Ben's Knee Injury

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FortyThree
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Ben's Knee Injury

Post by FortyThree » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:14 pm

Pretty clear to me that Ben is still not 100% from that injury last year.

First off Ben's passes seem to float on him. Looks like he's all arm and no lower body right now.
Matt Williamson on Steelers Nation Radio has been saying it since week one.

Then there are the stats. From Reddit...

Here are his cumulative statistics from 2013 through the first five games of 2016:
1,228/1,853, 14,647 yards, 96 TD, 43 INT
66.3% completion
298.9 yards per game
7.9 yards per attempt
5.4% TD
2.3% INT
2.23 TD/INT ratio
97.8 rating
And here are his cumulative statistics since then:
322/512, 3,592 yards, 20 TD, 16 INT
62.9% completion
256.6 yards per game
7.0 yards per attempt
3.9% TD
3.1% INT
1.25 TD/INT ratio
83.7 rating


Perhaps this is why Haley has been so reliant on Bell lately. And why the offense has struggled so much.

What do yinz think?



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Ice
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Post by Ice » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:19 pm

Refreshingly non-knee jerk. And yeah, sounds very possible.
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Post by Stosh-67 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:23 pm

I think he had a whole off season to get in the best shape he can be.
To re-hab that knee,
Do some extensive cardio to shed extra weight to add back some quickness if the knee was taking some away.
To eat better to shed some weight.
To do some weight lifting to strengthen the knee.
To have a more intense training camp.
To run more.
To do agility drills.
Be more active during camp....when on the field.
To learn how to stretch and loosen up.
To work more with the young kids in camp.
To work more with MB in camp.
Turn up the intensity in camp, drills, pre-season, pre-game.

How many of those things do you think he really did.
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JJT07
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Post by JJT07 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:32 pm

Seems to me like he has had plenty of time to recover from a meniscus injury.

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Post by steelergenie » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:33 pm

One hit and he will be on a clipboard most of the rest of the season. Hello Laundry.

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Post by Legacy User » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:40 pm

fortythree wrote:Pretty clear to me that Ben is still not 100% from that injury last year.

First off Ben's passes seem to float on him. Looks like he's all arm and no lower body right now.
Matt Williamson on Steelers Nation Radio has been saying it since week one.

Then there are the stats. From Reddit...

Here are his cumulative statistics from 2013 through the first five games of 2016:
1,228/1,853, 14,647 yards, 96 TD, 43 INT
66.3% completion
298.9 yards per game
7.9 yards per attempt
5.4% TD
2.3% INT
2.23 TD/INT ratio
97.8 rating
And here are his cumulative statistics since then:
322/512, 3,592 yards, 20 TD, 16 INT
62.9% completion
256.6 yards per game
7.0 yards per attempt
3.9% TD
3.1% INT
1.25 TD/INT ratio
83.7 rating


Perhaps this is why Haley has been so reliant on Bell lately. And why the offense has struggled so much.

What do yinz think?




I think this is a big part of it, which makes 55 passes against what was the worst rush defense coming into yesterdays game all the more maddening...especially coming off a game (Balt) where he called Bells number over and over again.

Edit another factor regarding his knee injury is I think in almost every game and for sure against Balt, defenders are diving into Bens knees consistently and even late in a lot of cases, that can really spook a player with a bad wheel

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Post by R_S » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:01 pm

Stosh-67 wrote:I think he had a whole off season to get in the best shape he can be.
To re-hab that knee,
Do some extensive cardio to shed extra weight to add back some quickness if the knee was taking some away.
To eat better to shed some weight.
To do some weight lifting to strengthen the knee.
To have a more intense training camp.
To run more.
To do agility drills.
Be more active during camp....when on the field.
To learn how to stretch and loosen up.
To work more with the young kids in camp.
To work more with MB in camp.
Turn up the intensity in camp, drills, pre-season, pre-game.

How many of those things do you think he really did.


Ben kayaks to stay in shape in the offseason.

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Post by JJT07 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:12 pm

I just don't understand how an injury from almost a year ago is still affecting him.

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StillerInCT
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Post by StillerInCT » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:39 pm

JJT wrote:I just don't understand how an injury from almost a year ago is still affecting him.


He's 35 and has taken a beating over his career. 7th most sacked QB of all time
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Post by K_C_ » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:41 pm

Something IS wrong with his legs.


Zero doubt in my mind.

Ben is playing like a gigantic pussy.
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swissvale72
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Post by swissvale72 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:56 pm

fortythree wrote:Pretty clear to me that Ben is still not 100% from that injury last year.

First off Ben's passes seem to float on him. Looks like he's all arm and no lower body right now.
Matt Williamson on Steelers Nation Radio has been saying it since week one.

Then there are the stats. From Reddit...

Here are his cumulative statistics from 2013 through the first five games of 2016:
1,228/1,853, 14,647 yards, 96 TD, 43 INT
66.3% completion
298.9 yards per game
7.9 yards per attempt
5.4% TD
2.3% INT
2.23 TD/INT ratio
97.8 rating
And here are his cumulative statistics since then:
322/512, 3,592 yards, 20 TD, 16 INT
62.9% completion
256.6 yards per game
7.0 yards per attempt
3.9% TD
3.1% INT
1.25 TD/INT ratio
83.7 rating


Perhaps this is why Haley has been so reliant on Bell lately. And why the offense has struggled so much.

What do yinz think?

What do yinz you ask? I think Haley could have and should have been way more reliant on Bell yesterday

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Post by Legacy User » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:06 pm

swissvale72 wrote:
fortythree wrote:Pretty clear to me that Ben is still not 100% from that injury last year.

First off Ben's passes seem to float on him. Looks like he's all arm and no lower body right now.
Matt Williamson on Steelers Nation Radio has been saying it since week one.

Then there are the stats. From Reddit...

Here are his cumulative statistics from 2013 through the first five games of 2016:
1,228/1,853, 14,647 yards, 96 TD, 43 INT
66.3% completion
298.9 yards per game
7.9 yards per attempt
5.4% TD
2.3% INT
2.23 TD/INT ratio
97.8 rating
And here are his cumulative statistics since then:
322/512, 3,592 yards, 20 TD, 16 INT
62.9% completion
256.6 yards per game
7.0 yards per attempt
3.9% TD
3.1% INT
1.25 TD/INT ratio
83.7 rating


Perhaps this is why Haley has been so reliant on Bell lately. And why the offense has struggled so much.

What do yinz think?

What do yinz you ask? I think Haley could have and should have been way more reliant on Bell yesterday



Agreed Swiss. Jags had the worst rush defense in the nfl coming into yesterdays game, would have liked to test that stat way more than he did.

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Post by BethlehemSteel » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:35 pm

It's called old age and arthritis starting to creep in, father time is undefeated.

He's on record saying his body is slowing down, it shows every Sunday
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:16 pm

Stosh-67 wrote:I think he had a whole off season to get in the best shape he can be.
To re-hab that knee,
Do some extensive cardio to shed extra weight to add back some quickness if the knee was taking some away.
To eat better to shed some weight.
To do some weight lifting to strengthen the knee.
To have a more intense training camp.
To run more.
To do agility drills.
Be more active during camp....when on the field.
To learn how to stretch and loosen up.
To work more with the young kids in camp.
To work more with MB in camp.
Turn up the intensity in camp, drills, pre-season, pre-game.

How many of those things do you think he really did.

All of them.
“We are the stupidest fucking franchise ever.” — Smithessmokin

R_S
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Post by R_S » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:13 pm

Ben doesn't lift weights in any kind of manner that you think of when you think of football players lifting weights. That's funny that someone thinks he does. I think blaming the knee injury from last year is grasping for excuses for a bad game. We will see how Ben responds.

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tbsteel
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Post by tbsteel » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:29 pm

Haven’t even seen a limp out of the guy this year. And he looked pretty damn healthy in New England last year.

I don’t see anything wrong with him physically. He just looks like a good 35 year old QB with a ton of hits in his past that didn’t come in this season fully committed and prepared at 100%.
*reserves the right to roots for losses*

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:33 pm

GreekSteel wrote:
fortythree wrote:Pretty clear to me that Ben is still not 100% from that injury last year.

First off Ben's passes seem to float on him. Looks like he's all arm and no lower body right now.
Matt Williamson on Steelers Nation Radio has been saying it since week one.

Then there are the stats. From Reddit...

Here are his cumulative statistics from 2013 through the first five games of 2016:
1,228/1,853, 14,647 yards, 96 TD, 43 INT
66.3% completion
298.9 yards per game
7.9 yards per attempt
5.4% TD
2.3% INT
2.23 TD/INT ratio
97.8 rating
And here are his cumulative statistics since then:
322/512, 3,592 yards, 20 TD, 16 INT
62.9% completion
256.6 yards per game
7.0 yards per attempt
3.9% TD
3.1% INT
1.25 TD/INT ratio
83.7 rating


Perhaps this is why Haley has been so reliant on Bell lately. And why the offense has struggled so much.

What do yinz think?




I think this is a big part of it, which makes 55 passes against what was the worst rush defense coming into yesterdays game all the more maddening...especially coming off a game (Balt) where he called Bells number over and over again.

Edit another factor regarding his knee injury is I think in almost every game and for sure against Balt, defenders are diving into Bens knees consistently and even late in a lot of cases, that can really spook a player with a bad wheel

Happened again yesterday... Ben got decleated from the side on a pass rush, no call.
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Post by LakecrestSteeler » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:46 pm

I don’t think there is a thing wrong with him other than crap TE play and number 2 through 4 WR don’t get open when it counts.

His game was not that awful yesterday. He had some amazing throws. One or two bounces go the other way and it is a whole different conversation. As a matter of fact, I think if they score 7 instead of three on the first RZ series instead of the Haley TD, the game is completely different.

Everyone says Father Time is undefeated. Is that really true? Don’t suicides and abortions kind of fuck his record up?

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Post by Kodiak » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:47 pm

Whether it's Ben's reads/progressions, the play call/design, pass pro or receivers getting open or all of the above.....cut the number of contested balls in half (to a more normal NFL level) and a lot of these issues are going to disappear.
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:44 pm

LakecrestSteeler wrote:I don’t think there is a thing wrong with him other than crap TE play and number 2 through 4 WR don’t get open when it counts.

His game was not that awful yesterday. He had some amazing throws. One or two bounces go the other way and it is a whole different conversation. As a matter of fact, I think if they score 7 instead of three on the first RZ series instead of the Haley TD, the game is completely different.

Everyone says Father Time is undefeated. Is that really true? Don’t suicides and abortions kind of fuck his record up?

Thank you sanity, part 2.
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:44 pm

Kodiak wrote:Whether it's Ben's reads/progressions, the play call/design, pass pro or receivers getting open or all of the above.....cut the number of contested balls in half (to a more normal NFL level) and a lot of these issues are going to disappear.

Just watch the other games every weekend and this is obvious.
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Post by Scunge » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:56 am

When you throw in the 3 playoff games, he has had 23 TDs and 20 INTs since that 5 game stretch before he got hurt.

I do think that his lower half is not right, won't get better, it is what it is at this point of his career. Can't improve it, can't rehab it can't buy cybernetic, bionic parts to give him fresh legs.

Ever watch Ben the past year struggle to reach the point to hand the ball off to Bell? I have been amazed that we have not had more bobbles in the exchange, in just handing the ball off. I also think this is a reason why the play action passing had disappeared so much. You need to have a QB who has the legs to do that, I think it places too much of a strain on Ben and so that is why Haley has deemphasized it in the playbook.

Also, that inner core strength that Ben used to have with his legs, those magnificent tree trunks he had for legs, they allowed him to shrug off would be sackers and they allowed him to move in the pocket, to scramble and throw with great accuracy on the move. These past few years that has been diminishing and has been very apparent to me this past year, he is more of an immobile pocket QB. Yeah, Ben's arm may have lost no strength but the lower half of your body is the key to everything, and was the key to his Hall of Fame career.

And Haley, man, he just is no damn good. The play calling, the design of the routes, they do no favors to Ben or the receivers. Most OC's would love to have a #2 and #3 WR like Bryant and JuJu, to have a TE like Vance McDonald. McDonald had 54 catches and 7 TDs his last two seasons with the 49ers, he had 11 pass plays over 20+ yards, had two plays over 40+ yards, one being a 75 yard TD. He did that with the 49ers and their substandard QBs.

If Haley can't design an offense to make use of all of this talent then when will he ever be able to do so? They need to make a change. I am thinking a 4 game skid, where we lose to KC, to Cincy and to Detroit, where we sit 3-5 during the bye week should be enough to get Haley fired.

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Post by Legacy User » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:04 am

Scunge wrote:If Haley can't design an offense to make use of all of this talent then when will he ever be able to do so? They need to make a change. I am thinking a 4 game skid, where we lose to KC, to Cincy and to Detroit, where we sit 3-5 during the bye week should be enough to get Haley fired.

Not really expecting that kind of skid.

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Post by Scunge » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:22 am

KC is 5-0, they will play us in KC.

Cincy is 2-3 but have won their past two games, we play them at home.

We play Detroit at Detroit, they are currently 3-2, this is a Sunday night game, 8:30 PM.

I am hoping, HOPING that we can win at least 1 of these 3 games, probably Cincy, and end up 4-4 before the bye. Forget about home field advantage or a first round bye, we will be lucky to win the division and go 9-7 at this point. We have not seen anything on offense that gives any inkling of optimism moving forward. Our defense has their toughest tests moving forward, we faced a pretty bad cast of QBs the first 5 games, that stops from here on out. The defense is going to give up more points per game, and the offense is going to have to score points, but that looks like a dubious proposition.

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Post by AirRescueFF » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:16 am

Scunge wrote:When you throw in the 3 playoff games, he has had 23 TDs and 20 INTs since that 5 game stretch before he got hurt.

I do think that his lower half is not right, won't get better, it is what it is at this point of his career. Can't improve it, can't rehab it can't buy cybernetic, bionic parts to give him fresh legs.

Ever watch Ben the past year struggle to reach the point to hand the ball off to Bell? I have been amazed that we have not had more bobbles in the exchange, in just handing the ball off. I also think this is a reason why the play action passing had disappeared so much. You need to have a QB who has the legs to do that, I think it places too much of a strain on Ben and so that is why Haley has deemphasized it in the playbook.

Also, that inner core strength that Ben used to have with his legs, those magnificent tree trunks he had for legs, they allowed him to shrug off would be sackers and they allowed him to move in the pocket, to scramble and throw with great accuracy on the move. These past few years that has been diminishing and has been very apparent to me this past year, he is more of an immobile pocket QB. Yeah, Ben's arm may have lost no strength but the lower half of your body is the key to everything, and was the key to his Hall of Fame career.

And Haley, man, he just is no damn good. The play calling, the design of the routes, they do no favors to Ben or the receivers. Most OC's would love to have a #2 and #3 WR like Bryant and JuJu, to have a TE like Vance McDonald. McDonald had 54 catches and 7 TDs his last two seasons with the 49ers, he had 11 pass plays over 20+ yards, had two plays over 40+ yards, one being a 75 yard TD. He did that with the 49ers and their substandard QBs.

If Haley can't design an offense to make use of all of this talent then when will he ever be able to do so? They need to make a change. I am thinking a 4 game skid, where we lose to KC, to Cincy and to Detroit, where we sit 3-5 during the bye week should be enough to get Haley fired.



The lack of this is really a huge loss, IMO.

Especially facing a strong pass defense.

Smaller throwing lanes, stronger pass rush.

Did notice some change on his snap inflection, cadence, count. Maybe meant to help offset it a little...at least the past rush part. It's usually the kept the same all the time. Maddening.

As long as their own guys don't flinch...fist bump to Bryant.
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Post by RemoAZ » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:45 am

Stosh-67 wrote:I think he had a whole off season to get in the best shape he can be.
To re-hab that knee,
Do some extensive cardio to shed extra weight to add back some quickness if the knee was taking some away.
To eat better to shed some weight.
To do some weight lifting to strengthen the knee.
To have a more intense training camp.
To run more.
To do agility drills.
Be more active during camp....when on the field.
To learn how to stretch and loosen up.
To work more with the young kids in camp.
To work more with MB in camp.
Turn up the intensity in camp, drills, pre-season, pre-game.

How many of those things do you think he really did.


It would be nice if all QBs worked out and took care of themselves like Brady but they don't. Ben would be in a lot better shape if he had that kind of drive and desire to be the best. He doesn't. Barkley didn't have it so he had to watch Jordan win rings while he couldn't stay healthy when he had the chance. Tons of those kinds of examples in sports. Separates very good from elite.
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Post by Suwanee88 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:03 am

GreekSteel wrote:
fortythree wrote:Pretty clear to me that Ben is still not 100% from that injury last year.

First off Ben's passes seem to float on him. Looks like he's all arm and no lower body right now.
Matt Williamson on Steelers Nation Radio has been saying it since week one.

Then there are the stats. From Reddit...

Here are his cumulative statistics from 2013 through the first five games of 2016:
1,228/1,853, 14,647 yards, 96 TD, 43 INT
66.3% completion
298.9 yards per game
7.9 yards per attempt
5.4% TD
2.3% INT
2.23 TD/INT ratio
97.8 rating
And here are his cumulative statistics since then:
322/512, 3,592 yards, 20 TD, 16 INT
62.9% completion
256.6 yards per game
7.0 yards per attempt
3.9% TD
3.1% INT
1.25 TD/INT ratio
83.7 rating


Perhaps this is why Haley has been so reliant on Bell lately. And why the offense has struggled so much.

What do yinz think?




I think this is a big part of it, which makes 55 passes against what was the worst rush defense coming into yesterdays game all the more maddening...especially coming off a game (Balt) where he called Bells number over and over again.

Edit another factor regarding his knee injury is I think in almost every game and for sure against Balt, defenders are diving into Bens knees consistently and even late in a lot of cases, that can really spook a player with a bad wheel

True - every game they have been cheap shotting him low so it makes for a pretty good theory.

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Post by Minkah'n History » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:56 am

swissvale72 wrote:
fortythree wrote:Pretty clear to me that Ben is still not 100% from that injury last year.

First off Ben's passes seem to float on him. Looks like he's all arm and no lower body right now.
Matt Williamson on Steelers Nation Radio has been saying it since week one.

Then there are the stats. From Reddit...

Here are his cumulative statistics from 2013 through the first five games of 2016:
1,228/1,853, 14,647 yards, 96 TD, 43 INT
66.3% completion
298.9 yards per game
7.9 yards per attempt
5.4% TD
2.3% INT
2.23 TD/INT ratio
97.8 rating
And here are his cumulative statistics since then:
322/512, 3,592 yards, 20 TD, 16 INT
62.9% completion
256.6 yards per game
7.0 yards per attempt
3.9% TD
3.1% INT
1.25 TD/INT ratio
83.7 rating


Perhaps this is why Haley has been so reliant on Bell lately. And why the offense has struggled so much.

What do yinz think?

What do yinz you ask? I think Haley could have and should have been way more reliant on Bell yesterday


Nah, were not winning with 3 yard runs and FGs. This is 2017, need to make throws to win football games.

Right now, Ben and the offense aren't making near enough plays. Bell is not the savior folks.

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Post by JJT07 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:04 am

Scunge wrote:KC is 5-0, they will play us in KC.

Cincy is 2-3 but have won their past two games, we play them at home.

We play Detroit at Detroit, they are currently 3-2, this is a Sunday night game, 8:30 PM.

I am hoping, HOPING that we can win at least 1 of these 3 games, probably Cincy, and end up 4-4 before the bye. Forget about home field advantage or a first round bye, we will be lucky to win the division and go 9-7 at this point. We have not seen anything on offense that gives any inkling of optimism moving forward. Our defense has their toughest tests moving forward, we faced a pretty bad cast of QBs the first 5 games, that stops from here on out. The defense is going to give up more points per game, and the offense is going to have to score points, but that looks like a dubious proposition.


Don't disagree, but the AFC is wide open this year. I mean the Chiefs are the only team with more wins than us right now.

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Post by stinger8 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:27 am

Stosh-67 wrote:I think he had a whole off season to get in the best shape he can be.
To re-hab that knee,
Do some extensive cardio to shed extra weight to add back some quickness if the knee was taking some away.
To eat better to shed some weight.
To do some weight lifting to strengthen the knee.
To have a more intense training camp.
To run more.
To do agility drills.
Be more active during camp....when on the field.
To learn how to stretch and loosen up.
To work more with the young kids in camp.
To work more with MB in camp.
Turn up the intensity in camp, drills, pre-season, pre-game.

How many of those things do you think he really did.


5 star post. Bang on. Stosh go to the front of the line

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