The Mental Retardation of Pittsburgh Sports Front Offices

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Hacksaw Jim Duggan
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The Mental Retardation of Pittsburgh Sports Front Offices

Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:20 am

As this is a Steelers board, I won't address the ongoing issues with Art Rooney II, Leveon, AB, etc. It's probably on my top-5 list of most annoying things I've ever had to deal with in my life. My God, it's fucking stupid.

The point being, Art Rooney II isn't Dan. Mike Tomlin is a dumb fuck. Colbert hasn't drafted a premier player in a decade+. Fans keep feeding into it, shoveling the shit into their mouths because it's Pittsburgh, and if you're a yinzer, there's nothing to your life besides sports. The guy here with 100,000 posts is already priming his fingers to give me an angry response.

Simply put, can you trust any of these fucking idiots to be successful?

Anyway, we know the Steelers front office is mentally retarded now. Well, today was quite a doozy for the general manager of your favorite local hockey team, as GM Jim Rutherford doubled and tripled down on his signing of Jack Johnson in the offseason.

Today, he blamed the softball Pittsburgh media...and the fans...for not giving Jack Johnson a fair shake.

“Jack never got a fair shot from the first day he got here, and it started with the (first) media scrum,” Rutherford said Wednesday morning. “I really couldn’t believe the questions that a newly acquired player was asked through that media scrum, and that’s what started the ball rolling toward the fans.”

Jesus Fucking Christ.

The softball Pittsburgh media actually did a fairly generous job at the time of making excuses for Johnson. They acknowledged his shortcomings, but at least they would try to look at the bright side.

Here's an overly optimistic article from Jason Mackey in June.
Five reasons the Jack Johnson signing just may work.
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2018/06/30/Jack-Johnson-signing-Mackey-reasons-it-may-work-Penguins/stories/201806300071

Jason Bombulie said in an August Q&A that "A change of scenery should do him good."
https://archive.triblive.com/sports/penguins/penguins-predictions-how-well-will-jack-johnson-fit-in-with-his-new-team/


An article by Dejan Kovacevic says "Always Trust Rutherford, Crosby"
https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2018/06/27/penguins-johnson-trade/


So, Jim Rutherford, a man who traded a first round pick for Ryan Reaves, may have had a nice little narrative going now had Johnson shut up "the critics" and played well for 60+ games this year.

Image

Oh.

So, why is Rutherford so diligent in defending Johnson? Why is he unwilling to admit a mistake? A mistake, like Reaves, that was obvious to both fans and analysts alike?

https://archive.triblive.com/sports/penguins/columbus-coach-john-tortorella-rips-penguins-jack-johnson-jim-rutherford/

Oh.

When you're headstrong and a fucking dumbass, this is what happens.

The Steelers can't handle their players. The Penguins play their bad players and get rid of their good ones to prove points.

So, I didn't think I could see a front office absolutely embarrass human existence much more today. That was until I read what the Pirates owner said. Let me preface this.

I've been around this site for as long as it has been online. I remember when the mods actually posted informative football talk. I remember heated debates between logical minds. As that inevitably digressed into a whinefest devoid of football insight and commentary and ripe with yinzer yammerings, I retreated to the Pittsburgh Sports section to discuss the Penguins and laugh at the Pirates. Some fat lard "journalist" tried to convince everyone that Huntington was the messiah around 2010ish. Journolard was better than everyone else because he had the distinct pleasure of making coffee for the other journalists during games. After I was right about everything, he never showed his face in this section again. Ya'll know who it is.

We also have the retard steel, who declared the Pirates pretty much were God because they had the "best OFFSEASON in years" and labeled the Charlie Morton trade as the best in baseball history. My god. He doesn't show around here anymore because, again, I beat him into submission with an ounce of brain power.

The point being, please listen. Because it's people like steel and lardo journo that will still go out on a Saturday, spend the money on the beer, the food, and shit to get even fatter, and add a Styx or Huey Lewis & the News after-game concert inbetween jerk-off sessions. Stop. spending. money. to. see. the. Pirates.

Here's what ol' Bob Nutting said today. Winner of the most ridiculous front office comment of the week. Hard to do!

"You get an imbalanced payroll, that you have much more challenging team dynamic, much more challenging clubhouse dynamic, much more limitation in crafting an overall roster that can bring a championship," Nutting said Wednesday. "I'm not sure that that necessarily makes a team a team more competitive and more ready to win a championship."


Jesus. In layman's terms Bobby is saying here "I don't believe spending money on good players means you'll be more competitive because that means I would have to spend my own money."

This was from a ridiculous Q&A for the Trib on Wednesday.
https://triblive.com/sports/nine-innings-with-bob-nutting-a-qa-session-with-the-pirates-chairman/

Here are some of the highlights:
Is the payroll not controllable?

I think payroll scale and range, broadly, is not controllable. We’re going to have certain resources. That’s the reality of the marketplace. Do we have opportunities to move dollars? As I’ve said many times, I view the baseball operations payroll as a large bucket and major league payroll is a piece of that. We’ve been in the top five clubs in spending in player development resources for these young players. We’re outspending almost the entire industry in that (area). We’re continuing to reinvest in the support and development of the minor league system, whether it’s mental skills, conditioning, nutrition, sleep.


The San Diego Padres just signed a player to a $300 million contract. Don't worry the Pirates are investing in player's sleep. For all the huffing and puffing Nutting does about player development resources, do ya'll know how much that is? Hint: It's considerably less than $300 million. In fact, it's way closer to $300.


Here's another fun quote.

6. Attendance is down from 2.5 million in 2015 to less than 1.5 last season. Is that affecting payroll?

There is no question the attendance was down. There is no question that there were fewer tickets sold. That’s true. There is also no question we will never use it as an excuse.We will never use it as an issue.


I don't follow the Pirates much. I really, really tried back in the mid-2000s. It didn't take me too long to figure out that what is there will always be. That makes things quite boring and annoying. I remember not even watching half the divisional round from 2013. This was the Pirates in the playoffs for the first time in decades, and I barely cared. I knew the results, and I had no faith. I probably haven't watch a full game since then. It's important I say this because, despite not closely following the team, I remember laughing hysterically last year in disbelief a Pirates front office member stating that the fact fans weren't showing up hurt the Pirates payroll. It surprisingly took me seconds to find. I got hits on my first keyword search tonight. Yes, stupid people won't see these contradictions.

Here's a March 2018 quote from Frank Coonelly

“Double-digit percentage decreases in attendance has some impact on how we can build a roster in 2018 and moving forward,” Coonelly said. “My very poor job of selling Pittsburgh Pirates baseball over the last two years has a meaningful impact on how we can build a roster in 2018."
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pirates/2018/03/26/neal-huntington-frank-coonelly-pirates-season-tickets-lunches-dennis-reist-bob-nutting/stories/201803260020

Oh, and this was Coonelly in 2013, when the team was doing well.
2013: “The increased attendance this year allowed us to bring in Justin Morneau, Marlon Byrd, and John Buck at the trade deadline,” Coonelly said. “And the increased attendance and excitement for next year will certainly allow us to increase payroll.”
https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/10 ... d-payroll/

Whoops!


The Pirates payroll this year is supposed to be around $74 million. I had to dig for these, because to me, $74 million seems like it'd be a pretty light payroll in the year 2002, much less so in 2019. It was just a random year I picked, but here we are.

In the year 2002, 14 teams had a payroll higher than the Pirates projected total this year. This was SEVENTEEN years ago.

The Penguins, a team on the verge of leaving the city, now have a higher payroll than the Pirates.


Back to the quotes...
7. Every MLB team received a $50 million payout from the sale of BAMTech last year. How will that money be allocated?
I think the important thing for us is we really view that as a return of capital, so we need to think of it how it invests long-term to impact the club. We’re trying to maintain some flexibility. You talk about investing in capital or the club, and I really see those as very closely linked. We just got on a call this morning. We’re breaking ground now on a major expansion in the facility in the Dominican. I think where we really announce that with pictures is when we do the ribbon cutting. I’d much rather announce things we’ve done, as opposed to things we’re planning to do. But it is a good example of investing in the long-term future of the club.



The original facility they are expanding cost $5 million in 2009. https://archive.triblive.com/news/pirates-open-new-training-academy-in-dominican-republic/

So, even if that doubles, where are they going to spend the rest of the $40 million? Yay Nutting's wallet!!!!!

Also, when was the last time the Pirates developed a player worth a damn? Why are they in the Dominican? Just sign all the players other teams developed.

Here's a nice dig at the Pirates owners to end it.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/pirates-owner-bob-nutting-says-his-teams-payroll-isnt-controllable-following-dormant-offseason/

Keep buying those bobble heads!
Last edited by Almighty Slacker on Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:53 am, edited 13 times in total.



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Post by Orangesteel » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:32 am

Yowza. Good stuff there, Hacksaw.
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Post by bradshaw2ben » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:43 pm

I apologize for not posting more quality content... life intervenes.
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Post by Obviously » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:01 am

That a five-star post there, Hacksaw. I think that post is article worthy in itself.
#NoMoTomlin

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Post by SteelPro » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:37 pm

This baseball offseason is truly disgusting. The facts are that compensation for free agents is really repressed for all but the top two players. There are numerous quality players that have settled for very cheap deals. This market should be making true bargain hunters wet their panties. Yet the Pirates continue to spend virtually nothing. Asdrubal Cabrera popped 23 home runs last year and had a .774 OPS. He can play SS, 2B, and 3B. Sure, he is a little long in the tooth. But he is damn near a lock to outproduce the trash the Pirates are going to march out to SS this year. He signed a 1 year deal with the Rangers for just $3.5 million.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Louis Lipps Service » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:59 pm

So, Jim Rutherford, a man who traded a first round pick for Ryan Reaves


While it definitely wasn't a good trade by any means, framing it like we straight up traded a first rounder for Ryan Reeves is quite misleading.

The full trade was:

Penguins received
Ryan Reeves
No. 51 pick

Penguins gave
Oskar Sundqvist
No. 31 pick

So they moved down 20 picks and gave up the nearly-as-worthless Oskar Sundqvist.

Again, not a good trade, but not nearly as bad as you tried to frame it to add that extra sprinkling of hyperbole to your article.

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Post by Suwanee88 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:26 pm

1. Comparing the Pirates to the Penguins or the Steelers is ridiculous. There is no salary cap in MLB. End of comparison. You want to compare them to other teams in MLB, fair game. I doubt the Padres win a WS with Machado. Implement a money mechanics system similar to the NHL and the Bucs will have a better chance than this stupid, ridiculous system that is in place now.

2. If the NFL were set up like MLB, Art2 would be Bob Nutting instantaneously. The Steelers would be in a world of shit overnight. Unable and unwilling to compete. The cap is a pacifier for the pathetic pacifist Art2.

3. No matter what mistakes JR has made, the Pens are by far the best sports organization in Pittsburgh, by far.

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Post by Donnie Brasco » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:13 pm

I've said this multiple times: there are 2 names that make my blood boil with irrational rage

1. Mike Tomlin
2. Jack Johnson

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Post by Jobu » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:31 pm

Donnie Brasco wrote:I've said this multiple times: there are 2 names that make my blood boil with irrational rage

1. Mike Tomlin
2. Jack Johnson

Mike Tomlin and Bob Nutting for me.

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Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:36 am

Suwanee88 wrote:1. Comparing the Pirates to the Penguins or the Steelers is ridiculous. There is no salary cap in MLB. End of comparison. You want to compare them to other teams in MLB, fair game. I doubt the Padres win a WS with Machado. Implement a money mechanics system similar to the NHL and the Bucs will have a better chance than this stupid, ridiculous system that is in place now.


No doubt, but it doesn't change the fact that the system exists and the Pirates owner doesn't feel the need to compete monetarily when he damn well could do a better job of that, especially considering the massive amount of free agents that were available at discounted rates this offseason as Pro pointed out. I don't think anyone was comparing spending between the three different sports to any high degree in this thread. If anything, everything was kept within the contexts of respective sports.

Wasn't really the point of the thread.

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Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:39 am

Louis Lipps Service wrote:
So, Jim Rutherford, a man who traded a first round pick for Ryan Reaves


While it definitely wasn't a good trade by any means, framing it like we straight up traded a first rounder for Ryan Reeves is quite misleading.

The full trade was:

Penguins received
Ryan Reeves
No. 51 pick

Penguins gave
Oskar Sundqvist
No. 31 pick

So they moved down 20 picks and gave up the nearly-as-worthless Oskar Sundqvist.

Again, not a good trade, but not nearly as bad as you tried to frame it to add that extra sprinkling of hyperbole to your article.


Oskar Sundqvist is on pace for 20 goals and 40+ points this year and the Penguins entered the season with Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney at center that season. Yes, a first-round pick was traded for Ryan "Reeves".

Hacksaw Jim Duggan
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Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:40 am

SteelPro wrote:This baseball offseason is truly disgusting. The facts are that compensation for free agents is really repressed for all but the top two players. There are numerous quality players that have settled for very cheap deals. This market should be making true bargain hunters wet their panties. Yet the Pirates continue to spend virtually nothing. Asdrubal Cabrera popped 23 home runs last year and had a .774 OPS. He can play SS, 2B, and 3B. Sure, he is a little long in the tooth. But he is damn near a lock to outproduce the trash the Pirates are going to march out to SS this year. He signed a 1 year deal with the Rangers for just $3.5 million.


Absolutely disgusting but so accurate.

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Post by Pabst » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:51 pm

Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:Oskar Sundqvist is on pace for 20 goals and 40+ points this year and the Penguins entered the season with Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney at center that season. Yes, a first-round pick was traded for Ryan "Reeves".

Ummm.....no. Sundqvist has 11 goals and 12 assists in 55 games played. If he suits up for all of the Blues remaining games, then he's on pace for 16 goals and 16 assists (32 points). And that's a lofty assumption, considering he hasn't scored in 13 straight.

Since you mentioned McKegg and Rowney - Both of them outperformed Sundqvist last season. Oskar had a whopping 1 goal and 4 assists in 42 games played, and his Corsi numbers are almost identical to Rowney and McKegg as well.

Oh, and Sundqvist sucks on faceoffs.



Side note - the Blues are a one-line team with a decent defense and a red-hot goalie. They aren't going to do any damage come playoff time.

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Post by Louis Lipps Service » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:07 pm

Pabst wrote:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:Oskar Sundqvist is on pace for 20 goals and 40+ points this year and the Penguins entered the season with Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney at center that season. Yes, a first-round pick was traded for Ryan "Reeves".

Ummm.....no. Sundqvist has 11 goals and 12 assists in 55 games played. If he suits up for all of the Blues remaining games, then he's on pace for 16 goals and 16 assists (32 points). And that's a lofty assumption, considering he hasn't scored in 13 straight.

Since you mentioned McKegg and Rowney - Both of them outperformed Sundqvist last season. Oskar had a whopping 1 goal and 4 assists in 42 games played, and his Corsi numbers are almost identical to Rowney and McKegg as well.

Oh, and Sundqvist sucks on faceoffs.



Seriously. Dude LOVES embellishing shit.

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Post by Donnie Brasco » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:13 pm

Pabst wrote:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:Oskar Sundqvist is on pace for 20 goals and 40+ points this year and the Penguins entered the season with Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney at center that season. Yes, a first-round pick was traded for Ryan "Reeves".

Ummm.....no. Sundqvist has 11 goals and 12 assists in 55 games played. If he suits up for all of the Blues remaining games, then he's on pace for 16 goals and 16 assists (32 points). And that's a lofty assumption, considering he hasn't scored in 13 straight.

Since you mentioned McKegg and Rowney - Both of them outperformed Sundqvist last season. Oskar had a whopping 1 goal and 4 assists in 42 games played, and his Corsi numbers are almost identical to Rowney and McKegg as well.

Oh, and Sundqvist sucks on faceoffs.



Side note - the Blues are a one-line team with a decent defense and a red-hot goalie. They aren't going to do any damage come playoff time.


Oscar also was shooting at an unsustainable 27% or something like that during his little run a month back. Like that wasn't going to normalize...

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Post by Ice » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:39 pm

Hard not to think about what could have been with Sprong and Sundqvist on a line anchored by the veteran steadiness of Eric Tangradi.
Nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile...

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Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:48 am

Pabst wrote:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:Oskar Sundqvist is on pace for 20 goals and 40+ points this year and the Penguins entered the season with Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney at center that season. Yes, a first-round pick was traded for Ryan "Reeves".

Ummm.....no. Sundqvist has 11 goals and 12 assists in 55 games played. If he suits up for all of the Blues remaining games, then he's on pace for 16 goals and 16 assists (32 points). And that's a lofty assumption, considering he hasn't scored in 13 straight.

Since you mentioned McKegg and Rowney - Both of them outperformed Sundqvist last season. Oskar had a whopping 1 goal and 4 assists in 42 games played, and his Corsi numbers are almost identical to Rowney and McKegg as well.

Oh, and Sundqvist sucks on faceoffs.



Side note - the Blues are a one-line team with a decent defense and a red-hot goalie. They aren't going to do any damage come playoff time.

Still triggered by your boyfriend Casey only getting 1.25? Haha!

I checked about a week and a half ago and Sundqvist was on a 40-point pace. So, that's fair that I didn't update my stats for Sundqvist. Still, 32 points seems pretty good for a 4th liner who excels on the PK, is 24 years old, plays 13+ minutes a night, and gets 62.5% d-zone starts (of course his Corsi is negative, dumbass). By the way, he's played a lot of time at winger. He also got bumped to the third line and got first team power play minutes for successful play this season. Again, not saying he will even last in the NHL, but this year has been better than what Reaves did for the Penguins last year, and Sundqvist was a "throw-in" in that deal.

There's something called "potential" you might not understand. Well, you were ready to knob slob Casey DeSmith, so I guess that makes sense. The peak potential of Greg McKegg is an injury call-up for the NHL. Ryan Reaves is a functional meat shield that works a lot better in the West than the East. He's doing pretty well on a Vegas team that complements his strengths. Carter Rowney is a 12th/13th forward NHLer for a bad team that got a ridiculously bad contract from a bad team. Sundqvist could be a decent bottom-6 player for the better part of a decade, certainly someone the Penguins could have slotted in through his RFA years on the cheap.

Honestly wouldn't mind a player like Sundqvist on the team over a guy like Dominik Simon, who happens to have the same number of points this season as Sundqvist, despite not having the benefit of playing with Sidney Crosby. He's a better penalty killer and a way more consistent presence in the offensive and defensive zones, although I'd say Simon is probably more gifted in the neutral zone. Sundqvist would be a less physical more offensively minded version of Garrett Wilson. Again, that depends on if you like Garrett Wilson scoring a goal every 60 games on the team. You probably do to go against the big meanie that was right! :(

Did you like Reaves getting 8 points, playing 9 minutes a night, and being -9? Curious, how did that Ryan Reaves trade turn out? Did you like the team's center depth going into last season? The Penguins rostered about 6 legit NHL players that could play center this season to enter the season, not counting Blueger. It's almost as if the team realized they made a mistake last year.

Listen to this, now stay with me, the Penguins could have kept the player that can play at a position they lacked depth at last season, not made a trade for a hitter that was awful for them and didn't fit what they did (follow me here, this is tough), and not dropped 20 positions (2/3 of an entire round) in the draft to acquire said player.

By the way, here's what the Blues did with the Pens 1st round pick.

https://bleedinblue.com/2019/01/06/blues-kostin-sets-world-fire-juniors/

By the way, it wasn't really a big surprise pick either. Kostin was the #1 European skater in the draft by Central Scouting.

Whoops.

With the Blues pick, the Penguins reached on some bust defensemen who barely sees the ice because he's injured all the time. Great job!

Sometimes, just maybe, dropping 20 spots makes a world of difference.

Oh, did I happen to mention the Penguins had to pay an additional 4th round pick to Vegas to take Reaves because they wouldn't have been able to fit his salary under the cap with Brassard on the team? If Sundqvist was still on the team, giving the same offensive output more or less of Reaves last season, his 600k salary would have much such a trade for cap space unnecessary. It's almost as if Sundqvist saw his first extended time in the NHL last year, struggled offensively, and then somehow...improved? this season with more experience. Crazy!

Keep chasin' the dream.
Last edited by Almighty Slacker on Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:13 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:49 am

Louis Lipps Service wrote:
Pabst wrote:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:Oskar Sundqvist is on pace for 20 goals and 40+ points this year and the Penguins entered the season with Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney at center that season. Yes, a first-round pick was traded for Ryan "Reeves".

Ummm.....no. Sundqvist has 11 goals and 12 assists in 55 games played. If he suits up for all of the Blues remaining games, then he's on pace for 16 goals and 16 assists (32 points). And that's a lofty assumption, considering he hasn't scored in 13 straight.

Since you mentioned McKegg and Rowney - Both of them outperformed Sundqvist last season. Oskar had a whopping 1 goal and 4 assists in 42 games played, and his Corsi numbers are almost identical to Rowney and McKegg as well.

Oh, and Sundqvist sucks on faceoffs.



Seriously. Dude LOVES embellishing shit.


Who are you?

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Post by Pabst » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:12 pm

Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:I checked about a week and a half ago and Sundqvist was on a 40-point pace. So, that's fair that I didn't update my stats for Sundqvist. Still, 32 points seems pretty good for a 4th liner who excels on the PK, is 24 years old, plays 13+ minutes a night, and gets 62.5% d-zone starts (of course his Corsi is negative, dumbass). By the way, he's played a lot of time at winger. He also got bumped to the third line and got first team power play minutes for successful play this season. Again, not saying he will even last in the NHL, but this year has been better than what Reaves did for the Penguins last year, and Sundqvist was a "throw-in" in that deal.

No, the math still doesn't work - he scored his 11th goal on February 2nd (last of a 3 game streak). At that point he would have been on pace for 19. So no, at no point was he on pace for 20. You're embellishing this. Take the L.

Also, I said his corsi was comparable to McKegg and Rowney, dumbass. If you're going to name call, as least address my actual point. And he's still among the worst in the NHL on the faceoff dot.

Did you like Reaves getting 8 points, playing 9 minutes a night, and being -9? Curious, how did that Ryan Reaves trade turn out? Did you like the team's center depth going into last season? The Penguins rostered about 6 legit NHL players that could play center this season to enter the season, not counting Blueger. It's almost as if the team realized they made a mistake last year.

No, and I would have really disliked Sundqvist getting 5 points playing over 10 minutes a night and being a -5. Why don't you start comparing stats within the season the actual trade was made? Again, his numbers last seasons were right on par with McKegg and Rowney. Sundqvist would have been gone mid-year (or after the season) anyway. He wasn't any good and he didn't fit the Pens system.

Literally no one here is defending Reeves. You don't need to exaggerate the terms to make that point.

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Post by jeemie » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:26 pm

I suppose I’m the one with “100,000 posts”.

Why did you think I’d type an angry response to you?

I admitted I was wrong about Reaves, and it sure does look like Rutherford’s decision-making is tacking in the wrong direction.

There was little in your post with which I disagreed.
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Post by jeemie » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:33 pm

Suwanee88 wrote:1. Comparing the Pirates to the Penguins or the Steelers is ridiculous. There is no salary cap in MLB. End of comparison. You want to compare them to other teams in MLB, fair game. I doubt the Padres win a WS with Machado. Implement a money mechanics system similar to the NHL and the Bucs will have a better chance than this stupid, ridiculous system that is in place now.

2. If the NFL were set up like MLB, Art2 would be Bob Nutting instantaneously. The Steelers would be in a world of shit overnight. Unable and unwilling to compete. The cap is a pacifier for the pathetic pacifist Art2.

3. No matter what mistakes JR has made, the Pens are by far the best sports organization in Pittsburgh, by far.


I guarantee you the Pirates would still not compete if there was a salary cap in baseball.

As Pro pointed out, there kind of is one now...with FA depressed for all but a couple top-tier players and plenty of opportunties to sign quality players to bargain deals...and the Pirates did nothing.

And for all their vaunted player development investment sonce NH took over as GM, the homegrown talent in the Pirates’ best years came from the Littlefield regime, not Neal’s.

Pens are still the best org in town, but that’s damning with faint praise. They are slipping and other teams in the NHL are passing them by.
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Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:33 pm

Jeemie wrote:I suppose I’m the one with “100,000 posts”.

Why did you think I’d type an angry response to you?

I admitted I was wrong about Reaves, and it sure does look like Rutherford’s decision-making is tacking in the wrong direction.

There was little in your post with which I disagreed.

Bro, I didn't even have you in mind. You played yourself.

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Post by Hacksaw Jim Duggan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:54 pm

Pabst wrote:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:I checked about a week and a half ago and Sundqvist was on a 40-point pace. So, that's fair that I didn't update my stats for Sundqvist. Still, 32 points seems pretty good for a 4th liner who excels on the PK, is 24 years old, plays 13+ minutes a night, and gets 62.5% d-zone starts (of course his Corsi is negative, dumbass). By the way, he's played a lot of time at winger. He also got bumped to the third line and got first team power play minutes for successful play this season. Again, not saying he will even last in the NHL, but this year has been better than what Reaves did for the Penguins last year, and Sundqvist was a "throw-in" in that deal.

No, the math still doesn't work - he scored his 11th goal on February 2nd (last of a 3 game streak). At that point he would have been on pace for 19. So no, at no point was he on pace for 20. You're embellishing this. Take the L.

Also, I said his corsi was comparable to McKegg and Rowney, dumbass. If you're going to name call, as least address my actual point. And he's still among the worst in the NHL on the faceoff dot.

Did you like Reaves getting 8 points, playing 9 minutes a night, and being -9? Curious, how did that Ryan Reaves trade turn out? Did you like the team's center depth going into last season? The Penguins rostered about 6 legit NHL players that could play center this season to enter the season, not counting Blueger. It's almost as if the team realized they made a mistake last year.

No, and I would have really disliked Sundqvist getting 5 points playing over 10 minutes a night and being a -5. Why don't you start comparing stats within the season the actual trade was made? Again, his numbers last seasons were right on par with McKegg and Rowney. Sundqvist would have been gone mid-year (or after the season) anyway. He wasn't any good and he didn't fit the Pens system.

Literally no one here is defending Reeves. You don't need to exaggerate the terms to make that point.


You know how I know you're triggered, you're squabbling over the difference between 19 and 20! Do you not know what a pace is?

Here's where I drop a big dumbass hammer on you.

In Sundqvist's 41st game of the season, he scored his 10th goal of the season versus Anaheim. Let's see, prorated for a full 82-game season, that would be. Hmmm. What's 10 x 2? Sundqvist missed the first eight games of the year after the Tom Wilson preseason hit.

You know, kinda how Crosby was on a 132-point pace before David Steckel happened in 2010-11? Would you believe it if I told you he didn't hit 132 points?

Sure, he hasn't scored in 13 games since his streak, but he also has 6 points in those games. Of qualified NHL players, his 0.42 PPG this season would be in the top-10 in PPG for 21 NHL teams.

Wouldn't certainly call that a "worthless" player like some no name jabroni said in this thread.

Also, it's no reason for you to act like a raging c*nt.


Haha! Unhinged!

Seriously, I'm sorry Casey didn't get his 4 million dollar contract to simultaneously usurp 17 Vezina-winning goaltenders. He can only be in so many places!

You do realize that saying the players involved in the discussion performed equally in 2017-18 only furthers my point? Rowney, Sundqvist, and McKegg all could have performed in the same roles and produced similar numbers last season. For the most part, they did. Still not getting the purpose of potential, right? I made about three paragraphs on it. Had to edit it a few times to realllyyyy drive the point home. I guess it didn't matter. Sundqvist has more potential as a player than Rowney and McKegg. He's showing some of that potential by improving as a player and outperforming both, McKegg especially, by wide margin this season. Usually, players with some level of potential improve from one year to the next. You're seeing a big jump from ZAR this season.

On another note, please, explain to me what the Penguins "system" is and how Sundqvist wouldn't fit into it. Give me some player alignments. In-zone defensive schemes. I'll wait for you to try to find it online.

The entire grievance with the "Reeves" trade is twofold: (a) asset management and (b) schematic fit

Sundqvist was an asset of a certain level because he was a cheap contract, could penalty kill, could play the center position (more to it than just faceoffs, surprise!), had been playing in the organization for years, and was responsible on all three zones.

The 31st overall pick in the draft was an asset that exceeded the 51st overall pick, especially considering some of the players still on the board.

Reaves was not worth the value of the assets used to get him. As showcased throughout the season, he did not perform well on the team. Also, the intention of his signing, "protection," was a nonsensical and useless as acquiring a guy because he's good in the locker room. Anyone with a brain knew Reaves wouldn't do much here, making his value meaningless. The fact that the team had to trade his salary for a 4th round pick in fact makes him have negative value.

So, we'll say, on a scale of 1-25, the 31st pick has 12 value, and Sundqvist has 7 value. 19! Shit! Better make Sundqvist worth 8 so it can be 20!

Reaves has -1 value, the 51st pick has 10 value. 9

20 > 9

I did this number exercise merely to mock you, as this scale is all over the place, but the point is that Rutherford has been the smaller number in most everything he has done the last two seasons.

I will continue to show you the light.

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Post by Pabst » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:50 pm

Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:You know how I know you're triggered, you're squabbling over the difference between 19 and 20! Do you not know what a pace is?

Here's where I drop a big dumbass hammer on you.

In Sundqvist's 41st game of the season, he scored his 10th goal of the season versus Anaheim. Let's see, prorated for a full 82-game season, that would be. Hmmm. What's 10 x 2? Sundqvist missed the first eight games of the year after the Tom Wilson preseason hit.

You know, kinda how Crosby was on a 132-point pace before David Steckel happened in 2010-11? Would you believe it if I told you he didn't hit 132 points?

Sure, he hasn't scored in 13 games since his streak, but he also has 6 points in those games. Of qualified NHL players, his 0.42 PPG this season would be in the top-10 in PPG for 21 NHL teams.

You realize that was Stl's 49th game of the season, right? They don't play make up games. And btw, he had only 6 assists at that point, so you're still embellishing on the 40 points. Again...take the L


Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:You do realize that saying the players involved in the discussion performed equally in 2017-18 only furthers my point? Rowney, Sundqvist, and McKegg all could have performed in the same roles and produced similar numbers last season. For the most part, they did. Still not getting the purpose of potential, right? I made about three paragraphs on it. Had to edit it a few times to realllyyyy drive the point home. I guess it didn't matter. Sundqvist has more potential as a player than Rowney and McKegg. He's showing some of that potential by improving as a player and outperforming both, McKegg especially, by wide margin this season. Usually, players with some level of potential improve from one year to the next. You're seeing a big jump from ZAR this season.

On another note, please, explain to me what the Penguins "system" is and how Sundqvist wouldn't fit into it. Give me some player alignments. In-zone defensive schemes. I'll wait for you to try to find it online.
How much time have you spent on here bitching about a big/slow forward that didn't fit with the Pens? Now you want to say Sundqvist would work? Holy shit....
And yes, it does counter your point that he was no better than Rowney or McKegg, because the Pens would have either traded him or sent him back to WBS anyway. They weren't starting the 2018 season with Oskar Sundqvist at C.

Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:Haha! Unhinged!

Seriously, I'm sorry Casey didn't get his 4 million dollar contract to simultaneously usurp 17 Vezina-winning goaltenders. He can only be in so many places!

I never once said this. Thanks for making shit up. BTW, how has that "obvious mistake" Bryan Rust been doing?

I did this number exercise merely to mock you, as this scale is all over the place,

Noted.


Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:By the way, here's what the Blues did with the Pens 1st round pick.

https://bleedinblue.com/2019/01/06/blue ... e-juniors/

By the way, it wasn't really a big surprise pick either. Kostin was the #1 European skater in the draft by Central Scouting.

Oh hey! that's the guy who threw his helmet in the medal ceremony. Oh, and by the way, he isn't doing well in the AHL. 17 points and a -22 in 47 games played this season. Yikes. But tell him congrats on the multi-point outing against Denmark.

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Post by Pabst » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:12 pm

All this to say - there's not a soul here that would say the Reaves trade was a good thing. But JFC, you can say that without pretending that Oskar Sundqvist would have had any meaningful impact here or that dropping 20 spots in the draft will have a noticeable impact in a few years.

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Post by Suwanee88 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:25 am

Hacksaw Jim Duggan wrote:
Suwanee88 wrote:1. Comparing the Pirates to the Penguins or the Steelers is ridiculous. There is no salary cap in MLB. End of comparison. You want to compare them to other teams in MLB, fair game. I doubt the Padres win a WS with Machado. Implement a money mechanics system similar to the NHL and the Bucs will have a better chance than this stupid, ridiculous system that is in place now.


No doubt, but it doesn't change the fact that the system exists and the Pirates owner doesn't feel the need to compete monetarily when he damn well could do a better job of that, especially considering the massive amount of free agents that were available at discounted rates this offseason as Pro pointed out. I don't think anyone was comparing spending between the three different sports to any high degree in this thread. If anything, everything was kept within the contexts of respective sports.

Wasn't really the point of the thread.

It looked like a comparison to me. Agree the Pirates can do better but even if they try harder, they are pedaling up hill which isn’t right for the fans, hence my hatred for the league.

On the other hand, The Steelers should truly be criticized harder than the Pirates. With the even playing field to protect them from their competitors- they’ve done jack shit for years. They’ve been closer than any team in the NFL and have done jack shit. Much more outrage should be directed there vs the. Pirates who have no chance in hell even if they signed a Manny Machado-

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Post by Ice » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:41 am

As an aside to the "terrific value" available in baseball free agency, Bryce Harper just signed a 13 year, 330 million dollar guaranteed, no move clause contract with the Phillies. If a kid is in kindergarten now, they will be a high school graduate by the time that term is over. The system in baseball is ridiculous. They all said no owner was going to sign another stupid ass contract like that, citing that it has NEVER worked out, but there you are, somebody did.
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Post by Pabst » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:54 am

Ice wrote:As an aside to the "terrific value" available in baseball free agency, Bryce Harper just signed a 13 year, 330 million dollar guaranteed, no move clause contract with the Phillies. If a kid is in kindergarten now, they will be a high school graduate by the time that term is over. The system in baseball is ridiculous. They all said no owner was going to sign another stupid ass contract like that, citing that it has NEVER worked out, but there you are, somebody did.

Amazingly, when this is all said and done, Bobby Bonilla will still be getting paid by the Mets

https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/bryce-harpers-contract-wont-outlast-mets-bobby-bonilla-payments/

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Post by Ice » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:44 am

That iteration of The Killer B's didn't work out well for Pittsburgh, either. The Bonilla contract always cracks me up.
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Post by jeemie » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:57 am

Ice wrote:That iteration of The Killer B's didn't work out well for Pittsburgh, either. The Bonilla contract always cracks me up.


It's actually a good deal for the Mets.
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