Pens vs Caps Game 6 game comments

[Donnie Brasco]

From the article Obviously posted: "The Penguins scored 14 goals in this series. Sidney Crosby was on the ice for 13 of them."

So what? I'm no statistician, and am not going to scrub tape, but he may have been on the ice for those goals, but how many of them did he have an influence on?

Besides, Doesn't one expect your best offensive players to score goals and get assists? Again, it's like being OK with LeBron James scoring 20 with 5 assists in a playoff game.

I'm not suggesting there isn't blame to go around, but seriously, It's like Crosby and Malkin are above criticism for not playing like superstars when they are identified as superstars.

I'm also not overly upset. As has been stated, two consecutive cups is incredibly hard, and a threepeat is virtually unheard of. I'm completely ok with this loss. They've given me much pleasure over the last two years. I'd thank each and every player and coach. Hats off to them.

Sid had 8 points in the series, which tied for the lead among both teams (Guentzel). I think a more accurate analogy would be LeBron putting up 50 and no one else scoring in double digits.

Pretty much this.

Guys that showed up:
Sid
Horny
Jake
Dumo (who had to babysit Letang)
Sheahan

When your list is that short, you're not gonna get far

[Ice]

I thought Hags definitely had an impact once he was back in the lineup. Also thought Geno definitely managed to impact the series in the games he played, as well. Maybe not to the level we're used to, but he was positively noticeable.

[Louis Lipps Service]

I thought Hags definitely had an impact once he was back in the lineup. Also thought Geno definitely managed to impact the series in the games he played, as well. Maybe not to the level we're used to, but he was positively noticeable.

IMO, after you get past Sid, Geno and Murray, Hags and Hornqvist are the two most important guys on this team. Don't get me wrong, Phil is a fantastic luxury and I wouldn't disagree if someone put him in that group as well, I just don't think he's quite as big of a chess piece.

They're both matchup nightmares for other teams.

Thunder and Lightning. Hornqvist might be the best in the league at creating chaos in front of the net.

And Hags is one of the best in the league at both forechecking and backchecking. His speed is just such an incredible weapon, and he's just so intelligent at utilizing it in different facets of the game.

[Ice]

Agree about Horny and Hags. Both are glue guys, both on and (I know this about Hornqvist, I assume about Hagelin) off the ice.

I'll add that whatever was wrong with Kessel going into the dance this year made it much easier to defend the Pens, who were basically a one-line team this playoff.

[DP39]

I have not read any of this thread. I watch every game and read most posts in this forum though. There's something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while though and it's not because the Pens just got eliminated either....I know Malkin is a big man and considered more of a thoroughbred, but I get so tired of his lackadaisical effort on the routine plays. He's amazing 20% of the time when he is hustling, but man, the other 80% of the time he makes, what appear to be, lazy, stupid mistakes all over the ice. Is it me, or does anyone else notice that. Hornquist is about the same size (a few inches shorter) but he busts his ass the whole time he's out there.

Malkin was one of many guys hobbled:

Hags (obviously), Kessel, Malkin, Brassard - all with injuries entering the playoffs or injured during them

I hope(?) to god Rust was hurt bc he was a no show

There's all your secondary scoring

Donnie, don't get me wrong, I realize we were a skating Mash unit out there at times, but to me, Malkin, even when healthy, takes too many plays off. Maybe it's his overall lackadaisical body language he presents, but it seems for every great, amazing thing he does on the ice, he does two things that appear just lazy and stupid or somehow not in sync with the person he's making a play with. It just seems the guy is oozing with obvious ability, but not putting in the effort 100% of the time to take advantage of it all (i.e. Sid). I get that everything you do on the ice isn't going to work, but man it looks like he's halfway going through the motions a bunch of the time on the ice. Left knee hyperextension injury notwithstanding, my 2 cents anyway.

Maybe the endurance of this long three year run had finally taken it's toll on some of the players (more than others) involved.

[SteelWIll]

at least Letang has a hot wife...to go w/ his millions of $s...

[Ice]

Malkin's two-way play the games in which he participated against the Caps was pretty darn good. He obviously didn't have the usual spring in his step, but I don't feel like the effort was lacking.

[fractalsteel]

I have not read any of this thread. I watch every game and read most posts in this forum though. There's something I've wanted to get off my chest for a while though and it's not because the Pens just got eliminated either....I know Malkin is a big man and considered more of a thoroughbred, but I get so tired of his lackadaisical effort on the routine plays. He's amazing 20% of the time when he is hustling, but man, the other 80% of the time he makes, what appear to be, lazy, stupid mistakes all over the ice. Is it me, or does anyone else notice that. Hornquist is about the same size (a few inches shorter) but he busts his ass the whole time he's out there.

Malkin was one of many guys hobbled:

Hags (obviously), Kessel, Malkin, Brassard - all with injuries entering the playoffs or injured during them

I hope(?) to god Rust was hurt bc he was a no show

There's all your secondary scoring

I was wondering about Rust as well. He had some big goals the past two postseasons but this year he couldn't make it happen. I thought he should have been paired with Malkin more often because they did good things with Kunitz the last two years.

Too many injuries this year. I'll be watching to see who goes under the knife this offseason.

As to DP39's comments: not bashing your opinion but I think you are inflating things a bit.
In the 3 playoff cup runs that led to championships Malkin was the leading scorer in two of them. Probably our best defensive forward in those runs as well.
Won the Conn Smythe once and was in consideration last year. Sid was a worthy choice.

And Malkin was voted team MVP(which he has won several times prior) by his teammates and coaches just before the playoffs started this year.

One last thing, Malkin is 20th all-time in points in the playoffs. ALL-Time-go and look at the list, very impressive and he is only 31.

[Ice]

It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.

[Louis Lipps Service]

It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.

He still has his lazy days. Though I personally didn't think it was an issue this playoff. I thought his effort was where it needed to be. He just wasn't healthy after the lower body injury.

I don't agree with the criticism of Rust either, aside from the "didn't score enough" label that can be applied to everyone on the team. I thought, in the past two games specifically, he showed some flashes of skill that I never in a million years would have guessed he even had (and I'm saying that as a fan of Rust's). He dangled the puck around some defenders several times, which has never really been his MO.

[SteelPro]

It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.

He still has his lazy days. Though I personally didn't think it was an issue this playoff. I thought his effort was where it needed to be. He just wasn't healthy after the lower body injury.

I don't agree with the criticism of Rust either, aside from the "didn't score enough" label that can be applied to everyone on the team. I thought, in the past two games specifically, he showed some flashes of skill that I never in a million years would have guessed he even had (and I'm saying that as a fan of Rust's). He dangled the puck around some defenders several times, which has never really been his MO.

Man I wish I would have seen that, but I didn't. To me Rust had the same affliction as just about everyone else. They all seemed to be trying to stick handle through heavy traffic and kept getting stripped of the puck. In most cases credit to Washington for baiting that trap. In a few cases they were just losing puck on their own (you reading this Mr. Kessel?) To be honest Kuhnhackl and Sheahan were probably the only forwards not on the top line that seemed to have any clue what to do with the puck. The issue wasn't laziness, lack of heart, lack of desire etc... Sometimes you just have to give some credit to the opponent. And injury/fatigue was probably factoring in here as well.

[fractalsteel]

It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.

He still has his lazy days. Though I personally didn't think it was an issue this playoff. I thought his effort was where it needed to be. He just wasn't healthy after the lower body injury.

I don't agree with the criticism of Rust either, aside from the "didn't score enough" label that can be applied to everyone on the team. I thought, in the past two games specifically, he showed some flashes of skill that I never in a million years would have guessed he even had (and I'm saying that as a fan of Rust's). He dangled the puck around some defenders several times, which has never really been his MO.

No doubt that Malkin takes a game here or there off but that is in the regular season. Every player in the NHL can be accused of such. The season is a grind and to this point in his career and through 5 HC's I've never heard one of them criticize Malkin for such, even Thierren.

I wasn't really criticizing Rust for his play, I was pointing out that he had been a factor in secondary scoring the past two runs-mostly playing with Malkin and Kunitz. That is why I pushed for a line of Rust/Malkin/Hornqvist because that would be a tough line to match up against.
Rust was clutch during the back to back run but like so many of his teammates this year he wasn't.

[Louis Lipps Service]

It's funny, but the "lazy Russian" tag seems to somehow get applied to Malkin to this day, even though it's about a decade or two out of date.

He still has his lazy days. Though I personally didn't think it was an issue this playoff. I thought his effort was where it needed to be. He just wasn't healthy after the lower body injury.

I don't agree with the criticism of Rust either, aside from the "didn't score enough" label that can be applied to everyone on the team. I thought, in the past two games specifically, he showed some flashes of skill that I never in a million years would have guessed he even had (and I'm saying that as a fan of Rust's). He dangled the puck around some defenders several times, which has never really been his MO.

Man I wish I would have seen that, but I didn't. To me Rust had the same affliction as just about everyone else. They all seemed to be trying to stick handle through heavy traffic and kept getting stripped of the puck. In most cases credit to Washington for baiting that trap. In a few cases they were just losing puck on their own (you reading this Mr. Kessel?) To be honest Kuhnhackl and Sheahan were probably the only forwards not on the top line that seemed to have any clue what to do with the puck. The issue wasn't laziness, lack of heart, lack of desire etc... Sometimes you just have to give some credit to the opponent. And injury/fatigue was probably factoring in here as well.

It was definitely there. I made some comments about in the gameday threads, even.

[Legacy User]

at least Letang has a hot wife...to go w/ his millions of $s...

ha..maybe she can convince his over paid ass to retire! can pens cut him without killing them cap wise? I don't know the cap reality in nhl. be great to trade his ass to some unsuspecting chump gm.. 7.5 million a year would be better spent elsewhere.
well tonight we coulda been celebrating our game 7 win..

[fractalsteel]

at least Letang has a hot wife...to go w/ his millions of $s...

ha..maybe she can convince his over paid ass to retire! can pens cut him without killing them cap wise? I don't know the cap reality in nhl. be great to trade his ass to some unsuspecting chump gm.. 7.5 million a year would be better spent elsewhere.
well tonight we coulda been celebrating our game 7 win..

I seriously doubt the Pens are going to trade Letang. I believe he has modified no-trade clause in his contract making it more difficult to execute if they went that way.

One thing that has rarely been spoken here is that Letang and his wife suffered a miscarriage during the first cup run. I believe it happened at the beginning of the playoffs in 2016.
I don't know for sure but his game really started to suffer about then and injuries followed him the next year.

[Ice]

Teammates (particularly Crosby quoted) gave Letang a full vote of confidence on cleanout day, as did coach and GM.

Sully not-so-subtly throws Phil under the bus about possible injury, while going out of his way to excuse Brassard, who was "playing with one he couldn't overcome." All this after saying he wasn't going to discuss injuries. Geno, Sid will skip non-NHL off-season hockey.

Rutherford struck a softer tone discussing Kessel. Also said "looking to make changes to improve" or some such. Also, "Sprong will be a regular in the lineup next season."

Phil left town without speaking to the media.

[COR-TEN]

Teammates (particularly Crosby quoted) gave Letang a full vote of confidence on cleanout day, as did coach and GM.

Sully not-so-subtly throws Phil under the bus about possible injury, while going out of his way to excuse Brassard, who was "playing with one he couldn't overcome." All this after saying he wasn't going to discuss injuries. Geno, Sid will skip non-NHL off-season hockey.

Rutherford struck a softer tone discussing Kessel. Also said "looking to make changes to improve" or some such. Also, "Sprong will be a regular in the lineup next season."

Phil left town without speaking to the media.

It's increasingly likely the pens lost a sniper? Not following, but I didn't see kessel freaking out on the bench and talking to himself as usual. Maybe I missed it.

[Ice]

There were a few times Phil being The Phil on the bench showed, and just a couple where Sullivan looked a little annoyed with him, just from looking at the facial expressions involved.

Buddy of mine mentioned that Tocchet drew high praise from Phil, and might have been a go-between for HC and player, smoothing the road a little bit.

[fractalsteel]

Teammates (particularly Crosby quoted) gave Letang a full vote of confidence on cleanout day, as did coach and GM.

Sully not-so-subtly throws Phil under the bus about possible injury, while going out of his way to excuse Brassard, who was "playing with one he couldn't overcome." All this after saying he wasn't going to discuss injuries. Geno, Sid will skip non-NHL off-season hockey.

Rutherford struck a softer tone discussing Kessel. Also said "looking to make changes to improve" or some such. Also, "Sprong will be a regular in the lineup next season."

Phil left town without speaking to the media.

Interesting stuff.
Kessel had his best statistical regular season this year.

As far as Sprong goes, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Ice]

I've been a big fan of The Phil in Pittsburgh. He's got years of prime left, and I hope they can work it out, assuming there's something to work out, that is.

[Legacy User]

the phil show is odd..dude was arguably mvp on team during season.. then the playoffs arrive and hes a shell..like to know why...is their a conflict with phil and sully? I always thought phil was happy camper with pens..id sure as hell say good riddance to letang before phil that's for sure..your highest paid defenseman should not be the playoff goat every game. pens mike Mitchell..

[Legacy User]

glad preds out..fuck em..misery loves company.. now the caps must be removed..4-0 be fun..

[Legacy User]

Deferring to other's expertise on how the NHL salary cap and compliance buyout process work, here is what I think I know.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_buyout The compliance buyout still exists. My thinking was/is that each team got/gets one buyout -- the Pens have not used this previously -- the Pens could use it for Letang or Phil if it still exists?

2. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/penguins Phil & Letang are now 30-something with 4 years left on their deals. Combined they would make north of $14 million EACH SEASON during that time. I can't see both being here for the next 4 seasons -- frankly, I'd say both will be gone by then.

3. By way of comparison, Hagelin and Brassard are both of similar ages, but only have one year remaining at a combined salary of half, or $7 million. This actually makes Hagelin and Brassard more attractive potentially to a team that wants to win now, meaning the Pens may get a better deal for 1 or both of them than for 1 or both of Phil/Letang.

So, what does this all mean -- I'll play amateur GM and capologist.

1. Phil gets traded this summer, maybe at the NHL Entry Draft for picks. The picks would help, but dumping some/all of that contract would be the main attraction for the Pens. I would rather keep Phil than Letang but I'm reading Sully's tea leaves.

2. Letang stays around another season and then gets traded or bought out if he doesn't up his game. I agree off his recent performance combined with his salary that the Pens wouldn't likely get top value by trading him now.

3. If they can't trade Phil or Letang then Hags gets traded at the Draft. I like Hags and he's valuable on the PK, but he doesn't score enough. Brassard is seen as a Swiss Army Knife -- can play 3rd/4th line center or fill-in on the top 2 lines if Sid/Geno get hurt. Also, Hag's $4 million plus the increasing salary cap can be used to find another FA plus to pay Jake whose going to need paid soon.

[Ice]

The way things played out with Reaves (I know, I'm trying to forget, too), Cole, and with Rutherford singing a different tune while Sully is basically chucking Phil under the bus (along with a healthy level of TVS for WBS jobbers like Rowney and Simon by Sullivan in the regular and post-season), and Rutherford stating that Sprong WILL be a regular next season, is there a bit of a disconnect between our coach and GM on personnel/ice time issues?

[Louis Lipps Service]

I think the Pens would be crazy to get rid of Hagelin under just about any context. His combination of speed, grit, and intelligence is just too rare.

Goal scoring is only one aspect that makes a good hockey player, and comparing goals to salary misses the point entirely. You need guys who can do other things, too. With the offensive talent on this team, there's zero reason they should be relying on Hagelin to be a consistent goal scorer when he does so many other things.

[Ice]

I am definitely of two minds with Hags. I love what he brings to the team. I hate the contract we inherited with him. It is by no means the biggest albatross of a contract the organization has to deal with (those are on the defensive side: we are actually, added up, paying our defensemen 2 million a year more against the cap than the freaking Preds are), but it's one of them.

The cap is supposed to be going up this season, maybe more than a little, for what it's worth.

[fractalsteel]

I doubt that the Pens break up the band, more likely they make a few tweaks here and there. If they make a move it will be to add another defenseman, especially if Sprong is going to be a regular on the big club.

The window is 2-3 years so there is no need to panic and start thinking about making major moves.

[Donnie Brasco]

Deferring to other's expertise on how the NHL salary cap and compliance buyout process work, here is what I think I know.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_buyout The compliance buyout still exists. My thinking was/is that each team got/gets one buyout -- the Pens have not used this previously -- the Pens could use it for Letang or Phil if it still exists?

2. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/penguins Phil & Letang are now 30-something with 4 years left on their deals. Combined they would make north of $14 million EACH SEASON during that time. I can't see both being here for the next 4 seasons -- frankly, I'd say both will be gone by then.

3. By way of comparison, Hagelin and Brassard are both of similar ages, but only have one year remaining at a combined salary of half, or $7 million. This actually makes Hagelin and Brassard more attractive potentially to a team that wants to win now, meaning the Pens may get a better deal for 1 or both of them than for 1 or both of Phil/Letang.

So, what does this all mean -- I'll play amateur GM and capologist.

1. Phil gets traded this summer, maybe at the NHL Entry Draft for picks. The picks would help, but dumping some/all of that contract would be the main attraction for the Pens. I would rather keep Phil than Letang but I'm reading Sully's tea leaves.

2. Letang stays around another season and then gets traded or bought out if he doesn't up his game. I agree off his recent performance combined with his salary that the Pens wouldn't likely get top value by trading him now.

3. If they can't trade Phil or Letang then Hags gets traded at the Draft. I like Hags and he's valuable on the PK, but he doesn't score enough. Brassard is seen as a Swiss Army Knife -- can play 3rd/4th line center or fill-in on the top 2 lines if Sid/Geno get hurt. Also, Hag's $4 million plus the increasing salary cap can be used to find another FA plus to pay Jake whose going to need paid soon.

Note that Phil and Letang have limited NTC's. So they have about 8 teams they could possibly be moved to

Basically Kessel and Letang aren't going anywhere. I'll do an avatar bet for the next year or whatever

[Donnie Brasco]

I think the Pens would be crazy to get rid of Hagelin under just about any context. His combination of speed, grit, and intelligence is just too rare.

Goal scoring is only one aspect that makes a good hockey player, and comparing goals to salary misses the point entirely. You need guys who can do other things, too. With the offensive talent on this team, there's zero reason they should be relying on Hagelin to be a consistent goal scorer when he does so many other things.

Yup- Hags and Horny are the 2 best forecheckers on the team (and possibly top 15 in the league). Stuff they do doesn't end up on the scoresheet

[swissvale72]

Said nothing since Monday night. Love the Penguins and all they're accomplished. That said, my major disappointment is premised on their not coming through in the big spots in each of their last three losses...
*Surrendered the winning goal with a minute left in Game 3
*Had that fuckin' Game 5, then gave up the tying in the 3rd, the go-ahead with four minutes left, and missed a half-open net with 2 minutes left
*And of course, the OT loss in Game 6

In the context of the two previous seasons, very un-Penguin like.

But again....thank you Penguins for bringing two Cups in a row to Pittsburgh.