals to Zero.
8-Almost forgot, Todd's """20""", three yard screens to start the game.
9-Ben being Cleveland's all time winning QB.
10-The Browns finally finding a QB after 27 tries.

Mine has to be Bryant. I'm gonna give him another game or two, but he certainly didn't seem to to be the offensive saviour or to even make a small case for getting rid of Coates or Ayers being a good move. It better be a bad case of rust, because it wasn't very pretty.

[Steelperch]

I'm still trying to decipher Todd Haley's decision to counter two deep Safetys by going empty back field and throwing instead of running the football behind a $100 million o line and All Pro RB.

[Legacy User]

That the Browns are actually going to be good especially after they get Myles Garrett back.

[R_S]

Todd toiled for months with late night brainstorming and calculations to come up with the perfect script of plays to open up the season.....4 straight wide receiver screens......He is the greatest mind of our era.

[Orangesteel]

The Ben being the winningest QB in Browns history is goddam hilarious.

The first offensive series still has me red. It took a damn while for the O to start clicking, and they never really looked that good all day, but that goddamn series is symbolic of why I'm sick of this coaching staff.

What did the steelers defense do, on the road, during the first two Browns series. Blocked punt for score and another three in out where I think the browns lost a total of 30 yards. Backwards 30 or so yards.

That is some crazy good momentum. But Haley and Tomlin don't build off of momentum. They don't adjust, they don't use that incredible defensive effort the first two series to end the damn game before it even starts. Instead, they stick to this dumbfuckey game plan, multiple WR screens within a yard of the LOS where all of these fast skill position guys are being forced to block their asses off and not hold for what, maybe 3-4 yards? And multiple throws like that on the same fucking drive???

So we then look like the damn idiots and give the ball back, Kizer shows some poise and all of a sudden CLE is scoring and nobody even remembers the fact that we blocked a damn punt for a TD on the first defensive series of the season. Yawn.

I just don't get Tomlin and Haley. I don't get their decision making, I don't get their relationship, I don't get their thought processes, I don't get their motivation, I don't get the direction they want to see this offense go.

All I know is I saw DeShone Kizer being allowed to throw downfield well before Ben was. Awesome. Another season of this?

[Minkah'n History]

Todd toiled for months with late night brainstorming and calculations to come up with the perfect script of plays to open up the season.....4 straight wide receiver screens......He is the greatest mind of our era.

RS, I agree.

TH starting the game with 4....yes 4 bubble screens in a row has to be the least imaginative, suprising, bunch of bs you will ever see to start a game, even from him.

[StillerDownSouth]

I'm still trying to decipher Todd Haley's decision to counter two deep Safetys by going empty back field and throwing instead of running the football behind a $100 million o line and All Pro RB.

My thoughts exactly. Whats wrong with running an offense like KC or Dallas. Its ok to still run the ball when you have the horses to do it. Play action is still a non factor in our offense. But of course everyone bitched last year when we played in cleveland and ran it down their throat all game cause haley never got ben jn a rythem.

[Minkah'n History]

I'm still trying to decipher Todd Haley's decision to counter two deep Safetys by going empty back field and throwing instead of running the football behind a $100 million o line and All Pro RB.

My thoughts exactly. Whats wrong with running an offense like KC or Dallas. Its ok to still run the ball when you have the horses to do it. Play action is still a non factor in our offense. But of course everyone bitched last year when we played in cleveland and ran it down their throat all game cause haley never got ben jn a rythem.

What's PA?

How can we never run fucking PA? Like nonexistent

[StillerDownSouth]

I somewhat expected the Steelers to struggle on O early because lack of game reps together and Bell not being in football shape, figured they would eventually start clicking but seemed to be running in quicksand all game. Some was penalties putting them behind the sticks a lot, but a lot is also on Haley, who at this point might be the worst o-coordinator in the league.

[stairway 2 seven]

We made Kizer look good today with the tackle the catch defense butler employed. Guarantee he looks like a rookie when he faces a dc for a team that knows what hes doing.

[bradshaw2ben]

I'm still trying to decipher Todd Haley's decision to counter two deep Safetys by going empty back field and throwing instead of running the football behind a $100 million o line and All Pro RB.

The two safeties were back, but the other 9 guys were in the box and or mugging the receivers. The counter to that D is attacking the intermediate middle of the field-- Todd Haley doesn't know that part of the stadium exists and, even if he did, our interior receivers couldn't beat press coverage if their lives depended on it.

[DP39]

I'm happy with the win and haven't read many of the comments, but is anyone talking about Ben NOT being very accurate with his short to intermediate passes? It's been a problem for a few years it seems. I'm getting tired of seeing rookie (not to mention below average ones) having little problem placing those types of passes where they need to be most of the time when Ben is below the line a lot of the time. I'm starting to get tired of giving him a pass...no pun intended.

[bradshaw2ben]

Todd toiled for months with late night brainstorming and calculations to come up with the perfect script of plays to open up the season.....4 straight wide receiver screens......He is the greatest mind of our era.

RS, I agree.

TH starting the game with 4....yes 4 bubble screens in a row has to be the least imaginative, suprising, bunch of bs you will ever see to start a game, even from him.

to be fair, the next set of plays were a pass 2 yds down field, two runs up the gut, another WR screen, and another 1 yd downfield pass, two of which were negated by penalty.

[FortyThree]

I'm happy with the win and haven't read many of the comments, but is anyone talking about Ben NOT being very accurate with his short to intermediate passes? It's been a problem for a few years it seems. I'm getting tired of seeing rookie (not to mention below average ones) having little problem placing those types of passes where they need to be most of the time when Ben is below the line a lot of the time. I'm starting to get tired of giving him a pass...no pun intended.

Ben's road struggles almost always seem to be because they open the games with the "clenched asshole offense" where they're terrified to do anything that might lead to a mistake. In games when they let Ben sling the ball early he doesn't seem to have those accuracy issues. It's almost as if when asking Ben to go against his instincts and get rid of the ball quickly that he needs to get into a rhythm to keep his mechanics from betraying him.

[bradshaw2ben]

I'm happy with the win and haven't read many of the comments, but is anyone talking about Ben NOT being very accurate with his short to intermediate passes? It's been a problem for a few years it seems. I'm getting tired of seeing rookie (not to mention below average ones) having little problem placing those types of passes where they need to be most of the time when Ben is below the line a lot of the time. I'm starting to get tired of giving him a pass...no pun intended.

we can argue about the reasons for this (OL getting walked backwards into the throwing lanes, for instance) but can you imagine taking just about the best intermediate zone thrower in the history of the game and building an offense that forces him to make throws that he is the least good at?

[Havoc]

The first offensive series still has me red.

I was disgusted. So was the guy on my left at the Steelers sports bar.

I can't stand chickenshit coaching. Haley waved the white flag on that first series when it became 1st and 18 from our own 18.

[tbsteel]

How many times was Ben under center today? Is that part of some deal he's worked out with the coaching staff? He'll give 'em three more years, but only if he doesn't have to expend the energy in bending over for a snap and doing a dropback? There was no balance to the offense, no surprise, and when the execution was as bas as it was today, you're going to get what you saw on the field.

Martavis Bryant must be in his softer, post-rehab, self-discovery stage. He has played like a scared bitch the entire preseason and today. I miss the Alien.

A lot of the guys who either didn't play or didn't play much during the preseason looked off. Ben was off on several throws, especially early on, Maurkice Pouncey got his ass kicked pretty much any time we tried to run the ball, Bell was far from his usual self. AB didn't play much during the preseason but, well, he's AB. He doesn't figure into the equation.

Jesse James juked a guy and forced a miss tackle. A career first.

I bet Tomlin pokes and prods at Bell all next week. "Hey Lev, you still got it?" "Hey Lev, you know ankle weights are just for training, not for games." "Hey Lev, you see what Skip Bayless said about you this morning?" All said with a cocksure smile. I'm looking forward to a pissed off, highly motivated Bell next Sunday.

The Tuitt injury is a bummer, but thankfully Alualu is damn solid. We can be fine with him, Heyward, and the Gravedigger. The rest of that group needs to stay healthy though.

They didn't move any bodies up front today, but I'm thankful for the line we've got. I'll take pockets like what we had today all season. Watching Wilson and Rodgers scramble for their lives every other play today made me especially grateful for the group we've got and Munchak at the helm.

[DP39]

I'm happy with the win and haven't read many of the comments, but is anyone talking about Ben NOT being very accurate with his short to intermediate passes? It's been a problem for a few years it seems. I'm getting tired of seeing rookie (not to mention below average ones) having little problem placing those types of passes where they need to be most of the time when Ben is below the line a lot of the time. I'm starting to get tired of giving him a pass...no pun intended.

we can argue about the reasons for this (OL getting walked backwards into the throwing lanes, for instance) but can you imagine taking just about the best intermediate zone thrower in the history of the game and building an offense that forces him to make throws that he is the least good at?

My guess is the all 22 would show that much of the time on passes within 10 yards of the LOS that Ben is below the line on, is just that...on Ben. I like how he said during camp he likes to make off target throws to his receivers so he can test/improve their catch radius, but I personally think he's masking his f ups a lot of the time. I'm tired of a dump off pass to the RB in the flat where he's open but Ben puts the ball behind him and he has to twist or spin just to make the catch slowing him down to get up field faster which causes him to get tackled earlier. Or hitting a wide open TE crossing the short middle Behind his back shoulder where he has to fight just to make the catch thus slowing him down to run after the fluidly. Elite QBs make those passes in their sleep. I'm ok with occasional mistake, but Ben has many more than other elite QBs imo. I'm a huge Ben fan, but also refuse to where Ben/homer glasses. Just be clear, I'm talking about those passes where it's fairly obvious to the eye that nothing from the D side of the ball is causing those less than accurate throws.

[Legacy User]

Pick your favorite/worrisome/suprising issue of the day and discuss.

1-The "elephant in the room"; M Bryant being non-existent and not looking like our offensive saviour.
2-McDonald TE dropping a one and only perfect pass.
3-OC Todd's insistence on plays short of the sticks.
4- OC Todd's draw for a yard on 3rd and 25.
5-Bengals scoring, nadda, zilch, nothing, zero.
6-Bengals little RED tossing 4 picks.
7-Ravens "D" holding the Bengals to Zero.
8-Almost forgot, Todd's """20""", three yard screens to start the game.
9-Ben being Cleveland's all time winning QB.
10-The Browns finally finding a QB after 27 tries.

Mine has to be Bryant. I'm gonna give him another game or two, but he certainly didn't seem to to be the offensive saviour or to even make a small case for getting rid of Coates or Ayers being a good move. It better be a bad case of rust, because it wasn't very pretty.

I think most of those other things will take care of themselves to a large degree. The fact is as Haley goes hostory has shown hes capable of much worse.

This team has ZERO shot at a Lombardi as long as hes in Pittsburgh without literally lightninig in a bottle luck.

[Legacy User]

I'm happy with the win and haven't read many of the comments, but is anyone talking about Ben NOT being very accurate with his short to intermediate passes? It's been a problem for a few years it seems. I'm getting tired of seeing rookie (not to mention below average ones) having little problem placing those types of passes where they need to be most of the time when Ben is below the line a lot of the time. I'm starting to get tired of giving him a pass...no pun intended.

we can argue about the reasons for this (OL getting walked backwards into the throwing lanes, for instance) but can you imagine taking just about the best intermediate zone thrower in the history of the game and building an offense that forces him to make throws that he is the least good at?

Exactly.

[Legacy User]

The most surprising issue was that the game turned on and was decided by splash plays by three melanin-deficient linebackers.

[jeemie]

I'm happy with the win and haven't read many of the comments, but is anyone talking about Ben NOT being very accurate with his short to intermediate passes? It's been a problem for a few years it seems. I'm getting tired of seeing rookie (not to mention below average ones) having little problem placing those types of passes where they need to be most of the time when Ben is below the line a lot of the time. I'm starting to get tired of giving him a pass...no pun intended.

we can argue about the reasons for this (OL getting walked backwards into the throwing lanes, for instance) but can you imagine taking just about the best intermediate zone thrower in the history of the game and building an offense that forces him to make throws that he is the least good at?

Whatever.

Ben is a HoF'er.

He can make the goddam throws.

[Legacy User]

I'm happy with the win and haven't read many of the comments, but is anyone talking about Ben NOT being very accurate with his short to intermediate passes? It's been a problem for a few years it seems. I'm getting tired of seeing rookie (not to mention below average ones) having little problem placing those types of passes where they need to be most of the time when Ben is below the line a lot of the time. I'm starting to get tired of giving him a pass...no pun intended.

we can argue about the reasons for this (OL getting walked backwards into the throwing lanes, for instance) but can you imagine taking just about the best intermediate zone thrower in the history of the game and building an offense that forces him to make throws that he is the least good at?

Whatever.

Ben is a HoF'er.

He can make the goddam throws.

This is what is so fkn maddening with this horizontal shit, that and that along with the running game every defender is pulled up tight and close to the line of scrimmage and we continue to do what we do. FFS.

[Donnie Brasco]

This is what is so fkn maddening with this horizontal shit, that and that along with the running game every defender is pulled up tight and close to the line of scrimmage and we continue to do what we do. FFS.

To add onto that- Ben is a better down the field thrower (probably the best of his generation) than a horizontal one. I just don't get it

[DP39]

I'm happy with the win and haven't read many of the comments, but is anyone talking about Ben NOT being very accurate with his short to intermediate passes? It's been a problem for a few years it seems. I'm getting tired of seeing rookie (not to mention below average ones) having little problem placing those types of passes where they need to be most of the time when Ben is below the line a lot of the time. I'm starting to get tired of giving him a pass...no pun intended.

we can argue about the reasons for this (OL getting walked backwards into the throwing lanes, for instance) but can you imagine taking just about the best intermediate zone thrower in the history of the game and building an offense that forces him to make throws that he is the least good at?

Whatever.

Ben is a HoF'er.

He can make the goddam throws.

You are correct, Ben is a HOF. The thing that amazes me is he is below the line on passes that make up more and more of todays' NFL football passing game. Those short passes to RB/TE/WRs when much of the time little is in the way from point A (Ben's hand) to point B (receiver's catch point). A lot of those passes are 2-4 feet off target (point C), which in turn delays the receiver 1/2 of a second or so. With the speed of today's game 1/2 of a second is the difference of a very successful play and unsuccessful play.

Go back and watch the plays (I have), they are there and the effects of Ben hitting point C are making those plays less successful. Weird thing is, those passes should be the easiest to throw and to practice/perfect. I sometimes wonder if Ben doesn't work very hard on this aspect of the game. And, I'm not talking about 15-20 passes a game, more like 4-8 passes most games. I don't expect 100% perfection on the throws I'm taking about, but I do expect my eyes to see what I see from the other elite or top tier QBs. And sorry, but it's not there. The eye in the sky doesn't lie.

[StillerInCT]

We are just easing into the offense guys. Nothing to see here.

[955876]

I'm still trying to decipher Todd Haley's decision to counter two deep Safetys by going empty back field and throwing instead of running the football behind a $100 million o line and All Pro RB.

The two safeties were back, but the other 9 guys were in the box and or mugging the receivers. The counter to that D is attacking the intermediate middle of the field-- Todd Haley doesn't know that part of the stadium exists and, even if he did, our interior receivers couldn't beat press coverage if their lives depended on it.

Not sure why Hunter wasn't even allowed to dress.

Takin it a step further (and I realize he has some issues with his hands and was given up on) but would it not have been nice to line up guys like Bryant & Coates on the same side?

Seems that's some size and lots of speed for a defense to account for. They won't catch them all but will catch enough that resources will need to be allocated to cover the two.

Frees up Brown, Bell, and whoever is playing TE quite a bit.

Coates traded and Hunter in sweats while Rodgers is invisible and DHB continues to be well, DHB.

I'm giving Bryant a pass given his long layoff.

[jeemie]

I'm still trying to decipher Todd Haley's decision to counter two deep Safetys by going empty back field and throwing instead of running the football behind a $100 million o line and All Pro RB.

The two safeties were back, but the other 9 guys were in the box and or mugging the receivers. The counter to that D is attacking the intermediate middle of the field-- Todd Haley doesn't know that part of the stadium exists and, even if he did, our interior receivers couldn't beat press coverage if their lives depended on it.

Not sure why Hunter wasn't even allowed to dress.

Takin it a step further (and I realize he has some issues with his hands and was given up on) but would it not have been nice to line up guys like Bryant & Coates on the same side?

Seems that's some size and lots of speed for a defense to account for. They won't catch them all but will catch enough that resources will need to be allocated to cover the two.

Frees up Brown, Bell, and whoever is playing TE quite a bit.

Coates traded and Hunter in sweats while Rodgers is invisible and DHB continues to be well, DHB.

I'm giving Bryant a pass given his long layoff.

Hunter not dressing blew my mind away.

Why the fuck not? We traded away Coates and lost Ayers to keep him.

[steelclan]

I'm still trying to decipher Todd Haley's decision to counter two deep Safetys by going empty back field and throwing instead of running the football behind a $100 million o line and All Pro RB.

My thoughts exactly. Whats wrong with running an offense like KC or Dallas. Its ok to still run the ball when you have the horses to do it. Play action is still a non factor in our offense. But of course everyone bitched last year when we played in cleveland and ran it down their throat all game cause haley never got ben jn a rythem.

Wait a second you do realize Ben has RPO on all those plays? I'm not saying I liked the calls but is Haley truly to blame for all of them? None of us know that. I have far bigger issues with some other calls: running Bell with Browns showing 8 in the box and blitzing a 9th. Running a slant when AB has single coverage on the outside. Not testing Browns enough over middle of the field in cover 2 looks with huge spaces available.

[bradshaw2ben]

The rpos and s essentially the choice between running to a stacked box inside or running an extension of the run game as a screen outside. They're both runs, for practical purposes. What we don't do is switch from a run look to challenging those extra LBs and box safeties with seam routes and digs