Pens Offseason Discussion

[Ice]

The first shoe has dropped. No Lafreniere. What's next? Who looks good at 15? Do we keep 15, or send it to Guerin and Minny? Who stays? Who goes? Who comes? Inquiring minds want to know.

[bradshaw2ben]

I just made myself Coach and GM of the 2020 Penguins. Tell me where I've gone mad:

BuhBye:
Justin Schultz UFA 30 D 6' 2" 193 R 46 3 9 12 $5,500,000
Conor Sheary UFA 28 LW 5' 8" 179 L 63 10 13 23 $3,000,000
Kevin Roy UFA 27 C 5' 9" 174 L $850,000
Patrick Marleau UFA 41 LW 6' 2" 215 L 66 11 11 22 $700,000
Adam Johnson RFA 26 C $700,000

Sign if the price is right:
Graham Knott RFA 23 LW $728,333
John Nyberg RFA 24 LW $745,000
Thomas DiPauli RFA 26 C 188 L 2 $700,000
Riley Barber RFA 26 RW 6' 0" 203 R 9 $700,000
Phil Varone UFA 29 C 5' 10" 193 L $700,000

Re-Sign:
Matthew Murray RFA 26 G 6' 4" 178 L 38 1 1 20 2.87 0.899 $3,750,000
Evan Rodrigues RFA 27 LW 5' 11" 184 R 45 6 4 10 $2,000,000
Jared McCann RFA 24 LW 6' 1" 198 L 66 14 21 35 $1,250,000
Sam Lafferty UFA 25 C 195 R 50 6 7 13 $767,500
Juuso Riikola RFA 26 D 6' 0" 190 R 36 1 6 7 $850,000
Dominik Simon RFA 26 C 5' 11" 176 L 64 7 15 22 $750,000
Anthony Angello RFA 24 C $833,750
Alex D'Orio RFA 21 G $716,666
Jordy Bellerive RFA 21 C $716,666
Sam Miletic RFA 23 LW $710,000
Tristan Jarry RFA 25 G 6' 2" 194 L 33 20 2.43 0.921 $675,000

Protected List (Expansion Draft)
Tristan Jarry

Brian Dumoulin
Sid Crosby
Geno Malkin
Jake Guentzel
Bryan Rust
Domenik Simon
Jason Zucker
Jared McCann

EXPOSED REQUIRED:
* One defenseman who is a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played in at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons: Jack Johnson

* Two forwards who are a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons: Patric Hornqvist & Patrick Marleau

* One goalie who is under contract in 2021-22 or will be a restricted free agent at the end of his current contract immediately prior to 2021-22: Matt Murray

If they take Letang, you re-sign Justin Schultz. If they take Hornqvist, you try and trade back for him. they're not taking either of those guys and their contracts though, when they can have Murray.

2020 Lineup

G Tristan Jarry
G Casey Desmith
D1 Letang - Dumoulin
D2 Marino - Pettersson
D3 Rikkola - Rhuwedel

F1 Rust - Malkin - Guentzel
F2 Simon - Crosby - Poulin
F3 Lafferty - Bjugstad - Mccann
F4 Hornqvist - Bluegger - Tanev

I'd try to give away Johnson or scratch him until somebody needs a day off. I'd look to deal Zucker, ZAR, Bjugstad & Rodriguez for a proven winger for Sid or, better yet, a solid #4 DMan. If you deal Bjugstad, you either move McCann to C and add Angelo to the 3rd or 4th line OR you have Rodriguez replace him.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

[fractalsteel]

Guentzel is tied to Crosby especially if that is what Sid wants.

I ragged on him during the playoffs but you would try and trade Zucker? He played less than 20 games for the Birds. And they gave up a first rounder next year and their top defensive prospect for him. He gets at least another year to show.

I like Adam Johnson but like Lafferty, if either makes a mistake they are stuck in the Sullivan doghouse painting the interior.

Bugjstad is useless. If you can expose him over Horny I would or try and work out a trade.

That bottom pairing is better than the one we watched in the playoffs but again, if you think Sully is going to roll with that I think you are mistaken.

Rutherford said today that the team needs to get younger and hungrier. Does that mean they go with a youth movement? He also said 'CHANGES" need to be made.
I'll believe it when I see it.

[bradshaw2ben]

Guentzel is tied to Crosby especially if that is what Sid wants.

I ragged on him during the playoffs but you would try and trade Zucker? He played less than 20 games for the Birds. And they gave up a first rounder next year and their top defensive prospect for him. He gets at least another year to show.

I like Adam Johnson but like Lafferty, if either makes a mistake they are stuck in the Sullivan doghouse painting the interior.

Bugjstad is useless. If you can expose him over Horny I would or try and work out a trade.

That bottom pairing is better than the one we watched in the playoffs but again, if you think Sully is going to roll with that I think you are mistaken.

Rutherford said today that the team needs to get younger and hungrier. Does that mean they go with a youth movement? He also said 'CHANGES" need to be made.
I'll believe it when I see it.

Both Hornqvist and Bjugstad have to be exposed. Actually, I just realized I only protected 7 forwards anyway, so they could protect Letang and Ruhwedel.

I'm not against Zucker getting more of a chance, I just like the other wingers more.
I'm sorry: after Jack Johnson, Sid gets what he wants only if it makes sense. Geno-Rust-Jake is the best line they've ever had in the Geno-Sid era. It's silly to break that up into two inferior lines. Poulin and Simon would be a great pair/solid match for Sid. And they're going to get opponents' 2nd best defenders more often.

[Pabst]

Gonchar, Martin, and Recchi have all been let go.

Martin is the only one in that group that is somewhat surprising to me.

[fractalsteel]

Martin is 67 but the PK was pretty good all year.
I figured Recchic was gone because the PP wasn't up to par.
Gonchar, who knows but someone should have been given some credit for the job done with Marino.

I think this is a message to Sully-get it right and fixed or you are next.

[bradshaw2ben]

I'm a little surprised about Gonchar and very surprised about Martin. I thought the PK was great.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Can't help but to think there was some sort of confusing trade that happened that pretty much started all of this.

A trade that I often see cited as the trade that spiraled into several other bad trades and the slow loss of an identity. Something that maybe happened a few years ago.


Hmm.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Pabst]

Tell me where I'm wrong.

I'm getting confused with your thinking around the expansion draft:

EXPOSED REQUIRED:
* One defenseman who is a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played in at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons: Jack Johnson

* Two forwards who are a) under contract in 2021-22 and b) played at least 40 NHL games the prior season or played in at least 70 NHL games in the prior two seasons: Patric Hornqvist & Patrick Marleau

* One goalie who is under contract in 2021-22 or will be a restricted free agent at the end of his current contract immediately prior to 2021-22: Matt Murray

If they take Letang, you re-sign Justin Schultz. If they take Hornqvist, you try and trade back for him. they're not taking either of those guys and their contracts though, when they can have Murray.

If Letang gets picked, how do they resign Schultz in this scenario? He's a UFA this year, and I doubt he'll be signing a 1 year deal in the offseason. I will say, though, that it might be worth exposing Letang in the draft - he'll be 34 with a large cap hit and only one year left on his deal.

Also, I don't like the idea of resigning both Murray and Jarry. If you're going to keep them both for the purpose of exposing one in the expansion draft, then why not just protect the starter and expose DeSmith? Take that $3 or $4m and spend it elsewhere.

Last thing - why is Marleau being mentioned at all here?

[bradshaw2ben]

Marceau meets the requirement for minimum exposure required.

I realized that I only protected 6 skaters, so you could protect all those guys plus lettang and another DMan of your choice.

[Pabst]

Marceau meets the requirement for minimum exposure required.

I realized that I only protected 6 skaters, so you could protect all those guys plus lettang and another DMan of your choice.

I think you're missing what I'm saying. Marleau is a UFA that isn't getting resigned. Why is he being brought up w/r/t the 2021 expansion draft? Ditto Schultz. Neither one will be on the Pens roster when the draft happens.

[bradshaw2ben]

I misread the rules. rFAs are included but not UFAs

[Pabst]

Well, the Caps getting throttled in Round 1 makes me feel somewhat better.

Was just looking at the Caps contract situation on Capfriendly and wow......have fun with that, Caps fans.

[Ice]

Can't help but to think there was some sort of confusing trade that happened that pretty much started all of this.

A trade that I often see cited as the trade that spiraled into several other bad trades and the slow loss of an identity. Something that maybe happened a few years ago.


Hmm.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Ryan Reaves? I think maybe more concerning is the number of players banished (Reaves included, btw) to Sully's Doghouse since 2017, never to return. When you begin to list them, it gets really long for only, really a three year period. Not sure what it says that the GM is acquiring these players and the coach is just refusing to use them, but it doesn't seem like it can be good.

Also, unfortunately, it looks like Milbury will only be reprimanded, not fired.

[fractalsteel]

Well, the Caps getting throttled in Round 1 makes me feel somewhat better.

Was just looking at the Caps contract situation on Capfriendly and wow......have fun with that, Caps fans.

Yeah, the two most disappointing teams in the last round were the Caps and Blues. The Caps looked as listless as the Pens.
He only had 4 points in the series but the Caps could never reign in Barzel. He gave them fits with his puck possession all series.

I see they are only giving teams a day off before the next round.

With no chicks around... Milbury, he just doesn't get the times we live in.

[Ice]

Milbury is pretty clueless about everything. Why I was hoping he'd get the axe.

Speaking of axes, Caps shitcanned Rierden for his team's listless, lackluster performance. That's one year removed from a Cup. First in franchise history.

How many more mulligans is Sully gonna get, again?

[fractalsteel]

It was only something like 4-5 years ago that Milbury said Ovechkin was the greatest player in NHL history. Said it on the pregame. The looks he got from the other two were priceless.

I think Sullivan is on the hot seat this year.

I thought not having Backstrom for the first three games might have saved some jobs in Washington.

[fractalsteel]

https://www.nhl.com/news/pittsburgh-pen ... -318719286

Pens, possibly looking to move a tender? Make what you will of it. Might be trying to generate some interest, who knows?

[Pabst]

TRADE ALERT

Looks like Kasperi Kapanen is coming back to the Pens. No details available yet.

EDIT:

Details for Penguins:
RW Kasperi Kapanen
D Jesper Lindgren
LW Pontus Aberg

Maples Leafs getting:
2020 Rd 1 pick (15 overall)
LW Evan Rodrigues
C Filip Hallander
D David Warsofsky

[Ice]

This is essentially Kapanen for 15 and Hallander, right? Not great.

[Pabst]

This is essentially Kapanen for 15 and Hallander, right? Not great.

Sounds like it.

I like Kapanen, but not at this price.

[fractalsteel]

So we gave up the 15th pick and a prospect for a guy who ultimately might be a bottom six forward?

I hope it works out but in my gut I have this feeling that this is trade that gets Rutherford fired in the coming years.

[Ice]

Yeah, I don't mind anything that gets Simon off Crosby's wing, and the RH shot should help the PP (where we definitely missed Kessel). It also pretty much cements the top 6 into a really solid one, assuming Jake/Sid/Kap and Zuck/Geno/Rust.

There was some strong buzz on Hallander, moreso than on Kap at his age, so having to throw the 15th pick in seems way too steep.

Somebody who knows more than I (Greek, I'm looking at you) will have to tell me about the defenseman.

Lotta work left to do on bottom 6 and D, and two less assets to do it with.

[Ice]

So we gave up the 15th pick and a prospect for a guy who ultimately might be a bottom six forward?

I hope it works out but in my gut I have this feeling that this is trade that gets Rutherford fired in the coming years.

It's not like he's never traded a 1st for a 4th liner/healthy scratch before. Just ask Hacksaw, he'll be happy to tell you about it.

The thing is, will Sullivan give the kid a chance, or does he add to the long list of buried acquisitions?

[Pabst]

You don't pay that price if you don't intend to play KK in a top 6 role.......at least that's what I'm going to keep telling myself. And honestly, who is the better option at RW next to Sid?

I'm 100% fine with Simon in the role of 13th forward.

Have to hope that they are going to get a return on Murray/Jarry.

More than anything, this shows that the Pens are all in for the next 2 seasons. A pick in the mid 1st isn't going to be a meaningful contributor before year 3 - at that point Malkin and Letang are gone and Sid will be 35. Hopefully we can enjoy the next 2 years, because the years after that look pretty bleak (although not as bad as the mess that Detroit, Chicago, and LA got themselves into).

[Ice]

Now a decent return on a Murray trade (3C so we can ditch Bugs?), getting rid of Jack Johnson and getting a bottom pair defenseman are the remaining issues.

[Pabst]

Now a decent return on a Murray trade (3C so we can ditch Bugs?), getting rid of Jack Johnson and getting a bottom pair defenseman are the remaining issues.

If we can dump JJ, I will happily roll with Ruh and Riikola as the 3rd pairing. Please God anything but Schultz and Johnson.

On that note, how is POJ developing?

[Ice]

A pair of kitchen trash bins would have been an improvement.

POJ is doing well, will likely get a hard look in camp. He, Poulin and Legare are probably our best prospects.

I had read Poulin might get a top six look in camp this year, and this trade effectively blocks him for a couple of years.

Was looking forward to seeing what he could do.

Edit: forgot about Bellerive and the college defenseman they just signed.

[fractalsteel]

Yeah, I get that Kapenen is going to get a shot on the top six, probably penciled in there now. I think if he doesn't impress Sully then I see the scenario that Ice alluded to happening.

As far as JJ and next season, someone is going to have to go to his house and take him out, for good.

The plan is the plan, keep it together for a couple of seasons and try and load up when you can. One problem, they don't have any more first rounders until 2022.

[Ice]

If Kap ends up bottom six, along with Tanev and Horny, and potentially still McCann and Bugs, that is a shit ton of cap $ tied up in that area. Like, a pretty crazy shit ton.

Those should be young, cheap, hungry energy guys. This is really starting to look like the end of the Bylsma/Shero regime, from that point of view.

When this ship goes down, it's not going to be pretty. Enjoy this core while we can.