Let's talk CBs

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Steelafan77
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Re: Let's talk CBs

Post by Steelafan77 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:53 pm

I agree cop. When I saw those Shrine game measurables I was a bit relieved. I was wondering how a 170 pound CB was going to play the run especially in the NFL and survive. IMO, Smith seems like the perfect Steelers mid-late RND prospect they like to target. 4th RND to 6th RND. I think Smith is a fit for the defense but then again with Butler running the show theses days is there going to be some conceptual changes or will Butler run a hybrid LeBeau system? I find this scenario Fascinating myself and can't wait to watch a new Steelers defensive era take shape.

The reason I listed Smith's bio wasn't necessarily for the measurables as much as it was for the accomplishments. What Smith has done at the collegiate level weighing in at 170 pounds by itself is impressive. I can't remember the last time I weighed 170 pounds. :lol:


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Post by Suwanee88 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:44 am

bradshaw2ben wrote:Marcus Peters. Holy shit.
5115 198

THE best CB I've looked at... maybe ever, in terms of the stuff I like in a CB. Let's see-- premium, Richard Sherman like ball skills and anticipation. Ability to cover deep threats, big dudes, and slot guys. Hits, wraps, tackles in open field. Can excel in off man... transitions and makes plays/tackles short of sticks. Aggressive, violent hitter. Can also line up over a guy and erase him. Can play on an island with no fear. Plays with a chip on his shoulder. As a Sophomore just absolutely erased Brandin Cooks. The next NFL CB superstar waiting to happen.

Why do I bother mentioning him, since a guy like that would be a top 5 pick? Apparently he choked his position coach in practice, after a series of sideline outbursts where he questioned the coaches decisions/coaching. Was suspended twice for similar behavior and then dismissed from team. What does it mean? Could he be available for the Steelers at 1.22 and would they ever take a guy like that?

First off, I think he'll be long gone, because all it takes is one team to say they don't care about the incidents. However, this is the league that knocked Dan Marino and Dez Bryant down 20-30 slots, so who knows? The most positive spin I can put on it is: the kid was happy and successful with the previous "players coach" regime and simply freaked out with the new coaching staff coming in and upsetting the apple cart. He's a team leader and felt he had to speak out against what he felt was wrong. He's a city kid, from Oakland, and the situation escalated. He's a childhood friend of Marshawn Lynch and Lynch has been mentoring him for years-- it's very similar to the trouble Marshawn Lynch had in Buffalo. Lynch moved on to Seattle and has thrived under a players' coach. A place like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Arizona, Dallas, or Seattle would be a good environment for him, in all likelihood. Then again, you could have another Blount or Ta'amu on your hands.

As a player, I haven't seen anyone in this draft class yet who should be picked before him.

I have had some time this weekend and watched a lot highlight film on this guy.....very impressive. What I like about him is his unique ability to anticipate plays - he has a lot of Troy in him. He is all over the field - but has the ability to cover and watch the QB too which is special.

I am guessing he is going to wow some people at the combine and if the Steelers pass on him because of his past then piss on EMR.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:43 am

For those who don't think Marcus Peters being mentored by Marshawn Lynch is a good thing:
http://therumpus.net/2015/01/a-super-bowl-preview-for-people-who-dont-know-football-2015-edition/
Whether the cause of his football ability is talent, work ethic, or an extra placenta, Marshawn’s athleticism and academic performance got him into the University of California—Berkeley, where he was a star for the Golden Bears football team and earned a 3.2 GPA as a Social Welfare major. Before he even began his NFL career, he understood that he could leverage his status as a prominent athlete to make a difference in his community, the way people like Delton Edwards and his uncles had made a difference for him.

When Marshawn went pro and picked an agent—naturally, a local Bay Area guy named Doug Hendrickson—Doug was amazed at his new client’s focus. “In the first meeting, he wasn’t asking about his contract,” he told Peter King. “Honest to God, his dream was to build a youth center for kids in Oakland.”

In 2011, Marshawn teamed up with a cousin, NFL quarterback Josh Johnson, to launch a Bay Area non-profit called the Fam 1st Family Foundation. He hosts hundreds of kids each year at a free football camp, and plans to do much more; his fully-realized youth complex will have a computer lab, a gymnasium, a music studio, and will increasingly segue from its current focus on sports. “The main component we want to teach is basic life skills I feel a lot of kids are missing,” Marshawn said to Sports Illustrated. “How to balance a checkbook, create a résumé, how to fill out a job application, how to speak with confidence one-on-one.”

“This is not a vanity project,” says supporter and current California Lieutenant Governor Gavin Newsom, who met Marshawn when Gavin was mayor of San Francisco. “I’ve been in this racket long enough to have seen a lot of athletes who are just going through the motions, just checking a box. Marshawn has a deep commitment. He genuinely cares about his community, which is inspiring to see. Not only is he going to get this place built, but I’m going to predict the doors will never close.”

In addition to the non-profit and the youth center, Marshawn also does a lot of day-to-day assistance with disadvantaged children, from turkeys on Thanksgiving and presents on Christmas to free tickets to games and tours of the locker room. Pointedly, he’s disallowed the team’s media relations staff from inviting the press to witness any of these interactions with kids and their families.

“I think he’s a great philanthropist. He does anything for kids,” says Richard Sherman, one of the handful of other Seahawks who have started a non-profit. “And I think that if more people saw that side of him, they would look at him differently.”

“I feel that’s most important,” Marshawn told 710 ESPN Seattle. “To put a different light into their lives and let them know that they actually do have a chance.”

In saying so, Marshawn seems redolent of James Baldwin, who wrote in Nothing Personal: “It is necessary, while in darkness, to know that there is a light somewhere, to know that in oneself, waiting to be found, there is a light.”

“Generations do not cease to be born,” Baldwin continues in the same essay. “And we are responsible to them because we are the only witnesses they have.”

Marshawn says, “Most people told me growing up that I would either be dead or in jail by the age of 18. I have friends that didn’t make it to 18. I’ve got homeboys now that have been in jail since they was 16. This is something that I wanted to change in my neighborhood. I felt if I could influence one kid to try to help them through life, that’s a win for me.”
1 20 Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia
2 51 TRADE: Brandon Aiyuk, WR
3 84 Hunter Nourzad, C, Penn State
3× 98 Jarvis Brownlee, Jr., CB, Florida State
4 128 Qwan'tez Stiggers, DB, Toronto Argonauts

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:18 pm

Jacoby Glenn. Redshirt sophomore. CB on FBS number 1 pass defense. Played a lot of off man coverage as the cb on an island, earlier in career played closer to the line with success.

All-American 6002, 178

I think he may be more suited to FS but, since he's barely scratched the surface of what he can do, and hasn't found anything he can't do... Lots of intriguing talent.
1 20 Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia
2 51 TRADE: Brandon Aiyuk, WR
3 84 Hunter Nourzad, C, Penn State
3× 98 Jarvis Brownlee, Jr., CB, Florida State
4 128 Qwan'tez Stiggers, DB, Toronto Argonauts

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Post by Steelperch » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:44 am

Steve Nelson keeps on growing on me. He does everything well that the Steelers ask their corners to do. The guy competes every damn snap. Very aggressive player. He is built well and strong, gets a good jam in man to man coverage. In off coverage he closes the gap quick instead of keeping that 5-10 yard cushion and makes breaks on the ball or delivers a big pop to receiver. He is tough in run support too. He may only be 5'10 and he may only run 4.55, but the guy is a football player.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:16 am

what do you think of Glenn, Perch? I think he's still learning the game and still just a kid-- but there is something there. Does a lot of things well in varying kinds of coverage.
1 20 Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia
2 51 TRADE: Brandon Aiyuk, WR
3 84 Hunter Nourzad, C, Penn State
3× 98 Jarvis Brownlee, Jr., CB, Florida State
4 128 Qwan'tez Stiggers, DB, Toronto Argonauts

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Post by Legacy User » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:11 am

SP wrote:Steve Nelson keeps on growing on me. He does everything well that the Steelers ask their corners to do. The guy competes every damn snap. Very aggressive player. He is built well and strong, gets a good jam in man to man coverage. In off coverage he closes the gap quick instead of keeping that 5-10 yard cushion and makes breaks on the ball or delivers a big pop to receiver. He is tough in run support too. He may only be 5'10 and he may only run 4.55, but the guy is a football player.


Another Senior Bowl standout, too. Charles Davis couldn't stop talking about "Mighty Mouse" during that game. He certainly fits the mold of a later-round Steelers CB pick ala William Gay.

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Post by Steelperch » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:22 am

bradshaw2ben wrote:Jacoby Glenn. Redshirt sophomore. CB on FBS number 1 pass defense. Played a lot of off man coverage as the cb on an island, earlier in career played closer to the line with success.

All-American 6002, 178

I think he may be more suited to FS but, since he's barely scratched the surface of what he can do, and hasn't found anything he can't do... Lots of intriguing talent.


I like that he practiced against Breshard Perriman every day, both NFL caliber players. I can only remember watching him vs Penn State the last two years and in the Bowl game vs NC State this year. He made a nice diving pick on Hackenberg this year, but I remember them getting some passes in on him too. Last year I remember Allen Robinson having a big day against UCF, cant remember who covered him though. I need to see more tape of him to get a better grasp though.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:52 pm

I've been watching Glenn in Geathers' tape and in this year's bowl game. BTW, I like all three UCF WRs from this year as future NFL players. Hall and Reese can play a little... QB performance for that team was, in a word, bad.

Peters
.
.
.
Golson
Nelson
Glenn
Gunter
White
Rowe as CB

That looks like the value buy
1 20 Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia
2 51 TRADE: Brandon Aiyuk, WR
3 84 Hunter Nourzad, C, Penn State
3× 98 Jarvis Brownlee, Jr., CB, Florida State
4 128 Qwan'tez Stiggers, DB, Toronto Argonauts

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Post by Ice » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:19 am

Latest CBS Sports line mock has us taking Rollins at 22. Lot of impressive picks left on the board.
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Post by Steeldrama » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:12 am

Some blurbs on two corners I and several of you have mocked to the Steelers.

I posted... and I'm sure other have as well... that Talib is a fair comparison for Peters. It's not a question of talent but are the Steelers as strong as an organization as Talib's most recent teams the Pats and Broncos to take on a character risk such as this, or are the Steelers more like Talib's first team the Buccaneers lacking team leaders to mentor a Talib/Peters type of player? Is the organization as a whole willing to make a commitment on a first round pick with an alleged behavior issue or will they continue to play it safe with their 1st round pick? All I know is that it's a good thing that Peters is not the only corner in the draft. That would suck.

LSU redshirt junior CB Jalen Collins is "what you are looking for in an NFL cornerback with his length and speed," said an NFC director of personnel.
"They all have holes, but Collins is what you are looking for in an NFL cornerback with his length and speed. He isn't there yet, but he has the traits and ability to become a high-end starter and maybe the best cornerback from this draft," the director of personnel said. The 6-foot-2, 205-pound Collins is indeed bigger and faster than the majority of corners in this class. "While this year's draft lacks an elite cornerback prospect, Collins (6-foot-2, 198 pounds) has a rare combination of height, weight and speed, and this director of personnel rates him as potentially the top player at his position," wrote NFL Media draft analyst Lance Zierlein. "His technique in coverage is a work in progress, but Collins' physical traits and instincts at making plays on the ball set him apart from the rest of this year's prospects."
Source: NFL.com


NFL Media draft analyst Lance Zierlein believes Washington junior CB Marcus Peters best pro comparison is Denver Broncos Aqib Talib.
"Both entered the draft with off-field concerns. They show similar body language when things don't go their way on the field and are both volatile, but their playing styles are similar, too. They both love to attack the ball and sit down on routes to try to make things happen, Zierlein wrote. Peters was suspended for one game after he was seen throwing his helmet and gloves and arguing with Washington assistants during a win against Eastern Washington in September. Reports said he also choked a coach, though Washington defensive coordinator Pete Kwiatkowski refuted those claims. The Washington prospect made his debut on Mel Kiper's Big Board at No. 24.
Source: NFL.com
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:35 pm

I like some things about Jalen Collins's game. He is very good at taking away the deep ball... can turn and run, gets head around, makes plays on the ball... has the length and speed. He can play some man but Amari Cooper beat him on every 1 on 1 to the inside-- some of that is technique and some of it is Amari Cooper is pretty good.

There is one thing I don't like about Collins, and in previous years under DLB, it would have really pushed him down. It's still a negative but perhaps it won't matter as much with new defensive concepts in play-- Collins is not very good... actually bad at breaking forward on the football in zone. He's a smart player... you can see him identifying trick plays, adapting on the fly. He either doesn't anticipate underneath throws or doesn't react well to the ball in the air.

Good thing he's not the only CB in the draft. ;)
1 20 Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia
2 51 TRADE: Brandon Aiyuk, WR
3 84 Hunter Nourzad, C, Penn State
3× 98 Jarvis Brownlee, Jr., CB, Florida State
4 128 Qwan'tez Stiggers, DB, Toronto Argonauts

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Post by Steelperch » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:27 pm

I agree that Collins technique is a work in progress. I trust him on the deep stuff, but he can be beat inside and underneath. That might be a function of his length and not having that top end change of direction ability that a lot of the bigger corners tend to lack. I like him as a prospect though.

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Post by lifelongsteel » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:56 pm

Can you evaluator types give us a read on how these top corners fit into our schemes/techniques?

Who's a fit for what we do?

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:26 pm

Before a long answer-- 1st off who knows what our system or scheme is? Even if not a lot changes, how much of what they did was because of the limitations of the CBs or safeties?

Peters defies scheme. Jalen Collins looks like our guys, for better or worse. Glenn from UCF Rowe from Utah and the Virginia S/CB all play the zone man hybrid our guys play on the outside. I think Senquez Gooson might be the best fit, Nelson and white from TCU would be good in any system but all three lack ideal size.
1 20 Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia
2 51 TRADE: Brandon Aiyuk, WR
3 84 Hunter Nourzad, C, Penn State
3× 98 Jarvis Brownlee, Jr., CB, Florida State
4 128 Qwan'tez Stiggers, DB, Toronto Argonauts

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Post by lifelongsteel » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:40 pm

bradshaw2ben wrote:Before a long answer-- 1st off who knows what our system or scheme is? Even if not a lot changes, how much of what they did was because of the limitations of the CBs or safeties?

Peters defies scheme. Jalen Collins looks like our guys, for better or worse. Glenn from UCF Rowe from Utah and the Virginia S/CB all play the zone man hybrid our guys play on the outside. I think Senquez Gooson might be the best fit, Nelson and white from TCU would be good in any system but all three lack ideal size.


Thx. I have completely talked myself into Peters.

I think edge rush value clusters will be 5-15 and 40-60 with lots of projects to scoop up in the 5th round or later. Which would make the ideal first couple of days of draft something like this
1) Peters
2) best pass rushing OLB available (unless somehow Maxx falls)
3) BPA S, TE

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Post by Aussie_steeler » Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:08 am

First detailed interview I have seen from Marcus Peters

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2015/02/11/marcus-peters-washington-nfl-draft-combine/23259443/

Everyone can read it and make up their own minds.

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Post by Legacy User » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:48 pm

Aussie_steeler wrote:First detailed interview I have seen from Marcus Peters

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2015/02/11/marcus-peters-washington-nfl-draft-combine/23259443/

Everyone can read it and make up their own minds.


Good read. To me the biggest problem with Peters is he wants to play press all the time...if we get a chance to take him it might indicate Butler wants to move that way.

About J Collins...I watched that Bama tape myself, and I think there were communication problems in the secondary. They were caught arguing and out of position several times...and Collins gave Cooper that inside release with his alignment...he either thought he had help, or he had his head up his ass. If it's a flaw, it's more a mental mistake. If they run as I anticipate, I'm going to have him 2, behind Hall, and just ahead of Waynes.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:11 pm

Hall? Where do you have Peters?

Also, despite his reluctance, Peters looked good in press.

You may be right about communication but Collins' is really slow to break on routes in zone, so that free release he gave Amari might just be about movement skills
1 20 Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia
2 51 TRADE: Brandon Aiyuk, WR
3 84 Hunter Nourzad, C, Penn State
3× 98 Jarvis Brownlee, Jr., CB, Florida State
4 128 Qwan'tez Stiggers, DB, Toronto Argonauts

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Post by Legacy User » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:08 pm

I meant Peters. For some reason I confuse the name with the OSU G that shot double birds to the Mich fans.

I got him 1. And Peter's was bitching about not playing enough press.

As far as Collins goes, that's his worse tape. And I would have to check but he looks like he's set up to funnel him inside while he's in man over and over...that can't happen. I'm guessing there were new wrinkles for the Bama game because the LSU secondary was lights out last season.

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:41 pm

a CB for every round:
1. Marcus Peters, Washington
2. Jacoby Glenn, UCF
3. Steven Nelson, Oregon State
4. Senquez Golson, Ole Miss
5. JaCorey Shepherd, Kansas
6. Quandre Diggs, Texas
7. Julian Wilson, Oklahoma
UDFA. Steven Murphy, South Carolina State
1 20 Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia
2 51 TRADE: Brandon Aiyuk, WR
3 84 Hunter Nourzad, C, Penn State
3× 98 Jarvis Brownlee, Jr., CB, Florida State
4 128 Qwan'tez Stiggers, DB, Toronto Argonauts

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Post by Steeldrama » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:46 am

Ronald Darby - DB - Seminoles
FSU CB Ronald Darby has "world-class speed," notes NFL Media draft analyst Lance Zierlein.
"Easy swivel to his hips with ability to open, run and hit top speed quickly," Zierlein wrote. The 5-foot-11, 188-pound corner ran a 21.05-second 200-meter dash in high school. TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline likes Darby as a prospect, but wrote that he has a ways to go before he is NFL-ready. Pauline is concerned with the fact that he's been beaten by numerous No. 1 receivers, including DeVante Parker and Phillip Dorsett.
Source: NFL.com Feb 13 - 2:34 AM

I'm a fan of PJ Williams. Do any of you like Darby? Haven't seen him discussed much. Figure he fits Tomlins speed mantra.
Nick Markakis on Astros: "Every guy over there needs a beating."

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Post by Steeldrama » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:00 am

Julian Wilson - DB - Sooners
NFL Media draft analyst Lance Zierlein noted that Oklahoma CB Julian Wilson is a "heralded high school sprinter with blazing straight-line speed."
"Expected to run a blazing 40 time at NFL Scouting Combine," Zierlein wrote. "His combine speed will have people talking, as will his size and the classroom efforts that have helped him earn Academic All-Big 12 honors for four straight years." The 6-foot-2, 201-pound Wilson possesses the size the NFL craves, and is also intelligent, having graduated in 2013 and been named to the Academic All-Big 12 First Team multiple times.
Source: NFL.com Feb 13 - 12:54 AM

Zach Sanchez a kid that always seems to stand out to me whenever I watch an Oklahoma game (how does Bob Stoops still have his job) but his opposite corner Wilson looks like another speed player that will be on Tomlins radar
Nick Markakis on Astros: "Every guy over there needs a beating."

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Post by bradshaw2ben » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:35 am

Wilson a very smart kid and team leader--- you just don't see CBs so tall/long and that fast. Nice late round project a la Ike Taylor.

Let's not get carried away with the "Mike Tomlin likes speed guys" meme-- they drafted Jarvis Jones, for crying out loud. It's really just Shazier and Ulysses S. Archer that were basically speed guys.

I can't recall who said it but the take was: PJ Williams high floor, ready now; Darby higher ceiling, needs work
1 20 Amarius Mims, OT, Georgia
2 51 TRADE: Brandon Aiyuk, WR
3 84 Hunter Nourzad, C, Penn State
3× 98 Jarvis Brownlee, Jr., CB, Florida State
4 128 Qwan'tez Stiggers, DB, Toronto Argonauts

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Post by Suwanee88 » Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:22 pm

Back to the Future!

There are some serious draft freaks in this thread. As always, I enjoy the writing and predictions!

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