Rutherford Primed for Third Consecutive Disastrous Offseason

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Hacksaw Jim Duggan
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Rutherford Primed for Third Consecutive Disastrous Offseason

Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Fri May 24, 2019 3:00 am

After the Gudbranson trade, my diminishing hope in Jim Rutherford righting the ship quickly plunged into the Mariana Trench. To Gudbranson's credit, he did assert himself as "not a turd sandwich" and put on an great display for a bottom pairing guy. He still had issues sniffing out plays in the defensive zone, and he couldn't get the puck out of danger to save his life, but he wasn't a total dumpster fire as predicted. Good for Gudbranson. Maybe he will be a decent guy you can plug into a bottom pairing now that he's out of Vancouver...just not with the Penguins. Why? Because he doesn't help what they do. At this point, Rutherford doesn't seem to remember what they do.

The bad news is, not sucking means Jimmy R won't be able to "fix his mistake" and trade the guy. The Penguins will be saddled with $4 million of future suck on their bottom pairing that doesn't move the needle either way when someone at not even half the cost could come in and suck just as much. If you're interested in becoming educated, in the past I've called this poor asset management. Gudbranson won't help the transition game the Penguins so sorely missed against the Islanders this playoff season. He won't provide scoring from the backside the Penguins haven't had for seasons now. Hell, Jamie Oleksiak had a brief jump from "sucks dick" to "kinda sucks dick" for about 20 games after the initial Dallas trade. We saw how that scenario played out. I don't know how many D men 22-year-old Pettersson will have to drag along the ice next season. Hopefully it's zero.

I didn't have the Penguins pegged to make the playoffs after the Gudbranson trade, but thanks to Matt Murray having a hell of a couple months and Crosby beasting his way to 100 points, it was made a reality. Unfortunately, the team was exposed for what they were...and disposed of very quickly by the Islanders. Were the Penguins even in the playoffs for a week?


As it stands now, the two worst "starters" on the Penguins defense are making $7.5 million against the cap. If how the playoffs began is any indication, one of those guys (Jack Johnson) might even be in the press box. Yikes. Of course, Jack Johnson was the big addition from Jimmy R's Summer of Suck, Vol. 2.


How do you turn a perennial Stanley Cup contender into a paper tiger? Ladies and Gents, I present the beginning of Jimmy R's Summer of Suck, Vol. 3.

Image



You do things like this. I bet buddies of mine that the salaries of Phil Kessel, Sheary, and Maatta this offseason will more or less turn into Jack Johnson, Erik Gudbranson, and the raise for Jake Guentzel. Whelp, here we are in this terrible, terrible world. With the recent trade rumor today from Josh Yohe, it's looking mighty like Phil Kessel's trade value will be sunk in a salary dump of Jack Johnson. Remember when Jimmy R. made fun of the Columbus Blue Jackets for benching Jacky Boi to start the playoffs last season? Whoops! Remember when Jimmy R. TRIPLED DOWN on Johnson and told the fans to stop making fun of him? Haha!

I think it's the point now where you can call Phil Kessel a problem. He produced on the power play, but the combination of a Johnson pairing plus "Bad Malkin" made it way too obvious that Phil is nonexistent and not a commodity defensively for this team. Phil is such a value capwise at this point, so the team has to get value for their most valuable trade piece. It's really looking like they aren't. In the best case scenario, the Penguins find teams to dump both Gudbranson and Johnson. Because of how much better Gudbranson played, they may even get positive value in that deal.

The worst thing the Penguins can do is package either with Kessel. The best they can do is drop at least half of Kessel's salary in a deal.

The second line was a nonfactor for the majority of the season and in the playoffs. If the first line gets shut down, as it did, the second line has to pick up the slack.

Don't get me wrong. No Phil and no Johnson probably reduces the Penguins Goals Against by about 25. That's if I'm being generous. But the proposed deal of Kessel and Johnson is such a horrific downgrade of talent. Rask carries his own issues with a higher price tag per season than Johnson. Zucker is certainly speedy and fits the mold of this team, but is Kessel only really worth a downgrade in 40 points per season and a swap of bad players with little to no cap relief?

As always, I'm a year (or two) ahead of the local and national media on what is right (and wrong) with the Penguins. This national article reads eerily similar to a thread I made that some deemed "chicken little" at the time.

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2019/04/17/penguins-playoff-exit-was-two-years-in-the-making/

The Pittsburgh Penguins loss to the New York Islanders was no fluke.

It was a result they earned and was due to them being outplayed and soundly beaten in pretty much every phase of the game by a Islanders team that looked faster, crisper, and smoother.

It was also not the result of something that simply happened overnight.


When you lose your identity, teams with one tend to smash your face into the ice.

On the off day between their losses in Games 3 and 4, defender Justin Schultz nailed a big part of the problem when he said this: “Our identity has changed over the years. We play fast and get the puck up quick. That’s what we do best. We haven’t done that this series.”


Oh wow! Justin with the hard hitting analysis. Where have I heard something like that?

From 2010 to 2016, the Pittsburgh Penguins lacked a team identity. That changed when Sullivan took the helm. The team was built on skill and speed throughout the lineup. It showed success. The team won back-to-back Stanley Cups with guys like Bryan Rust, Jake Guentzel, Tom Kuhnackl, and Conor Sheary.

--Hacksaw Jim Duggan
Woo doggy.

Rutherford is a highly flawed general manager. Mike Sullivan is falling into the trap that every single coach does after some level of success.

The amount of terrible errors and in-the-moment thinking that Rutherford has done over the last two seasons have maybe closed the window on the Malkin/Crosby era. Let's review.

Rutherford has shown his inability to understand what made his team successful in its two SC runs: quick puck movement (speed/forecheck) and 4 lines that can score.

The Ryan Reaves trade sacrificed a roster spot, a decent C prospect when the team was set to go with Greg McKegg a 3C to start the season, and 20 spots in the draft. We all know how that turned out. This was a universally panned move when it happened.


-- Hacksaw Jim Duggan


Back to the article...

In the years between their 2009 and 2016 championships the Penguins had become a deeply flawed team that was short on depth around its superstars and had rapidly developed a tendency to unravel whenever things didn’t go their way. They were almost like petulant children that would lose their composure when calls went against them and become almost infatuated with responding to even the slightest physical altercation. They reached rock bottom in this regard during the 2012 and 2013 postseason losses to the Philadelphia Flyers and Boston Bruins when they seemed to be playing a game where hits and responses were worth more than goals.


Oh man. It's like this guy reads my posts.



The day before the 2017 Stanley Cup Final began, Rutherford offered a look into where the team was going to be headed when he sounded off in an interview with Ken Campbell of The Hockey News. This is the key part:

“I hear year after year how the league and everyone loves how the Penguins play,” said Penguins GM Jim Rutherford. “‘They play pure hockey and they skate.’ Well, now it’s going to have to change and I feel bad about it, but it’s the only way we can do it. We’re going to have to get one or two guys…and some of these games that should be just good hockey games will turn into a sh—show. We’ll go right back to where we were in the ’70s and it’s really a shame.”

Emphasis added.

“We’re going to have to get one or two guys.”

He doubled down on it just days after the team won the Stanley Cup.

“We are going to try to add a player or two that maybe we can have more protection in our lineup. That’s not that easy because [coach Mike Sullivan] likes to roll four lines and you’ve got to plug a guy in that can play on a regular basis, but hopefully that’s what we can do.”


Lol! This guy DOES read my posts.


On draft night that year, the Penguins flipped their first-round pick and center Oskar Sundqvist to the St. Louis Blues for Ryan Reaves and a second-round pick, a trade that has turned out to be a significant loss for the Penguins in more ways than one, and it was a bad idea from the start. Not only did they move back 20 spots in the draft, but Sundqvist has turned into a solid third-line center for the Blues (a position the Penguins spent two years and countless assets trying to fill) while Reaves clearly never fit in with the Penguins’ style of play.

Sullivan barely used him, it shortened the team’s bench, and he was ultimately traded halfway through the season in the massive and complicated deal for Derick Brassard.

The problem with that sequence wasn’t necessarily the trade itself, but what it represented.


Super Genius. Clap. Clap. Clap Clap Clap.

Oskar Sundqvist. Hmm. How is that going?

Let me check who is in the Stanley Cup Finals.
Oh!

And how is that guy doing??

Image

Oh, me. That 4th line piece of shit had 4 goals (1 GW) and 4 assists and is in the top-5 in +/- for the playoffs. He's also averaging 15:59 mins of ice time per game.

But I see he's only at 44% faceoffs :( Useless!

Let's get back to the article from NBC that harps on the same points I made two years ago...

What it represented was a philosophical shift from the recipe that worked, and there is nothing that has happened since that trade that has put them back on track.


No way, dude!

Pretty much every significant roster move the Penguins have made since then (and there have been A LOT of them) has revolved around getting bigger, stronger players, especially on the blue line where Jamie Oleksiak, Jack Johnson, Erik Gudbranson were the significant additions over the past year. It resulted in a defense that lacks mobility, doesn’t move the puck well, and has simply zapped them of a lot of their transition game. Add that to the departures of forwards like Carl Hagelin and Conor Sheary and the team no longer has the speed and skating advantage that it used to have over its opponents.


But this board told me we need tuff guyz.

The most confusing thing about all of it is the roster construction and many of the moves seem — emphasis on seem — to be at odds with the way the coach has wanted the team to play from the day he arrived behind the bench. I know nothing of the working relationship between Rutherford and Sullivan and whether they remain on the same page as to how the team is built, but the optics of it all just seem strange.

They paid a significant price for Reaves, and the coach didn’t play him. The general manager championed the signing of Johnson all season, and despite playing in all 82 regular season games was deemed to be not worth a roster spot in the first game of the playoffs. A team that wants to play fast and beat teams in transition and with puck possession, suddenly has an inconsistent transition and possession game because the players on the back end can’t make the necessary plays to feed it. And that doesn’t even get into general manager’s fascination with trying to even the score with Wilson in Washington after he knocked Zach Astron-Reese out of the playoffs a year ago (something that ended up getting Oleksiak injured).


What is not understandable and defensible is willingly taking yourself away from something that worked. That is what the Penguins did, and it is a big part of why their season ended up going the way it did.

The moves they make this summer will tell us a lot as to what they learned from it.


Let's repeat that last line again.

The moves they make this summer will tell us a lot as to what they learned from it.


Kessel and Johnson for Zucker and Rask?

Yiikkkesssss..



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Post by Legacy User » Sat May 25, 2019 1:34 am

wow. excellent posting; why I come here!

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Post by fractalsteel » Sat May 25, 2019 1:20 pm

Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:But this board told me we need tuff guyz.



Making shit up again. One or two posters said such. Most of us, the vast majority said that time was needed to see if the trade would work out.
In hindsight, it was a dumb move which Rutherford has been making a habit of recently and correctly noted in your post.

It is unforgivable that the GM never made up for the lost speed with Sheary and Hagelin. Not saying losing those two particular players were the key ingredients to the shit season but we were noticeably slower without them.

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Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Sat May 25, 2019 7:41 pm

fractalsteel wrote:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:But this board told me we need tuff guyz.



Making shit up again. One or two posters said such. Most of us, the vast majority said that time was needed to see if the trade would work out.
In hindsight, it was a dumb move which Rutherford has been making a habit of recently and correctly noted in your post.

It is unforgivable that the GM never made up for the lost speed with Sheary and Hagelin. Not saying losing those two particular players were the key ingredients to the shit season but we were noticeably slower without them.



That's the problem with not knowing the plot. It's easy to get lumped in with the retards.

Come on Hack this trade isn't the beginning to the end for the Penguins.


Keep riding the fence.

Let's take a gander at the first page of the Ryan Reaves trade thread. Cause yeah let's see who is "making shit up"

Me thinks Sid's taken one too many cross checks from hacks like Brandon Dubinsky.
Me thinks Sid and Geno (maybe through Sully) asked JR for some protection.


Bling Collector Ben #1

As JR said, when you go out and get the guy who is the best at what he does, you have to pay for it. Reaves is the best at what he does, and it's something we need - toughness and grit and striking fear in the opponent.


retard steel #2

The real benefit in having an enforcer like this isn't that they can go get vengeance for Sid. Not that Reaves can't or won't do that. It just that isn't a night in and night out sort of thing for an enforcer in today's NHL. The real benefit is the preventative in that we can now put a hurting on your stars too. Bullets don't fly in a Cold War.


Steelpro #3


What I don’t like about the trade is that we gave up sunny. Not saying he is going to amount to much but we are EXTREMELY thin at C. Realize moves are to be made but we've now lost 3 centers :bones, sunny and Cullen. Knowing that Centers have significant value I'm not sure how we're going to address that easily

The only other person who knows what they're talking about: Donnie Brasco


came here to see what u knowledgable folks thought..more I see bout this the more I like..dude is tough bad ass!...watching pens in playoffs I kept wondering where our bad asses were to kick some ass and stop the mauling of sid!! I welcome this cat! dude looks fast too when needed.. I bet he turns into good scorer on pens instead of the laboring st louis offense too.like some here suggested I bet sully sid and gino all exspressed we need a bad hombre to help out at times! should be fun to watch!!


bam morris #4

Absolutely love the trade! He will become a fan favorite the first time he punishes an opposing player for fucking with Crosby. Look for that to happen right out of the gate to send teams a message that messing with Crosby gets your ass kicked. With that said, I firmly believe in eye for an eye. If the other team wants to fuck with Crosby, have Reaves knock their #1 guy the fuck out!


almanac #5

This is on the first page before I said much of anything. Haha! Of course that thread digresses to talking about other needs and the like. Here was something I found pretty fun on page 2.


I'm finding it odd that when I mentioned "retaliation" or at least some kind of return physicality during the jackets and caps series, I was quickly corrected and told this is not the penguins, and goonish behavior is frowned upon.

Now the pens get Reaves, and everybody is happy they have an "enforcer" who can play hockey?


Lol, this guy gets it.

Shall I dig up knob slobbering over the physicality of Gudbranson, Reaves, and Oleksiak in game threads? Please, continue to post about how you think the best player on the Blues is the key to the Blues winning.

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Post by Donnie Brasco » Tue May 28, 2019 7:24 pm

Appreciate the shout out, but I don't think anyone could have predicted what Sunny turned into.

When he first burst onto the scene, he looked like J Staal lite, but if memory serves correct he got bumped back down the AHL because we had regular NHLers coming back from their injuries and Sunny probably needed more time down there.

Then when he was re-inserted with the big club he didn't look as good and soon got injured (I think it was a concussion). He looked worse and worse and everyone had him penciled in as the 13/14th forward on a relatively deep team.

So this is a bit revisionist to me. It's like dating the dumping the pimple faced freshman girl and getting upset that she turns into a hot piece of ass as a senior. No one really saw the potential and no one possibly could.

You also have to note that Sunny stunk it up last year for the Blues (thanks Mike Yeo) and turned it around this season. Different conferences, different coaches, different systems all have impacts on how players turn out.

Note I'm not absolving JR for dismantling this roster of fast guys in an effort for "MOAR PUSHBACK" or whatever nonsense is being thrown around at Penguins headquarters

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Obviously
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Post by Obviously » Wed May 29, 2019 1:53 am

retard steel


:lol: :lol: :lol:
#NoMoTomlin
#BecauseTomlin
#FireTomlin
#Obviously

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Post by Donnie Brasco » Wed May 29, 2019 1:05 pm

Rossi with a pretty damn intelligent interview with Madden about Kessel and Malkin: Listen to the Mark Madden, Super Genius Episode - MADDEN - MAY 28 2019 - HOUR 1 on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio. Surprisingly worth the listen (starts at around the 18 minute mark). A few of the takeaways, although there certainly are a few more, as Rossi described it:

1. Suspects that Phil has constructed his 8 team list in a way that he's not going to be traded to one of those teams, effectively giving him veto power over any deal.

2. If JR had takers from Phil's 8 team list, then JR wouldn't have gone to Minnesota.

3. Identifies Arizona as a place Phil would go (doesn't qualify whether or not it's on the list but from the tone NO).

4. Phil doesn't want to move and thinks he may be able to outlast the coach.

5. There's a total disconnect between how Phil and Sully see Phil's role.

6. The organization sees Kessel as a bad influence on Malkin (as distinct from the question about whether Kessel or Neal before should have that type of impact on him). Says they think Malkin being caught in the middle of the Sully and Phil drama had a negative impact (again as distinct from the question as to whether it should have had that type of impact).

7. JR doesn't know how to communicate with Malkin. Cites this round about get his attention crap as an example. Talks about how sidestepping issues reinforce problems. Specifically said that Geno prefers and responds best when people are direct with him, which is why he respects Sully (even when he disagrees with him) and respected Therrien and why he didn't respect someone like Bylsma later on. NOTE: While not directly stated, the implication here is that he probably doesn't respect JR's lack of directness.

8. After JR's end of season diarrhea of the mouth where Geno is concerned, Sid apparently made it very clear to all concerned that he would be extremely unhappy if they kept talking about trading Geno.

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Post by Pabst » Wed May 29, 2019 5:26 pm

Donnie Brasco wrote:Appreciate the shout out, but I don't think anyone could have predicted what Sunny turned into.

A bottom 6 grinder who's career year totaled 31 points?

Coaching change, red-hot goaltending, garbage western conference, and a laundry list of new players (FA signings/call-ups) finally starting to gel is the reason STL is in the cup final. All the best to Sundqvist, but he's a JAG.

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Post by SteelPro » Wed May 29, 2019 9:30 pm

Donnie Brasco wrote:Rossi with a pretty damn intelligent interview with Madden about Kessel and Malkin: Listen to the Mark Madden, Super Genius Episode - MADDEN - MAY 28 2019 - HOUR 1 on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio. Surprisingly worth the listen (starts at around the 18 minute mark). A few of the takeaways, although there certainly are a few more, as Rossi described it:

1. Suspects that Phil has constructed his 8 team list in a way that he's not going to be traded to one of those teams, effectively giving him veto power over any deal.

2. If JR had takers from Phil's 8 team list, then JR wouldn't have gone to Minnesota.

3. Identifies Arizona as a place Phil would go (doesn't qualify whether or not it's on the list but from the tone NO).

4. Phil doesn't want to move and thinks he may be able to outlast the coach.

5. There's a total disconnect between how Phil and Sully see Phil's role.

6. The organization sees Kessel as a bad influence on Malkin (as distinct from the question about whether Kessel or Neal before should have that type of impact on him). Says they think Malkin being caught in the middle of the Sully and Phil drama had a negative impact (again as distinct from the question as to whether it should have had that type of impact).

7. JR doesn't know how to communicate with Malkin. Cites this round about get his attention crap as an example. Talks about how sidestepping issues reinforce problems. Specifically said that Geno prefers and responds best when people are direct with him, which is why he respects Sully (even when he disagrees with him) and respected Therrien and why he didn't respect someone like Bylsma later on. NOTE: While not directly stated, the implication here is that he probably doesn't respect JR's lack of directness.

8. After JR's end of season diarrhea of the mouth where Geno is concerned, Sid apparently made it very clear to all concerned that he would be extremelye unhappy if they kept talking about trading Geno.

Malkin is going to be 33 years old. We are long past the point where the organization should give a damn about the influence another player has on him. Penguins are morphing into the Steelers level of dysfunction if that is the issue they have with Kessel.
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Post by fractalsteel » Wed May 29, 2019 11:14 pm

SteelPro wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:Rossi with a pretty damn intelligent interview with Madden about Kessel and Malkin: Listen to the Mark Madden, Super Genius Episode - MADDEN - MAY 28 2019 - HOUR 1 on iHeartRadio | iHeartRadio. Surprisingly worth the listen (starts at around the 18 minute mark). A few of the takeaways, although there certainly are a few more, as Rossi described it:

1. Suspects that Phil has constructed his 8 team list in a way that he's not going to be traded to one of those teams, effectively giving him veto power over any deal.

2. If JR had takers from Phil's 8 team list, then JR wouldn't have gone to Minnesota.

3. Identifies Arizona as a place Phil would go (doesn't qualify whether or not it's on the list but from the tone NO).

4. Phil doesn't want to move and thinks he may be able to outlast the coach.

5. There's a total disconnect between how Phil and Sully see Phil's role.

6. The organization sees Kessel as a bad influence on Malkin (as distinct from the question about whether Kessel or Neal before should have that type of impact on him). Says they think Malkin being caught in the middle of the Sully and Phil drama had a negative impact (again as distinct from the question as to whether it should have had that type of impact).

7. JR doesn't know how to communicate with Malkin. Cites this round about get his attention crap as an example. Talks about how sidestepping issues reinforce problems. Specifically said that Geno prefers and responds best when people are direct with him, which is why he respects Sully (even when he disagrees with him) and respected Therrien and why he didn't respect someone like Bylsma later on. NOTE: While not directly stated, the implication here is that he probably doesn't respect JR's lack of directness.

8. After JR's end of season diarrhea of the mouth where Geno is concerned, Sid apparently made it very clear to all concerned that he would be extremelye unhappy if they kept talking about trading Geno.

Malkin is going to be 33 years old. We are long past the point where the organization should give a damn about the influence another player has on him. Penguins are morphing into the Steelers level of dysfunction if that is the issue they have with Kessel.


I listened to the interview and they mentioned Kessel's influence on the 'younger' players and not in a positive way. I think the point they were making was that Malkin was caught in the flux that is growing b/n Sullivan and Kessel. They mentioned several times that you have to be direct with Malkin and JR doesn't take that path.

If all this is true then the Pens are really trying to trade Kessel and he is making it as difficult as he can.

Kessel is pissed at Sully because he is playing him like a bottom-six forward according to Rossi and MM.
Who really knows?

The Pens have a long Summer ahead.

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