Feiler to LG...

[Steelafan77]

Coach Mike Tomlin announced Tuesday that, based on experience in the team’s system, Feiler will get the first crack at left guard, with young players Chuks Okorafor and Zach Banner competing at right tackle.

https://triblive.com/sports/matt-feiler ... lisberger/

Looks like they're going to move Feiler to the LG position and look at Okorafor and Banner at RT. Thoughts?


My thoughts are..., Why? Why not keep Feiler at RT where he is good and hold competitions at LG? Seems to me that there is less risk involved by keeping Feiler at RT. Why sign Wisniewski then? If your paying 31 year old Wisnieski a few million to play guard anyway shouldn't he be competing for a starting role at LG?

[bradshaw2ben]

Because, as I've opined for months: Feiler is potentially an All-Pro G. He has been magnificent at G in limited opportunities. He did a good job at RT but he struggled with a couple of opponents, notably Chandler Jones. Furthermore, Banner and maybe even Chuks could play RT at a higher level than Wisniewski could play LG.

Wis was signed to be the backup IOL––Since Finney left, no one else has experience playing C.

[RemoAZ]

Still think they should get Feiler signed now before his price goes way of as a FA.

[Scunge]

I agree with B2B.

I have read many people complement both of our young tackles in recent weeks. Okorafora has all the tools and he was a 3rd round pick. I like that he was a soccer player as a kid and still shows the nimbleness to do that. Banner, if you look around, he has been showing off pictures of his new body, he has really been working hard to get into the best shape of his life. I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say that both Chuks and Banner will be in that 320 pound range to start the season, if we have a season.

I have said this before but the offensive line is THE biggest soap opera to watch this season. You have Big Al in the last year of his contract, you have Zach Banner and Chuks Okorafora making a push to become starters. If they both push one another to a high enough level, may the team let Big Al go and sign a younger Banner instead after the season?? Chuks at LT and Banner at RT for 2021?

If Feiler starts at LG and does really well you have to pay him too, further pushing Big Al out the door. You can afford to keep Fieler and Banner but probably not Big Al as well. I look at DeCastro who has only two years left on his contract, will he finish his career as a Steeler or unfortunately go the route of Alan Faneca? Will they be able to pay for two high priced guards if Feiler thrives at LG??

To me these are all great problems to have, to have great competition and options, not just forced to overpay or stay with offensive linemen on the downside of their careers.

[Scunge]

Also, one last point about Feiler.

I truly do think the Steelers want to get back some of that smash mouth running game.

Feiler supposedly is the strongest linemen we have, they may want a road grader inside that can just bully people.

If it is 3rd and 2, and you want to run the ball for the first, would be so satisfying to again have a monster run blocker that can just destroy people and push people around. Maybe Dotson will be that guy too, but Feiler has shown that he can be that guy this season.

Again, Dotson and Feiler at Guard and Chuks and Banner at Tackle by 2022 and you may see Big Al and DeCastro elsewhere.

[Jobu]

I truly do think the Steelers want to get back some of that smash mouth running game.

This is likely true...it’s also losing football.

[bradshaw2ben]

I truly do think the Steelers want to get back some of that smash mouth running game.

This is likely true...it’s also losing football.

AMEN, BROTHER.

Although, when it's 3rd or 4th and 1, you have to be able to run it sometimes––in that situation, it's nice to have a guy you can really lean on to get leverage and move somebody. For all of Decastro's talent, driving a guy straight ahead isn't near the top of his skillset. Same with Pouncey.

I think they'll re-sign Feiler before the season starts, hope that Banner/Chuks can seize the RT job and audition for a year to be the next LT. You could see:

Banner-Feiler-Dotson-Decastro-Chuks in 2021.

[Pabst]

Banner-Feiler-Dotson-Decastro-Chuks in 2021.

You see Dotson as a C?

[955876]

I’d feel a lot better about rearranging the deck chairs if MM was still Captain of the ship.

[VeritasSteel]

I truly do think the Steelers want to get back some of that smash mouth running game.

This is likely true...it’s also losing football.

AMEN, BROTHER.

Although, when it's 3rd or 4th and 1, you have to be able to run it sometimes––in that situation, it's nice to have a guy you can really lean on to get leverage and move somebody. For all of Decastro's talent, driving a guy straight ahead isn't near the top of his skillset. Same with Pouncey.

I think they'll re-sign Feiler before the season starts, hope that Banner/Chuks can seize the RT job and audition for a year to be the next LT. You could see:

Banner-Feiler-Dotson-Decastro-Chuks in 2021.

The Steelers need to have a run-heavy offense capability. With a lead, I want to see is a 7-minute drive in the 3rd quarter that ends in a TD. This would effectively end the game. I am not advocating turtling- but I don't want our defense overworked by a our offense going 3 and out trying to throw into unfavorable coverages or unable to convert 3rd and 3 or less consistently

[bradshaw2ben]

Banner-Feiler-Dotson-Decastro-Chuks in 2021.

You see Dotson as a C?

Unless Feiler doesn't hack it at LG or Decastro can't be re-signed. Dotson said he was working on snapping the football, and the next two spots to be refilled are LT and C, so hopefully he can be one of those.

[bradshaw2ben]

This is likely true...it’s also losing football.

AMEN, BROTHER.

Although, when it's 3rd or 4th and 1, you have to be able to run it sometimes––in that situation, it's nice to have a guy you can really lean on to get leverage and move somebody. For all of Decastro's talent, driving a guy straight ahead isn't near the top of his skillset. Same with Pouncey.

I think they'll re-sign Feiler before the season starts, hope that Banner/Chuks can seize the RT job and audition for a year to be the next LT. You could see:

Banner-Feiler-Dotson-Decastro-Chuks in 2021.

The Steelers need to have a run-heavy offense capability. With a lead, I want to see is a 7-minute drive in the 3rd quarter that ends in a TD. This would effectively end the game. I am not advocating turtling- but I don't want our defense overworked by a our offense going 3 and out trying to throw into unfavorable coverages or unable to convert 3rd and 3 or less consistently

Thing is, 'tas, the most consistent way to convert 3rd and short is throwing the ball. And they also need to keep throwing it more than 50% of the time on 1st and 2nd down. They get into that thing where they don't exactly turtle but every 1st down incompletion is followed by a run, which is just dumb sometimes.

[VeritasSteel]

AMEN, BROTHER.

Although, when it's 3rd or 4th and 1, you have to be able to run it sometimes––in that situation, it's nice to have a guy you can really lean on to get leverage and move somebody. For all of Decastro's talent, driving a guy straight ahead isn't near the top of his skillset. Same with Pouncey.

I think they'll re-sign Feiler before the season starts, hope that Banner/Chuks can seize the RT job and audition for a year to be the next LT. You could see:

Banner-Feiler-Dotson-Decastro-Chuks in 2021.

The Steelers need to have a run-heavy offense capability. With a lead, I want to see is a 7-minute drive in the 3rd quarter that ends in a TD. This would effectively end the game. I am not advocating turtling- but I don't want our defense overworked by a our offense going 3 and out trying to throw into unfavorable coverages or unable to convert 3rd and 3 or less consistently

Thing is, 'tas, the most consistent way to convert 3rd and short is throwing the ball. And they also need to keep throwing it more than 50% of the time on 1st and 2nd down. They get into that thing where they don't exactly turtle but every 1st down incompletion is followed by a run, which is just dumb sometimes.

Did you just freakin nickname me?

I get what you are saying. But I like a good run on 2nd and medium to set up 3rd and short which gives you tremendous flexibility in play calling. The problem with the one-dimensional high powered offense is they usually leave the door open late in games.

Look at the 2018 game against the Chiefs- we are getting blown out in that game. But the Chiefs left too many possessions out there and we got back into the game. Had it not been for a roughing the punter call on Dirty Red we get the ball back with a chance to win the freaking game after being down by 21 points. This in A game with no turnovers or special teams scores (safety isnt a turnover is it) and the QB throws for 6 TDs. That game should be over if the running game can take over and take possessions away from the other team. That was the story of the Chiefs that year- allowing teams back in games after they were blowing them out or found a way to get back into games (NE and LAR).

What I am hoping for is a John Elway ending for Ben. Have a good running attack and then just make throws into single coverage where we have a talent advantage or against some soft zones on unscheduled downs.

[fractalsteel]

Banner-Feiler-Dotson-Decastro-Chuks in 2021.

You see Dotson as a C?

Unless Feiler doesn't hack it at LG or Decastro can't be re-signed. Dotson said he was working on snapping the football, and the next two spots to be refilled are LT and C, so hopefully he can be one of those.

Pouncey is under contract two more years. You really think they get rid of him after this season, if there is one?

[JackLambert58]

The Steelers need to have a run-heavy offense capability. With a lead, I want to see is a 7-minute drive in the 3rd quarter that ends in a TD. This would effectively end the game. I am not advocating turtling- but I don't want our defense overworked by a our offense going 3 and out trying to throw into unfavorable coverages or unable to convert 3rd and 3 or less consistently

Thing is, 'tas, the most consistent way to convert 3rd and short is throwing the ball. And they also need to keep throwing it more than 50% of the time on 1st and 2nd down. They get into that thing where they don't exactly turtle but every 1st down incompletion is followed by a run, which is just dumb sometimes.

Did you just freakin nickname me?

I get what you are saying. But I like a good run on 2nd and medium to set up 3rd and short which gives you tremendous flexibility in play calling. The problem with the one-dimensional high powered offense is they usually leave the door open late in games.

Look at the 2018 game against the Chiefs- we are getting blown out in that game. But the Chiefs left too many possessions out there and we got back into the game. Had it not been for a roughing the punter call on Dirty Red we get the ball back with a chance to win the freaking game after being down by 21 points. This in A game with no turnovers or special teams scores (safety isnt a turnover is it) and the QB throws for 6 TDs. That game should be over if the running game can take over and take possessions away from the other team. That was the story of the Chiefs that year- allowing teams back in games after they were blowing them out or found a way to get back into games (NE and LAR).

What I am hoping for is a John Elway ending for Ben. Have a good running attack and then just make throws into single coverage where we have a talent advantage or against some soft zones on unscheduled downs.

Just need a decent RB to get that 2nd down run.

[bradshaw2ben]

You see Dotson as a C?

Unless Feiler doesn't hack it at LG or Decastro can't be re-signed. Dotson said he was working on snapping the football, and the next two spots to be refilled are LT and C, so hopefully he can be one of those.

Pouncey is under contract two more years. You really think they get rid of him after this season, if there is one?

He either needs to be extended or encouraged to retire after this year. Cap hit for 2021 becomes insane. It doubles. If he's extending, too many OL is a great problem to have... but right now:
LT in last year, LG in last year, C has a cap hit balloon after this year, RG is in next to last year, RT is in last year

What does that look like to you?

[bradshaw2ben]

What I am hoping for is a John Elway ending for Ben. Have a good running attack and then just make throws into single coverage where we have a talent advantage or against some soft zones on unscheduled downs.

Ben is so, so much better at this point of his career than Elway was in the last few years. Elway was a shell of himself, not unlike Peyton in his last year. Ben is still in the latter part of his peak, and he plays in a league that is totally different than the one Elway faced in 1997-98.

I think the Steelers offense is going to look a lot like 2018, except paired with a top 5 D.

[El Kabong]

I think the Steelers offense is going to look a lot like 2018, except paired with a top 5 D.

As visions of another Lombardi dance in my head.

[Kodiak]

I think the Steelers offense is going to look a lot like 2018, except paired with a top 5 D.

Do you still think they'll be a top-5 D if they only get an average number of turnovers (say 20 or so)?

By my count, they were 8 picks above average and 9 fumble recoveries above average. Those 17 extra turnovers will do a hell of a lot of the defensive stats. Minkah made a ton of difference, but after forgetting how to generate turnovers for so long I'm not real confident they'll be above average next year.

Still, they were 4th against the pass in rating and YPA, and shockingly 2nd against the rush (YPC) and 1st in TD's allowed. Solid metrics that shouldn't be influenced all that much by turnovers.

[Baltostiller]

Unless Feiler doesn't hack it at LG or Decastro can't be re-signed. Dotson said he was working on snapping the football, and the next two spots to be refilled are LT and C, so hopefully he can be one of those.

Pouncey is under contract two more years. You really think they get rid of him after this season, if there is one?

He either needs to be extended or encouraged to retire after this year. Cap hit for 2021 becomes insane. It doubles. If he's extending, too many OL is a great problem to have... but right now:
LT in last year, LG in last year, C has a cap hit balloon after this year, RG is in next to last year, RT is in last year

What does that look like to you?

Pouncey will be 31 when this season starts. Do you really think he will retire?? Dawson played until he was 35, Faneca until he was 34. I guarantee Pouncey will play at least 5 more years, with the Steelers or not. He ain't retiring any time soon.

[Kodiak]

Pouncey will be 31 when this season starts. Do you really think he will retire??

The elephant in the room is that Ben has said, multiple times, he'll play as long as Pouncey plays. Given that, I tend to agree with you that if Ben wanted to play 3-4 more years Pouncey would be down with that.

Also, yes, Ben can absolutely play 3-4 more years at a high level if he chooses. He was gifted with a naturally better arm than Brees or Brady, whom are playing at 41 and 43, respectively. The arm is the last thing to go. Ben now gets rid of the ball as fast as anyone. Give him the weapons and the protection and no doubt he can play at a high level another 4 years.

[Scunge]

Kodiak, I am real interested in the idea of the turnovers from last year not being able to be counted upon this year.

My feeling is why not? This defense is returning everybody with the exception of Javon, just one starter really. I don't consider Mark Barron that much of a loss and he was part of a rotation at ILB anyway.

Anyway, you have the chemistry of that secondary intact, you have them with experience playing together. I was of the opinion last offseason that secondary coach Teryl Austin was going to have a big impact, pointed out how he had many CBs and Ss become ballhawks and Pro Bowlers through his various stops in the NFL. And sure enough that happened with his first year coaching the secondary, Haden returned to form and Minkah became a Pro Bowler and All Pro and both were always around the ball, making INTs, etc.

The one big advantage I see this season for the defense is that they will have an offense that can score points and maybe have a higher time of possession. We went from being 6th in points scored to 27th in points scored on offense last season Went from a red zone % of 73.5 to 35. I believe the time of possession was almost 2 minutes less from 2018.

The defense last year often found itself in precarious situations because of the offense. Because of having a low scoring team. What might this defense be able to do if they are playing with more of a lead? Many times a defense is at its most dangerous when they have a lead, it can sometimes create big plays. When did this defense have that advantage last season?

If Ben and the offense is able to play closer to 2018 then the opposing offenses will be under more pressure. If teams are more flustered and can't just win a 17-14 game or a 14-10 game against us like last year, they will press things, make more mistakes, and then the defense may have an opportunity to continue making INTs and getting fumbles.

Anyway, those are my views on it, I am hopeful the turnovers and splash plays can continue.

[bradshaw2ben]

I think they are a top 1 or 2 defense with above-average turnover creation. I think they're a top 5 unit with average TO production.

I'm not necessarily saying Pouncey will retire, but where does all the money come from?

2021 cap hits:
Ben Roethlisberger... $41,250,000 (has to be re-done unless he retires)
Joe Haden... $15,575,000
Stephon Tuitt... $14,940,750
Maurkice Pouncey... $14,475,000
Steven Nelson... $14,420,000
David DeCastro.. $10,447,500
T.J. Watt OLB ... $10,089,000 (no way he plays on this number... will be re-signed)
Eric Ebron... $8,500,000
Vince Williams... $7,031,668
Devin Bush... $5,146,845
Chris Boswell... $4,773,333
Derek Watt FB... $3,833,333
Terrell Edmunds... $3,403,843
Minkah Fitzpatrick... $2,722,878

2021 FA:
Bud Dupree (market value around $16.6M/yr)
Cam Heyward (market value around $16.7M/yr)
JuJu Smith-Schuster (Grade A FA)
Matt Feiler (Grade A+ FA)
Alejandro Villanueva ((Grade B FA looking for 1st and probably last big payday)
James Conner (if he's great in '20, he is un-signable)
Zach Banner (could be easy to sign or an A/B FA)
Mike Hilton (looking for first payday
Vance McDonald (team has $8M Option)
Tyson Alualu (stopgap starter)
Cam Sutton (you've spent all this time developing him, probably not getting away)

Jordan Berry
Daniel McCullers
Chris Wormley
Jordan Dangerfield

$36M under the cap before any new deals or re-signed FAs
PLUS
Minkah Fitzpatrick (what are the chances he is happy playing for nothing after a couple of all-pro seasons?)

There aren't many cap savings cut candidates... maybe Vince, maybe a few million if Tuitt can't stay healthy, maybe $6M if Ebron is a bust.

Unless Ben's arm falls off or he retires after winning the SB, they absolutely have to extend Ben. 100%. There is no alternative, shy of wrecking the football team. They might fiddle with Pouncey's deal, too, to extend him at least as far as Ben plans on playing... but he's going to want to be paid.

If all are great in 2020 and the Steelers win the SB, can we swallow losing, say, all but two of JuJu, Conner, Dupree, McDonald, Heyward, Feiler, Villanueva, Banner? If Ben doesn't retire and the Steelers can put a true SB contender on the field in 2021, they will deserve front-office of the decade. With the potential reduction in cap because of the pandemic + Ben having re-done his deal so many times + several excellent young players hitting FA at the same time... it sure looks like 1 and done or a hell of a scramble.

Maybe:
QB Ben
OL Banner-Feiler-Pouncey-Decastro-Chuks
RB Snell-Samuels-Mcfarland
TE Ebron or McDonald but not both
WR DJ-Claypool-Washington

DL Heyward-Rookie-Tuitt
EDGE Highsmith/Ola-Watt
LB Bush-Gilbert
CB Haden-Nelson-Sutton
S Minkah-Edmunds

But that would take some doing. Players in bold would either have to be resigned/happy at team-friendly number or have their deal re-worked.

[Ice]

I think the Steelers offense is going to look a lot like 2018, except paired with a top 5 D.

Do you still think they'll be a top-5 D if they only get an average number of turnovers (say 20 or so)?

By my count, they were 8 picks above average and 9 fumble recoveries above average. Those 17 extra turnovers will do a hell of a lot of the defensive stats. Minkah made a ton of difference, but after forgetting how to generate turnovers for so long I'm not real confident they'll be above average next year.

Still, they were 4th against the pass in rating and YPA, and shockingly 2nd against the rush (YPC) and 1st in TD's allowed. Solid metrics that shouldn't be influenced all that much by turnovers.

Not to mention that the complete and total offensive failure put a LOT of pressure on the D. I can't think of a team in recent memory that counted on its D to win games the way the Steelers did last year. It was 76-esque.

[steelmann58]

I think Chucks is going to be groomed to be the future left tackle and Banner will be our starting RT.
But the KEY IMO is getting an UpGrade with the Coaching of the OL. I am not Buying the Combo of Starrett and Klemm.

[Havoc]

The Steelers need to have a run-heavy offense capability. With a lead, I want to see is a 7-minute drive in the 3rd quarter that ends in a TD. This would effectively end the game. I am not advocating turtling- but I don't want our defense overworked by a our offense going 3 and out trying to throw into unfavorable coverages or unable to convert 3rd and 3 or less consistently

Thing is, 'tas, the most consistent way to convert 3rd and short is throwing the ball. And they also need to keep throwing it more than 50% of the time on 1st and 2nd down. They get into that thing where they don't exactly turtle but every 1st down incompletion is followed by a run, which is just dumb sometimes.

Did you just freakin nickname me?

I get what you are saying. But I like a good run on 2nd and medium to set up 3rd and short which gives you tremendous flexibility in play calling. The problem with the one-dimensional high powered offense is they usually leave the door open late in games.

Look at the 2018 game against the Chiefs- we are getting blown out in that game. But the Chiefs left too many possessions out there and we got back into the game. Had it not been for a roughing the punter call on Dirty Red we get the ball back with a chance to win the freaking game after being down by 21 points. This in A game with no turnovers or special teams scores (safety isnt a turnover is it) and the QB throws for 6 TDs. That game should be over if the running game can take over and take possessions away from the other team. That was the story of the Chiefs that year- allowing teams back in games after they were blowing them out or found a way to get back into games (NE and LAR).

What I am hoping for is a John Elway ending for Ben. Have a good running attack and then just make throws into single coverage where we have a talent advantage or against some soft zones on unscheduled downs.

Andy Reid is an offensive guru, but doesn't he have a bad reputation with a lead? Takes the foot off the gas instead of putting teams out of their misery?

If you are burying a team, finish the job, keep doing what got you the lead in the first place unless the defense forces you out of it.

How many times have I seen coaches with a lead in the NFL do EXACTLY what the opposition needs them to do to give them a chance to get back in it by slightly easing up which is often all it takes to stop themselves and change the momentum of the game.

[Havoc]

I want to add another thought.

It's not only with a lead that coaches asses pucker. It also drives me crazy when an offense is humming and coaches change the offense because of field position. They stopped doing what caused the offense to hum and what often ensues is predictable. Punt and change of momentum.

If your offense is humming, why are you changing your offense if you start from your own 10 yd line? Just run the fucking offense. Coaches, get out of the way, stop "strategizing" and let your players play.

It has become my view there would be a significant net gain for 9 out of 10 coaches in the NFL if they would eliminate all "situational" thinking on the offensive side of the football and just run the offense (with necessary RZ adjustments to the route tree due to short field).

[shellwagnerblount]

I think Chucks is going to be groomed to be the future left tackle and Banner will be our starting RT.
But the KEY IMO is getting an UpGrade with the Coaching of the OL. I am not Buying the Combo of Starrett and Klemm.

I think I agree. The Steelers, IMO, go for the familiar over the better option at times. Just because a guy worked under a great OLine coach, doesn't mean he's simply going to pick up the baton and run as well with it as Munchak did. I don't regard myself as any kind of expert but the Oline didn't operate at the same level as the previous one, especially the crispness with which they went about their business under MM.
Find the best, get the best..wherever they are.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Im anxious to see where Chuks and Banner perform at.

Dotson looks like a keeper to me. And Banner I have always thought he was a natural Steeler RT.

Suppose the Steelers put $$ in Feiler at LG and Banner at RT. Both will get paid but probably not huge $$.

That leaves RG C LT to be accounted for in the future with Dotson probably grabbing either RG or C.

Banner Dotson Feiler seems like a pretty good youth movement to get started that wont cost a ton.

That leaves LT and one of the C/RG spots to be filled longterm over the next year or two. Thats not too bad

[steelmann58]

I think they Find either the LT or C in the next draft but i think the Believe Chucks will be the future LT with Banner as you said will be our RT.I think Matt and Zach will be able to get a good cheaper deal.But i like to think the steelers should have went after Bill Callahan instead of these two guys we have now.