James "THE KING" Harrison

[R_S]

No one will admit that here. They would rather attack an all time Steeler great over and over than admit to any wrong doing by Herm Tomlin.

This is flat out incorrect.

Tomlin made his decision, right or wrong, better or worse. He’s the coach. It’s his team and the players on his team are to be used how he sees fit. They wanted to move the D and OLBs in a different direction, away from Harrison. Their prerogative, right or wrong. Did Harrison’s behavior quicken that transition? We can only speculate.

Personally, I’ve lost faith in Tomlin 100%. He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore. I disagree with him on almost every front and I think he fucked up the JH situation colossally.

That being said, it has nothing to do with JHs behavior. Abso-fucking-lutely nothing. JH is 100% percent wrong. 100%. No ifs, ands, or buts. He’s wrong. Just like Tomlin is.

Those of you that want to justify his behavior because he was treated poorly. Man the fuck up. Life isn’t fair. We don’t get our way all the time. Moral character and the quality of a man is revealed in these times. And JH revealed who he is. And it isn’t much.

So, stop with the “all time great” and “Steeler legend” bullshit. It’s irrelevant. He’s no better and deserves nothing more than any of the other 52 guys on the roster.

I disagree. He's earned more than being lied to and told he would be used as a situational pass rusher and then made inactive on game days. He was misled. For an organization that prides itself on doing right by it's players, they really did him wrong. How he reacted, though not right, was no surprise. It turns out, Harrison was correct. It's a shame it had to go down the way it did, but it seems they backed him into a corner with either straight up deception or complete moronic coaching.

[bradshaw2ben]

IIRC, it was HARRISON who wouldn't play STs here.

[Legacy User]

IIRC, it was HARRISON who wouldn't play STs here.

Inference: not for Tomlin, but will for Hoodie.

[Legacy User]

IIRC, it was HARRISON who wouldn't play STs here.

if it was, it was probably after Tomlin had already lost any goodwill with Harrison for lying and reneging on his playing time.

[bradshaw2ben]

IIRC, it was HARRISON who wouldn't play STs here.

if it was, it was probably after Tomlin had already lost any goodwill with Harrison for lying and reneging on his playing time.

Last year, too... before all the ruckus.

Also, how do we know it was MT who made any promises? More likely Porter, and Porter was the guy most snubbed/disrespected by Harrison (and vice-versa). I'm guessing there's some deeply personal shit between those two, seeing as Porter lost his gig here to Harrison.

[randomsteelerfan]

I think the defenders of the Harrison debacle are dissolving like an Alka Seltzer

And here’s another bs point.

To everyone clamoring that JH could still play and should have been given more snaps. I call bs. To everyone bitching that they “knew”. Bullshit.

Nobody saw JH play this year. Nobody knew if he could or couldn’t play. You assumed. Everyone assumed. So stop the “mightier than thou” “self-righteous” told you so bs.

You all hoped he could. You all thought maybe he could. But nobody knew. Now, everyone on the JH side of the argument is acting like they won some lottery because “they knew”. Bullshit.

Nobody knew.

And that’s solely on Tomlin. And Porter. They should have known. And if they did know and still jettisoned James, then they can’t be trusted with the well-being of this organization any longer.

[swissvale72]

It's enough to know that he DID help the Pats... and that cannot happen.

Tomlin and Co. need to catch a significant amount of heat for how they handled Harrison this year. Many of us were screaming our heads off when they cut Harrison and the Patriots signed him (hence the 118+ page monster thread), and it looks like those of us who questioned the decision have been proven correct.

For those of you who live in Pittsburgh, what if anything is the prevailing attitude regarding the decision to cut Harrison. I saw this article in the Trib yesterday: http://triblive.com/sports/columnists/k ... rrison-and

I expect that if Harrison has a good Super Bowl, the decision to cut Harrison will be second guessed even more than it already is.

No one will admit that here. They would rather attack an all time Steeler great over and over than admit to any wrong doing by Herm Tomlin.

I don't know about that, RS. I know my position was giving Tomlin an undeserved benefit of the doubt, HOPING that his not playing Harrison, the contention that Harrison had nothing left, the analysis that Harrison no longer fit in the Steelers defense given the pass defense responsibilities of the OLBs were all correct.

I maintained then, and continue to maintain now, that the GREATEST sin....as we really don't know what was told to Harrison, don't know the extent to which Harrison acted like an immature dick.....was Tomlin CUTTING Harrison, thereby delivering him gift-wrapped, replete with bow, to the team that we THOUGHT would be our greatest obstacle to a Super Bowl appearance.

[Legacy User]

I think the defenders of the Harrison debacle are dissolving like an Alka Seltzer

And here’s another bs point.

To everyone clamoring that JH could still play and should have been given more snaps. I call bs. To everyone bitching that they “knew”. Bullshit.

Nobody saw JH play this year. Nobody knew if he could or couldn’t play. You assumed. Everyone assumed. So stop the “mightier than thou” “self-righteous” told you so bs.

You all hoped he could. You all thought maybe he could. But nobody knew. Now, everyone on the JH side of the argument is acting like they won some lottery because “they knew”. Bullshit.

Nobody knew.

And that’s solely on Tomlin. And Porter. They should have known. And if they did know and still jettisoned James, then they can’t be trusted with the well-being of this organization any longer.

I don't understand this. What's the point of being right if you can't be an asshole about it? You're sucking all the fun out of the truth.

[Ice]

Well, this thread is only about 24 pages too long.

[COR-TEN]

I'm reserving judgment to some extent because I don't know exactly what went on behind close doors.

And making judgements on hearsay is illogical, and stupid when you defend it like it were the truth calling others dumb for questioning the validity of said comments. Or questioning the ability of harrison to demand starter snaps on a team that is mentoring and nurturing the future. After releasing a coach that shelved players for three years to "learn the system." A philosophy that was widely disputed and shit upon by this board.

There's no doubt Harrison can contribute. I'm not expecting him to drop into coverage, but he has something to offer. The question is what is the trade off. Many here believe it's overwhelmingly in favor of Harrison, regardless of his behavior. Others not so much. I didn't see his play as being extraordinary. Effective? Sure. For the amount of snaps and the system he's playing in. Did he help the Pats pass rush? Sure. They were looking to shore it up. His experience is valuable, but I'm not going so far as to say he won the game for the pats or was hugely instrumental.

Stats aren't everything in football. You have to have your finger on the pulse of the game. That's what people argue about. I'm in the camp that the Pats would have won with or without Harrison's strip sack, assisted sack, or pressure. And that's a matter of opinion, not fact. Because predicting it either way is speculation. I admit to that.

[Legacy User]

Well, this thread is only about 24 pages too long.

It's part of the off-season catharsis regimen.

[Legacy User]

"swissvale72"]

It's enough to know that he DID help the Pats... and that cannot happen.

Tomlin and Co. need to catch a significant amount of heat for how they handled Harrison this year. Many of us were screaming our heads off when they cut Harrison and the Patriots signed him (hence the 118+ page monster thread), and it looks like those of us who questioned the decision have been proven correct.

For those of you who live in Pittsburgh, what if anything is the prevailing attitude regarding the decision to cut Harrison. I saw this article in the Trib yesterday: http://triblive.com/sports/columnists/k ... rrison-and

I expect that if Harrison has a good Super Bowl, the decision to cut Harrison will be second guessed even more than it already is.

No one will admit that here. They would rather attack an all time Steeler great over and over than admit to any wrong doing by Herm Tomlin.

I don't know about that, RS. I know my position was giving Tomlin an undeserved benefit of the doubt, HOPING that his not playing Harrison, the contention that Harrison had nothing left, the analysis that Harrison no longer fit in the Steelers defense given the pass defense responsibilities of the OLBs were all correct.

I maintained then, and continue to maintain now, that the GREATEST sin....as we really don't know what was told to Harrison, don't know the extent to which Harrison acted like an immature dick.....was Tomlin CUTTING Harrison, thereby delivering him gift-wrapped, replete with bow, to the team that we THOUGHT would be our greatest obstacle to a Super Bowl appearance.[/quote]




i agree thats the biggest sin Swiss, but isnt it equally damning that JH clearly had something left and these dipshits failed to see that and use him correspondingly, no reason he couldnt help us and develop the younger guys as well. I think Tomlin fucked that situation up from any angle you choose to look at it, and yes JH was a fucking dick afterwards but they pretty much begged him to come out of retirement to play and contribute. Most players dont deserve that sort of guarantee but i think in this situation JH did

[randomsteelerfan]

This is flat out incorrect.

Tomlin made his decision, right or wrong, better or worse. He’s the coach. It’s his team and the players on his team are to be used how he sees fit. They wanted to move the D and OLBs in a different direction, away from Harrison. Their prerogative, right or wrong. Did Harrison’s behavior quicken that transition? We can only speculate.

Personally, I’ve lost faith in Tomlin 100%. He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore. I disagree with him on almost every front and I think he fucked up the JH situation colossally.

That being said, it has nothing to do with JHs behavior. Abso-fucking-lutely nothing. JH is 100% percent wrong. 100%. No ifs, ands, or buts. He’s wrong. Just like Tomlin is.

Those of you that want to justify his behavior because he was treated poorly. Man the fuck up. Life isn’t fair. We don’t get our way all the time. Moral character and the quality of a man is revealed in these times. And JH revealed who he is. And it isn’t much.

So, stop with the “all time great” and “Steeler legend” bullshit. It’s irrelevant. He’s no better and deserves nothing more than any of the other 52 guys on the roster.

I disagree. He's earned more than being lied to and told he would be used as a situational pass rusher and then made inactive on game days. He was misled. For an organization that prides itself on doing right by it's players, they really did him wrong. How he reacted, though not right, was no surprise. It turns out, Harrison was correct. It's a shame it had to go down the way it did, but it seems they backed him into a corner with either straight up deception or complete moronic coaching.

I’m literally dumbfounded that people can justify JH behavior. Whatever. That speaks directly to character. And character doesn’t have the benefit of revealing itself when when circumstances are right. Character doesn’t get a pass because the individual was “backed into a corner”. That’s precisely when character better stand up and be seen.

Unless of course, your an all-time Steeler great. Then character doesn’t matter.

[jeemie]

I disagree. He's earned more than being lied to and told he would be used as a situational pass rusher and then made inactive on game days. He was misled. For an organization that prides itself on doing right by it's players, they really did him wrong. How he reacted, though not right, was no surprise. It turns out, Harrison was correct. It's a shame it had to go down the way it did, but it seems they backed him into a corner with either straight up deception or complete moronic coaching.

We don't know what he was told- this is an assumption on your part.

The ONLY time we know he was told he'd be used as a situational pass rusher was 2015, when he signed...and then he ended up becoming the starter.

[Legacy User]

This is flat out incorrect.

Tomlin made his decision, right or wrong, better or worse. He’s the coach. It’s his team and the players on his team are to be used how he sees fit. They wanted to move the D and OLBs in a different direction, away from Harrison. Their prerogative, right or wrong. Did Harrison’s behavior quicken that transition? We can only speculate.

Personally, I’ve lost faith in Tomlin 100%. He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore. I disagree with him on almost every front and I think he fucked up the JH situation colossally.

That being said, it has nothing to do with JHs behavior. Abso-fucking-lutely nothing. JH is 100% percent wrong. 100%. No ifs, ands, or buts. He’s wrong. Just like Tomlin is.

Those of you that want to justify his behavior because he was treated poorly. Man the fuck up. Life isn’t fair. We don’t get our way all the time. Moral character and the quality of a man is revealed in these times. And JH revealed who he is. And it isn’t much.

So, stop with the “all time great” and “Steeler legend” bullshit. It’s irrelevant. He’s no better and deserves nothing more than any of the other 52 guys on the roster.

I disagree. He's earned more than being lied to and told he would be used as a situational pass rusher and then made inactive on game days. He was misled. For an organization that prides itself on doing right by it's players, they really did him wrong. How he reacted, though not right, was no surprise. It turns out, Harrison was correct. It's a shame it had to go down the way it did, but it seems they backed him into a corner with either straight up deception or complete moronic coaching.

I’m literally dumbfounded that people can justify JH behavior. Whatever. That speaks directly to character. And character doesn’t have the benefit of revealing itself when when circumstances are right. Character doesn’t get a pass because the individual was “backed into a corner”. That’s precisely when character better stand up and be seen.

Unless of course, your an all-time Steeler great. Then character doesn’t matter.

in the Tomlin world and culture, character and putting the team first are secondary to the me me me attitude. All this BS leads back to Tomlins loosely run locker room culture, i firmly believe that.

[randomsteelerfan]

I think the defenders of the Harrison debacle are dissolving like an Alka Seltzer

And here’s another bs point.

To everyone clamoring that JH could still play and should have been given more snaps. I call bs. To everyone bitching that they “knew”. Bullshit.

Nobody saw JH play this year. Nobody knew if he could or couldn’t play. You assumed. Everyone assumed. So stop the “mightier than thou” “self-righteous” told you so bs.

You all hoped he could. You all thought maybe he could. But nobody knew. Now, everyone on the JH side of the argument is acting like they won some lottery because “they knew”. Bullshit.

Nobody knew.

And that’s solely on Tomlin. And Porter. They should have known. And if they did know and still jettisoned James, then they can’t be trusted with the well-being of this organization any longer.

I don't understand this. What's the point of being right if you can't be an asshole about it? You're sucking all the fun out of the truth.

Touché.

[jeemie]

in the Tomlin world and culture, character and putting the team first are secondary to the me me me attitude. All this BS leads back to Tomlins loosely run locker room culture, i firmly believe that.

So now it's Mike Tomlin's fault that James Harrison acted like a dick?

[randomsteelerfan]

in the Tomlin world and culture, character and putting the team first are secondary to the me me me attitude. All this BS leads back to Tomlins loosely run locker room culture, i firmly believe that.

Unfortunately, it looks like you could be correct.

[Legacy User]

I’m literally dumbfounded that people can justify JH behavior. Whatever. That speaks directly to character. And character doesn’t have the benefit of revealing itself when when circumstances are right. Character doesn’t get a pass because the individual was “backed into a corner”. That’s precisely when character better stand up and be seen.

Unless of course, your an all-time Steeler great. Then character doesn’t matter.

Character?

We're talking about the same dude who broke through a door and slapped around the mother of his children.

Can there be any doubt that JH is an asshole of the first order?

[jeemie]

in the Tomlin world and culture, character and putting the team first are secondary to the me me me attitude. All this BS leads back to Tomlins loosely run locker room culture, i firmly believe that.

Unfortunately, it looks like you could be correct.

One can only hope that James Harrison succeeding to the degree he has in New England will finally cause Art Rooney II to take a stance one way or the other.

[stillthere]

i agree thats the biggest sin Swiss, but isnt it equally damning that JH clearly had something left and these dipshits failed to see that and use him correspondingly, no reason he couldnt help us and develop the younger guys as well. I think Tomlin fucked that situation up from any angle you choose to look at it, and yes JH was a fucking dick afterwards but they pretty much begged him to come out of retirement to play and contribute. Most players dont deserve that sort of guarantee but i think in this situation JH did

Nobody else has brought up the highlighted. He was chilling at home with his kids and Pittsburgh begged him to come back. Then the same team fucked with what was or was not said or understood.

[jeemie]

i agree thats the biggest sin Swiss, but isnt it equally damning that JH clearly had something left and these dipshits failed to see that and use him correspondingly, no reason he couldnt help us and develop the younger guys as well. I think Tomlin fucked that situation up from any angle you choose to look at it, and yes JH was a fucking dick afterwards but they pretty much begged him to come out of retirement to play and contribute. Most players dont deserve that sort of guarantee but i think in this situation JH did

Nobody else has brought up the highlighted. He was chilling at home with his kids and Pittsburgh begged him to come back. Then the same team fucked with what was or was not said or understood.

Once again...NO THEY DIDN'T.

That was TWO YEARS AGO that the "situational pass rusher" was promised to him...and he ended up being the STARTER.

Any promises that were or weren't made after that are strictly "he said he said".

Now stop with this!

[Legacy User]

my issue with the Harrison fiasco is he clearly coulda helped us win; look at our pathetic defense!! yet he was denied any chance to help ! that's just pathetic..
that said Harrison turned into a dick. he prob always been a dick.. but a productive dick we loved! now hes gone so hes just a dick!

[W&M_Steeler]

my issue with the Harrison fiasco is he clearly coulda helped us win; look at our pathetic defense!! yet he was denied any chance to help ! that's just pathetic..
that said Harrison turned into a dick. he prob always been a dick.. but a productive dick we loved! now hes gone so hes just a dick!

I'm pretty sure that Harrison is not a nice or personable guy. Lit pointed out to his infamous woman beating incident. His refusal to visit the White House after Super Bowl 43 is another example. I think Harrison's probably like a Greg Llyod, a borderline psycho not hired for his disposition. That attitude probably helped make Harrison the great player he was. But it's the coaching staff's job to manage personalities, and they should know how to handle Harrison. It was Tomlin & Co.'s job to manage the situation in such a way that it didn't simultaneously weaken the Steelers while strengthening the Patriots. Even if JH became a total cancer and unreasonable dickhole, I still put some of the blame on the Steelers for letting it get to that situation. If they weren't going to play Harrison, and if Harrison was becoming a malcontent, then they should have cut him at the bye.

[jeemie]

my issue with the Harrison fiasco is he clearly coulda helped us win; look at our pathetic defense!! yet he was denied any chance to help ! that's just pathetic..
that said Harrison turned into a dick. he prob always been a dick.. but a productive dick we loved! now hes gone so hes just a dick!

Yes- Tomlin and Porter fucked that one up.

I gave them some benefit of the doubt because they wanted to move the defense in a different direction, and James' skill set wasn't a fit for that.

But they ought to have known he could have helped situationally even if we didn't...and when it became clear his guys weren't all that.

And like random, I'm calling out the guys here saying they KNEW JH could contribute. Bullshit- the evidence was clearly mixed...he had a very good series against the CHiefs, but against the Ravens, he sucked donkey dick.

But the coaches ought to have known for sure.

My guess is Watt hit the rookie wall...he could have used some rest.

[Legacy User]

my issue with the Harrison fiasco is he clearly coulda helped us win; look at our pathetic defense!! yet he was denied any chance to help ! that's just pathetic..
that said Harrison turned into a dick. he prob always been a dick.. but a productive dick we loved! now hes gone so hes just a dick!

Yes- Tomlin and Porter fucked that one up.

I gave them some benefit of the doubt because they wanted to move the defense in a different direction, and James' skill set wasn't a fit for that.

But they ought to have known he could have helped situationally even if we didn't...and when it became clear his guys weren't all that.

And like random, I'm calling out the guys here saying they KNEW JH could contribute. Bullshit- the evidence was clearly mixed...he had a very good series against the CHiefs, but against the Ravens, he sucked donkey dick.

But the coaches ought to have known for sure.

My guess is Watt hit the rookie wall...he could have used some rest.

May not have KNOWN 100% but had an opinion and were proven to be correct, so ya "known" in this case is a valid description.

[Legacy User]

in the Tomlin world and culture, character and putting the team first are secondary to the me me me attitude. All this BS leads back to Tomlins loosely run locker room culture, i firmly believe that.

So now it's Mike Tomlin's fault that James Harrison acted like a dick?

Indirectly absoutely

[Legacy User]

i agree thats the biggest sin Swiss, but isnt it equally damning that JH clearly had something left and these dipshits failed to see that and use him correspondingly, no reason he couldnt help us and develop the younger guys as well. I think Tomlin fucked that situation up from any angle you choose to look at it, and yes JH was a fucking dick afterwards but they pretty much begged him to come out of retirement to play and contribute. Most players dont deserve that sort of guarantee but i think in this situation JH did

Nobody else has brought up the highlighted. He was chilling at home with his kids and Pittsburgh begged him to come back. Then the same team fucked with what was or was not said or understood.

Once again...NO THEY DIDN'T.

That was TWO YEARS AGO that the "situational pass rusher" was promised to him...and he ended up being the STARTER.

Any promises that were or weren't made after that are strictly "he said he said".

Now stop with this!

My sequence of events may be off, wasnt he debating signing with the Steelers or Titans because of Dick Lebeau who he loved and wanted to continue playing for, we dont know for sure but i think its fairly safe to assume they twisted his arm at least to some degree and made some promises regarding playing time, i dont think he says no to Lebeau and the titans to be a cheerleader and mentor only.

[jeemie]

in the Tomlin world and culture, character and putting the team first are secondary to the me me me attitude. All this BS leads back to Tomlins loosely run locker room culture, i firmly believe that.

So now it's Mike Tomlin's fault that James Harrison acted like a dick?

Indirectly absoutely

No...not in the slightest.

Mike Tomlin is guilty of having a loose locker room, but if a player is a dick, the player is 100% responsible for that...and no one else.

[jeemie]

Greek, the only documented time they made promises to him was when he initially signed in 2015.

And they fulfilled that when he became the starter.

Any alleged promises after that are he said he said.