The cost of college

[R_S]

There have been some great discussions here about the problems with the university systems and the ridiculous costs, bloated admin, etc. Here is a perfect example.

LSU building an 85 milliion dollar "leisure" facility which includes a lazy fucking river. I didn't realize this, but apparently this is becoming a new trend at universities. The Lazy river. What is the point of one if you can't float it with a drink in your hand anyway?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/13/ls ... latestnews

[Legacy User]

7 years old but you get the picture. Too bad that people cant home school a uni degree. Even community colleges are well over 100 dollars per credit with courses taught by student aids and assoc profs.

Its like being served a Mickey D's combo meal at the Ritz Carlton and at Ritz Carlton prices..

Other than labs why do four walls and a ceiling cost so much? Seems like they need to bulldoze every last one of those institutions of higher education and trailer in prefab school rooms at 20k a pop.

[Kodiak]

Thing is, healthcare costs are baked into the COL.

College tuitions are out-of-control. A big reason is all the govt subsidized loans - they keep raising tuitions and the govt keeps handing out more money. The other is the ridiculous administrative and activity costs to improve "student life" to attract more students. Basically passing on marketing costs.

But it may also be very, very deceptive. You see these tuitions at many private and elite universities and think "my god", only to learn that any middle class or poorer student only pays about 1/4 of that, before loans. This means it's really a massive wealth transfer from the other students. Not a big deal if you're rich. Once again, sucks if you aren't rich but make a decent amount of money - either fork over that $10-$15k more than your neighbor you've been making or find a cheaper school.

[Ice]

Pretty much spot on on both accounts, Kodiak. Between the need to build a new student center every two years to attract freshmen and the billions of dollars of monopoly in, real money debt after the government is giving away, it's just going to keep going in this direction, too.

Until the unpaid college debt ballon bursts all over the economy.

[Thrillsseeker]

Pretty much spot on on both accounts, Kodiak. Between the need to build a new student center every two years to attract freshmen and the billions of dollars of monopoly in, real money debt after the government is giving away, it's just going to keep going in this direction, too.

Until the unpaid college debt ballon bursts all over the economy.

This. It's going to happen.

[Legacy User]

We had a lazy river at Snyder Hall (East Halls) at Penn State in 1977. Couple of dudes clogged the community toilet down the hall that we all shared. Plumbing took four days to fix the brown soup that we waded through to the stairs. Since I was used to swimming in the Mon, I didn't notice it at first.

But in all seriousness, this one I blame on the parents. There are two major problems here. The first is if your kid is living in luxury at 19, the next 20 years after college are going to be a disappointment. The second is that you can't delight in these facilities during campus visits then bitch about the cost of education.

I don't roll that way. I want something better than what I had for my kid but not so nice that he or she doesn't want to get out of there and into something better with the money they earn themselves.

Millennials are absolutely being set up for depression but it's the boomer's fault.

[955876]

If I get started on this I'll literally never stop.
It's robbery plain & simple. In addition to a huge fucking wealth transfer as already mentioned.

My daughter went to pay for her classes last semester. She went with her good friend who is enrolled in the same exact fucking classes.

My daughter handed over her check. When it was her friends turn they pulled up her info and said "oh hold on a second, we owe you some money" at which point the proceeded to give her a small check.

Owed her fucking money.

And how about the government forgiving student loan debt if you go work for the gov for a few years???

It's bullshit at the highest of levels.

[Kodiak]

But in all seriousness, this one I blame on the parents. There are two major problems here. The first is if your kid is living in luxury at 19, the next 20 years after college are going to be a disappointment. The second is that you can't delight in these facilities during campus visits then bitch about the cost of education.

We had a new student rec center, and it was awesome. I was there working out or playing basketball almost every day. Thing is, I didn't take advantage of the other stuff the rec had, and I'm guessing the majority of students didn't, either....if they were ever there at all!

I miss having a place I can go to for pick-up game, and my gym is about on par with my highschool one - all miles apart from that student rec. And I don't care. LOL, you'll find that old gym isn't only half the price of nicer places, but a lot less crowded!

Lazy river? Go fuck yourselves. Half the students will get drunk and do that a few times...then realize house parties and bars are way more fun and never go back. It's just a giant waste of money, as are a lot of student "activities" that drive out-of-control administrative costs.

[955876]

My town has an approx. population of 300,000 residents.

The Dean of the local JUCO is paid close to $400,000 annually.

I seriously fail to see how a Dean can provide value above and beyond to be compensated so highly.

What the fuck does a dean at a JUCO even do?

$400k??

$150k, full benefits, and a nice pension is MORE than enough for this type of public sector job.

[R_S]

400k is a relative bargain for that position! Sad but true.

[Ice]

Agreed, 95.

[Legacy User]

That same dean of a JUCO making 400K will bitch and whine about private sector greed and CEO pay with his fellow admins over a 400 dollar bottle of Ch. Margaux at the best restaurant in town.

By the way, I do think CEOs are overpaid. So are college administrators. Both can be true.

[swissvale72]

All I have to say is....my son graduated yesterday. Two kids through college....no more fuckin' tuition payments!!!

[Kodiak]

Saw a report tonight that a CommCo was offering yoga and meditation...Suck it up! Perfect example of wasting money leading to higher tuition.

[R_S]

All I have to say is....my son graduated yesterday. Two kids through college....no more fuckin' tuition payments!!!

If you were able to get your kids through school student loan free, that's impressive, barring lots of scholarships. Being able to do that is going more by the way of the dodo bird for the average middle class family. When your kids see their friends dropping $600-$700 a month in student loan payments, they should be worshiping the ground your dago ass walks on.

[swissvale72]

All I have to say is....my son graduated yesterday. Two kids through college....no more fuckin' tuition payments!!!

If you were able to get your kids through school student loan free, that's impressive, barring lots of scholarships. Being able to do that is going more by the way of the dodo bird for the average middle class family. When your kids see their friends dropping $600-$700 a month in student loan payments, they should be worshiping the ground your dago ass walks on.

Oh...I didn't say anything about loan-free, RS. She's got her loans, he's got his, and we've got ours. Thank God for home equity loans. Whenever my son would be begging for more money, I'd just repeat the number I shelled out to Boston University every month. Their loans are in the $350/month range...manageable.

[R_S]

Makes more sense. I was about to start calling you a 1% er

[swissvale72]

Makes more sense. I was about to start calling you a 1% er

Hahaha!!! Hardly.

Nope...they both took all the loans (Stafford & such) offered in their schools' financial aid package and they both got some scholarship help (him more than her). Gotta say, BU somehow figured out how to charge a fuckin' ton of money to attend, but also how to offer half a ton in scholarships. When my son said he wanted to go there, never thought it was possible. I told he would need to get accepted and then they would need to give him about $30K. And that's about exactly what happened.....for his first year. Then his sister graduated, and we knew this would happen, his scholarship help dropped by about 30%.

At any rate, no more fuckin' gargantuan tuition payments. Now it's long-needed house repairs.

[Legacy User]

I was reading about a recruiter that will get your kid a nice paying job if the just show an acceptance letter to a good college. Since colleges seem to be mostly used by business as a screening tool (Google Griggs v. Duke Power), this option seems to make the most sense for everyone involved.

Let's do the math on that: four years making 40K instead of spending that sum=320K-taxes, probably about 250K ahead of the game by age 22. Of course any money saved and invested at that age will have an amazing compounded return. Let's say the kid saves 5K a year=20K invested at 5% annual return. And not hampered by debt which allows you to keep investing. I can't imagine any four year degree even in a STEM that would be as advantageous. And there's no reason you can't learn STEM skills by working.

But of course, we're just going to keep doing things stupidly because we'll pretend going to college in 2015 is the no brainer it was in 1975. And wealthy parents will convince themselves that college didn't set their kids back in debt because they just ate the 160K, effectively the self-delusion of Enron accounting applied to personal finance.

Meanwhile, in Peter Thiel's world:

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-ho ... ing-2015-5

[R_S]

Makes more sense. I was about to start calling you a 1% er

Hahaha!!! Hardly.

Nope...they both took all the loans (Stafford & such) offered in their schools' financial aid package and they both got some scholarship help (him more than her). Gotta say, BU somehow figured out how to charge a fuckin' ton of money to attend, but also how to offer half a ton in scholarships. When my son said he wanted to go there, never thought it was possible. I told he would need to get accepted and then they would need to give him about $30K. And that's about exactly what happened.....for his first year. Then his sister graduated, and we knew this would happen, his scholarship help dropped by about 30%.

At any rate, no more fuckin' gargantuan tuition payments. Now it's long-needed house repairs.

This may be a dumb question, but why did his help drop 30% upon her graduation?

[swissvale72]

Makes more sense. I was about to start calling you a 1% er

Hahaha!!! Hardly.

Nope...they both took all the loans (Stafford & such) offered in their schools' financial aid package and they both got some scholarship help (him more than her). Gotta say, BU somehow figured out how to charge a fuckin' ton of money to attend, but also how to offer half a ton in scholarships. When my son said he wanted to go there, never thought it was possible. I told he would need to get accepted and then they would need to give him about $30K. And that's about exactly what happened.....for his first year. Then his sister graduated, and we knew this would happen, his scholarship help dropped by about 30%.

At any rate, no more fuckin' gargantuan tuition payments. Now it's long-needed house repairs.

This may be a dumb question, but why did his help drop 30% upon her graduation?

Not a dumb question....was need-based, and with two kids in school at the same time, both qualify for more dough as the Estimated Family Contribution to each one is less. I was dreading the overlap year where both were in college at the same time. In retrospect, wish we had had another year with both.

[Kodiak]

I was reading about a recruiter that will get your kid a nice paying job if the just show an acceptance letter to a good college. Since colleges seem to be mostly used by business as a screening tool (Google Griggs v. Duke Power), this option seems to make the most sense for everyone involved.

That's interesting. In some ways it makes a lot of sense, and pretty much all non-technical jobs can teach you what you need to know. Still, I'd prefer a year of basic business classes to have a foundation, and transition from the high school immaturity.

But in business, if you aren't the savvy entrepreneur or brilliant rainmaker, you're going to want an MBA to advance and make more money. Not going to happen without the college degree.

[Legacy User]

[Legacy User]

I was reading about a recruiter that will get your kid a nice paying job if the just show an acceptance letter to a good college. Since colleges seem to be mostly used by business as a screening tool (Google Griggs v. Duke Power), this option seems to make the most sense for everyone involved.

That's interesting. In some ways it makes a lot of sense, and pretty much all non-technical jobs can teach you what you need to know. Still, I'd prefer a year of basic business classes to have a foundation, and transition from the high school immaturity.

But in business, if you aren't the savvy entrepreneur or brilliant rainmaker, you're going to want an MBA to advance and make more money. Not going to happen without the college degree.

My impression from the outside looking in is that the MBA is the new BA for business. It's so ubiquitous that it has become yet a another perfunctory necessity for advancement unless from a top tier program. Great for money sucking universities though.

Lazy river. Jesus Christ.

[Legacy User]

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/n ... e-26174791

In Lubbock, for Christ's sake. After you graduate, where in the hell do you go in that town to buy comparable luxury on your own?

She's got her own walk in closet...she will be a train wreck by 30 given how much life will disappoint her...or she'll never leave campus

I think there are a lot of lazy but guilty parents out there (perhaps after a divorce) who throw money at their adult children without thinking it through...

[Kodiak]

My impression from the outside looking in is that the MBA is the new BA for business. It's so ubiquitous that it has become yet a another perfunctory necessity for advancement unless from a top tier program. Great for money sucking universities though.

I'd say that's all pretty accurate. Realistically, if you have a BA in business any MBA program below top 20-30 is a waste of your money, except that a good number of F500's still want their finance and accounting people to have an MBA to advance. I think those people are probably better served going to an Exec. MBA program after 10-15 years experience, but the Exec MBA programs haven't really caught on. But if you just need to check the box to move up at your current company then all that matters is the piece of paper.

I think MBA programs do better on some technical skills, much more so for people with non-business undergrads...but they aren't very strong on people/resource management. When you look at the top programs people typically have 5-7 years experience, so the technical skills are actually far more relevant than the executive management skills.

Completely different story for someone looking to move out of a technical field into business management. But for those career changers I'd also say it likely ain't happening unless you go to a top-20 program.

[Legacy User]

The tuition increases for state/city schools is driving up the average cost of admission per pupil far more than private universities, especially since the financial meltdown 7 years ago.

State budgets, unless you live in a low population, energy rich shit hole like North Dakota, are short on revenue all over the union. Affordable in-state tuition suffering as a result.

Nevertheless, some of these exorbitant, garish campus projects are the result of the administration kowtowing to the rich donor seeding the project. You get nothing from them if you argue their tastes.

[Kodiak]

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/nightline-luxury-university-colleges-offer-water-parks-upscale-26174791

In Lubbock, for Christ's sake. After you graduate, where in the hell do you go in that town to buy comparable luxury on your own?

LOL, there's 15, MAYBE 20 kids around that pool. What a waste.

I think it's also telling the private companies are able to lease land and provide all that luxury at a comparable, even cheaper, cost than on-campus housing.

It is kind of funny, though. You're right about the rude awakening post-college. Get a job for $40k in Chicago and try affording a decent one-bedroom on top of your student loans. That's without a car and insurance, which would chew up most of your rent savings in a more affordable city.

[Legacy User]

Comparing these campuses to country clubs is inaccurate. They are like tropical resorts. Country clubs don't have lazy rivers, Atlantis does.

Not surprised it is quickly taken for granted. Such is the human condition.

If you want to guarantee Avenue Q type depression in your kid, treat him or her like this at 20....it's all downhill after that.

[955876]

The tuition increases for state/city schools is driving up the average cost of admission per pupil far more than private universities, especially since the financial meltdown 7 years ago.

Are you familiar with the (main) reasons why tuition in these schools has increased so dramatically in the last say 3-5 years?