Game 159: Pirates vs. Cardinals (2nd Game of Doubleheader)

[Legacy User]

Luca, Texas will play in the ALDS.

We might win 99 games and be one and done.

I'm supposed to be happy we got 11 more regular season wins?

yes..thank god they getting their asses beat in this winnable game!

[jeemie]

Luca...why would people bitch when a team sucks and it's known that they suck?

You win, carry on. I'm to tired to bitch and complain about my favorite team that currently has 96 wins.

The Pirates may win 11 more games than last year and be one and done yet again.

And we're supposed to be happy about that?

I ride the roller coaster with my favorite team. I exult in the highs and despair in the lows.

99-63 in the end doesn't mean jack shit if Arrieta blows us away next Wednesday.

And the Cubs are leading the Reds 5-1. We have our work cut out for us to assure that game is not at Wrigley.

And we have to go into that last series having possibly been shut out in 3 of our last 4 games.

[jeemie]

Sigh.

Come on Arquimedes!

[jeemie]

Those two magical days in July seem like 100 years ago.

I'm out tonight. I need a break.

[Legacy User]

Truth is that:

1. The Pirates found out the hard way last year what happens when something other than black gets the roulette wheel's ball.

2. The Pirates said in Spring Training they were equipped to win the division and needed to do as much.

3. The Pirates have won 96 games, but that's 2nd best currently in this division, and that's all that is relevant, because while I don't care about Texas if they win their division with 11 fewer wins they will be guaranteed to make the elite 8...the Bucs won't be.

4. The Pirates should be grateful baseball allows 10 teams in the dance. Time was when only 2 went directly to the World Series, and then for a long time there was only a final 4.

5. The division was probably lost on Monday night even if the Pirates had swept this doubleheader. It is rare when either team sweeps a doubleheader. What is disgusting tonight is the total lack of heart this team has shown. I will agree that Morton wasn't worth his salt and shouldn't have started this game, but when you let Tyler Lyons crap down your necks knowing that that team will dance on your field and spray champagne in your house you have the makings of a team that's already willing to lay down in the roulette game if adversity shows itself.

[jeemie]

I don't know the Pirates showed a lack of heart, Bling. That's a little unfair.

Your entire approach changes when you are suddenly down by six runs.

And tonight the Pirates have smoked the ball hard half a dozen times...right at someone.

[Legacy User]

Truth is that:

1. The Pirates found out the hard way last year what happens when something other than black gets the roulette wheel's ball.

2. The Pirates said in Spring Training they were equipped to win the division and needed to do as much.

3. The Pirates have won 96 games, but that's 2nd best currently in this division, and that's all that is relevant, because while I don't care about Texas if they win their division with 11 fewer wins they will be guaranteed to make the elite 8...the Bucs won't be.

4. The Pirates should be grateful baseball allows 10 teams in the dance. Time was when only 2 went directly to the World Series, and then for a long time there was only a final 4.

5. The division was probably lost on Monday night even if the Pirates had swept this doubleheader. It is rare when either team sweeps a doubleheader. What is disgusting tonight is the total lack of heart this team has shown. I will agree that Morton wasn't worth his salt and shouldn't have started this game, but when you let Tyler Lyons crap down your necks knowing that that team will dance on your field and spray champagne in your house you have the makings of a team that's already willing to lay down in the roulette game if adversity shows itself.

wow..blunt but factual!!

[Legacy User]

what sucks most to me as I resigned catching cards Monday night is the fucking cubs are on our asses!! we cant rest anyone now and must win 2 vs reds to play at home.. and what a ripoff for the fans at tonights game..they had cole wacha...then rain gives them morton the garbage man and unhittable lyons. bad!

[jeemie]

what sucks most to me as I resigned catching cards Monday night is the fucking cubs are on our asses!! we cant rest anyone now and must win 2 vs reds to play at home.. and what a ripoff for the fans at tonights game..they had cole wacha...then rain gives them morton the garbage man and unhittable lyons. bad!

I'm hoping against hope the Cubs drop today's game...then all we have to do is win Friday and we can take a break Saturday and Sunday.

I'm thinking of taking a break for the weekend anyway....I invest way too emotionally in this stuff...I need a rest.

[Legacy User]

Best Pittsburgh manager is in Texas, finally put it together after the AS. break.

Clint has 3 more game he can screw up, Or the out field can drop fly balls or mis-run the bases.. Are we looking at a no hitter , or shut out.? Or both! Dismal situation for Cole..

[Legacy User]

Didn't see this commented on in the game thread previously, but more ammo for the Jon Jay haters out there.

http://deadspin.com/jon-jay-accidentally-fakes-a-ground-rule-double-pre-1733937498

He didn't do the normal two-hands-in-the-air thing, so I don't know if he's really faking a ground rule double like the announcers claim, but unless the umpires physically stopped the Pirate runners from advancing, there's no excuse for them or the coaches giving up on the play just because Jay stood there like a doofus with a hand in the air.

[Suwanee88]

If the Reds keep losing, and the Phillies keep winning, they may get the #1 pick in the draft - remember those days? They weren't that long ago.

[jeemie]

Clinch the game at PNC, and win the Roulette game, and all is forgiven in my book. Because then, in my mind, the path the World Series is wide open.

End up at Wrigley, and go out meekly, and the season is shit, no matter how many games we won.

The worst part about this, though, is the part of me that believes in BethSteel's idea that sports are fixed makes me think nothing would please the MLB powers that be more than to have the Yankees, Mets, and Cubs go as far as possible into the playoffs.

Teams like the Pirates and Royals don't excite them in the least.

[SteelPro]

Truth is that:

1. The Pirates found out the hard way last year what happens when something other than black gets the roulette wheel's ball.

2. The Pirates said in Spring Training they were equipped to win the division and needed to do as much.

3. The Pirates have won 96 games, but that's 2nd best currently in this division, and that's all that is relevant, because while I don't care about Texas if they win their division with 11 fewer wins they will be guaranteed to make the elite 8...the Bucs won't be.

4. The Pirates should be grateful baseball allows 10 teams in the dance. Time was when only 2 went directly to the World Series, and then for a long time there was only a final 4.

5. The division was probably lost on Monday night even if the Pirates had swept this doubleheader. It is rare when either team sweeps a doubleheader. What is disgusting tonight is the total lack of heart this team has shown. I will agree that Morton wasn't worth his salt and shouldn't have started this game, but when you let Tyler Lyons crap down your necks knowing that that team will dance on your field and spray champagne in your house you have the makings of a team that's already willing to lay down in the roulette game if adversity shows itself.

It sucks that 96 wins wasn't enough to win the division. The Cards won a division and the World Series recently with just 83 wins. But life isn't fair and neither is baseball. Bucs will need Cole to outduel Arrieta to advance. But before you talk about what the Pirates should be "grateful" for you should acknowledge that for quite a while 8 teams advanced to the postseason and none of them had to do it via a one and done wild card game. For most teams and the league as a whole the 2nd WC has been a benefit. For the Pirates it has been a curse. For the record I'm probably in the minority because I actually love this system... though the current divisional alignment I'm not real happy with. Just doesn't seem right that the Pirates and Phillies aren't in the same division.

[jeemie]

Truth is that:

1. The Pirates found out the hard way last year what happens when something other than black gets the roulette wheel's ball.

2. The Pirates said in Spring Training they were equipped to win the division and needed to do as much.

3. The Pirates have won 96 games, but that's 2nd best currently in this division, and that's all that is relevant, because while I don't care about Texas if they win their division with 11 fewer wins they will be guaranteed to make the elite 8...the Bucs won't be.

4. The Pirates should be grateful baseball allows 10 teams in the dance. Time was when only 2 went directly to the World Series, and then for a long time there was only a final 4.

5. The division was probably lost on Monday night even if the Pirates had swept this doubleheader. It is rare when either team sweeps a doubleheader. What is disgusting tonight is the total lack of heart this team has shown. I will agree that Morton wasn't worth his salt and shouldn't have started this game, but when you let Tyler Lyons crap down your necks knowing that that team will dance on your field and spray champagne in your house you have the makings of a team that's already willing to lay down in the roulette game if adversity shows itself.

It sucks that 96 wins wasn't enough to win the division. The Cards won a division and the World Series recently with just 83 wins. But life isn't fair and neither is baseball. Bucs will need Cole to outduel Arrieta to advance. But before you talk about what the Pirates should be "grateful" for you should acknowledge that for quite a while 8 teams advanced to the postseason and none of them had to do it via a one and done wild card game. For most teams and the league as a whole the 2nd WC has been a benefit. For the Pirates it has been a curse. For the record I'm probably in the minority because I actually love this system... though the current divisional alignment I'm not real happy with. Just doesn't seem right that the Pirates and Phillies aren't in the some division.

A 162 game season shouldn't come down to one game in the playoffs.

I thought that when the format was introduced, and I still think that now.

Here's how I'd do it, and all it would require is one extra day

Make the wild card a best of three in the first wild-card's ballpark. Do it over two days, with the first day being a doubleheader (can even make it day-night to make money and for TV).

Yeah- it would really screw with the wild-card teams' rotations but hey man...them's the breaks.

If that format was in place this year, there'd be the AL WCG doubleheader on Tuesday, three WCGs on Wednesday, and the NL clincher, if needed, on Thursday. The ALDS would start Friday instead of Thursday.

You could get everything back on track by taking away a travel day sometime later in the playoffs.

Of course, baseball probably would rather have the four playoff games on Friday rather than Saturday so as not to compete against college football. But I'm sure we could figure something out.

[Legacy User]

Truth is that:

1. The Pirates found out the hard way last year what happens when something other than black gets the roulette wheel's ball.

2. The Pirates said in Spring Training they were equipped to win the division and needed to do as much.

3. The Pirates have won 96 games, but that's 2nd best currently in this division, and that's all that is relevant, because while I don't care about Texas if they win their division with 11 fewer wins they will be guaranteed to make the elite 8...the Bucs won't be.

4. The Pirates should be grateful baseball allows 10 teams in the dance. Time was when only 2 went directly to the World Series, and then for a long time there was only a final 4.

5. The division was probably lost on Monday night even if the Pirates had swept this doubleheader. It is rare when either team sweeps a doubleheader. What is disgusting tonight is the total lack of heart this team has shown. I will agree that Morton wasn't worth his salt and shouldn't have started this game, but when you let Tyler Lyons crap down your necks knowing that that team will dance on your field and spray champagne in your house you have the makings of a team that's already willing to lay down in the roulette game if adversity shows itself.

It sucks that 96 wins wasn't enough to win the division. The Cards won a division and the World Series recently with just 83 wins. But life isn't fair and neither is baseball. Bucs will need Cole to outduel Arrieta to advance. But before you talk about what the Pirates should be "grateful" for you should acknowledge that for quite a while 8 teams advanced to the postseason and none of them had to do it via a one and done wild card game. For most teams and the league as a whole the 2nd WC has been a benefit. For the Pirates it has been a curse. For the record I'm probably in the minority because I actually love this system... though the current divisional alignment I'm not real happy with. Just doesn't seem right that the Pirates and Phillies aren't in the same division.

I remember the day when the NL and AL were just one single "division" and you had to be better than anybody in the entire league to advance.

Fair is a matter of perspective.

The Bucs deal with what we deal with. We'll kick Arietta's ass, and then everybody better look the fuck out.

[Legacy User]

What a choice! Locke or Morton. Ugh!

Right, it's a non-choice.

Where are our fucking pitching prospects that NH works so hard to acquire through the draft?

[SteelPro]

I hate the 3 game WC idea. You either ruin the game 7 feel of the WC, or you ruin the chances in the divisional series of the teams that do advance, or in some cases you do both. Nothing would be worse than having a WC DH sweep followed by divisional series sweep. And only hardcore fans would follow along on both games of a playoff DH. It is a terrible idea for the sport. Playoffs in baseball are fickle no matter how they are structured. I think the single WC game is the most fair (only 2 teams are really screwed by it each year) and it is a guarantee to create great drama for hardcore and casual fans.

[jeemie]

What a choice! Locke or Morton. Ugh!

Right, it's a non-choice.

Where are our fucking pitching prospects that NH works so hard to acquire through the draft?

When it was seen Morton and to a lesser degree, Locke, were so bad, the powers that be should have changed their minds and brought up Glasnow. Could he really have been any worse?

Absent that, either Worley or Blanton should have been tried to see how they'd be BEFORE these last series.

But I was with Pro. Locke sucks, but he sucks less than Morton, is a lefty with a better track against St. Louis.

Locke was also much better in HIS last start against Colorado than Morton was.

[SteelPro]

What a choice! Locke or Morton. Ugh!

Right, it's a non-choice.

Where are our fucking pitching prospects that NH works so hard to acquire through the draft?

Charlie Morton 2-12 with a 5.68 ERA against the Cardinals.
Charlie Morton 7.66 ERA this month

The right choice was ANYBODY BUT CHARLIE MORTON.

[Legacy User]

What a choice! Locke or Morton. Ugh!

Right, it's a non-choice.

Where are our fucking pitching prospects that NH works so hard to acquire through the draft?

Charlie Morton 2-12 with a 5.68 ERA against the Cardinals.
Charlie Morton 7.66 ERA this month

The right choice was ANYBODY BUT CHARLIE MORTON.

I respect you, Pro. And, TRUE, anybody but fucking Charlie Morton.

But that comment didn't really address what Jack and I were saying.

I would have preferred to see someone who the Cards, nor anyone, had ever seen before.

It seems we are a failure, for the most part, of bringing up our pitching prospects, with some exceptions of course.

[Legacy User]

Anyway....

This game is over.

We need to beat the fucking Reds and then go and beat mother fucking Arietta.

This is my focus.

And should be the focus of every Bucco. I'm sure it will be.

[SteelPro]

MJG...you and Jack are saying Hurdle didn't have the bullets to fire. You are also the guys that wax poetic about Chuck Tanner turning to Jim Rooker in game 5 of the 79 World Series. In reality on that day Rooker was the best of the some less than ideal options. Yesterday Morton was the worst of some less than ideal options. Hurdle had a choice yesterday and he chose badly. With that said I was a proponent of bringing Glasnow up this month too. That was a gamble worth taking.

[jeemie]

MJG...you and Jack are saying Hurdle didn't have the bullets fire. You are also the guys that wax poetic about Chuck Tanner turning to Jim Rooker in game 5 of the 79 World Series. In reality on that day Rooker was the best of the some less than ideal options. Yesterday Morton was the worst of some less than ideal options. Hurdle had a choice yesterday and he chose badly. With that said I was a proponent of bringing Glasnow up this month too. That was a gamble worth taking.

I've asked this before and I keep forgetting- what say does Hurdle have in who gets called up, pro?

Was not the decision not to bring up Glasnow mostly a NH decision?

So you could say he limited Hurdle a little bit.

But I agree that even without Glasnow, Hurdle had better, although less than ideal, options than Charlie Morton.

But in the end, the record against the Central is what's killing us.

We came into the month 21-29 against the NL Central. We knew we had to improve on that.

We have gone 11-12 against NL Central opponents this month...a major improvement...but not good enough. Not nearly good enough.

[SteelPro]

MJG...you and Jack are saying Hurdle didn't have the bullets fire. You are also the guys that wax poetic about Chuck Tanner turning to Jim Rooker in game 5 of the 79 World Series. In reality on that day Rooker was the best of the some less than ideal options. Yesterday Morton was the worst of some less than ideal options. Hurdle had a choice yesterday and he chose badly. With that said I was a proponent of bringing Glasnow up this month too. That was a gamble worth taking.

I've asked this before and I keep forgetting- what say does Hurdle have in who gets called up, pro?

Was not the decision not to bring up Glasnow mostly a NH decision?

So you could say he limited Hurdle a little bit.

But I agree that even without Glasnow, Hurdle had better, although less than ideal, options than Charlie Morton.

But in the end, the record against the Central is what's killing us.

We came into the month 21-29 against the NL Central. We knew we had to improve on that.

We have gone 11-12 against NL Central opponents this month...a major improvement...but not good enough. Not nearly good enough.

Hurdle manages the major league team. He'd not a scout. He isn't tracking progress of the minor league pitchers. If the scouts are telling him that Glasnow isn't ready he is going to defer to them. Part of what makes Hurdle a good manager is he trusts and empowers the people around him to do what they were hired to do. I mean I guess he could advocate to push a guy along quicker...and maybe he does...but I doubt he has the power to demand a guy be called up. And even if he did have that power he just wouldn't and nor should he do that. And yeah the scouting information all bubbles up to Huntington. He and Hurdle are shaping the roster together. It probably works with Hurdle saying he has general needs like my 5th starter isn't cutting it, or my bench needs some help. Huntington then agrees or disagrees (probably mostly agrees) and then presents the internal options that might fit according to what the scouts are saying. Then they jointly decide if those options are better than the status quo.

[Legacy User]

MJG...you and Jack are saying Hurdle didn't have the bullets to fire. You are also the guys that wax poetic about Chuck Tanner turning to Jim Rooker in game 5 of the 79 World Series. In reality on that day Rooker was the best of the some less than ideal options. Yesterday Morton was the worst of some less than ideal options. Hurdle had a choice yesterday and he chose badly. With that said I was a proponent of bringing Glasnow up this month too. That was a gamble worth taking.

The last part I am in accord with.

The rest? Huh?

Ok.

We wax poetic. I see.

[jeemie]

I got one thing right.

I said Hurdle would be second-guessed no matter which bad starter he used.



In the end, we'll never know if Hurdle's other options were better, and it wasn't really this game that killed us, even though it was the clincher.

The game that killed us was the loss in the Happ game. Man, we needed that one!

And now- unless we solve Arrieta, that guy's last memory of this season will be the hitters letting him down after he pitched what might have been the best game of his life.

I hated the Happ trade, but the guy may just be the best, most calm and collected pitcher we've got. he made the adjustment after he got slaughtered in the cubs' game, and now just goes out and does his job...every...single...time.

He's the anti-Morton- I never knew we had it in him.

Now I'm thinking we've got to sign this dude.

[Suwanee88]

I hate the 3 game WC idea. You either ruin the game 7 feel of the WC, or you ruin the chances in the divisional series of the teams that do advance, or in some cases you do both. Nothing would be worse than having a WC DH sweep followed by divisional series sweep. And only hardcore fans would follow along on both games of a playoff DH. It is a terrible idea for the sport. Playoffs in baseball are fickle no matter how they are structured. I think the single WC game is the most fair (only 2 teams are really screwed by it each year) and it is a guarantee to create great drama for hardcore and casual fans.

100% disagree with this. 162 game schedule that comes down to 1 game? Stupid. Almost as dumb as deciding home field advantage in the WS via the All Star Game Winner.

[jeemie]

In my mind I don't even consider the WCG a post-season appearance.

Just like I don't think of being in the play-in games as really being in the NCAA Tournament, even if they are officially considered part of it.

[SteelPro]

In my mind I don't even consider the WCG a post-season appearance.

Just like I don't think of being in the play-in games as really being in the NCAA Tournament, even if they are officially considered part of it.

I don't really consider it the playoffs either. It is a play in. No different than when two teams tied for the division they played a 163rd regular season game to break the tie. No one ever seemed to bitch about that though. You have 162 games to win the division...and if you don't this is what you deal with. A 3 game series doesn't make it any more legitimate to me.