For EVERYONE slamming Mason Rudolph!

[stillcajun]

I've watched MR since his first start this season. I thought that he was turning the corner in the Balt. game until the concussion that laid him out on the field but since then he's been everything but the model of consistency.

He overthrows the WR, TE and RBs. He's woefully inaccurate to the point that every drop by a receiver is magnified mainly because you don't know when the next good pass will be. As bad as the OL has been, a ton of its issues has been due to the indecision by MR in the passing game. His poor pocket presence, indecision and lack of awareness has him sliding into the pressure most of the time as he methodically "goes through his reads".

For a smart guy who watches film, he consistently seems to be baffled with the defensive alignments and where to go with the ball. This clip is the culmination of Mason Rudolph so far this year.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/11/film- ... down-play/

Yeah we lost JuJu, Johnson and Connor but 2 of those guys were had most of the game but what about last game, the game before that or most of the games so far this season?

Over the last two games (Rams and Browns), this O has netted 8pts and these are not two defensive juggernauts by any means.

MR needs to be the straw that stirs this drink but right now he's the straw that sits outside the glass.

Tomlin and Fichtner has done him no favors with the playcalling but Rudolph playing scared has done nothing for his game.

[Kodiak]

To me the most comical thing that sums up Rudolph is that he can't move left - when he gets pressured from the right, he does a 270 degree spin! You know, 3 rights = 1 left

LOL, I shit you not he did that 2-3 times last night.

[Texas Black & Gold]

For those that are frustrated with MR, would it be too disruptive if MR shared the QB duties with the Duck? Let MR start but if no progress then let the Duck play the 2nd half. Or vise versa.
And who would make that kind of decision Tomlin or higher ups?

[stillcajun]

For those that are frustrated with MR, would it be too disruptive if MR shared the QB duties with the Duck? Let MR start but if no progress then let the Duck play the 2nd half. Or vise versa.
And who would make that kind of decision Tomlin or higher ups?

I would've put Duck in after the 1st series of the 3rd qtr. Rudolph just didn't have it last night and a change might've brought a spark to the O.

Tomlin would be the one to make that decision but even he said during his pressure when asked about Duck coming in for Rudolph that the thought never crossed his mind.

[Texas Black & Gold]

For those that are frustrated with MR, would it be too disruptive if MR shared the QB duties with the Duck? Let MR start but if no progress then let the Duck play the 2nd half. Or vise versa.
And who would make that kind of decision Tomlin or higher ups?

I would've put Duck in after the 1st series of the 3rd qtr. Rudolph just didn't have it last night and a change might've brought a spark to the O.

Tomlin would be the one to make that decision but even he said during his pressure when asked about Duck coming in for Rudolph that the thought never crossed his mind.

Well then that is troubling if the HC is allowed to make a change but the thought never crossed his mind.
I would think that he would at least talk with MR and ask him if he was okay or if he needed a change.

[Jobu]

For those that are frustrated with MR, would it be too disruptive if MR shared the QB duties with the Duck? Let MR start but if no progress then let the Duck play the 2nd half. Or vise versa.
And who would make that kind of decision Tomlin or higher ups?

I would've put Duck in after the 1st series of the 3rd qtr. Rudolph just didn't have it last night and a change might've brought a spark to the O.

Tomlin would be the one to make that decision but even he said during his pressure when asked about Duck coming in for Rudolph that the thought never crossed his mind.

Well then that is troubling if the HC is allowed to make a change but the thought never crossed his mind.
I would think that he would at least talk with MR and ask him if he was okay or if he needed a change.

Seriously?

[Suwanee88]

Who did he have on the field? PRACTICE SQUAD PLAYERS!


Trey Edmunds practice squad

holton practice squad

14 whats his name tevin jones? practice squad

antonio brown gone
juju out
diontae out
switzer out

leveon gone
conner out
Nix out

We had LITERALLY NO PLAYMAKERS LEFT FOR RUDOLPH EXCEPT PRACTICE SQUADERS.

christ sake our best players were players that have done nothing in the nfl

Next up youll expect Rudolph to build Tom Brady's next mansion by himself with lincoln logs for christ sake!

No one's blaming MR completely for the loss.

However that doesnt change the fact that...

...he isn't pushing/can't push the ball down the field
...he takes forever on his reads (which doesn't help his stressed out OL)
...he has little pocket awareness
...he doesn't have the accuracy or the anticipation to make up for his not so good arm.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt early...but none of these things are getting any better.

This is independent of the dreck he had on the field supporting him last night.

He doesn't have it guys.

And it doesn't look like he'll get it.

You may be right but I can tell you one thing he does have......employment from a dinosaur which means long term pain for us.

[K_C_]

I gave him the benefit of the doubt early...but none of these things are getting any better.

Rudolph absolutely sucked vs the Browns, but it "got better", significantly, just one week earlier vs the Rams.

Rudolph not only made several excellent throws in that game, his receivers also dropped several other excellent throws.

So yeah, it had actually been getting better until Rudolph's start against Cleveland.

[Minkah'n Big Plays]

I gave him the benefit of the doubt early...but none of these things are getting any better.

Rudolph absolutely sucked vs the Browns, but it "got better", significantly, just one week earlier vs the Rams.

Rudolph not only made several excellent throws in that game, his receivers also dropped several other excellent throws.

So yeah, it had actually been getting better until Rudolph's start against Cleveland.

Can't always play in the friendly confines of Heinz field and force multiple turnovers on D.

Got to go on the road and play just as well. Not one time did MR try to slide his feet side to side and/or step up in the pocket to get a different view of the field. He held the ball, again, with his slow delivery, getting hit as he threw it multiple times.

Everything screamed out backup QB as his ceiling Thursday night.

BTW, anyone catch AV roller skating backwards a bunch of times? He was fucking brutal.

[K_C_]

I gave him the benefit of the doubt early...but none of these things are getting any better.

Rudolph absolutely sucked vs the Browns, but it "got better", significantly, just one week earlier vs the Rams.

Rudolph not only made several excellent throws in that game, his receivers also dropped several other excellent throws.

So yeah, it had actually been getting better until Rudolph's start against Cleveland.

Can't always play in the friendly confines of Heinz field and force multiple turnovers on D.

Got to go on the road and play just as well. Not one time did MR try to slide his feet side to side and/or step up in the pocket to get a different view of the field. He held the ball, again, with his slow delivery, getting hit as he threw it multiple times.

Everything screamed out backup QB as his ceiling Thursday night.

BTW, anyone catch AV roller skating backwards a bunch of times? He was fucking brutal.

Rudolph was terrible Thursday night. Nobody with a working brain would argue otherwise. My point is, he was far from horrible the previous Sunday. He was very good for 90% of the game. His only real issue that day, which has been his issue all year, was the play clock time in his head.

No doubt he completely fell apart against the Browns but even more troubling, so did virtually all of Rudolph's offensive teammates. THAT concerns me much more than how much Rudolph sucked.

[alancac98]

Yeah, we should have kept Dobbs and traded Rudolph. We would be in a much better situation right now. To be fair, I like both Rudolph and Duck. There's just something about Duck that you want to see more of (also rooting for the total underdog is always fun). But Rudolph doesn't suck. He had a bad game as all of the offence did (I think he was pushing too hard and that never creates a good outcome). Our OL looked like they were on Icecapades for crying out loud.

None of the QBs we have on the roster have the benefit of a QB coach or the benefit of an OC that knows how to run a professional football offence. I'll bet you $1000 that if the Steelers fired Fichtner and got an actual OC who knows his shit, that you would see a totally different offence - within 2 weeks! Fichtner got his job because of Ben, period!!! I said it before that it just goes to show you that Ben had way too much power and say on the offence - but it was the coaches and FO that gave him his power. Coaches coach and run the show - players fucking play - that should have always been the philosophy. Now we are stuck with fucking Fichtner!

[Kodiak]

Rudolph doesn't suck, he's just the worst starting QB in the NFL. He has, to this point, never looked like a future starter. Hasn't even flashed the potential to be a future starter.

His ceiling might be Mike Tomczak. I was hoping Andy Dalton, but Tomczak was a good back-up, one who actually excelled out of the bullpen in relief (which is at least as important as being able to play well as a spot starter).

[Steelafan77]

I will only critique him for his stupid INT's. Both were avoidable and when you really break them down rookie mistakes in the heat of battle. It happens. I always remember this is a TEAM sport and everyone's contribution is required to become successful.

[jeemie]

I gave him the benefit of the doubt early...but none of these things are getting any better.

Rudolph absolutely sucked vs the Browns, but it "got better", significantly, just one week earlier vs the Rams.

Rudolph not only made several excellent throws in that game, his receivers also dropped several other excellent throws.

So yeah, it had actually been getting better until Rudolph's start against Cleveland.

Can't always play in the friendly confines of Heinz field and force multiple turnovers on D.

Got to go on the road and play just as well. Not one time did MR try to slide his feet side to side and/or step up in the pocket to get a different view of the field. He held the ball, again, with his slow delivery, getting hit as he threw it multiple times.

Everything screamed out backup QB as his ceiling Thursday night.

BTW, anyone catch AV roller skating backwards a bunch of times? He was fucking brutal.

Myles Garrett destroyed AV.

[Steelafan77]

You're as good or great as your su'poor'ting cast... Mason Obviously is not Ben. He can't elevate his less than players to play better and his decent players to greatness or his great players to all stars...

That said, Mason could be a lot worse. I understand the concern and the criticism what I don't get is how folks can just expect Mason to play as good as Ben has. That's not how this works. All you have to do is look at history. Ben is a very special talent. His back ups in the past have been average to decent. His Two Best backups..., Batch who had 10+ years in the NFL still struggled as his back up. Leftwich had 9-10 years in and was decent. Look at others in that role behind Ben. Most are forgettable. Y'all are a tough crowd.

[jebrick]

For those that are frustrated with MR, would it be too disruptive if MR shared the QB duties with the Duck? Let MR start but if no progress then let the Duck play the 2nd half. Or vise versa.
And who would make that kind of decision Tomlin or higher ups?

Because they are not in surrender mode yet.

[Scunge]

Well, let me first say I am glad we did not invest a first round pick on Mason Rudolph. Spending a 3rd rounder on him is perfectly fine, to take that gamble, and it is a gamble that they will have to do again and again.

It isn't so simple to just hope for a bad season and pick in the top 5 or 10 to get your franchise QB. Look at how the rest of the NFL will give up everything to move up for a Carson Wentz, a Mitch Tribisky, the Steelers will probably never be able to do that. Giving up a 2nd and a 3rd to move up for Bush is one thing but does anybody really think the Steelers will do what Philly did to go up an get Wentz at #2?

Philly traded their #8 pick, their 3rd and 4th round picks that year, AND a 1st and 2nd the next year to move up to the #2 spot. I can't see Rooney doing that.

So, people better get used to seeing the Steeles spend 3rd round, mid round picks on QB, maybe a 2nd rounder if a QB they like falls somehow.

Back to Mason, not exactly the best circumstances to show what you can do. I said this offseason that the O-line might start to decline, not just because of Munchak being gone, but because they are all getting older. I see Foster declining, I see Pouncey getting pushed back like he is on roller skates, I see him doing bad snaps, I fully expect a couple bad snaps per game now. Al is a great story, but I don't really believe that he is a Pro Bowl LT, I think he has always been a good tier below the Pro Bowl LTs.

The RB group, only Conner is a legitimate NFL RB and certainly the only one who can be trusted to pass protect. I watched Trey Edmunds and Jaylin Samuels whiff a lot in pass protection, or not know who to chip, how to chip, it is depressing.

Now yes, Rudolph is not absolved of any guilt, he is making his fair share of mistakes as all first year QBs do. I did some research on first year QBs, well known, HOFers, first rounders, etc. Nearly all of them had bad games, 3 INT games, Peyton Manning had three 3 INT games in his first 4 games played. I can't really say that any of them had to play with the supporting cast that Rudolph currently has. It is getting worse and worse, counting on practice squad players? By comparison, Manning in his first year at QB had Marshall Faulk at RB, had Pro Bowl TEs in Ken Dilger and Marcus Pollard and a HOF WR in Marvin Harrison and he still threw 28 INTs, completed 56% of his passes had a passer rating of 71 for the year.

We can play what ifs all day long, but what if Rudolph had a healthy team around him right now? Or had Antonio Brown? It is hard to judge Mason right now because of the supporting cast and I can't help but feel that if Ben were in this situation that even he would struggle. How would Ben do it with no JuJu, or Conner, having to rely on Tevin Jones? Johnny Holton? Trey Edmunds? I don't think it would be pretty at all for Ben.

The one big issue with Rudolph that I can see is that he needs to build up his body. He has no anchor, no sand in his pants, etc. It isn't just your arm but your lower body that can make a difference. He is listed as 6'5" 235 but I think that is bullshit, he looks so damn thin, like he may go 215. He needs to spend more time in the weight room, he needs to actually be bulkier, to have that armor to withstand the rigors of the NFL.

My final point, damn, sure would be nice if Rudolph and Hodges had a damn QB coach?? The QB position is your most critical position and as such demands to have a coach who only worries about developing the QB.

A young Brett Farve had Steve Mariucci as his QB coach for his first 4 years. Peyton Manning had Bruce Arians as his QB coach the first 3 years. Joe Montana had Sam Wyche as his QB coach for his first 4 years. Steve Young has Mike Holmgren as his QB coach.

What do all of those QB coaches have in common? Well, they were all damn good and they all became offensive coordinators and eventually head coaches. They also went to plenty of Super Bowls too.

And yet here we sit in 2019 and the Pittsburgh Steelers think it is a good idea to have Mason Rudolph have no QB coach. They have gone back to the future and are doing a Kordell Stewart type of approach of letting their young QBs stumble around in the dark without the benefit of a proper QB position coach.

Also, a legitimate QB position coach would give Randy Fitchner help with the offense. Todays' QB coach is tomorrow's offensive coordinator and eventually NFL head coach. Funny that the Steelers would handicap themselves and prevent the team from benefiting from having such a coach on the team.

[ToddHaleysNineIron]

To me, this is like a hockey player dropping the gloves for a fight... and the other guy just clubs him over the head with his stick.

The fight... that's part of hockey, it's barbaric, illegal in the streets, whatever... but it's part of the game.

A scuffle in football is normal, we've seen it plenty of times before. We've even seen guys rip helmets off... this stuff happens, for a player involved, I don't think they expect anything different from each other in these scrums.


Then a helmet was used to bash another player in the head.

This is far outside what anyone would expect from a scuffle.

[Kodiak]

... what I don't get is how folks can just expect Mason to play as good as Ben has.

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anyone comparing him to Ben or expecting him to be that good. It's a strawman intended to deflect and excuse the fact that he's sucked.

What most people hoped for was better than what he's been, which by every objective measure is the worst starting QB in the league.

[Ice]

It's nice to see so many of my brethren moving forward through the stages of grief. Only a step or two left for most of us, then on to Cincy.

[K_C_]

... what I don't get is how folks can just expect Mason to play as good as Ben has.

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anyone comparing him to Ben or expecting him to be that good. It's a strawman intended to deflect and excuse the fact that he's sucked.

What most people hoped for was better than what he's been, which by every objective measure is the worst starting QB in the league.

I like Duck, but I almost hope the kid gets a real shot (not what they let him do vs San Diego) in an upcoming game.

No Conner, no JuJu or Diontae. A seriously regressed offensive line.

I like Duck but I could also see him dying behind this o-line and with the weapons he'll likely have.

We'll see.

You have put everything wrong with the Steelers offense on Rudolph, which is completely laughable.

Sure, the kid absolutely sucked on the road against the Browns. A team filled with talent and plenty of that talent is on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm sure Duck'll save us though.

[Orangesteel]

... what I don't get is how folks can just expect Mason to play as good as Ben has.

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anyone comparing him to Ben or expecting him to be that good. It's a strawman intended to deflect and excuse the fact that he's sucked.

What most people hoped for was better than what he's been, which by every objective measure is the worst starting QB in the league.

Exactly this. Who has asked Mason to play HoF football? Nobody has. But there is a chasm between Ben-esqe football and where Mason is currently at, which adjusted with all of those metrics is something like 35th in the league.

With this defense, Mason could play mediocre football and we could easily be 7-3 right now. The Browns game was winnable and the one that still really pisses me off is the 49ers game, where we had a turnover differential of +3 and still lost.

That game wasn’t entirely on Mason, actually the goats of that game were Conner and Fitchner, but the point remains. You can’t look at Mason’s stats straight up and determine he is playing “good enough” football. Those stats are deceiving.

I think it’s called the DVOA or something (B2B quotes it all the time) and that shows Mason is at the bottom in all of the meaningful areas.

[Donnie Brasco]

... what I don't get is how folks can just expect Mason to play as good as Ben has.

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anyone comparing him to Ben or expecting him to be that good. It's a strawman intended to deflect and excuse the fact that he's sucked.

What most people hoped for was better than what he's been, which by every objective measure is the worst starting QB in the league.

I like Duck, but I almost hope the kid gets a real shot (not what they let him do vs San Diego) in an upcoming game.

No Conner, no JuJu or Diontae. A seriously regressed offensive line.

I like Duck but I could also see him dying behind this o-line and with the weapons he'll likely have.

We'll see.

You have put everything wrong with the Steelers offense on Rudolph, which is completely laughable.

Sure, the kid absolutely sucked on the road against the Browns. A team filled with talent and plenty of that talent is on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm sure Duck'll save us though.

I'm not sure Duck is any better, talent wise than Rudolph

But with the Oline getting bitched about at least Duck has the legs to extend plays and save himself from getting killed.

I just don't want Rudolph to get the David Carr treatment

[Donnie Brasco]

I've watched MR since his first start this season. I thought that he was turning the corner in the Balt. game until the concussion that laid him out on the field but since then he's been everything but the model of consistency.

He overthrows the WR, TE and RBs. He's woefully inaccurate to the point that every drop by a receiver is magnified mainly because you don't know when the next good pass will be. As bad as the OL has been, a ton of its issues has been due to the indecision by MR in the passing game. His poor pocket presence, indecision and lack of awareness has him sliding into the pressure most of the time as he methodically "goes through his reads".

For a smart guy who watches film, he consistently seems to be baffled with the defensive alignments and where to go with the ball. This clip is the culmination of Mason Rudolph so far this year.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/11/film- ... down-play/

Yeah we lost JuJu, Johnson and Connor but 2 of those guys were had most of the game but what about last game, the game before that or most of the games so far this season?

Over the last two games (Rams and Browns), this O has netted 8pts and these are not two defensive juggernauts by any means.

MR needs to be the straw that stirs this drink but right now he's the straw that sits outside the glass.

Tomlin and Fichtner has done him no favors with the playcalling but Rudolph playing scared has done nothing for his game.

I've heard some people come up with the ridiculous argument that you can't judge people based on screenshots and they're STILL defending Rudolph for taking the safety vs the Rams.

It's unreal

[Texas Black & Gold]

it sounds to me he is taking responsibility for his actions. And that is how I saw it, an unnecessary hit and tackle after he released the ball.

https://www.steelers.com/news/rudolph-a ... -vs-browns

[K_C_]

People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anyone comparing him to Ben or expecting him to be that good. It's a strawman intended to deflect and excuse the fact that he's sucked.

What most people hoped for was better than what he's been, which by every objective measure is the worst starting QB in the league.

I like Duck, but I almost hope the kid gets a real shot (not what they let him do vs San Diego) in an upcoming game.

No Conner, no JuJu or Diontae. A seriously regressed offensive line.

I like Duck but I could also see him dying behind this o-line and with the weapons he'll likely have.

We'll see.

You have put everything wrong with the Steelers offense on Rudolph, which is completely laughable.

Sure, the kid absolutely sucked on the road against the Browns. A team filled with talent and plenty of that talent is on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm sure Duck'll save us though.

I'm not sure Duck is any better, talent wise than Rudolph

But with the Oline getting bitched about at least Duck has the legs to extend plays and save himself from getting killed.

I just don't want Rudolph to get the David Carr treatment

...and Duck is much smaller of frame than Mason.

Definitely more mobile, but he isn't Lamar Jackson.

I don't want to see that kid die either.

[El Kabong]

Yeah, we should have kept Dobbs and traded Rudolph. We would be in a much better situation right now. To be fair, I like both Rudolph and Duck. There's just something about Duck that you want to see more of (also rooting for the total underdog is always fun). But Rudolph doesn't suck. He had a bad game as all of the offence did (I think he was pushing too hard and that never creates a good outcome). Our OL looked like they were on Icecapades for crying out loud.

None of the QBs we have on the roster have the benefit of a QB coach or the benefit of an OC that knows how to run a professional football offence. I'll bet you $1000 that if the Steelers fired Fichtner and got an actual OC who knows his shit, that you would see a totally different offence - within 2 weeks! Fichtner got his job because of Ben, period!!! I said it before that it just goes to show you that Ben had way too much power and say on the offence - but it was the coaches and FO that gave him his power. Coaches coach and run the show - players fucking play - that should have always been the philosophy. Now we are stuck with fucking Fichtner!

Chicken or the egg. Is Fich that bad an OC (despite Ben throwing for 5000 yards and 34 TD's last year) and holding back Mason, or is Fich held back by the limitations of Mason and others on the offense.? Strange how losing AB and Ben can make an OC look a lot worse.

[LakecrestSteeler]

Duck is the most talented QB on the team at this very moment in time. He has more of what the Steelers need right now.

September 1st of 2019, probably not.
September 1st of 2020 minus Ben, probably not.

But right now he is the most talented. The Steelers O desperately needs more pocket mobility.

[bradshaw2ben]

Hahaha

No.

[Texas Black & Gold]

It's time to start a Roeth to Rudolph screen name.

When Rudolph wins a Steelers Super Bowl I will.