Cowher to the Hall of Fame
Re: Cowher to the Hall of Fame
I suppose Cowher deserves credit for shepherding a bunch of players along Canton-worthy careers but his inclusion cheapens the Hall.
He had far too many big losses as a favorite.
He had far too many big losses as a favorite.
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Madden and Parcells had a unique and significant impact on the game. Their impact goes waaaaay beyond their resumesPabst wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:18 pmHard to say. Tony Dungy, John Madden, and Bill Parcells are all in the HOF and have similar resumes.Steelafan77 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:54 pmSo I have to ask.....
If Cowher made the HOF what does this say about Tomlin? Tomlin a lock for HOF?
Tony Dungy was a mediocre coach. His TV gig will help him get in much like Cowher's
Seemingly a lot of hate on Bill in here.
He definitely had his flaws, but...
Bill not only took a roster that had struggled for the prior 4 years - and made it an immediate super bowl contending team; he rebuilt that roster when it aged away- and made the new team a contender as well.
He did all of this while having marginal at best QBs- and a constant stream of free agents leave, without being replaced in free agency. (This also greatly reflects his personnel/roster management ability which is under-recognized. )
Despite his turtle ball tendencies- he knew when to take chances and how to coach the game to the opponent. His 95 team should have/would have beaten a heavily favored Dallas team if not for the bullshit play of "he who shall remain nameless."
Lastly, what does it say about his team development that it is widely recognized that the current coaches success was/is in large part due to the roster built by the prior coach?
Anywho- I'm glad Bill was selected, but I'm on the - I'm a little surprised he was selected team here. Also, I agree, Jimmy Johnson was/is more deserving.
Lastly, lastly, the remaining 10 "old timer" players to be inducted is announce this wednesday.
Shell and LC are both on the list, IIRC.
Both players are on that same - Hall of Very Good fence, but I think Shell gets in. Part of this is - I think the HOF is going to utilize the fan momentum of - 4 steelers and almost certainly Hard Knocks- plus the HOF game- to make Canton Pittsburgh West for the week. They'll love the story line of 2 Steeler SS's getting selected into the Hall.
He definitely had his flaws, but...
Bill not only took a roster that had struggled for the prior 4 years - and made it an immediate super bowl contending team; he rebuilt that roster when it aged away- and made the new team a contender as well.
He did all of this while having marginal at best QBs- and a constant stream of free agents leave, without being replaced in free agency. (This also greatly reflects his personnel/roster management ability which is under-recognized. )
Despite his turtle ball tendencies- he knew when to take chances and how to coach the game to the opponent. His 95 team should have/would have beaten a heavily favored Dallas team if not for the bullshit play of "he who shall remain nameless."
Lastly, what does it say about his team development that it is widely recognized that the current coaches success was/is in large part due to the roster built by the prior coach?
Anywho- I'm glad Bill was selected, but I'm on the - I'm a little surprised he was selected team here. Also, I agree, Jimmy Johnson was/is more deserving.
Lastly, lastly, the remaining 10 "old timer" players to be inducted is announce this wednesday.
Shell and LC are both on the list, IIRC.
Both players are on that same - Hall of Very Good fence, but I think Shell gets in. Part of this is - I think the HOF is going to utilize the fan momentum of - 4 steelers and almost certainly Hard Knocks- plus the HOF game- to make Canton Pittsburgh West for the week. They'll love the story line of 2 Steeler SS's getting selected into the Hall.
Dungy is already in. Being the first African-American coach to win a Super Bowl was his clincher.Donnie Brasco wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:34 pmMadden and Parcells had a unique and significant impact on the game. Their impact goes waaaaay beyond their resumesPabst wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:18 pmHard to say. Tony Dungy, John Madden, and Bill Parcells are all in the HOF and have similar resumes.Steelafan77 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:54 pmSo I have to ask.....
If Cowher made the HOF what does this say about Tomlin? Tomlin a lock for HOF?
Tony Dungy was a mediocre coach. His TV gig will help him get in much like Cowher's
Both Parcells and Madden are in as coaches, not contributors, which is a distinct category. I remember that being a huge debate around Madden during his induction - whether his contributions should factor in.
I blame Cowher 100% for the Steelers having "marginal at best QB's" though. He never, ever prioritized the position.anpsteel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:14 pmSeemingly a lot of hate on Bill in here.
He definitely had his flaws, but...
Bill not only took a roster that had struggled for the prior 4 years - and made it an immediate super bowl contending team; he rebuilt that roster when it aged away- and made the new team a contender as well.
He did all of this while having marginal at best QBs- and a constant stream of free agents leave, without being replaced in free agency. (This also greatly reflects his personnel/roster management ability which is under-recognized. )
Despite his turtle ball tendencies- he knew when to take chances and how to coach the game to the opponent. His 95 team should have/would have beaten a heavily favored Dallas team if not for the bullshit play of "he who shall remain nameless."
Lastly, what does it say about his team development that it is widely recognized that the current coaches success was/is in large part due to the roster built by the prior coach?
Anywho- I'm glad Bill was selected, but I'm on the - I'm a little surprised he was selected team here. Also, I agree, Jimmy Johnson was/is more deserving.
Lastly, lastly, the remaining 10 "old timer" players to be inducted is announce this wednesday.
Shell and LC are both on the list, IIRC.
Both players are on that same - Hall of Very Good fence, but I think Shell gets in. Part of this is - I think the HOF is going to utilize the fan momentum of - 4 steelers and almost certainly Hard Knocks- plus the HOF game- to make Canton Pittsburgh West for the week. They'll love the story line of 2 Steeler SS's getting selected into the Hall.
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Harvey Woodlawn
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There may be some truth to that, but until Cowher won the battle with Donahue, I'm not sure how much ability he had to get a QB.K_C_ wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:10 pmI blame Cowher 100% for the Steelers having "marginal at best QB's" though. He never, ever prioritized the position.anpsteel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:14 pmSeemingly a lot of hate on Bill in here.
He definitely had his flaws, but...
Bill not only took a roster that had struggled for the prior 4 years - and made it an immediate super bowl contending team; he rebuilt that roster when it aged away- and made the new team a contender as well.
He did all of this while having marginal at best QBs- and a constant stream of free agents leave, without being replaced in free agency. (This also greatly reflects his personnel/roster management ability which is under-recognized. )
Despite his turtle ball tendencies- he knew when to take chances and how to coach the game to the opponent. His 95 team should have/would have beaten a heavily favored Dallas team if not for the bullshit play of "he who shall remain nameless."
Lastly, what does it say about his team development that it is widely recognized that the current coaches success was/is in large part due to the roster built by the prior coach?
Anywho- I'm glad Bill was selected, but I'm on the - I'm a little surprised he was selected team here. Also, I agree, Jimmy Johnson was/is more deserving.
Lastly, lastly, the remaining 10 "old timer" players to be inducted is announce this wednesday.
Shell and LC are both on the list, IIRC.
Both players are on that same - Hall of Very Good fence, but I think Shell gets in. Part of this is - I think the HOF is going to utilize the fan momentum of - 4 steelers and almost certainly Hard Knocks- plus the HOF game- to make Canton Pittsburgh West for the week. They'll love the story line of 2 Steeler SS's getting selected into the Hall.
Keeping in mind- the team's philosophy at that point was to build almost solely through the draft. It's not as if they were passing up an abundance of franchise QBs at the tail end of each round.
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I do not think it should be underestimated how Bill Cowher carried the Steelers brand; tough, hardnosed, intense, blue collar, grit, determination, etc. into the more modern era. We seemingly have total continuity from the 70s up to today with respect to the identity of the team. Cowher did well to resurrect the winning culture from the 70s during the 90s.
The Steelers rich history has made for exceptional parity with other teams and helped other franchises gain identity themselves. Cowher helped to answer a question which for the most part never had to be asked in Pittsburgh. The Steelers are who they are today significantly because of Bill Cowher, and the rest of the league still benefits from that work as well.
I say he deserves the Hall!
The Steelers rich history has made for exceptional parity with other teams and helped other franchises gain identity themselves. Cowher helped to answer a question which for the most part never had to be asked in Pittsburgh. The Steelers are who they are today significantly because of Bill Cowher, and the rest of the league still benefits from that work as well.
I say he deserves the Hall!
Nothing more needs be said, IMO. I believe Bill and Mike are/were very good coaches, not great, but the contributions that you identified in this post about Coach Cowher are indisputable. I'm happy for him, and I don't have to make any apologies for it. I'm a diehard homer.PennyBacker wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:40 pmI do not think it should be underestimated how Bill Cowher carried the Steelers brand; tough, hardnosed, intense, blue collar, grit, determination, etc. into the more modern era. We seemingly have total continuity from the 70s up to today with respect to the identity of the team. Cowher did well to resurrect the winning culture from the 70s during the 90s.
The Steelers rich history has made for exceptional parity with other teams and helped other franchises gain identity themselves. Cowher helped to answer a question which for the most part never had to be asked in Pittsburgh. The Steelers are who they are today significantly because of Bill Cowher, and the rest of the league still benefits from that work as well.
I say he deserves the Hall!
Cowher was very deserving, IMO.
His big game losses came to Elway (twice), Brady (twice) and Aikman. All 5 teams went on to win the SB. The only real playoff flub he had was SD in the AFCC.
Sure, they were favorites in many of those games. But with a huge disadvantage at QB (and, indeed, they were victimized by pretty poor QB play in most of those games), it could be argued those teams overachieved.
In an era with a dearth of elite QB's, Cowher probably had the most success of anyone without such a QB. If Andy Reid manages to win the SB, he'll have a little better resume than Cowher.
His big game losses came to Elway (twice), Brady (twice) and Aikman. All 5 teams went on to win the SB. The only real playoff flub he had was SD in the AFCC.
Sure, they were favorites in many of those games. But with a huge disadvantage at QB (and, indeed, they were victimized by pretty poor QB play in most of those games), it could be argued those teams overachieved.
In an era with a dearth of elite QB's, Cowher probably had the most success of anyone without such a QB. If Andy Reid manages to win the SB, he'll have a little better resume than Cowher.
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Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
When Cowher did his best to get Shawn Andrews, instead of Ben Roethlisberger, that told me all I need to know about him. Cowher simply thought he could win big without an elite QB.anpsteel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:19 pmThere may be some truth to that, but until Cowher won the battle with Donahue, I'm not sure how much ability he had to get a QB.K_C_ wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:10 pmI blame Cowher 100% for the Steelers having "marginal at best QB's" though. He never, ever prioritized the position.anpsteel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:14 pmSeemingly a lot of hate on Bill in here.
He definitely had his flaws, but...
Bill not only took a roster that had struggled for the prior 4 years - and made it an immediate super bowl contending team; he rebuilt that roster when it aged away- and made the new team a contender as well.
He did all of this while having marginal at best QBs- and a constant stream of free agents leave, without being replaced in free agency. (This also greatly reflects his personnel/roster management ability which is under-recognized. )
Despite his turtle ball tendencies- he knew when to take chances and how to coach the game to the opponent. His 95 team should have/would have beaten a heavily favored Dallas team if not for the bullshit play of "he who shall remain nameless."
Lastly, what does it say about his team development that it is widely recognized that the current coaches success was/is in large part due to the roster built by the prior coach?
Anywho- I'm glad Bill was selected, but I'm on the - I'm a little surprised he was selected team here. Also, I agree, Jimmy Johnson was/is more deserving.
Lastly, lastly, the remaining 10 "old timer" players to be inducted is announce this wednesday.
Shell and LC are both on the list, IIRC.
Both players are on that same - Hall of Very Good fence, but I think Shell gets in. Part of this is - I think the HOF is going to utilize the fan momentum of - 4 steelers and almost certainly Hard Knocks- plus the HOF game- to make Canton Pittsburgh West for the week. They'll love the story line of 2 Steeler SS's getting selected into the Hall.
Keeping in mind- the team's philosophy at that point was to build almost solely through the draft. It's not as if they were passing up an abundance of franchise QBs at the tail end of each round.
He definitely got to some big games for sure. He was a very good coach, but he learned (the hard way) that you need a big-time QB to win big.
At least his big-chinned ass needed a special QB to get it done.
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I endorse this poast
Mike Tomlin: Bringing mediocrity to the 'Burgh for over a decade.
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Cowher has joked before about it. Said something along the lines of; "thank God they didn't listen to me".W&M_Steeler wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:45 pmWas that rumor ever substantiated? I've heard of it before, but I've never seen a source for it.
“The young girls strut their hips in the sun, from the brick streets of Whiting to the gates of St. John.”
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I'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
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Can't argue that, MJG... but I'd also have to say that it's clear what vision Tomlin has for his team as well (it's just that we don't like it any more than most of us liked Cowher's strategy):
Play it close to the vest and make better plays at the end.
This strategy works most of the time and also doesn't work as well in the postseason. It works better because it has a QB who can make those plays, but I guess you can be inclined to such a strategy when you have the QB.
Play it close to the vest and make better plays at the end.
This strategy works most of the time and also doesn't work as well in the postseason. It works better because it has a QB who can make those plays, but I guess you can be inclined to such a strategy when you have the QB.
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Yep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.MJG75 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pmI'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.
I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for...
“Ah, who cares about Seattle’s Space Needle? Dumb looking building, you can see the whole stupid town, built by some jag off! Pittsburgh got Mt. Warshington, gorgeous hillside, beautiful views of the whole city, built by God…we win!” - Pittsburgh Dad
The Tommy Turnover era was not pound and ground. And it didn’t get to the him to the Super Bowl. Still, I get your point. Ben would probably never have generated the passing numbers he has, if Chin had stayed around.Jobu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pmYep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.MJG75 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pmI'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.
I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for...
Bill Cowher is cool as shit. He just is.
He's a regular season HOF coach. Post season is a higher league and he doesn't belong, IMO, neither does Tomlin.
I view HOF coaches as guys who innovated and/or created dynasties. I also like guys who turned around franchises. Being named the HC of the Pittsburgh Steelers is a coaching gift like no other.
As I write this I am reminded that I cannot stand Mike Tomlin as a HC because he's an albatross on offense.
That said, I'm glad to see our guys get voted into the HOF, so I'll take it.
I want Donnie Shell in the HOF... and L.C. Greenwood.
He's a regular season HOF coach. Post season is a higher league and he doesn't belong, IMO, neither does Tomlin.
I view HOF coaches as guys who innovated and/or created dynasties. I also like guys who turned around franchises. Being named the HC of the Pittsburgh Steelers is a coaching gift like no other.
As I write this I am reminded that I cannot stand Mike Tomlin as a HC because he's an albatross on offense.
That said, I'm glad to see our guys get voted into the HOF, so I'll take it.
I want Donnie Shell in the HOF... and L.C. Greenwood.
Throw. The. Football. On. First. Down.
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Albatross on Offense? Have you seen the defense outside of this season?Havoc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:34 pmBill Cowher is cool as shit. He just is.
He's a regular season HOF coach. Post season is a higher league and he doesn't belong, IMO, neither does Tomlin.
I view HOF coaches as guys who innovated and/or created dynasties. I also like guys who turned around franchises. Being named the HC of the Pittsburgh Steelers is a coaching gift like no other.
As I write this I am reminded that I cannot stand Mike Tomlin as a HC because he's an albatross on offense.
That said, I'm glad to see our guys get voted into the HOF, so I'll take it.
I want Donnie Shell in the HOF... and L.C. Greenwood.
The amount of draft capital spent compared to the results produced would make Enron blush
Pray tell, what has Mike Tomlin done to a defense that he had a chance to make in his image with his input on drafting and teaching? It took him 10 years to have a dominant defense again and that was only due to the addition of Minkah.
The DB and DC "guru" hasn't done jack all with a defense in 10 years. The amount of water carrying for Tomlin is baffling
I've never heard that.
I HAVE heard Rooney say "we'd all love to take credit for that pick [BEN]". He said that live in either the 2008 or 2010 AFCC.
And also that "we didn't think Ben would be there....and Cowher said "gotta take the QB". That's in Rooney's book. Any braindead fan can connect the dots and, basically, Ben unexpectedly fell in their lap and all agreed it was a no-brainer pick.
The Shane Andrews shit is complete bullshit. There's never been any credence to that rumor. None. I just gave you two examples in person, and in his book, where Rooney refutes that. And this has been said before, but still that bullshit keeps coming up. I know you hate him, but he belongs in the HOF.
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Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
This just isn't true.Jobu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pmYep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.MJG75 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pmI'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.
I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for...
Neither the 95 or 05 teams wavered from his run first philosophy, at all. Morris/Peagram and Parker/Bettis were the backs - unless my addled brain is addledly. lol
Also to point out, that run first ideology is certainly seeing a resurgence this year. How did Balt, Hou, Tenn do?
Admittedly, the rules greatly favor the passing game, but the league is cyclical and the run will come back.
Finally, Cowher needed to go, imo, more so because the message becomes stall and the players less responsive, as time wears on. Madden was famous for saying no HC should be in place beyond 10 years. The players begin to tune out the message, and I think to some degree that's what we saw on Cowher's final teams.
The only thing that I think is completely substantiated- was that Cowher was fawning over the chance of drafting Phillip Rivers. Other than that- I'm sure his board was a bit different than public perception.Kodiak wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:11 amI've never heard that.
I HAVE heard Rooney say "we'd all love to take credit for that pick [BEN]". He said that live in either the 2008 or 2010 AFCC.
And also that "we didn't think Ben would be there....and Cowher said "gotta take the QB". That's in Rooney's book. Any braindead fan can connect the dots and, basically, Ben unexpectedly fell in their lap and all agreed it was a no-brainer pick.
The Shane Andrews shit is complete bullshit. There's never been any credence to that rumor. None. I just gave you two examples in person, and in his book, where Rooney refutes that. And this has been said before, but still that bullshit keeps coming up. I know you hate him, but he belongs in the HOF.
The fact that he was able to win as much as he did WITHOUT a qb speaks volumes.
Compare this to Tomlin's coaching prowess with a HOF qb.
Compare this to Tomlin's coaching prowess with a HOF qb.
Balt is a PS fraud unless Jackson improves as a passer outside the hashes. Hou is eliminated, and Tenn is (probably) about to be.anpsteel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:46 amThis just isn't true.Jobu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pmYep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.MJG75 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pmI'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.
I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for...
Neither the 95 or 05 teams wavered from his run first philosophy, at all. Morris/Peagram and Parker/Bettis were the backs - unless my addled brain is addledly. lol
Also to point out, that run first ideology is certainly seeing a resurgence this year. How did Balt, Hou, Tenn do?
Admittedly, the rules greatly favor the passing game, but the league is cyclical and the run will come back.
Finally, Cowher needed to go, imo, more so because the message becomes stall and the players less responsive, as time wears on. Madden was famous for saying no HC should be in place beyond 10 years. The players begin to tune out the message, and I think to some degree that's what we saw on Cowher's final teams.
There have ALWAYS been pound the rock teams that get fans excited in the RS only to come up short in the PS... that is the norm. It's not going to change. The exception is if you have a once every 10 year defense then you have a chance with inferior ground and pound offense.
BTW, I was listening to ESPN this morning, a guest talked about the Titans. He said they were an early game play action pass throw deep and build a lead with the pass team, that is how they game planned, and then they gave the body blows with the run game. He was adamant that the idea that they were simply ground and pound is false.
Throw. The. Football. On. First. Down.
I've heard that rumor, as well. Never really saw any confirmation. I remember they took him to dinner and there was a lot of smoke about them wanting Rivers, senior bowl and all that.
But he was off the board - never knew if they actually had Ben rated higher. If I'm remembering correctly, Rivers' stock kind of unexpectedly rose in the months before the draft. I doubt they expected any of the three QB's to be there at #11, and perhaps that is where the Shane Andrews rumor comes from.
Think about what a miracle that was. CLE - the team that's been desperately throwing draft picks at QB for over two decades - inexplicably passed on drafting Ben Roethlisberger. I'd guess Cowher, Colbert and Rooney were all in shock.
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Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
Ben comes back, Tomlin doesn't = CHAMPIONSHIP!!!
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IIRC ??
Rivers was thought of as the most plug and play ready as a game manager
Rivers was thought of as the most plug and play ready as a game manager
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2 T’Vondre Sweat DL
3 Isaac Guerendo RB/WR
4 Tykee Smith DB
5 Ainias Smith WR/RB
6 KT Leveston OL
7 Ulumoo Ale DL/OL
Gorilla Warfare
Except that the second to last of Cowher's teams won a Super Bowl, so it wouldn't appear his message was stale then.anpsteel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:46 amThis just isn't true.Jobu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pmYep...the two times he wavered from “his kind of team” he made the Super Bowl. Then he went right back to his conservative scheme the following season. Football coaches in general are a stubborn lot. Cowher took that to a higher level.MJG75 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:21 pmI'll say one thing about Coach Bill Cowher: He knew what kind of team he wanted to field, from day one. I saw him waver from this only a few times, but rarely over the course of his Steelers coaching career. He wanted pound and ground. To stop the run, to run the ball well. To have this identity, a physical one. It worked most of the time, but when he got into the post-season, the lack of a quality QB did him in a bit. Still, if NOD doesn't toss two costly INT's late in SB XXX, it very nearly worked (though I thought Coach also should have started Bam Morris earlier in a game with a sloppy field). He was consistent. He hired coaches who shared his vision and his philosophy. I tip my hat to that kind of solid vision for what he wanted his teams to be.
He got out at the right time. The game didn’t just pass him by...it zoomed by.
I still shake my head every time I’m reminded that they put this guy in the HoF. The NFLs 100th anniversary will go down as the year they cheapened the honor of being inducted in to the Hall. Cant wait to see what other “greats” they leave the door ajar for...
Neither the 95 or 05 teams wavered from his run first philosophy, at all. Morris/Peagram and Parker/Bettis were the backs - unless my addled brain is addledly. lol
Also to point out, that run first ideology is certainly seeing a resurgence this year. How did Balt, Hou, Tenn do?
Admittedly, the rules greatly favor the passing game, but the league is cyclical and the run will come back.
Finally, Cowher needed to go, imo, more so because the message becomes stall and the players less responsive, as time wears on. Madden was famous for saying no HC should be in place beyond 10 years. The players begin to tune out the message, and I think to some degree that's what we saw on Cowher's final teams.
I remember the 95 Steelers as being a passing team, rolling out the 5 WR set for the first time complete with Slash.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
--Voltaire
--Voltaire
While this has some merit, if you really break it down, isn’t it highly likely that the “message” is being told to entirely new players every few years? So how would it get stale when guys that have heard it are gone?Cowher needed to go, imo, more so because the message becomes stall and the players less responsive, as time wears on. Madden was famous for saying no HC should be in place beyond 10 years. The players begin to tune out the message, and I think to some degree that's what we saw on Cowher's final teams.
I think part of the “stale message” notion is that coaches likely get lazy in their message and amount of work they put in. Might start resting on past accomplishments and “mailing it in” so to speak.
Look at all the new faces we have. If you simply look at tenure you could conclude Tomlin’s message is stale.
But if looking at the roster it should be fresh for a good number of them.
Jibbs: The Road to Nowhere Leads to Me…
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Hines Ward is more deserving than Cowher. Hopefully Cowher's presence will be as a lobbyist for Hines.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
Nietzsche
Nietzsche