Wall or No wall?

[COR-TEN]

Non Citizen Immigrant or Illegal alien should have zero rights to my tax dollars..

Ok. I hear ya.

What if we don't call it "rights?"

What if we call it charity. A moral obligation. We have been gifted to be where we are as a nation, and have abused others to get here.

How about giving back?

As far as the rest of your post, we are in agreement without the assumptions that everybody that comes here is a lazy fuck looking for a handout. Work for your shit. Don't expect me to give you my shit because you're lazy. . . unless I'm drunk or stoned. But in a country that's this size, some concessions need to be made. Some are genuinely needy, and the few are gaming the system.

Does that work?

Charity is fine.. But when you make Charity Mandatory on my weekly paycheck its no longer charity.. I am not trying to be cold hearted here.. Trust me I give A LOT to the less fortunate.. but that is my CHOICE.. No one is making me do that.. God knows that I have been in dire straights a time or two growing up.. I was thankful that my FAMILY helped me. I have never been on unemployment or food stamps or whatever... I have paid my own way and lived within my budget.. I don't expect everyone to do that however.. My tax dollars should not be a paycheck for people not wanting to work or came here illegally... Let the citizens decide who and what they will give charity.. Let the churches and soup kitchens feed the less fortunate... No need to drive a Escalade with 28inch rims while shopping for lobster and steak on food stamps... the entire system is in dire need of an enema. Sorry to say some people just don't want to work for themselves they want me to pay for food shelter etc.. I say some people are meant to die off..
I know I am a cold hearted prick.. got it..

Don't expect the majority of humanity to be as charitable as you. Most will steal the shirt off your back given the opportunity. Relying on humanity to do the right thing is delusional. They never have. Abuse is in human's nature. So should we just succumb to that or should we strive for bigger and better things? And I agree that the entire system is in need of an enema. But I don't agree that some people need to die off. Or at least a fabricated thinning of the herd (artificially deciding winners and losers). That's what separates us from incivility, inhumanity, and animals. Contrived Social darwinism doesn't have to be implemented. The ability to empathize with someone or something on the other side of the planet is what separates us from the wild. Needless suffering and destruction isn't something I condone. I know that sounds like a bleeding heart liberal, but shit is what it is.

Just sayin'

/shrug.

[955876]

Needless suffering and destruction isn't something I condone. I know that sounds like a bleeding heart liberal, but shit is what it is.

Here is a lil secret. Capitalist and/or those that generally identify as conservative don’t condone needless suffering or destruction either.

You don’t have a monopoly on empathy because you are liberal

[Louis Lipps Service]

Don't expect the majority of humanity to be as charitable as you. Most will steal the shirt off your back given the opportunity. Relying on humanity to do the right thing is delusional. They never have. Abuse is in human's nature. So should we just succumb to that or should we strive for bigger and better things? And I agree that the entire system is in need of an enema. But I don't agree that some people need to die off. Or at least a fabricated thinning of the herd (artificially deciding winners and losers). That's what separates us from incivility, inhumanity, and animals. Contrived Social darwinism doesn't have to be implemented. The ability to empathize with someone or something on the other side of the planet is what separates us from the wild. Needless suffering and destruction isn't something I condone. I know that sounds like a bleeding heart liberal, but shit is what it is.

Just sayin'

/shrug.

Sooo, you're going to say most people are shitbags, then say I need to involuntarily give money to save said people, who again, by your own words, "would steal the shirt off your back"?

You don't understand how people wouldn't have a problem with that?

Like 95, I also give a pretty generous heaping of my time and my money to groups I deem worthy. Is everyone going to do that? No, of course not. Most won't. But the money I give is going to go to places where I know it's going to be used in an appropriate manner. When money gets taken out of my paychecks and sent to the government, I have no idea who is getting it, or how whichever government agency is handling that money is using it. And given what I've seen out of government agencies, I can pretty much guarantee it's not being used well. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of that money is being used for needless government overhead and inefficiency. Meanwhile, the money I voluntarily donate is 100% put to get use. How do I know? Because the organizations I donate to are organizations with which I have very intimate knowledge and know I can trust, are based out of the communities I have ties to, and I have direct proof are making a difference.

If you wonder why many have a problem with things like welfare, it's that right there. It's the accountability. You're taking away my power to dictate how my money is used, and giving me absolutely no transparency in the process. If they'd at least add some transparency into it, tell me what family/people my money is helping out, exactly how much they got, or even better, give me a CHOICE as to who gets that money, how much they'd get, and how they're allowed to use it, I'd have a far less problem with it. I still wouldn't /like/ it because I'll never like someone telling me what I have to spend my money on, but I'd feel much better about it if I knew that money was going to my neighbor down the street to pay his heating bill in the winter.

Instead, I have no idea. Instead, it's probably going to one of those people who "would steal the shirt off your back" instead the family working 4 jobs to make ends meet.

We want to help people just as much as you do, but we have far less trust that the money that is being taken from is actually doing that. That's the difference. It's money disappearing from paychecks and that's it. That's terrible and something I'll never, ever, ever approve of.

[alancac98]

Non Citizen Immigrant or Illegal alien should have zero rights to my tax dollars..

Ok. I hear ya.

What if we don't call it "rights?"

What if we call it charity. A moral obligation. We have been gifted to be where we are as a nation, and have abused others to get here.

How about giving back?

As far as the rest of your post, we are in agreement without the assumptions that everybody that comes here is a lazy fuck looking for a handout. Work for your shit. Don't expect me to give you my shit because you're lazy. . . unless I'm drunk or stoned. But in a country that's this size, some concessions need to be made. Some are genuinely needy, and the few are gaming the system.

Does that work?

What? Are you telling me that America hasn't given enough? Fuck that bullshit! How many men, American men, died in WW1 and WW2 fighting against the Germans. Our debts to the world were paid in blood! Then, we financially helped all those countries, including Germany, rebuild. We don't have a moral obligation to just open the door and say, come on in! How many of these people are you willing to house? Yeah, I thought so. Lit talks about priorities. Seems like I have spoken about this several times as well, but I'll say it one more time. How about we prioritize the American people, past, current, and future! We spend billion upon billion around this world helping every fucking country we can, when we can. How many millions did we send in aide for the Tsunamis? We are a very giving country, unless it is to it's own people. Do you have any idea when the last time, the elderly got a SSI benefits increase? I thought I heard it was when Bush was in office. Now, I don't know whether it is true or not, but I believe it came up for a vote to give SSI participants a raise, but I heard the Dems shot it down. Again, I have no idea if it's true. It could have been a part of another bill that had other things in it that the Dems didn't like (which it's not hard to realize as they like nothing). Getting back to Lit's priorities: this country wants to give people $15 dollars an hour for working a cash register, yet our elderly live in poverty. Not only that, but we turn our backs on our veterans who laid it all on the line for this country. Fuck the illegals - how about making Americans a fucking priority one damn time. It's about time we take care of our elderly (you know, the ones who actually built this country) and our veterans (the ones who were willing to die for us) first and foremost. So yeah, even spending one fucking dime on people who deserve nothing from us, kinda - no, absolutely pisses people off (me!!!).So balk all you want about how 100 million is just a drop in the bucket when that 100 million could really help Americans who could use it! Where's my fucking MAGA hat! (I don't have one, but just might get one!)

[Legacy User]

Now, I don't know whether it is true or not, but I believe it came up for a vote to give SSI participants a raise, but I heard the Dems shot it down. Again, I have no idea if it's true.

Then why the fuck would you say it? It is an utterly worthless statement.

Getting back to Lit's priorities: this country wants to give people $15 dollars an hour for working a cash register, yet our elderly live in poverty.

Maybe the future elderly generations won't have to live in poverty because they made a living wage when they were younger.

It's about time we take care of our elderly (you know, the ones who actually built this country)

The ones who came to Ellis Island as immigrants seeking opportunity?

Where's my fucking MAGA hat! (I don't have one, but just might get one!)

Fuck you.

[Legacy User]

The hatred for immigrants but condonation of our president being an agent of Russia is utterly mind boggling to me.

If you support Trump at this point, you support treason.

And you're an asshole.

And you're dumb as a fucking box of rocks.

[Donnie Brasco]

The hatred for immigrants but condonation of our president being an agent of Russia is utterly mind boggling to me.

If you support Trump at this point, you support treason.

And you're an asshole.

And you're dumb as a fucking box of rocks.

Wow.. So much for being respectful in this post
People were actually debating the issues vs personal attacks...

[jebrick]

So we want to give more than the current $2.7 trillion that is spent on Americans currently by the federal government? That is just SS, Medicare and Mediaid. How is America not spending money on Americans?

Again, if you do not want the illegal immigrates coming to the US for work then force businesses to not hire them. You will find that prime movers in keeping this from being enforced are agriculture and hotel lobbies. You would also find out that the businesses that hire them know EXACTLY what they are doing. The illegals will work cheaper and thus maximize profits. Now the complaint is that the businesses can't find US citizens to do the job. Rephrasing that would be they can't find US citizens to work for that wage. So they need to raise their wages to get employees. Just capitalism in action. You can then have even more Americans working and more tax revenue.

This is a sore point for me. Congressman Kevin McCarthy is a major person stopping this from happening as he is from a agriculture district. I am sure he talks a big talk about being anti-immigration as he empowers the companies that hire illegal immigrates.

[Legacy User]

The hatred for immigrants but condonation of our president being an agent of Russia is utterly mind boggling to me.

If you support Trump at this point, you support treason.

And you're an asshole.

And you're dumb as a fucking box of rocks.

Wow.. So much for being respectful in this post
People were actually debating the issues vs personal attacks...

Sorry, Donnie. I’ve given up trying to have civil discourse with:

1) People who condone or deny that our president is a Russian agent, is compromised by Russia, and has engaged in an illegal conspiracy with Russia;
2) People who condone OR AGREE WITH tear gassing poverty stricken, shoeless, immigrants seeking asylum at the border;
3) People who condone OR AGREE WITH the hateful, bigoted rhetoric that is spewed by this White House on a daily basis;
4) People who think there is a legitimate national emergency requiring the diversion of federal funds to build the wall.

The list goes on and on. I can’t have any sort of debate with people who still support this president. And I’m done pulling punches. If you still support Trump, you are:

1) Unfathomably stupid;
2) A hateful bigot;
3) A terrible fucking asshole.

Pick 2. Some of you can pick 3.

He is incompetent. He is unfit for office. He is a traitor. He needs to go.

[955876]

Maybe the future elderly generations won't have to live in poverty because they made a living wage when they were younger.

When you artificially raise the cost of an input (in this case labor) several things will most certainly occur.

1) Some businesses will utilize less of that input. That means some people will lose a job or not be able to find one.

2) Businesses will raise prices to offset the increase in labor cost. This has a chain reaction effect. So while people are making more, everything they do and consume will also be costing more. So they ultimately are no better off.

3) Some businesses will do both, utilize less labor AND raise prices.

4) Invest in technology that reduces their need for unskilled labor. The CEO of McDonalds was being interviewed and stated they have the tech right now to run an entire restaurant with but 2-3 actual people. They could immediately boost profits by hitting their labor force in favor of more efficient and reliable technology. They don’t do it however due to the optics of laying off so many people. But if you force their hand it isn’t difficult to forecast what business will do to counter increasing labor cost.

You can’t simply wave a magic wand and pay people whatever amount you deem is needed to provide a “living wage”.

And think about that concept for a moment. Who exactly make up the majority of minimum wage jobs?

I’d say the largest % would be high school kids getting their first jobs along with kids just out of high school and in college or figuring out their direction in life.

It’s called a “minimum wage” for a reason. And that reason is most people earning it are the least experienced and skilled members of the workforce. Someone that salts fries and mood a restroom is doing labor that requires no skill. It is easily replaced.

There also needs to be incentive to NOT remain the person that salts the fries and fills up the ketchup bottles. That isn’t a career. You are not supposed to remain at that level. It’s an ENTRY level position that most escape as their experience and ability to take on more responsibility leads to higher levels of employment and pay.

Take a stroll around local businesses and take a mental note of who is actually earning minimum wage. It’s mostly kids. Kids that should have an eye on something bigger.

If you are in your 30s, 40s, or older and making minimum wage while complaining you can’t live and raise a family on that amount then it’s you that have made poor choices, not the system working against you.

Technology can and will eliminate a lot of jobs. So careful what you wish for when artificially raising labor cost.

[955876]

The hatred for immigrants but condonation of our president being an agent of Russia is utterly mind boggling to me.

If you support Trump at this point, you support treason.

And you're an asshole.

And you're dumb as a fucking box of rocks.

Someone’s TDS got triggered hard last night.

If you are correct that he is an agent of Russia (snicker) then the Mueller probe that’s been running for almost two years now will certainly uncover it and he will be appropriately charged. As he should be.

If however he isn’t shown to be an agent of Russia, I’m sure you’ll come back here to say you were wrong...

Lastly, I really doubt people in this thread “hate immigrants”. I certainly don’t.

What people are frustrated with is the illegal entry into the country and the demands to receive benefits. That and sanctuary policies that shield criminals and cartel members within the community.

American taxpayer can’t be the source of welfare for the worlds poor. We already send billions in aid paid for by the US taxpayer already.

“We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country”... Barack Obama.

If Trump said it someone would liken him to Hitler and say he just hates brown people.

[alancac98]

The hatred for immigrants but condonation of our president being an agent of Russia is utterly mind boggling to me.

If you support Trump at this point, you support treason.

And you're an asshole.

And you're dumb as a fucking box of rocks.

Wow.. So much for being respectful in this post
People were actually debating the issues vs personal attacks...

Sorry, Donnie. I’ve given up trying to have civil discourse with:

1) People who condone or deny that our president is a Russian agent, is compromised by Russia, and has engaged in an illegal conspiracy with Russia;
2) People who condone OR AGREE WITH tear gassing poverty stricken, shoeless, immigrants seeking asylum at the border;
3) People who condone OR AGREE WITH the hateful, bigoted rhetoric that is spewed by this White House on a daily basis;
4) People who think there is a legitimate national emergency requiring the diversion of federal funds to build the wall.

The list goes on and on. I can’t have any sort of debate with people who still support this president. And I’m done pulling punches. If you still support Trump, you are:

1) Unfathomably stupid;
2) A hateful bigot;
3) A terrible fucking asshole.

Pick 2. Some of you can pick 3.

He is incompetent. He is unfit for office. He is a traitor. He needs to go.

Yeah, but I bet you loved the hell of Obama, didn't you. Didn't Obama bypass Congress and give Iran 150 billion dollars (yeah, a country who hates us and capable of making nuclear weapons)? That's really intelligent isn't it?

You got proof that Trump is a Russian agent hell bent on destroying everything America? Nothing is ever made up in the media right?
You sit there all night watching CNN to get your daily fix of hate for a US President.

And if you don't like the discussion, fine, don't click and participate. If you do, feel free to get fired up, but don't personally attack anyone. To date, this thread has been rather calm. Step back off the ledge and take a breath. I know that I can get fired up in my posts, but it wasn't an attack on you (save that for the game day threads, lol). Hell, I've been a registered democrat for 30+ years, but they have me scratching my head right now. I find myself siding with the Repubs. on several issue right now. No, there are some thing I don't agree with and have issue with against the Republicans and this President, but I try to see a bigger picture, as I did with Obama, Bush, Clinton, and all the others I voted for or against.

[COR-TEN]

Maybe the future elderly generations won't have to live in poverty because they made a living wage when they were younger.

This country was built on cheap labor. You cannot remove it from its DNA. It will be rationalized/ justified and then many will use legislation and financial pressures to dictate behavior - inserting government into your life. Further, minimum wage has not matched the rise of the cost of living or inflation since 1975. Matching the rise would bring the minimum wage to $15/hr. But that's not acceptable because many believe you're not supposed to live on min wage.

Also -

[COR-TEN]

Didn't Obama bypass Congress and give Iran 150 billion dollars (yeah, a country who hates us and capable of making nuclear weapons)?

You are mistaken. That money was Iranian seized assets after the hostages were taken. The agreement with Iran was approved by congress, and returned the money. So therefore, Obama did NOT bypass congress. Further, it's the Iranian regime that hates the US for standing behind and financially and militarily supporting Israel. But this admin wants to give Saudi Arabia, one of the most totalitarian and ruthless regimes in the area, nuclear technology. After selling them weapons to bomb civilians in Yemen. I'd say that isn't too smart.

[Donnie Brasco]

Maybe the future elderly generations won't have to live in poverty because they made a living wage when they were younger.

This country was built on cheap labor. You cannot remove it from its DNA. It will be rationalized/ justified and then many will use legislation and financial pressures to dictate behavior - inserting government into your life. Further, minimum wage has not matched the rise of the cost of living or inflation since 1975. Matching the rise would bring the minimum wage to $15/hr. But that's not acceptable because many believe you're not supposed to live on min wage.

Also -

Define "Living Wage"
Because that number is going to be different for a person in CA vs a person in Kansas

[alancac98]

Didn't Obama bypass Congress and give Iran 150 billion dollars (yeah, a country who hates us and capable of making nuclear weapons)?

You are mistaken. That money was Iranian seized assets after the hostages were taken. The agreement with Iran was approved by congress, and returned the money. So therefore, Obama did NOT bypass congress. Further, it's the Iranian regime that hates the US for standing behind and financially and militarily supporting Israel. But this admin wants to give Saudi Arabia, one of the most totalitarian and ruthless regimes in the area, nuclear technology. After selling them weapons to bomb civilians in Yemen. I'd say that isn't too smart.

I'm sorry, you're right. I need to "fact" check myself instead of going off little tidbits of info I pick up from here or there, lol.

[Legacy User]

If however he isn’t shown to be an agent of Russia, I’m sure you’ll come back here to say you were wrong...

I think we're gonna find out next week! I'll be back either way.

I don't know why your mouth is so firmly affixed to Trump's dick. The evidence of conspiracy with Russia is overwhelming.

Do you just want your side to win and so you're going to go down with the ship?

Or are you just an idiot, racist, asshole like I referenced above?

[Legacy User]

If you are in your 30s, 40s, or older and making minimum wage while complaining you can’t live and raise a family on that amount then it’s you that have made poor choices, not the system working against you.

What about the large portion of this country that are, for whatever reason, incapable of working a job beyond minimum wage? There are people who just aren't very smart and working as a janitor is their best lot in life. Should these people work 40 hours and live in poverty? These are rhetorical questions and I am not concerned with hearing your answers.

[Legacy User]

Didn't Obama bypass Congress and give Iran 150 billion dollars (yeah, a country who hates us and capable of making nuclear weapons)?

You are mistaken. That money was Iranian seized assets after the hostages were taken. The agreement with Iran was approved by congress, and returned the money. So therefore, Obama did NOT bypass congress. Further, it's the Iranian regime that hates the US for standing behind and financially and militarily supporting Israel. But this admin wants to give Saudi Arabia, one of the most totalitarian and ruthless regimes in the area, nuclear technology. After selling them weapons to bomb civilians in Yemen. I'd say that isn't too smart.

I'm sorry, you're right. I need to "fact" check myself instead of going off little tidbits of info I pick up from here or there, lol.

For real.

[alancac98]

Here's a study done by the University of Washington concerning Seattle's $15 dollar/hour hike after 4 years of being in effect. Some good, some not so good - all depends on your outlook. That said, one has to remember that Seattle is a large city. Would love to see how the $15 minimum wage effect small rural communities. I haven't found anything on that yet.

https://fox59.com/2018/10/23/heres-what-happened-when-seattle-raised-the-minimum-wage-to-15/

and another where it appears the $15 minimum wage is costing jobs.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-wage-is-costing-jobs/

[alancac98]

If however he isn’t shown to be an agent of Russia, I’m sure you’ll come back here to say you were wrong...

I think we're gonna find out next week! I'll be back either way.

I don't know why your mouth is so firmly affixed to Trump's dick. The evidence of conspiracy with Russia is overwhelming.

Do you just want your side to win and so you're going to go down with the ship?

Or are you just an idiot, racist, asshole like I referenced above?

Can you please post your links outlining his undeniable guilt?

[955876]

If however he isn’t shown to be an agent of Russia, I’m sure you’ll come back here to say you were wrong...

I think we're gonna find out next week! I'll be back either way.

I don't know why your mouth is so firmly affixed to Trump's dick. The evidence of conspiracy with Russia is overwhelming.

Do you just want your side to win and so you're going to go down with the ship?

Or are you just an idiot, racist, asshole like I referenced above?

Trump has plenty of flaws. Being an “agent of Russia” at this point is nothing more than our intelligence community run amok after the person they thought would become their boss (and protected in the process) lost the election.

There is soooo much evidence (actual evidence mind you) that supports what I just stated.

I would like to see this “overwhelming” evidence of conspiracy. If it’s there Mueller should have an open and shut case. Impeachment proceedings should commence shortly.

So far however, they are two years in and have not shown anything that shows there was someone collusion with the Russians. And no, a meeting at Trump tower doesn’t equate to what you are claiming.

What has Trump offered the Russians? What are they giving in return? Connect those dots and get back to me.

Further, I don’t alter my opinion tonsuit my political preference the way you libs do. Kind of like how a woman accuses a Supreme Court nominee of something that allegedly happened 30+ years ago and she was to be believed no matter what.

A Democrat gets accused of sexual misconduct and all of a sudden it’s like , well he passed a lie detector so we believe him. Quite the double standard.

And if you actually follow along with anything I post along these topic lines I challenge you to find anything that would label me a racist. Grow up and form and original bought in your little head rather than falling back on the oh sooooo tired racist accusations.

My wife is Hispanic. Her family is Hispanic. Her grandparents immigrated here and worked the fields all up and down California.

Yet if I speak out against illegal immigration your little mind thinks “racist” and must “hate brown people”.

My kids would qualify as being “brown people” you douche. So no, I’m not racist.

Back to this treason stuff. Remember back when Hill was Secretary of State and required by law to maintain copies of all official email communications? You know, the 30,000+ she deleted then used bleach bit to wipe the server clean? She wasn’t hiding anything was she?

And your lemming ass would vote for her today.

I would not support someone committing treasonous activity regardless of party. If Trump was acting as an agent of Russia and there was proof, not oh there was a meeting at Trump tower nonsense then I’d want him prosecuted to the full extent.

Funny though when it is someone on your side committing crimes it is completely glossed over.

Remember when there was “no classified info sent or received” on private email? Then it came out that she used the private email exclusively? And then it came out that classified emails somehow ended up on her assistants husband’s computer. You know, the pedofile that is now in jail.

No worries though right? No concerns over what she was so desperate to hide. Property that actually belongs to you and I, not her.

No conspiracy there though. Nope, Trump is a Russian mole. Got it.

This was a fairly civil devate in here till you came along and accused anyone that doesn’t vote Dem of being a racist asshole that supports treason.

I actually feel sorry for you. Hopefully whatever is causing so much anquich in your life turns and you can release some of that pent up anger.

And if Mueller doesn’t show beyond doubt that Trump is a Russian agent I expect you’ll be a man and and eat some crow.

[Donnie Brasco]

Didn't Obama bypass Congress and give Iran 150 billion dollars (yeah, a country who hates us and capable of making nuclear weapons)?

You are mistaken. That money was Iranian seized assets after the hostages were taken. The agreement with Iran was approved by congress, and returned the money. So therefore, Obama did NOT bypass congress. Further, it's the Iranian regime that hates the US for standing behind and financially and militarily supporting Israel. But this admin wants to give Saudi Arabia, one of the most totalitarian and ruthless regimes in the area, nuclear technology. After selling them weapons to bomb civilians in Yemen. I'd say that isn't too smart.

Hold on...you said in a previous post that America should pay a "penance" to those countries who aren't as well off.
If the US dropped all aid to Israel, I'm pretty certain they'd be in a MAJOR heap of trouble financially and politically.

But that's the thing with giving ANY monies to any other country- there are going to be things about that country SOMEONE doesn't care for. Israel does a ton of bad stuff...they also provide a safe haven for those who were persecuted about 100 years ago.

I'm curious if you polled the US citizens they'd be in favor of removing all aid to other countries if that meant a more meaningful life for it's citizens. Maybe there'd be more of a taste for those "living wages" or basic income

But that is why the argument is coming full circle: the US doesn't manage it's money well so there's a major faction of the population who feels they have a vested interest in keeping what they have vs giving it away (or having the government decide how it gets distributed).

[Legacy User]

If however he isn’t shown to be an agent of Russia, I’m sure you’ll come back here to say you were wrong...

I think we're gonna find out next week! I'll be back either way.

I don't know why your mouth is so firmly affixed to Trump's dick. The evidence of conspiracy with Russia is overwhelming.

Do you just want your side to win and so you're going to go down with the ship?

Or are you just an idiot, racist, asshole like I referenced above?

Trump has plenty of flaws. Being an “agent of Russia” at this point is nothing more than our intelligence community run amok after the person they thought would become their boss (and protected in the process) lost the election.

There is soooo much evidence (actual evidence mind you) that supports what I just stated.

I would like to see this “overwhelming” evidence of conspiracy. If it’s there Mueller should have an open and shut case. Impeachment proceedings should commence shortly.

So far however, they are two years in and have not shown anything that shows there was someone collusion with the Russians. And no, a meeting at Trump tower doesn’t equate to what you are claiming.

What has Trump offered the Russians? What are they giving in return? Connect those dots and get back to me.

Further, I don’t alter my opinion tonsuit my political preference the way you libs do. Kind of like how a woman accuses a Supreme Court nominee of something that allegedly happened 30+ years ago and she was to be believed no matter what.

A Democrat gets accused of sexual misconduct and all of a sudden it’s like , well he passed a lie detector so we believe him. Quite the double standard.

And if you actually follow along with anything I post along these topic lines I challenge you to find anything that would label me a racist. Grow up and form and original bought in your little head rather than falling back on the oh sooooo tired racist accusations.

My wife is Hispanic. Her family is Hispanic. Her grandparents immigrated here and worked the fields all up and down California.

Yet if I speak out against illegal immigration your little mind thinks “racist” and must “hate brown people”.

My kids would qualify as being “brown people” you douche. So no, I’m not racist.

Back to this treason stuff. Remember back when Hill was Secretary of State and required by law to maintain copies of all official email communications? You know, the 30,000+ she deleted then used bleach bit to wipe the server clean? She wasn’t hiding anything was she?

And your lemming ass would vote for her today.

I would not support someone committing treasonous activity regardless of party. If Trump was acting as an agent of Russia and there was proof, not oh there was a meeting at Trump tower nonsense then I’d want him prosecuted to the full extent.

Funny though when it is someone on your side committing crimes it is completely glossed over.

Remember when there was “no classified info sent or received” on private email? Then it came out that she used the private email exclusively? And then it came out that classified emails somehow ended up on her assistants husband’s computer. You know, the pedofile that is now in jail.

No worries though right? No concerns over what she was so desperate to hide. Property that actually belongs to you and I, not her.

No conspiracy there though. Nope, Trump is a Russian mole. Got it.

This was a fairly civil devate in here till you came along and accused anyone that doesn’t vote Dem of being a racist asshole that supports treason.

I actually feel sorry for you. Hopefully whatever is causing so much anquich in your life turns and you can release some of that pent up anger.

And if Mueller doesn’t show beyond doubt that Trump is a Russian agent I expect you’ll be a man and and eat some crow.

Hahahahahahahah

[955876]

If you are in your 30s, 40s, or older and making minimum wage while complaining you can’t live and raise a family on that amount then it’s you that have made poor choices, not the system working against you.

What about the large portion of this country that are, for whatever reason, incapable of working a job beyond minimum wage? There are people who just aren't very smart and working as a janitor is their best lot in life. Should these people work 40 hours and live in poverty? These are rhetorical questions and I am not concerned with hearing your answers.

You aren’t concerned with hearing my answer because actual debate doesn’t work for you. If you find yourself in disagreement instead of having a civil debate you resort to childish name calling and baseless accusation.

Be honest, you love yourself some Maxine Waters.

[955876]

Hahahahahahahah

Don’t laugh, make a commitment. You are certain of these things. If they play out as you think you’ll most certainly be here gloating.

I’m just trying to see if you are man enough to come eat crow as well.

Your boy Mueller has had two years and an open checkbook of taxpayer dollars. Not to mention a DOJ that CLEARLY worked to avoid prosecuting Hillary and openly despised Trump.

So if charges are not brought against Trump there is no way you’d be able to claim the DOJ is protecting him.

So what do you say tough guy? Willing to come eat crow if he is not found to be an agent of Russia?

[SteelPro]

Maybe the future elderly generations won't have to live in poverty because they made a living wage when they were younger.

This country was built on cheap labor. You cannot remove it from its DNA. It will be rationalized/ justified and then many will use legislation and financial pressures to dictate behavior - inserting government into your life. Further, minimum wage has not matched the rise of the cost of living or inflation since 1975. Matching the rise would bring the minimum wage to $15/hr. But that's not acceptable because many believe you're not supposed to live on min wage.

I personally don’t feel that anyone is “supposed” to live on minimum wage. But I will say this. It would probably be better if min wage increases were automatic and pinned to some sort of inflation index. It would end much of the hassling over what amounts to setting it to an arbitrary level every so often. And from a business standpoint it would be better to have some certainty as to what the wage minimum will be going forward and not have it be volatile due to the whims of whatever political faction is in power.

[955876]

Just did some quick google search.

People currently working and earning the Federal minimum wage represents less than 4% of all workers.

Some stats I came across showed the number to be less. Some more. That’s the thing with stats.

What was consistent was that (as I’ve stated previously) a large % of people at that level of income are aged 25 and below. And a large % of that number is made up of people in the service industry such as waiters/waitress. So tips not factored.

While earni that small amount is an issue, the people at that income level can do things to better their earning potential. Again, you are not meant to remain at the minimum wage in life. It is a starting point for the no to low skilled. Shit, a McDonalds restaurant manager in a fairly busy location can make $100,000/year. So even the lowly fry salter can move up the pay ladder if they apply themselves.

One could argue a bigger issue is the small amount of money people that are unable to work receive. They are the ones truly stuck at poverty level as they likley don’t have many options to change their situation.

My wife had to stop working about 3 1/2 years ago after being diagnosed with a terminal illness. She was an independent contractor so 1099 rather than W2. I paid quarterly taxes on her income but failed to establish and pay into state disability. So when she had to stop working she was not eligible for state disability. That part was my fault.

Federal disability kicks in 5 months after diagnosis. If you break down her monthly amount and base it on a 40 hour work week her payment equates to $7.95/hour. So right about Federal minimum wage and quite a bit less than current California minimum wage of $11.00/hour.

We are very fortunate in that I earn enough this isn’t an issue in our life. However, I have often thought what if she was single? Or worse a single mother?

There are plenty of people out there that can’t work and unless they have other support would or are currently living in or at poverty levels without any real way of improving their situation.

Same could be applied to disabled vets or the elderly.

I think doing somethting more for those people that can’t truly help themselves is more important than the minimum wage issue.

Provided there is oversight as there are also many many out there trying to work the system rather than simply going to work.

[COR-TEN]

Didn't Obama bypass Congress and give Iran 150 billion dollars (yeah, a country who hates us and capable of making nuclear weapons)?

You are mistaken. That money was Iranian seized assets after the hostages were taken. The agreement with Iran was approved by congress, and returned the money. So therefore, Obama did NOT bypass congress. Further, it's the Iranian regime that hates the US for standing behind and financially and militarily supporting Israel. But this admin wants to give Saudi Arabia, one of the most totalitarian and ruthless regimes in the area, nuclear technology. After selling them weapons to bomb civilians in Yemen. I'd say that isn't too smart.

Hold on...you said in a previous post that America should pay a "penance" to those countries who aren't as well off.
If the US dropped all aid to Israel, I'm pretty certain they'd be in a MAJOR heap of trouble financially and politically.

But that's the thing with giving ANY monies to any other country- there are going to be things about that country SOMEONE doesn't care for. Israel does a ton of bad stuff...they also provide a safe haven for those who were persecuted about 100 years ago.

I'm curious if you polled the US citizens they'd be in favor of removing all aid to other countries if that meant a more meaningful life for it's citizens. Maybe there'd be more of a taste for those "living wages" or basic income

But that is why the argument is coming full circle: the US doesn't manage it's money well so there's a major faction of the population who feels they have a vested interest in keeping what they have vs giving it away (or having the government decide how it gets distributed).

I realize south and central american countries aren't exactly the bastion of clean governance. But you cannot compare a state that stole someone else's land through terrorism and violence, engages in apartheid, and gobbles up more land thumbing its nose at the UN and rest of the world to an asylum seeker from Guatemala. It's simply not the same thing. One is subsidizing a state, the other is helping an individual.

You do realize that the moment you live in a society, you abide by and must accept the rules of how the nation state spends the money. You take the good with the bad. You agree to pay your taxes, and it would be an impossibility for you to determine how or where it is spent for the greater good. And this is really the full circle discussion :

What is your definition of "greater good?" For some, blowing over $20-30 Billion ($5.6 billion is laughable) to build a 15th century wall is the greater good, while handing tax loopholes to the well off. But if you hate so much how the money is being spent, get out and convince people that a stupid wall is necessary. Because most of the country still thinks it's stupid. And Mexico sure as fuck isn't going to pay for it. You are. So the minority is telling the majority how to spend money, and that's okay with you? Sounds like a double standard when you complain about . . .

Mismanagement of funds is nothing new. Been happening since I've been alive. Nixon blew how much money in Viet Nam? Reagan was the biggest spender, leaving the country in debt. Where was all the outrage at that? Or bushies trillion dollar nation building project because of a colossal lie? The conservative right defended all those decisions vehemently, without question.

[955876]

Typical you highlight spending mismanagement only by Republican presidents.

This one in particular.

Nixon blew how much money in Viet Nam?

Not saying I’m a fan of Nixon but it was the cocksucker LBJ that escalated that war from 63-69 before Nixon became involved.

Most lay that war at his feet. Not the guy that inherited it from him.

When Nixon took over in 69 there was over half million troops in Vietnam. By 72 it was down to 69,000.