OK...I’ll give it one more go...Pens v. Sabers 11/19/2018

[Orangesteel]

I’ll give it one more go then it’s Lipps turn.

The reason I’ve been anxiously awaiting this one for a few days now is because of the symbolism if the Pens can’t get it done tonight. Sabers at home; when the schedule came out one might have thought a W for sure.

Now, the Pens currently occupy the place that the Sabers usually are in, and conversely the Sabers are playing great hockey with youth and some good vets and speed all up and down their roster.

I’m sick of losing. LGP.

[fractalsteel]

The 'fire Sullivan' talk is blowing up on MBs.

If the Pens get off to another bad start I wonder if the crowd will turn on them?




Penguins projected lineup
Tanner Pearson -- Evgeni Malkin -- Phil Kessel

Jake Guentzel -- Derick Brassard -- Patric Hornqvist

Zach Aston-Reese -- Riley Sheahan -- Bryan Rust

Dominik Simon -- Derek Grant -- Daniel Sprong

Jack Johnson -- Kris Letang

Brian Dumoulin -- Chad Ruhwedel

Olli Maatta -- Jamie Oleksiak

Casey DeSmith

Matt Murray

Scratched: Juuso Riikola

Injured: Sidney Crosby (upper body), Justin Schultz (left leg fracture), Matt Cullen (lower body)

[Orangesteel]

I personally think anyone supporting dismissing Sully is out of their godddamn mind.

[Donnie Brasco]

I personally think anyone supporting dismissing Sully is out of their godddamn mind.

Well the line combos and sending Sprong to the doghouse, along with some major regressions across the roster should have some people concerned.

I mean this is some Mike Johnston levels of play occurring right now. And I don't even think I've seen Geno look this disinterested for quite some time

Sullivan still hasn't come up with a counter for the speed that has taken over the league. Sullivan had to have his pet Sheary traded away so he could stop playing him next to Sid. Now Sully's new toy is Rust, who has produced the same amount of points as Sprong despite given about quadruple the opportunities in top 6 roles.

Then Sully refuses to go with the hot netminder in DeSmith (who is clearly playing better than Murray) and squandering points/opportunities. I'm not saying DeSmith is better than MM, but Murray has NOT earned his net back.

In short, Sully is making some very dumb personnel decisions that have not optimized his chances of winning/success. So you can color me as "concerned, but not quite ready to pull the plug"

[Orangesteel]

I agree with all of that Donnie. I’m just not in the fire Sullivan camp. I think we gambled on some players and they are 100 percent not working out. I think MM is going through some physiological issues (and if that’s the case I hope he gets some therapy because that shit is more serious than hockey). This is a confluence of issues right now, but I don’t think Sullivan is our main problem.

[Louis Lipps Service]

Love to see them just come out and curb stomp the Sabres 7-0.

[Legacy User]

If you don’t have job security when you’ve won 2 of the last 3 Cups then something is wrong.

[fractalsteel]

I brought up the chatter about Sully and his job because the boards are full of people who think that if you change the HC the Pens will suddenly return to elite status.
I've been critical of Sully since last year. I haven't really seen him grow as a coach. I tire of his 'favorites' and how his reluctance towards change holds this team back.
Now, if these fuckers are shucking it to get him fired then maybe it is time to blow the whole thing up.

[Orangesteel]

Funny example of our ineptitude right now. Great PK (after another mindlessly stupid penalty by Maata) and we get a breakaway and an uncontested rebound on the breakaway and it’s still 0-0.

[Orangesteel]

Guentzel come on dude!

[Orangesteel]

Brassard! That’s why we brought him here!

[Louis Lipps Service]

The appointment of Craig Patrick as a scout seems really weird.

As far as I can find, he hasn't done anything hockey related since 2006 and is 72 years old.

GMJR need a buddy to yell at clouds with or what?

[Orangesteel]

Nice set up by Pearson.

[fractalsteel]

The appointment of Craig Patrick as a scout seems really weird.

As far as I can find, he hasn't done anything hockey related since 2006 and is 72 years old.

GMJR need a buddy to yell at clouds with or what?

Pro scout right? If that means he is looking at other teams and what they are doing another set of experienced eyes couldn't hurt.

And finally Guentzel with a score!!

3-1

[Orangesteel]

Nice Guentzy way to follow your shot.

[Louis Lipps Service]

The appointment of Craig Patrick as a scout seems really weird.

As far as I can find, he hasn't done anything hockey related since 2006 and is 72 years old.

GMJR need a buddy to yell at clouds with or what?

Pro scout right? If that means he is looking at other teams and what they are doing another set of experienced eyes couldn't hurt.

And finally Guentzel with a score!!

3-1

It’s just weird that he’s been out of the game for 12 years and suddenly gets hired now, at 72 years old.

I certainly don’t think anything negative can possibly come from it, just more curious than anything.

[Orangesteel]

Now Pearson joins the party.

Birdies came to play this is good.

[fractalsteel]

Maata just blows.

The Pens got away from the forecheck the last ten minutes and it cost them. They went into a shell and our slow D men were exposed.
DeSmith gave up way too many rebounds and if the Sabres were crashing the net they might have more behind #30.

The Pens need another goal if they want to win this one.

[Orangesteel]

Wow is this team a fucking joke. Unreal they lost that game.

[Louis Lipps Service]

We’ve hit a new low.

[fractalsteel]

4-1 becomes 4-5

Where is the blame?

This team understands how to lose-they have become masters of such.

P.S. I fucking hate Jake Eichel

[fractalsteel]

Oh yeah, this is the first point the Pens have garnered since 11-10-8. That is how bad they have been.

[Orangesteel]

And really, if this is DeSmith coming back down to earth, we have such a shit show at goaltender I don’t even know where to start. I’m just bewildered that we have gotten this bad this fast.

[Donnie Brasco]

I brought up the chatter about Sully and his job because the boards are full of people who think that if you change the HC the Pens will suddenly return to elite status.
I've been critical of Sully since last year. I haven't really seen him grow as a coach. I tire of his 'favorites' and how his reluctance towards change holds this team back.
Now, if these fuckers are shucking it to get him fired then maybe it is time to blow the whole thing up.

The coach and roster are the same. So, the first thing you have to ask yourself is this:

1) If it's a coach vs issue situation, who is more easily-replaced, 20 players, or 3 coaches? Even if you are willing to save a handful of players, even as many as 10, you're still talking about attempting to unload the dregs of your roster in a league that has become MASSIVELY CONSERVATIVE when it comes to making trades. Now you're asking the rest of the league, who ALL still believe they're still in the playoff race because it's only November, to take your bad players and their bad contracts while giving you something of value (even if that something of value is simply "not cap back"). Meanwhile, a legitimate star coach is sitting unemployed.

2) What is more likely: a team, whose roster has been dominant for stretches THIS SEASON and whose core has won multiple cups suddenly becomes bereft of all speed, skill, intelligence halfway through the season, OR that the team has found its way into a funk (like most teams do) and the organization has tried everything from yelling and screaming to trading a top-6 roster player to get them out of it, to no avail, and at some point you need to wonder: has the coach lost the ability to reach these guys?


You can say roster! roster! roster! all you want, but I don't understand how you can say it and not even once go coach? coach? coach?

[Orangesteel]

All good points Donnie.

Yeo and McLellen have been fired. Sullivan is lucky he has won two cups because the Pens have been worse than both of those teams. I don’t think there is a team in the league that has been playing worse than the Pens.

[fractalsteel]

I brought up the chatter about Sully and his job because the boards are full of people who think that if you change the HC the Pens will suddenly return to elite status.
I've been critical of Sully since last year. I haven't really seen him grow as a coach. I tire of his 'favorites' and how his reluctance towards change holds this team back.
Now, if these fuckers are shucking it to get him fired then maybe it is time to blow the whole thing up.

The coach and roster are the same. So, the first thing you have to ask yourself is this:

1) If it's a coach vs issue situation, who is more easily-replaced, 20 players, or 3 coaches? Even if you are willing to save a handful of players, even as many as 10, you're still talking about attempting to unload the dregs of your roster in a league that has become MASSIVELY CONSERVATIVE when it comes to making trades. Now you're asking the rest of the league, who ALL still believe they're still in the playoff race because it's only November, to take your bad players and their bad contracts while giving you something of value (even if that something of value is simply "not cap back"). Meanwhile, a legitimate star coach is sitting unemployed.

2) What is more likely: a team, whose roster has been dominant for stretches THIS SEASON and whose core has won multiple cups suddenly becomes bereft of all speed, skill, intelligence halfway through the season, OR that the team has found its way into a funk (like most teams do) and the organization has tried everything from yelling and screaming to trading a top-6 roster player to get them out of it, to no avail, and at some point you need to wonder: has the coach lost the ability to reach these guys?


You can say roster! roster! roster! all you want, but I don't understand how you can say it and not even once go coach? coach? coach?

My last sentence was an overreaction. It is too early to blow up this roster. Tweaks-yes. It's not like I'm posting every thread to break the team up.


Fire Sullivan? Considering what he meant to this team and what they have done in his short tenure it would seem he is safe for the season.
With MJ it was evident he wasn't the answer after his first season. Mario saw it and made the change.
I guess the big question is what is Mario/JR going to do?

Last night was really hard. Building the lead and dominating only to have a fluke goal close it to one. After that, I suspect that each of us knew what was coming.
After they went up three the team went into coast mode. I'm asking you guys who is to blame for that?
Last week, the Pens played(sans Crosby) Tampa evenly 5 on 5 for the whole game. Penalties cost them the game but it gave hope.

When they got off to the slow start in 2016 it was frustrating but so far this year it is a new kind of frustration that is maddening.