Pirates vs. Dodgers - Game 99

[Legacy User]

Stats until age 32 is utterly irrelevant. That would be measuring what he's done already. Which is not the issue. It's what he can -- might -- could do.

Not everybody explodes out of the gate. That's a separate topic.

Mickey Mantle's first season : BA .267

[Legacy User]

Clemente's first season (1955) : BA .255

Stargell's first (full) season (1963) : BA .243

Barry Bonds first season (1986) BA .233

check there stats up till age 32.. hell stargell had 48 dingers and mvp talk at Martinez current age 31. I don't see that in his cards! ever

[Legacy User]

Newsbreak : You're not God. You don't see the future. That's what you're presuming to do. And when you do it you're FOS.

We're all Bozos on this bus, Amigo.

Point is, nobody can say how good he might turn out to be. Pretending you can is bogus. All we can do is guess and pretend that it's more than that.

How may people wanted to get rid of Jordy Mercer just a couple of months ago ?????????????????????????????

[Legacy User]

Stats until age 32 is utterly irrelevant. That would be measuring what he's done already. Which is not the issue. It's what he can -- might -- could do.

Not everybody explodes out of the gate. That's a separate topic.

Mickey Mantle's first season : BA .267

seriously? name one great player who started a great career at 32... this guy has a career 180 batting average.. pitchers hit better!

[Legacy User]

Newsbreak : You're not God. You don't see the future. That's what you're presuming to do. And when you do it you're FOS.

We're all Bozos on this bus, Amigo.

Point is, nobody can say how good he might turn out to be. Pretending you can is bogus. All we can do is guess and pretend that it's more than that.

How may people wanted to get rid of Jordy Mercer just a couple of months ago ?????????????????????????????

ill go out in limb..this guy will never be in hall of fame..unless he visits the building..

[Legacy User]

Bogus again. We aren't talking about him going to the Hall of Fame. Only being a good player.

How many people thought Josh Harrison was a steaming pile and a waste of roster space when the season started ???????????????? And being able to point to stats from occasional playing time made them feel like they were right. But they were FOS.

How many people thought Jose Tabata was the second coming of Clemente a few years ago ????????

How about Gaby Sanchez after his one freak great year ?????????

If Hurdle puts him out there, I support him until he does an Ishizawa or a Rodriguez. (Or a Grilli).

[Legacy User]

Lots of knashing of teeth in this thread... over Michael Martinez?

It was a bad outing for the Volcano. It's one loss. Everything's gonna be all right. Hey the pen pitched four scoreless innings!

[Legacy User]

Martinez isn't great yet, so he shouldn't play at all.

Yet you guys are livid that Polanco (who isn't great yet) isn't playing.

You (plural) make no earthly sense sometimes.

come on man, are you fucking kidding me??

they offered Polanco $50 fucking million dollars and he turned them down --

he's fucking GREAT, trust me, and everyone knows it

We have him on our roster NOW and he should be playing every fucking day -- and if he needs a day off, which he did not today, then they need a better option, such as JHay in Right and Pedro at 3rd -- not the sloppy shit that Hurdle put out there tonite

we were ready to knock Ryu out in the middle of the game == had him on the ropes -- and at that key moment, Matt fucking martino slaps a silly grounder to SS for the final out

We should NEVER be in the position where Matt Martiniezo is being counted on to help us win a game -- NEVER

[Legacy User]

Martinez is like 32 years old. I'm confident in saying that he is never going to be great!

mARTINEZO is a fucking bum -- it's a travesty that he's even on the roster, and it's a joke that hurdle started him tonite over polanco AND alvarez --- fucking jagoff

[Legacy User]

Lots of knashing of teeth in this thread... over Michael Martinez?

It was a bad outing for the Volcano. It's one loss. Everything's gonna be all right. Hey the pen pitched four scoreless innings!

Did u see the game?

Volcano wasn't that bad -- a couple of lucky bounces in favor of the Dodgers was the difference ---

And in the middle of the game, we had the chance to knock out Ryu -- we had him on the ropes -- and Martinioez FUCKING BLEW it

[Legacy User]

Lots of knashing of teeth in this thread... over Michael Martinez?

It was a bad outing for the Volcano. It's one loss. Everything's gonna be all right. Hey the pen pitched four scoreless innings!

Did u see the game?

Volcano wasn't that bad -- a couple of lucky bounces in favor of the Dodgers was the difference ---

And in the middle of the game, we had the chance to knock out Ryu -- we had him on the ropes -- and Martinioez FUCKING BLEW it

I did not see the game. Just some pieces of it from MLB network and followed along the game tracker app.

My point is it's one loss. Try to shake it off. The Pirates usually do.

[Legacy User]

Wait. Michael Martinez might turn into Roberto Clemente because Clemente had a poor batting average in his first season?

This is Martinez's fourth stint in the majors and he's played eight years in the minors. Roberto Clemente spent one year in the minors and played 13 big league seasons by the time he was Martinez's age.

Clemente had a whopping 148 minor league at bats in his career. Martinez has 2596.

Pretty much the same player.

[Legacy User]

Things "click" later for some than for others.

Again : the point at issue is whether he can turn into a good player, and he can.

Will is a different matter. As is "is likely to."

[jeemie]

Again : the point at issue is whether he can turn into a good player, and he can.

Yeah- I can become a good player too. Maybe things will start clicking for me at 46.



You are either playing with us or else:

You Went Full Retard

I hope it's the former, because I'd hate to think you are seriously going here with Michael Martinez.

[Legacy User]

So no athlete has ever had one great season (or a few) against all expectations and out of what seems like nowhere. And late in their careers.

IOW, about like the seasons JayHay & Jordy are having.

And about like the seasons Jack Wilson (All Star Team) and Jason Grilli had (past tense). And Gabby Sanchez has -- periodically.

I'm not saying he WILL. I'm saying he CAN. And you're not paying enough simple attention to what I'm saying to even be carrying on a conversation about it.

[SteelCityFan]

Simple Jack?

[Legacy User]

So no athlete has ever had one great season (or a few) against all expectations and out of what seems like nowhere. And late in their careers.

IOW, about like the seasons JayHay & Jordy are having.

And about like the seasons Jack Wilson (All Star Team) and Jason Grilli had (past tense). And Gabby Sanchez has -- periodically.

I'm not saying he WILL. I'm saying he CAN. And you're not paying enough simple attention to what I'm saying to even be carrying on a conversation about it.

Mercer, Harrison, Wilson are/were not late in their careers.

Grilli and Gaby are not career minor leaguers.

[SteelPro]

So no athlete has ever had one great season (or a few) against all expectations and out of what seems like nowhere. And late in their careers.

IOW, about like the seasons JayHay & Jordy are having.

And about like the seasons Jack Wilson (All Star Team) and Jason Grilli had (past tense). And Gabby Sanchez has -- periodically.

I'm not saying he WILL. I'm saying he CAN. And you're not paying enough simple attention to what I'm saying to even be carrying on a conversation about it.

You are so far out in the weeds with this it is ridiculous.

JHay is 26 years old. Mercer is 27. Gabby was 4th in the Rookie of the year voting at age 26 and was an all-star at age 27. Jack Wilson was a regular beginning at age 23 and was an all-star at age 26. Grilli was a 4th overall draft pick. He flamed out as a starting pitcher due to injuries and found success as reliever later, but like all these guys he a had a pedigree. They were at least somewhat regarded as prospects. And they all had real successes in their mid 20's

Michael Martinez was never regarded as a prospect. He was never drafted. He signed as free agent at age 23 after a tryout. He never had an exceptionally good season in the minors. It is amazing he made it to the big leagues at all. Why the Phillies made him Rule 5 pick at age 28 and kept him on the roster all year just to pinch run is one of the most perplexing roster moves I have ever seen. He is now 32 years old. There is no breakout coming for him. He is an org filler that has lucked into a major league paycheck for a few weeks due to an injury. God bless him for that. I have nothing against him and since he is here I'm ok with him getting an occasional game to play, but the thought that he will ever be anything in the major leagues is absurd. Name one undrafted player that had a breakout in his 30's. You can't. That unicorn doesn't exist. The Pirates are 1000% more likely to get a breakout if they brought back Brad Eldred, Lastings Milledge, and Brian Bixler. Frankly, I'd prefer Chase d'Arnaud to Michael Martinez.

[Legacy User]

More likely to lose Chase than Martinez I think. Not sure of his option situation.

[SteelPro]

More likely to lose Chase than Martinez I think. Not sure of his option situation.

Doubt it would matter. I don't think Barmes is coming back until after rosters are expanded.

[R_S]

PZ. how are you related to Michael Martinez? I have little doubt. This is crazy.

[jeemie]

BTW, re: JHay's great season.

He is fast becoming the latest entry in the encyclopedia under the category "Examples of What We Mean When We Say 'Regression to Mean'".

James Harrison's Disastrous July

[Legacy User]

BTW, re: JHay's great season.

He is fast becoming the latest entry in the encyclopedia under the category "Examples of What We Mean When We Say 'Regression to Mean'".

James Harrison's Disastrous July

James Harrison can't hit for shit.

Anyone with half a brain knew Harrison would come down to earth.

Thankfully the Pirates didn't do something monumentally stupid like trade a player that led the league in homers last year because Harrison made him expendable.

[Legacy User]

So no athlete has ever had one great season (or a few) against all expectations and out of what seems like nowhere. And late in their careers.

IOW, about like the seasons JayHay & Jordy are having.

And about like the seasons Jack Wilson (All Star Team) and Jason Grilli had (past tense). And Gabby Sanchez has -- periodically.

I'm not saying he WILL. I'm saying he CAN. And you're not paying enough simple attention to what I'm saying to even be carrying on a conversation about it.

You are so far out in the weeds with this it is ridiculous.

JHay is 26 years old. Mercer is 27. Gabby was 4th in the Rookie of the year voting at age 26 and was an all-star at age 27. Jack Wilson was a regular beginning at age 23 and was an all-star at age 26. Grilli was a 4th overall draft pick. He flamed out as a starting pitcher due to injuries and found success as reliever later, but like all these guys he a had a pedigree. They were at least somewhat regarded as prospects. And they all had real successes in their mid 20's

Michael Martinez was never regarded as a prospect. He was never drafted. He signed as free agent at age 23 after a tryout. He never had an exceptionally good season in the minors. It is amazing he made it to the big leagues at all. Why the Phillies made him Rule 5 pick at age 28 and kept him on the roster all year just to pinch run is one of the most perplexing roster moves I have ever seen. He is now 32 years old. There is no breakout coming for him. He is an org filler that has lucked into a major league paycheck for a few weeks due to an injury. God bless him for that. I have nothing against him and since he is here I'm ok with him getting an occasional game to play, but the thought that he will ever be anything in the major leagues is absurd. Name one undrafted player that had a breakout in his 30's. You can't. That unicorn doesn't exist. The Pirates are 1000% more likely to get a breakout if they brought back Brad Eldred, Lastings Milledge, and Brian Bixler. Frankly, I'd prefer Chase d'Arnaud to Michael Martinez.

well said voice on sanity!!!