Early impressions...

[Scunge]

Ryan Switzer was impressive as the return man.

Averaged 23 yards a kick return and 11 yards a punt return. Had a long punt return of 22 yards and a long kick return of 28 yards. Even when there did not seem to be any blocking or room, he was able to use his quickness and moves to create yards.

James Conner. I said this week that James Conner would fumble at some point, no back is perfect in this regard, but they really got too conservative and predictable late in the game and made it easier for the Browns to tee off and swarm to Conner.

And as I have been pointing out all summer, Bell is a fumbler, has fumbled 7 times in his last 24 games, so don't sit here and tell me that Conner should be more like Bell because Bell never fumbles, yada, yada, yada.

In his first career start, his first time taking the bulk of the touches, he had what 36 touches?

31 carries, 135 yards, 4.4 per carry, 2 TDs, he did have a long play of 22 yards for a TD. Had 5 catches for 57 yards, 11.4 yards per carry, with a long catches of 19 and 15 yards.

The experiment to switch Dupree and Watt seems to be a resounding success. Dupree looks more natural from that ROLB spot, he was playing fast, using his speed to pressure the QB, had a couple instances where he stripped the ball out only to have it be recovered by the Browns. Watt had what, 3 sacks? And he was very slippery and was able to stuff the run, penetrate and cause runs for no gain and for loss. It also appeared that he was the one that blocked the FG.

Sean Davis. I don't know but to me he looked mighty fine back there. He was quick, he put himself in position to make plays on the ball, when he came up to make a tackle, he was secure and made good open field tackles. He had one INT called back and then made a good play to catch the one punt that did look to me like it did glance that Browns player's helmet.

Davis just has the prototypical size, speed and length to be that centerfielder who can get you 5-6-7 INTs on the backend.

Hilton had a few bad moments guarding Landry but also held his own and made plays as well.

The worst part of this game for me is Big Ben. I know people want him to play for 5 seasons, that we have the best chance to be competitive and win a Super Bowl but man, these games are becoming more and more frequent aren't they? You know what I am talking about, the bad Ben that just turns the ball over way too much, regardless of whether it is his fault or not. There were a number of other plays where he takes too many chances, like him about to get sacked and then he hands it off to Conner at the very last instant. He is lucky that was not a turnover. I have seen other HOF QBs, looking at you Brett Farve, that just become a little to frenetic, and desperate with the ball, too antsy.

You have to be better than this Ben, I just wish you would distribute the football and quit forcing the issue. Still forcing the ball to Brown too much in critical situations, need to start trusting and relying on your other options.

Bostic, I thought played reasonably well today, Vince Williams, I just really noticed him and his lack of speed not able to make plays that required him to sprint out to the sidelines. Also I noticed some big runs that started with him being the first man sliding off the tackle.

I will think of more but right now those are the main thoughts that I have

[Obviously]

Great analysis Scunge. Especially this:

The worst part of this game for me is Big Ben. I know people want him to play for 5 seasons, that we have the best chance to be competitive and win a Super Bowl but man, these games are becoming more and more frequent aren't they? You know what I am talking about, the bad Ben that just turns the ball over way too much, regardless of whether it is his fault or not. There were a number of other plays where he takes too many chances, like him about to get sacked and then he hands it off to Conner at the very last instant. He is lucky that was not a turnover. I have seen other HOF QBs, looking at you Brett Farve, that just become a little to frenetic, and desperate with the ball, too antsy.

You have to be better than this Ben, I just wish you would distribute the football and quit forcing the issue. Still forcing the ball to Brown too much in critical situations, need to start trusting and relying on your other options.

[steelmann58]

Ben looked bad again on the road continues for him he going to have to amp up his game if he wants to get back to a sb

[Legacy User]

I found it mind numbing that Ben, while being sacked, would try and hand it to a Connor there.....

It was either 21-14 or 21-21 on that play

WTF is he thinking?

Has to take care of the ball better and his lack of pocket awareness is really scary.

[oldsteelerfan]

Great analysis Scunge. Especially this:

The worst part of this game for me is Big Ben. I know people want him to play for 5 seasons, that we have the best chance to be competitive and win a Super Bowl but man, these games are becoming more and more frequent aren't they? You know what I am talking about, the bad Ben that just turns the ball over way too much, regardless of whether it is his fault or not. There were a number of other plays where he takes too many chances, like him about to get sacked and then he hands it off to Conner at the very last instant. He is lucky that was not a turnover. I have seen other HOF QBs, looking at you Brett Farve, that just become a little to frenetic, and desperate with the ball, too antsy.

You have to be better than this Ben, I just wish you would distribute the football and quit forcing the issue. Still forcing the ball to Brown too much in critical situations, need to start trusting and relying on your other options.

Yep

[Gonzo]

I do agree the forcing to AB - wherever that comes from - has to stop

[Jobu]

Ryan Switzer was impressive as the return man.

Averaged 23 yards a kick return and 11 yards a punt return. Had a long punt return of 22 yards and a long kick return of 28 yards. Even when there did not seem to be any blocking or room, he was able to use his quickness and moves to create yards.

James Conner. I said this week that James Conner would fumble at some point, no back is perfect in this regard, but they really got too conservative and predictable late in the game and made it easier for the Browns to tee off and swarm to Conner.

And as I have been pointing out all summer, Bell is a fumbler, has fumbled 7 times in his last 24 games, so don't sit here and tell me that Conner should be more like Bell because Bell never fumbles, yada, yada, yada.

In his first career start, his first time taking the bulk of the touches, he had what 36 touches?

31 carries, 135 yards, 4.4 per carry, 2 TDs, he did have a long play of 22 yards for a TD. Had 5 catches for 57 yards, 11.4 yards per carry, with a long catches of 19 and 15 yards.

The experiment to switch Dupree and Watt seems to be a resounding success. Dupree looks more natural from that ROLB spot, he was playing fast, using his speed to pressure the QB, had a couple instances where he stripped the ball out only to have it be recovered by the Browns. Watt had what, 3 sacks? And he was very slippery and was able to stuff the run, penetrate and cause runs for no gain and for loss. It also appeared that he was the one that blocked the FG.

Sean Davis. I don't know but to me he looked mighty fine back there. He was quick, he put himself in position to make plays on the ball, when he came up to make a tackle, he was secure and made good open field tackles. He had one INT called back and then made a good play to catch the one punt that did look to me like it did glance that Browns player's helmet.

Davis just has the prototypical size, speed and length to be that centerfielder who can get you 5-6-7 INTs on the backend.

Hilton had a few bad moments guarding Landry but also held his own and made plays as well.

The worst part of this game for me is Big Ben. I know people want him to play for 5 seasons, that we have the best chance to be competitive and win a Super Bowl but man, these games are becoming more and more frequent aren't they? You know what I am talking about, the bad Ben that just turns the ball over way too much, regardless of whether it is his fault or not. There were a number of other plays where he takes too many chances, like him about to get sacked and then he hands it off to Conner at the very last instant. He is lucky that was not a turnover. I have seen other HOF QBs, looking at you Brett Farve, that just become a little to frenetic, and desperate with the ball, too antsy.

You have to be better than this Ben, I just wish you would distribute the football and quit forcing the issue. Still forcing the ball to Brown too much in critical situations, need to start trusting and relying on your other options.

Bostic, I thought played reasonably well today, Vince Williams, I just really noticed him and his lack of speed not able to make plays that required him to sprint out to the sidelines. Also I noticed some big runs that started with him being the first man sliding off the tackle.

I will think of more but right now those are the main thoughts that I have

Sadly...you are correct about Ben. A turnover or two is going to happen, but he is having way too many of these 4-5-6 turnover games. That just cannot happen from your veteran QB.
6 turnovers, 150ish yards in penalties...including several really stupid undisciplined ones. A missed field goal, and Mike Tomlin on the sidelines, in a monsoon, on the road...I guess we should be happy they got out of there with the tie.

[steelmann58]

Terrible game to many penalties and turnover of a team looking to win a championship

[Scunge]

Yeah, I agree Jobus. That is why I don't think it is a slam dunk certainty that Ben get an extension by the team. If Ben plays more and more like this, if he is basically like an Andy Dalton, do you continue to pay that big money to him?

Who knows a Josh Dobbs/Mason Rudolph duo where both have very low cap hits may be very enticing to the Steelers for the 2020 season.

Just the first game, but man the offense really needed to get off to a fast start, they have to win the bulk of their games in the first half, because it is going to be tough sledding in the second half of the season. But hey, a tie does count as half a win, so there is that.

[Legacy User]

I found it mind numbing that Ben, while being sacked, would try and hand it to a Connor there.....

It was either 21-14 or 21-21 on that play

WTF is he thinking?

Has to take care of the ball better and his lack of pocket awareness is really scary.

Shockingly irresponsible for a 15 year veteran. Agreed. Glad it worked out but still...

[alancac98]

That's what happens when the head coach decides to sit the starting offence nearly all preseason. No other team that I saw had their starting QB and offence on the field for only 1 quarter of a game. That is not gonna get it done when you need the team to gel from the onset of the season. This offence played this game like it was a preseason game and it showed.

[Scunge]

But that is part of the problem Jack, people are making excuse for Ben, saying well, that INT is Jesse James fault, or this is so so's fault but Ben is in my mind influencing these turnovers.

Far too often a play is breaking down, or their is confusion at the start presnap and Ben refuses to shut it down, he will stubbornly try to salvage it, to make it work, to force the issue. Sometimes a QB needs to know when to just take a sack, or throw the ball away, or the check down. Here Ben is, this veteran QB who should know better and yet he still persists in these bad habits.

And to make matters worse, the offense is very young and/or has new faces at the skill positions, Conner, Samuels, Switzer, Washington, Juju, etc, if your veteran QB is playing frantic, how the hell must it be for these young players around him? Ben needs to clean his shit up, he needs to take stock of what he is doing wrong because his bad play propagates through, influences these young players.

[Legacy User]

On the other hand, the devil's advocate would say, that's what we love about Ben, his ability to extend plays and make something out of nothing. It's what we loved about Bradshaw, who was far from the most responsible quarterback in NFL history with the ball. Neil O'Dummell was (outside of that one Super Bowl) extremely responsible with the ball, and I don't hear anyone pining for him.

Like you I hope that as players mature they grow out of their immature ways. Brad sure did, although never completely. But I'm not sure we'll ever get that with Ben. I hope to be proven incorrect about this.

[955876]

Ben looked bad again on the road continues for him he going to have to amp up his game if he wants to get back to a sb

I know it’s early and we all have a bad taste in our mouth but if I had to wager real $$$ right this moment I would bet the next time this team appears in a SB it will be with a different QB and HC.

Ben doesn’t have enough magic to overcome bad coaching while the coaching isn’t good enough to win on a day Ben isn’t at his best.

[Legacy User]

But that is part of the problem Jack, people are making excuse for Ben, saying well, that INT is Jesse James fault, or this is so so's fault but Ben is in my mind influencing these turnovers.

Far too often a play is breaking down, or their is confusion at the start presnap and Ben refuses to shut it down, he will stubbornly try to salvage it, to make it work, to force the issue. Sometimes a QB needs to know when to just take a sack, or throw the ball away, or the check down. Here Ben is, this veteran QB who should know better and yet he still persists in these bad habits.

And to make matters worse, the offense is very young and/or has new faces at the skill positions, Conner, Samuels, Switzer, Washington, Juju, etc, if your veteran QB is playing frantic, how the hell must it be for these young players around him? Ben needs to clean his shit up, he needs to take stock of what he is doing wrong because his bad play propagates through, influences these young players.

My favorite is people primarily blaming Tomlin for Ben. As if Ben has nothing to do with his own preparedness. This ain’t his first rodeo.

Said it before say it again now: the obsession with AB ain’t Haley, Fichtner, nor Tomlin. It’s Ben.

[Legacy User]

Ben doesn’t have enough magic to overcome bad coaching while the coaching isn’t good enough to win on a day Ben isn’t at his best.

Well thought.

[Donnie Brasco]

On the other hand, the devil's advocate would say, that's what we love about Ben, his ability to extend plays and make something out of nothing. It's what we loved about Bradshaw, who was far from the most responsible quarterback in NFL history with the ball. Neil O'Dummell was (outside of that one Super Bowl) extremely responsible with the ball, and I don't hear anyone pining for him.

Like you I hope that as players mature they grow out of their immature ways. Brad sure did, although never completely. But I'm not sure we'll ever get that with Ben. I hope to be proven incorrect about this.

Ben used to be automatic when he has to engineer a game winning drive. Now you worry when he's gonna take an unnecessary sack to knock us out of fg range

[Jobu]

On the other hand, the devil's advocate would say, that's what we love about Ben, his ability to extend plays and make something out of nothing. It's what we loved about Bradshaw, who was far from the most responsible quarterback in NFL history with the ball. Neil O'Dummell was (outside of that one Super Bowl) extremely responsible with the ball, and I don't hear anyone pining for him.

Like you I hope that as players mature they grow out of their immature ways. Brad sure did, although never completely. But I'm not sure we'll ever get that with Ben. I hope to be proven incorrect about this.

Ben used to be automatic when he has to engineer a game winning drive. Now you worry when he's gonna take an unnecessary sack to knock us out of fg range

He’s certainly not the same player...hasn’t been for a few years now. And when it comes to football, it doesn’t get better with age.

[955876]

Reality is that Ben still plays like he’s a 24 year old kid rather than a 15 year vet.

His cognitive awareness for the game stopped progressing long ago.

That flip to Conner as he was getting sacked...

Not a smart play. Like so many countless others today.

[Kodiak]

My favorite is people primarily blaming Tomlin for Ben. As if Ben has nothing to do with his own preparedness. This ain’t his first rodeo.

Ben wanted more reps in PS #3.....Tomlin shut that down.

Tomlin, not Ben, sat AB all preseason.

[Legacy User]

My favorite is people primarily blaming Tomlin for Ben. As if Ben has nothing to do with his own preparedness. This ain’t his first rodeo.

Ben wanted more reps in PS #3.....Tomlin shut that down.

Tomlin, not Ben, sat AB all preseason.

Oh Tomlin is an asshole.

But Ben is a 15 year vet. WTF. I’m not about to say what I saw was ALL Tomlin’s fault. Hell no.

[Kodiak]

Reality is that Ben still plays like he’s a 24 year old kid rather than a 15 year vet.

I honestly really won't criticize that. 1 horrid decision, and 2 picks that weren't his fault. Should have had another but every QB gets away with one of those every game.

No, I'm more concerned that Ben had 4-5 chances to win/ice that game and he didn't get it done. Again, I blame this all on the offense not being ready to ball Wk1. But we've never seen Ben shoot blanks like that for over a quarter with a W on the line.

[Jobu]

My favorite is people primarily blaming Tomlin for Ben. As if Ben has nothing to do with his own preparedness. This ain’t his first rodeo.

Ben wanted more reps in PS #3.....Tomlin shut that down.

Tomlin, not Ben, sat AB all preseason.

Oh Tomlin is an asshole.

But Ben is a 15 year vet. WTF. I’m not about to say what I saw was ALL Tomlin’s fault. Hell no.

Nope...plenty of fuck ups today...including the QB AND head coach.

[Legacy User]

Poor Ben, the weather just won’t leave him alone.

[955876]

[quote]My favorite is people primarily blaming Tomlin for Ben.[/quote

I blame Tomlin for doing the same dumb shit over and over and not learning from the past.

I blame Ben for continually playing a more error prone game than his much less experienced and frankly less talented counterparts.

Reality is tj S isn’t goung to hange because neither recognize the problem.

I guarantee in Tomlin’s mind this loss is simply because of the weather and not protecting the ball.

Self reflection is not part of his “standard”.

[Kodiak]

Oh Tomlin is an asshole.

Literally his only fucking job is to have the team ready to play.

[955876]

Reality is that Ben still plays like he’s a 24 year old kid rather than a 15 year vet.

I honestly really won't criticize that. 1 horrid decision, and 2 picks that weren't his fault. Should have had another but every QB gets away with one of those every game.

No, I'm more concerned that Ben had 4-5 chances to win/ice that game and he didn't get it done. Again, I blame this all on the offense not being ready to ball Wk1. But we've never seen Ben shoot blanks like that for over a quarter with a W on the line.

No internal clock. Holding the ball and taking sacks/getting stripped. Flicking it to his RB while taking a sack in a mob of people. Throwing into triple coverage.

Young gunslinger Ben would pull shit out of his ass. We haven’t seen that guy for years.

My point is the guy just refuses to realize that he who makes fewer mistakes has the greater chance of winning.

Browns could likely have started the waterboy at QB and had him play a cleaner game that our guy did today.

[SteelyourFace]

Here is my early impression....Tomlin's moronic decision to make Conner carry the ball 35 times cost the team the game. he was very clearly gassed in Q4. that's not a knock on JC. He needed some rest. and a perfectly decent option rotting on the bench. no excuse.

[JJT07]

Not using any other back was insane.

But agree with most, anyone solely blaming the coach and not the $200mm QB is off base. Ben was awful today.

[LakecrestSteeler]

That's what happens when the head coach decides to sit the starting offence nearly all preseason. No other team that I saw had their starting QB and offence on the field for only 1 quarter of a game. That is not gonna get it done when you need the team to gel from the onset of the season. This offence played this game like it was a preseason game and it showed.

Groundhog Day on this board again! Ben is awful, need to start think about yanking him. Hogwash!

Ben is fine. Ben is a baller.

He has some rust. And as Alan says it is due to Tomlin’s preseason mantra. He does not believe in playing the veterans. His whole goal is to minimize injuries, and minimize energy expenditure in the lean months. He just wants the team to peak in December. It works, but this rust is the result.

I watched the game at the a bar.....never again! What was I thinking. There were a ton of Cleveland fans in overtime!

I am still fuming about the punt return touch BS. That should have been Steeler ball. Tomlin should have tried to get thrown out at that moment to send an early message to fucking NY! I have know idea how that gets screwed up on instant replay. Their quality control numbers must be horrendous especially it seems with the Steelers!! What did the commentators say?

Also in Conners defense, I am not that big of a fan, most RBs will fumble that when they get hit in the backfield from behind, a split second after the handoff in those conditions. Think someone missed a chip on that one.

I thought Ben force distributed it in the 1st quarter to the detriment of the drives. Thought we needed more AB in the 1st quarter and less in the 2nd half. That man is so good though!

I was oddly satisfied with the tie. Weather, turnovers, Bell debacle, and getting the shaft on the illegal punt touch. It felt like our first real preseason game and I was happy with the product, assuming Tomlin’s track record for always having the trendline pointing up and peaking in December continues.

I assume nobody on the board had a tie in their pre-season record predictions!?