Should Tomlin be on the Hot Seat?

[K_C_]

Okay, so this is a lost season due to injuries.

How about last season?

The 3 previous to that?

Is there a time frame where playoff wins matter going forward?

Dude, we're 4-4. Saying this is a lost season is a little dramatic, don't you think? You're basically being the resident drama queen right now. Get a grip.

Oh, I'm just going with the narrative that this team is too filled with injuries to make any noise in the postseason.

Not my narrative. Win with who ya got or fuck off.

I expect them to win playoff games. This season and beyond.

If they don't, the coach should be put on notice.

Immediately if not fucking sooner.

[StillerInCT]

Okay, so this is a lost season due to injuries.

How about last season?

The 3 previous to that?

Is there a time frame where playoff wins matter going forward?

Dude, we're 4-4. Saying this is a lost season is a little dramatic, don't you think? You're basically being the resident drama queen right now. Get a grip.

Oh, I'm just going with the narrative that this team is too filled with injuries to make any noise in the postseason.

Not my narrative. Win with who ya got or fuck off.

I expect them to win playoff games. This season and beyond.

If they don't, the coach should be put on notice.

Immediately if not fucking sooner.

Gotcha. I'm in a playoff or bust mode right now. With or without injuries.

[Obviously]

Colin Dunlap is an idiot and this is stupid.

Tomlin's never had a losing season, despite 0-4 starts, despite injuries, despite Ben being suspended, etc.

Not only that but he clearly has never lost the locker room throughout all of this. The number of NFL head coaches that are undoubtedly, and demonstratively better than Tomlin can be counted on one hand.

If Ben doesn't get hurt the Steelers are likely sitting at 6-2, maybe 7-1 right now. Hell they could be 5-3 or 6-2 even with Ben's injuries if Scobee makes a field goal or AB holds on to a touchdown pass, if Ben doesn't throw 3 INTs.

Sure they haven't won a playoff game in like 5 years and Tomlin definitely deserves some blame for that, but until it becomes obvious that the players don't want to play for him anymore or the franchise begins an obvious downward spiral, making a change would be stupid. Especially when there's no guarantee they hire someone better than what they have.

Does anyone really want head coach Todd Haley?

So you call Dunlop an idiot but take issue with KC's name calling? Hilarious.

So because of "extenuating circumstances" Tomlin's mediocre record since Tebow is okay. Yeah, sure. Some of those extenuating circumstances are Tomlin's out and out failures on clock management and bonehead decisions at critical points in games.

And why would we automatically get Todd Haley as head coach? To be honest, Haley is out of here long before Tomlin is.

[randomsteelerfan]

I just updated my Tomlin Apologist list to include you.

They are hilarious, aren't they?

What's actually funny is the abhorrent hate most of you guys spew. I mean, jesus christ, it's pathetic and sad. Do I love Tomlin? Hell no. Is he as bad as most of the narrow minds make him out to be? Hell no. Like most things in life, he's somewhere in the middle. Can the Steelers win with him? Yes. Why? Because they already have. Will they again? I don't fucking know.

Tomlin came in and coached the Steelers to 2 SB's. We know he can coach a team with talent. Unlike, for instance, Norv Turner, who can't.

Tomlin didn't build them like most new coaches have to. So, Tomlin's real job, rebuilding, that which most fans associate with new coaches, started in 2012.

Let's theoretically consider Tomlin didn't inherit a SB team and started after the fall.



2012 8-8
2013 8-8
2014 11-5

Improvement. So, I doubt any owner in the league, other than the retards, would fire a coach after that. Now, 9-7 or less this year should absolutely put him firmly on the hot seat and anything less than 11-5 w/ a deep run next year should get him replaced.

OMG, what a Tomlin apologist. Not an apologist or a chicken little. Just reality.

[FortyThree]

Okay, so this is a lost season due to injuries.

How about last season?

The 3 previous to that?

Is there a time frame where playoff wins matter going forward?

There shouldn't be a set "You have to do X in Y-years to be considered a good coach." That's stupid.

No one should think so rigidly, you have to consider the circumstances of each year.

Again, I go back to the idea that a coach is still viable as long as he is accomplishing the following:

1.) Putting a team on the field that is improving and/or trending upward. (I.E. they're not getting worse)

2.) Still has the respect of the locker room and has not "lost" the players.

3.) Is clearly contributing more to the team than he is subtracting.

Right now, I'd argue that it's a YES on all three of those for Tomlin. Winning the Super Bowl is what every team's goal is year after year, for sure. But that doesn't mean every season where you don't win is a total, abject failure. He lead a team that started 0-4 to an 8-8 record. He lead a team without Ben Roethlisberger for the first 4 games to a 3-1 record and a Super Bowl appearance that season. He's been able to lead his team to a 4-4 record this season despite numerous injuries.

For all we know they could rattle of a series of wins in the 2nd half of the season and finish 11-5 or 10-6 and make the playoffs. If they were to do that, I would see that as a positive in light of all the things they have going against them this season that they could not control.

The question is, if they make the playoffs when do you arbitrarily consider this to be a season that doesn't mean Tomlin is no longer "hot seat worthy"?

1 win? 2 wins? Super Bowl appearance? Winning the Super Bowl?

My guess is you would find a way to denigrate Tomlin and claim he should be fired regardless of how the season ends.

[StillMadAtSlobber]

Pierogi sighting at PFT?

from http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/06/will-dri-archer-be-claimed-on-waivers/#comments

mmmpierogi says:
Nov 6, 2015 10:41 AM

mmmpierogi says:
Nov 6, 2015 10:19 AM
handsofsteelhartofstone says:
Nov 6, 2015 9:07 AM
Tomlin needs to go

************************************************************************************

Exactly. Other things for which Tomlin is solely responsible:
-Jeff Reid punching out a Sheetz towel dispenser in Blairsville
-Hurricane Sandy
-Not being able to predict that Jason Worilds would retire after five years in the league
-The Great Recession
-Woodley gaining weight
-Picks spent on Shamarko, Jarvis, Sweed, and Mike Adams (ignoring that they’ve drafted guys like AB, Bell, Sanders, Pouncey, Heyward, Bryant, DeCastro, etc.)
-The Fukushima Daiichi Reactor incident. And also Chernobyl.
-The immigration crisis in Europe, and, let us not forget…
-Dri Archer.

These is but a short list of things for which Tomlin is solely at fault. The only reasonable option is to fire him immediately and rebuild the entire team.

[K_C_]

The question is, if they make the playoffs when do you arbitrarily consider this to be a season that doesn't mean Tomlin is no longer "hot seat worthy"?

Gotta win at least one game.

Going 5 straight years (yep, even with injuries) without a playoff win when you have a franchise QB is unacceptable.

[Legacy User]

I just updated my Tomlin Apologist list to include you.

They are hilarious, aren't they?

What's actually funny is the abhorrent hate most of you guys spew. I mean, jesus christ, it's pathetic and sad. Do I love Tomlin? Hell no. Is he as bad as most of the narrow minds make him out to be? Hell no. Like most things in life, he's somewhere in the middle. Can the Steelers win with him? Yes. Why? Because they already have. Will they again? I don't fucking know.

Tomlin came in and coached the Steelers to 2 SB's. We know he can coach a team with talent. Unlike, for instance, Norv Turner, who can't.

Tomlin didn't build them like most new coaches have to. So, Tomlin's real job, rebuilding, that which most fans associate with new coaches, started in 2012.

Let's theoretically consider Tomlin didn't inherit a SB team and started after the fall.



2012 8-8
2013 8-8
2014 11-5

Improvement. So, I doubt any owner in the league, other than the retards, would fire a coach after that. Now, 9-7 or less this year should absolutely put him firmly on the hot seat and anything less than 11-5 w/ a deep run next year should get him replaced.

OMG, what a Tomlin apologist. Not an apologist or a chicken little. Just reality.

Sort of circling round almost calling everyone a you know and thereby ending "abhorent" discussion of this "narrow minded" matter, check.

[Nick79]

Okay, so this is a lost season due to injuries.

How about last season?

The 3 previous to that?

Is there a time frame where playoff wins matter going forward?

Dude, we're 4-4. Saying this is a lost season is a little dramatic, don't you think? You're basically being the resident drama queen right now. Get a grip.

Oh, I'm just going with the narrative that this team is too filled with injuries to make any noise in the postseason.

Not my narrative. Win with who ya got or fuck off.

I expect them to win playoff games. This season and beyond.

If they don't, the coach should be put on notice.

Immediately if not fucking sooner.

Truth be told, there is enough offensive talent that is healthy for a good coach to get into the playoffs and win right now, even without Bell.

[FortyThree]

So you call Dunlop an idiot but take issue with KC's name calling? Hilarious.

I've never called Dunlap a "dumbfuck" or "retarded". Plus Dunlap doesn't post here so I'm not attacking the poster like Mr. Kill Cowher so often does.

And Dunlap has a history of being a contrarian who writes ridiculous articles just to get a rise out of people. He's a wannabe Mark Madden.

So because of "extenuating circumstances" Tomlin's mediocre record since Tebow is okay. Yeah, sure. Some of those extenuating circumstances are Tomlin's out and out failures on clock management and bonehead decisions at critical points in games.

Sure, and some of those wins were in games the team had no right to win either. And yet they somehow found a way. If they were going 4-12 or 6-10 every year I'd agree with you. Tomlin's never had a losing season. The players never quit on him. That's a lot more than can be said for a lot of bottom feeder coaches in the NFL.

I wouldn't say that a "mediocre record" is okay. But it's not enough to fire the guy over. And to come out after this season, where Tomlin has kept the team afloat through 8 games in which they've been without their franchise QB, the best RB in the NFL, their best deep threat receiver, their starting center, and an absolutely garbage kicking game. You have to give him credit for that. They could have fallen apart without Ben. They could have gone 0-4 without him. They easily could be the Ravens and be all but eliminated from playoff contention right now.

But they're not. And that should somehow be seen as a negative on Tomlin?

Also, I realize he's won a Super Bowl more recently but I find it funny that when discussing John Harbaugh one of the things that was cited on this very board as a positive is that the Ravens "haven't quit on him" this season. The same can be said for the Steelers and Tomlin but for Mike it doesn't matter? That's stupid.

And why would we automatically get Todd Haley as head coach? To be honest, Haley is out of here long before Tomlin is.

It was just an example. But there's a very good chance that if they were to fire Tomlin they would someone way worse. The odds are that they'll have to fail at hiring a head coach at some point.

[FortyThree]

Truth be told, there is enough offensive talent that is healthy for a good coach to get into the playoffs and win right now, even without Bell.

Assuming that good coach wasn't saddled with Todd Haley, you're correct. Otherwise all bets are off.

[randomsteelerfan]

Shocking that you wouldn't be able to see that no team in NFL wins more than they lose without their franchise QB and that keeping the season alive during that time period should be looked at as a positive rather than a negative.

Flip around the Steelers and Bengals in terms of luck with their overall health and I'd agree with you 100% that failing to have playoff success is inexcusable. But when you lose what the Steelers have lost to injury and suspension you have to consider that in looking at whether or not they were able to overcome that.

An overly simplistic view of the season would be "Deep playoff run = good, anything else = bad." So I do see where you're coming from.

So we're going on 5 straight years without a playoff win.

But making the playoffs this year would be enough for you. No wins needed.

Every single one of those years we had a ton of injuries/suspensions?

We lost our franchise QB every single one of those years to the point where winning in the playoffs wasn't necessary for a successful season?

Five years in a row, really?

With Tomlin, it's participation trophy time for sure.

Go ahead and buy in.

I'm so sick of hearing that we haven't won a playoff game in 4 years. It's beyond irrelevant. This year and next is where your concern and Tomlin's future should lie.

2011...Team was on the downswing, Ben had been hurt and never really got going to end the season.
2012...Pretty much team is old and rebuilding starts
2013...Rebuilding continues
2014...11-5, improvement all around, get unlucky w/ losing Bell and dumped by hot Ravens to end season.
2015...Eh, not sure what to say about it considering all the injuries. There's been good and bad so far.

I'm not defending 4 years and no playoff.

I'm simply saying that this is a legitimate and realistic team progression, regardless of the coach.

[Nick79]

We know he can coach a team with talent. Unlike, for instance, Norv Turner, who can't.

Then he's in position for a playoff run, with Ben back there is enough talent to do it.

My fear might be the in game decisions, strategy and play calling, which at times has gotten kind of bizarre, both over conservative and then oddly risky, the odd/bad clock management, and a lot of weird decisions.... even for me

[randomsteelerfan]

We know he can coach a team with talent. Unlike, for instance, Norv Turner, who can't.

Then he's in position for a playoff run, with Ben back there is enough talent to do it.

My fear might be the in game decisions, strategy and play calling, which at times has gotten kind of bizarre, both over conservative and then oddly risky, the odd/bad clock management, and a lot of weird decisions.... even for me

I absolutely agree on all points. This is Tomlin's make or break season, regardless of injuries, IMO.

[Nick79]

Truth be told, there is enough offensive talent that is healthy for a good coach to get into the playoffs and win right now, even without Bell.

Assuming that good coach wasn't saddled with Todd Haley, you're correct. Otherwise all bets are off.

I do agree, I find that these guys, whether it be Tomlin or Haley, have a hard time consistently utilizing what is actually great physical talent strategy wise.

[randomsteelerfan]

What's actually funny is the abhorrent hate most of you guys spew. I mean, jesus christ, it's pathetic and sad. Do I love Tomlin? Hell no. Is he as bad as most of the narrow minds make him out to be? Hell no. Like most things in life, he's somewhere in the middle. Can the Steelers win with him? Yes. Why? Because they already have. Will they again? I don't fucking know.

Tomlin came in and coached the Steelers to 2 SB's. We know he can coach a team with talent. Unlike, for instance, Norv Turner, who can't.

Tomlin didn't build them like most new coaches have to. So, Tomlin's real job, rebuilding, that which most fans associate with new coaches, started in 2012.

Let's theoretically consider Tomlin didn't inherit a SB team and started after the fall.



2012 8-8
2013 8-8
2014 11-5

Improvement. So, I doubt any owner in the league, other than the retards, would fire a coach after that. Now, 9-7 or less this year should absolutely put him firmly on the hot seat and anything less than 11-5 w/ a deep run next year should get him replaced.

OMG, what a Tomlin apologist. Not an apologist or a chicken little. Just reality.

Sort of circling round almost calling everyone a you know and thereby ending "abhorent" discussion of this "narrow minded" matter, check.

And, you're offended? What's the difference? That's what the majority here do to Tomlin. See how silly it sounds?

[COR-TEN]

jesus fucking christ.

I bet tomlin sucks threads out pace any other topic here. already at 14 pages, not including the 50 or so tomlin defenders thread.

You'd think they are the browns or some other hapless team with no success.

[K_C_]

You'd think they are the browns or some other hapless team with no success.

Who was it that said; "The standard is the standard?"

[langer]

"Sure Wayne Gretzky is the most prolific goal scorer of all-time, but you'll never change my mind...he wasn't the best player of all-time."

na, wait a mint son

I watched every bit of Gretzky's career and that of Lemieux. My hockey watching goes back to Gordie Howe and the Espositos et al. Gretzky was a fabulous, generational talent who had an otherworldly sense of where others were on the ice at all times and how to manipulate goaltenders. In an era where he was allowed free skating room with impunity, he was a perfect fit.

Mario Lemieux had nearly the same preternatural mental map of the ice and ability to deliver a pass in any window, over/under/around defenders. He had three things Gretzky could only dream of: 1. Size/reach 2.pinpoint accuracy on shots from every conceivable angle/type of shot 3.feel for the puck. By this I mean Mario could reach into a pile of guys fighting for a puck in a scrum and just instantly control the puck, pull it out, and do something with it while the other guys were still looking for the damn thing. Of course his reach helped with that but there's no substitute for just having the stick be an extension of your fingertips and he had the most of that of possibly anyone ever.

Despite the games missed with injuries largely caused from the physical beating he took precisely because he wasn't protected by the officiating the way Gretzky was and despite games missed from illness that there wasn't much he do about and despite being a shell of his former self towards the end, he still had an incredible career compared to everyone else in the history of the league and is right up there in career records, especially of the per game variety. Certainly, at his peak he was every bit the equal of Gretzky and almost inarguably better at his peak. When they played side by side, Lemieux was the star amongst stars.

It's my contention that if they had continued to officiate the rules for Lemieux the way they did for Gretzky and many other stars, Mario would have exceeded every record in the books. Regardless, I know you were just throwing it out there as an example but I'm guessing you might be too young to remember the two players and I have to stick up for the greatest.
/endrant

[FortyThree]

"Sure Wayne Gretzky is the most prolific goal scorer of all-time, but you'll never change my mind...he wasn't the best player of all-time."

na, wait a mint son

I watched every bit of Gretzky's career and that of Lemieux. My hockey watching goes back to Gordie Howe and the Espositos et al. Gretzky was a fabulous, generational talent who an otherworldly sense of where others were on the ice at all times and how to manipulate goaltenders. In an era where he was allowed free skating room with impunity, he was a perfect fit.

Mario Lemieux had nearly the same preternatural mental map of the ice and ability to deliver a pass in any window, over/under/around defenders. He had three things Gretzky could only dream of: 1. Size/reach 2.pinpoint accuracy on shots from every conceivable angle/type of shot 3.feel for the puck. By this I mean Mario could reach into a pile of guys fighting for a puck in a scrum and just instantly control the puck, pull it out, and do something with it while the other guys were still looking for the damn thing. Of course his reach helped with that but there's no substitute for just having the stick be an extension of your fingertips and he had the most of that of possibly anyone ever.

Despite the games missed with injuries largely caused from the physical beating he took precisely because he wasn't protected by the officiating the way Gretzky was and despite games missed from illness that there wasn't much he do about and despite being a shell of his former self towards the end, he still had an incredible career compared to everyone else in the history of the league and is right up there in career records, especially of the per game variety. Certainly, at his peak he was every bit the equal of Gretzky and almost inarguably better at his peak. When they played side by side, Lemieux was the star amongst stars.

It's my contention that if they had continued to officiate the rules for Lemieux the way they did for Gretzky and many other stars, Mario would have exceeded every record in the books. Regardless, I know you were just throwing it out there as an example but I'm guessing you might be too young to remember the two players and I have to stick up for the greatest.
/endrant

I actually 100% agree with you but I've never been able to successfully argue Lemieux's superiority because there are no real facts to point out.

[bradshaw2ben]

With all the injuries the team has had this season, just making the playoffs can be seen as a positive to me.

Shocking that you're the participation trophy type.

Absolutely shocking!

Shocking that you wouldn't be able to see that no team in NFL wins more than they lose without their franchise QB and that keeping the season alive during that time period should be looked at as a positive rather than a negative.

Flip around the Steelers and Bengals in terms of luck with their overall health and I'd agree with you 100% that failing to have playoff success is inexcusable. But when you lose what the Steelers have lost to injury and suspension you have to consider that in looking at whether or not they were able to overcome that.

An overly simplistic view of the season would be "Deep playoff run = good, anything else = bad." So I do see where you're coming from.

and, for all those complaining that I compare the state of our beloved franchise to the Detroits and the Clevelands of the world, I, too, think any year without a deep playoff run is a failure of sorts for this franchise. A playoff appearance still above the line compared to not. So let's evaluate the man's seasons based on that criteria:
2007: injury decimated playoff loss 0-0-1
2008: QB injury week 1, SB win 1-0-1
2009: bad 1-1-1
2010: QB suspension, SB appearance 2-0-1
2011: shaky D, inconsistent O, early playoff exit 2-0-2
2012: no playoffs 2-1-2
2013: screwed out of playoffs 2-2-2
2014: no bell, early playoff exit 2-2-3

So, by Pittsburgh Steelers standards (not Detroit Lions standards), the HC has 3 average seasons, 2 bad seasons, and 2 great seasons. You go apply that standard to anybody, including Mike McCarthy and other dudes with top QBs... let me know how it works out.

[bradshaw2ben]

Been barely above a .500 team since Tebow.
With a HOF QB
below the line above the neck: hc gm, cap guy, owner
NG

almost a complete rebuild on D and half the O

[Obviously]

Shocking that you wouldn't be able to see that no team in NFL wins more than they lose without their franchise QB and that keeping the season alive during that time period should be looked at as a positive rather than a negative.

Flip around the Steelers and Bengals in terms of luck with their overall health and I'd agree with you 100% that failing to have playoff success is inexcusable. But when you lose what the Steelers have lost to injury and suspension you have to consider that in looking at whether or not they were able to overcome that.

An overly simplistic view of the season would be "Deep playoff run = good, anything else = bad." So I do see where you're coming from.

So we're going on 5 straight years without a playoff win.

But making the playoffs this year would be enough for you. No wins needed.

Every single one of those years we had a ton of injuries/suspensions?

We lost our franchise QB every single one of those years to the point where winning in the playoffs wasn't necessary for a successful season?

Five years in a row, really?

With Tomlin, it's participation trophy time for sure.

Go ahead and buy in.

I'm so sick of hearing that we haven't won a playoff game in 4 years. It's beyond irrelevant. This year and next is where your concern and Tomlin's future should lie.

2011...Team was on the downswing, Ben had been hurt and never really got going to end the season.
2012...Pretty much team is old and rebuilding starts
2013...Rebuilding continues
2014...11-5, improvement all around, get unlucky w/ losing Bell and dumped by hot Ravens to end season.
2015...Eh, not sure what to say about it considering all the injuries. There's been good and bad so far.

I'm not defending 4 years and no playoff.

I'm simply saying that this is a legitimate and realistic team progression, regardless of the coach.

2012: Losses to the following SHITTY teams: Oakland (34-31), Tennessee (26-23), Cleveland (20-14), San Diego (34-24) - this one at home with the playoffs on the line. Go 2-7 in the last half of the season. I'll give you a good part of this can be attributed to Ben's injury in the KC game, but why in the hell did Tomlin stick with an obviously injured Byron Leftwich in the Ravens game at Heinz with Charlie Batch on the sidelines? The same Charlie Batch who would beat the Ravens two weeks later. Below the line, obviously.

2013: Start the season going 0-4. So added to the last half of 2012 a combined 2-11. In that 0-4 stretch, they had 40 dropped on them by the Bears at Heinz, and then go to London to lose to the hapless Vikings 34-27. Other SHITTY teams they lost to that season: Tennessee AGAIN (16-9), Oakland AGAIN (21-18). Also, let's not forget the Patriots dropping 55 on them which set a record for the most ever points scored against a Steelers defense in one game.

2014: Yes, definitely an improvement over the prior 8-8 seasons BUT, just squeaking by the SHITTY Jags and Titans (what is it with Tennessee and Oakland?) and losing to the SHITTY Bucs (27-24), Browns (31-10) and Jets (20-13). They won four straight to finish the season but Bell happens in the finale against the Bungles. And let's not gloss over the Ratbirds lost like they all of sudden got hot. Here's where Tomlin FUCKED UP. He jettisoned Blount (rightly so IMO) BUT NEVER REPLACED HIM! Bell gets hurt and they pick up Ben Tate. And Tomlin fucking panics when Tate fumbles on the opening drive even though he was gaining substantial yardage. Then we get a steady dose of Josh Harris. Lovely. Oh, and by the way, Blount goes on to pick up a ring with the Patsies.

Yes 2015 and the Steelers are 4-4. Nice wins against the 49ers (with Ben) and the Cards (without Ben). Courageous wins against the Rams (partially without Ben) and Chargers (without Ben). Three of the losses (Pats, Rats, Bungles) all winnable games, but it can be argued they were lost in large part due to Tomlin's boneheaded mistakes. Go back and read Perch's recaps of the Pats and Rats games. You all know what happened in the Bungles game last Sunday.

No I don't HATE Tomlin, but I sure don't think he's all that either. And YES, it is fair to say he should be on the hot seat.

[Obviously]

So, by Pittsburgh Steelers standards (not Detroit Lions standards), the HC has 3 average seasons, 2 bad seasons, and 2 great seasons. You go apply that standard to anybody, including Mike McCarthy and other dudes with top QBs... let me know how it works out.

Doesn't even come close to Belichick. And McCarthy has won his division the last four seasons, and will win it this season. Stop it already.

[Legacy User]

jesus fucking christ.

I bet tomlin sucks threads out pace any other topic here. already at 14 pages, not including the 50 or so tomlin defenders thread.

You'd think they are the browns or some other hapless team with no success.

I just find the you don't like tomlin makes you a blankity blank blank to be running up the white flag and running home to mommy with your junior sized football behavior. Its not pithy, stimulating nor intellectual. Its dull, boring, repetitious and shows a weak mind. MT is MT, not some generic reputation of something. He stands on his own merits and issues. Many think as shown by his track record that he can win with a winner but he cant build a winner. He's playing with Cowher's last chip and it isn't working out very well. If he's any kind of stereotype he's Gruden-ish. If that makes me a raging antiCoachite so be it

[bradshaw2ben]

So, by Pittsburgh Steelers standards (not Detroit Lions standards), the HC has 3 average seasons, 2 bad seasons, and 2 great seasons. You go apply that standard to anybody, including Mike McCarthy and other dudes with top QBs... let me know how it works out.

Doesn't even come close to Belichick. And McCarthy has won his division the last four seasons, and will win it this season. Stop it already.

who cares about winning division. How many deep playoff runs has McCarthy had? He's had the same number of overall seasons, with a better QB (supposedly) and a better D (supposedly). He's had exactly 1 playoff year where his team won more than 1 game and has nearly the same w-l in the postseason that Tomlin has Tomlin has two trips to the Super Bowl and as many championships, and that's with a team over that stretch that almost any objective observer would say was superior to Tomlin's.

He was winning the division because he had some of the worst teams in the NFL in said division. The Steelers under Tomlin have not really had that luxury.

[COR-TEN]

I dunno.

It seems to me that a football team/league, has too many moving parts to be able to place blame solely on one individual. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. Coaches make mistakes, but so do players. Coaches make great decisions, and players make great plays. The endless combination of those variables is what defines a season.

I think Steeler fans are spoiled. Anything less than a deep run into the playoffs is a disappointment. With this I agree. People like to point fingers.

[Obviously]

So, by Pittsburgh Steelers standards (not Detroit Lions standards), the HC has 3 average seasons, 2 bad seasons, and 2 great seasons. You go apply that standard to anybody, including Mike McCarthy and other dudes with top QBs... let me know how it works out.

Doesn't even come close to Belichick. And McCarthy has won his division the last four seasons, and will win it this season. Stop it already.

who cares about winning division. How many deep playoff runs has McCarthy had? He's had the same number of overall seasons, with a better QB (supposedly) and a better D (supposedly). He's had exactly 1 playoff year where his team won more than 1 game and has nearly the same w-l in the postseason that Tomlin has Tomlin has two trips to the Super Bowl and as many championships, and that's with a team over that stretch that almost any objective observer would say was superior to Tomlin's.

He was winning the division because he had some of the worst teams in the NFL in said division. The Steelers under Tomlin have not really had that luxury.

Deep playoff runs? Tomlin has only had two in his career, the last one five years ago. How does that constitute greatness? McCarthy isn't all that, I'll grant you, but his teams have been far more successful that Tomlin's in the last five years. Oh and by the way, he beat Tomlin in the Super Bowl so...ballgame.

Also, Belichick owns him, but then again BB owns most everybody except for Coughlin. Oh and Coughlin's won twice with Eli. I highly doubt Tomlin could do that.

[FortyThree]

So, by Pittsburgh Steelers standards (not Detroit Lions standards), the HC has 3 average seasons, 2 bad seasons, and 2 great seasons. You go apply that standard to anybody, including Mike McCarthy and other dudes with top QBs... let me know how it works out.

Doesn't even come close to Belichick. And McCarthy has won his division the last four seasons, and will win it this season. Stop it already.

To win his division McCarthy's team has to be better than Chicago, Minnesota, and Detroit. Every team in the AFC North not named Cleveland has been consistently better than all of those teams since Tomlin/McCarthy took over their respective teams.

[FortyThree]

Also, Belichick owns him, but then again BB owns most everybody except for Coughlin. Oh and Coughlin's won twice with Eli. I highly doubt Tomlin could do that.

Do you know the only QB in NFL history to win two Super Bowls while quarterbacking a team with a defense not ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense is Eli Manning?

Coughlin and John Madden are the only coaches to do it twice with defenses not in the Top 10.

Coughlin is a better coach than most people would give him credit for.