Will Najee ever be a top 10 RB?

[Kodiak.]

the part that killed me at the time and still hurts as much was that we basically traded James Conner and a 1st rounder for James Conner that plays through injuries.

Conner ran hard and physical when he didn't need to.

One wonders if Najee will start breaking down soon, too. IMO, he runs too upright.

[COR-TEN]

Are you guys actually arguing the difference between 4.1 and 4.4 YPC means something?

[Mick]

Are you guys actually arguing the difference between 4.1 and 4.4 YPC means something?

I have no idea how someone could have read any post in this thread and come away with that. No. The top 20 non-Najee rushers (not top YPC rushers, top 20 by yardage) last season had an average YPC of 4.8. Najee was 3.8.

Yes, being a full yard per carry below average means something.

[Pickett's Platoon]

Are you guys actually arguing the difference between 4.1 and 4.4 YPC means something?

I have no idea how someone could have read any post in this thread and come away with that. No. The top 20 non-Najee rushers (not top YPC rushers, top 20 by yardage) last season had an average YPC of 4.8. Najee was 3.8.

Yes, being a full yard per carry below average means something.

Well, if you take away his short runs he's up around 5 ycp.

[COR-TEN]

Are you guys actually arguing the difference between 4.1 and 4.4 YPC means something?

I have no idea how someone could have read any post in this thread and come away with that. No. The top 20 non-Najee rushers (not top YPC rushers, top 20 by yardage) last season had an average YPC of 4.8. Najee was 3.8.

Yes, being a full yard per carry below average means something.

You're right. My bad. I misread the thread. 3.8 vs 4.8 means something. . .

[drmalba]

For RBs, i think it’s just najee. Warren is fine for YAC. And to the eye test, as above, Najee’s YAC problem is Najee. If Najee could move better, it would also help him get open easier against LBs. Being a natural pass catcher adds 0 value if (1) you can’t get open downfield and (2) you can’t get YAC.

I think if Najee gets a swing pass the last person that wants anything to do with that is a CB in the NFL. We didn't get to see him on many this year. Warren is definitely shiftier but I think a fully healthy Najee is going to open eyes in a lot of different ways. I may end up being wrong but after he slammed that falcons CB to the ground he looked like a different player with a different attitude about what was going to be going on.

Tweet has a short video of the body slamming of the DB.
https://twitter.com/WRBolen/status/1599 ... s-video%2F

This still shot is amazing

I may be part of a caveman minority here but I love a physical back and a physical run game. Now Warren is also an aggressive blocker and no wilting flower either. But Najee will be more healthy, with another back splitting his carries, and will be a sledgehammer to wear down the defenses in our division for years to come. (Not to mention the occasional trucking of a DB livens up the three yards and a cloud of dust approach.)

If Canada can figure out how to build even a JV play action game, with our WR talent, we will have something going here.

[Havoc]

Would Warren have gotten the chance to make an impact if Najee wasn't slowed by injury recovery?

One thing that jumped out to me with the 49ers is how quickly their RB's shot thru the hole. As I write this, I'm reminded of how much I hated the later Bell seasons. What a dumb sluggard offense when it was centered on him.

A lot of us get excited about Warren but he's nothing special. We are used to slugs at RB with years of slow Bell and big slow Najee and yes Najee looked a lot better later in the season.

I still pound the drum for RB by committee. It's not that hard to find heady (smart) role playing RBs with some quicks and reliable hands (like Warren) who are effective at the position. And then when 1 goes down the position is not hurt by it.

[K_C_]

Would Warren have gotten the chance to make an impact if Najee wasn't slowed by injury recovery?

One thing that jumped out to me with the 49ers is how quickly their RB's shot thru the hole. As I write this, I'm reminded of how much I hated the later Bell seasons. What a dumb sluggard offense when it was centered on him.

A lot of us get excited about Warren but he's nothing special. We are used to slugs at RB with years of slow Bell and big slow Najee and yes Najee looked a lot better later in the season.

I still pound the drum for RB by committee. It's not that hard to find heady role playing RBs with some quicks and reliable hands (like Warren) who are effective at the position. And then when 1 goes down the position is not hurt by it.

Disagree that Warren isn't anything special. Dude is an undrafted free agent and absolutely fucking BALLED OUT whenever he got opportunities.

Showed he could run with a major burst, with toughness and definitely plays with a lot more on-field speed than I'll bet than he was timed prior to the draft.

....and if you forget about Warren in the passing game, he can hit you with huge plays there too.

He also surprised me in pass pro. Did a lot of good things and is only going to get better.

[Havoc]

Would Warren have gotten the chance to make an impact if Najee wasn't slowed by injury recovery?

One thing that jumped out to me with the 49ers is how quickly their RB's shot thru the hole. As I write this, I'm reminded of how much I hated the later Bell seasons. What a dumb sluggard offense when it was centered on him.

A lot of us get excited about Warren but he's nothing special. We are used to slugs at RB with years of slow Bell and big slow Najee and yes Najee looked a lot better later in the season.

I still pound the drum for RB by committee. It's not that hard to find heady role playing RBs with some quicks and reliable hands (like Warren) who are effective at the position. And then when 1 goes down the position is not hurt by it.

Disagree that Warren isn't anything special. Dude is an undrafted free agent and absolutely fucking BALLED OUT whenever he got opportunities.

Showed he could run with a major burst, with toughness and definitely plays with a lot more on-field speed than I'll bet than he was timed prior to the draft.

....and if you forget about Warren in the passing game, he can hit you with huge plays there too.

He also surprised me in pass pro. Did a lot of good things and is only going to get better.

Don't get me wrong. I like Warren a lot. I'd like to see him get more snaps.

[K_C_]

Would Warren have gotten the chance to make an impact if Najee wasn't slowed by injury recovery?

One thing that jumped out to me with the 49ers is how quickly their RB's shot thru the hole. As I write this, I'm reminded of how much I hated the later Bell seasons. What a dumb sluggard offense when it was centered on him.

A lot of us get excited about Warren but he's nothing special. We are used to slugs at RB with years of slow Bell and big slow Najee and yes Najee looked a lot better later in the season.

I still pound the drum for RB by committee. It's not that hard to find heady role playing RBs with some quicks and reliable hands (like Warren) who are effective at the position. And then when 1 goes down the position is not hurt by it.

Disagree that Warren isn't anything special. Dude is an undrafted free agent and absolutely fucking BALLED OUT whenever he got opportunities.

Showed he could run with a major burst, with toughness and definitely plays with a lot more on-field speed than I'll bet than he was timed prior to the draft.

....and if you forget about Warren in the passing game, he can hit you with huge plays there too.

He also surprised me in pass pro. Did a lot of good things and is only going to get better.

Don't get me wrong. I like Warren a lot. I'd like to see him get more snaps.

Warren has probably saved Najee's career and him being injured early in the season was probably the best thing that ever could have happened to Harris.

Cool Shades would have ran his wheels off and Najee's time in the NFL would already be close to ending. Sad it took an injury for the Steelers to realize that we have 2 really good RB's on the roster. Shockingly, even McFarland looked good in limited opportunities. I hope to God they don't draft another RB this April. That's one of the few areas the Steelers are already completely set in IMHO.

[Kodiak.]

Plus, it's not like PIT hasn't drafted a ton of busts at RB.

Warren has done more, and actually looks more like an NFL player, than a bunch of guys PIT drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds the past decade.

How many times did PIT swing and miss trying to draft a backup RB? And if Najee weren't an R1 pick, he would very well have competition for starting RB.

[Scunge]

Yeah, I think Warren had an outstanding rookie season. You know how they do those redraft exercises 3 years later? He went undrafted, but now, I imagine most would have no problem saying he should be at least a 4th rounder in a redraft.

What is impressive with him is that at every level that he has played at, he has upped his game, continued to get better.

I remember reading scouting reports that said he would be a liability as a pass protector, that he would need to work on that. That he would need to develop better vision, that he would go down easy on first contact.

Then we see him in preseason games and what I read in scouting reports did not match what I was seeing live in games. He was mean and nasty as a blocker, had no problem identifying who to block and then destroying that defender, be it a linebacker or defensive end. He was a natural in the screen game, at setting himself up, at reading his blocks, at running short routes and making himself open. And he has soft hands, no problem catching outside his frame, over the shoulder.

I read that he had tightness in the hips, that he was not going to have much wiggle. And yet he did show some of that, especially as a receiver, was able to wiggle and contort his body to elude people for first downs. More deceptive and slippery than his bowling ball type of frame would suggest.

As a runner he showed that he could break tackles, not just lame arm tackles, that he could see holes develop, that he did know how to run and set up things behind his blockers.

I love him as a player and as an UDFA he was one of those classic Steeler moves. Always finding somebody as an UDFA.

For me, I still want that 3rd RB who can provide the explosive speed element, someone who can be that return man too. Think Darren Sproles, Tarik Cohen, etc.

Deuce Vaughn out of Kansas State?

I would rather have a fast, quick Sproles/Cohen type than a Benny Snell as that 3rd RB.

[Ice]

Since Willie Parker, the Steelers may have been worse drafting small, speedy RBs than they have been DBs.

[gojira5150]

Deuce Vaughn out of Kansas State?

I would rather have a fast, quick Sproles/Cohen type than a Benny Snell as that 3rd RB.

I was thinking about Deuce as well. I really like him as a returner as well as a change of pace back.

[yygy]

Of course Canada is going drag down Najee’s ypc pending off every first and second down for a total of 3 yards.

Got to back off teams from stacking the box.

By the way, the best compliment paid to Kenny Pickett this year was by the ravens. In the last game against them, they often had two safeties back and also frequently one of those safeties would backpedal at the snap.

Just in case, there’s any Steeler fans that don’t respect Kenny’s arm, know the rats do

[Jobu]

Deuce Vaughn out of Kansas State?

I would rather have a fast, quick Sproles/Cohen type than a Benny Snell as that 3rd RB.

I was thinking about Deuce as well. I really like him as a returner as well as a change of pace back.

You guys can’t see me, but I’m nodding in agreement!

[Pabst]

FWIW:

Deuce Vaughn: 5'6", 176 lbs
Dri Archer: 5'7", 173 lbs

Sproles was quite a bit heavier at the combine (190lbs).

Cohen added some weight after being drafted, but probably worth noting that his career only lasted 3 seasons.

[955876]

Of course Canada is going drag down Najee’s ypc pending off every first and second down for a total of 3 yards.

Got to back off teams from stacking the box.

By the way, the best compliment paid to Kenny Pickett this year was by the ravens. In the last game against them, they often had two safeties back and also frequently one of those safeties would backpedal at the snap.

Just in case, there’s any Steeler fans that don’t respect Kenny’s arm, know the rats do

I questioned if he had enough arm.

Feel he's shown enough that I don't think it will be an issue at all.

Plus, I expect with full offseason training and the work he will put in I expect he even picks up a few RPMs.

[Pickett's Platoon]

Of course Canada is going drag down Najee’s ypc pending off every first and second down for a total of 3 yards.

Got to back off teams from stacking the box.

By the way, the best compliment paid to Kenny Pickett this year was by the ravens. In the last game against them, they often had two safeties back and also frequently one of those safeties would backpedal at the snap.

Just in case, there’s any Steeler fans that don’t respect Kenny’s arm, know the rats do

I questioned if he had enough arm.

Feel he's shown enough that I don't think it will be an issue at all.

Plus, I expect with full offseason training and the work he will put in I expect he even picks up a few RPMs.

He will. Kenneth stated that he dropped a fair amount of mass training from the combine.

I doubt he'll ever develop a cannon or anything, but fully expect he'll have a Tom Brady like arm for most of his career.

[Pickett's Platoon]

Disagree that Warren isn't anything special. Dude is an undrafted free agent and absolutely fucking BALLED OUT whenever he got opportunities.

Showed he could run with a major burst, with toughness and definitely plays with a lot more on-field speed than I'll bet than he was timed prior to the draft.

....and if you forget about Warren in the passing game, he can hit you with huge plays there too.

He also surprised me in pass pro. Did a lot of good things and is only going to get better.

Don't get me wrong. I like Warren a lot. I'd like to see him get more snaps.

Warren has probably saved Najee's career and him being injured early in the season was probably the best thing that ever could have happened to Harris.

Cool Shades would have ran his wheels off and Najee's time in the NFL would already be close to ending. Sad it took an injury for the Steelers to realize that we have 2 really good RB's on the roster. Shockingly, even McFarland looked good in limited opportunities. I hope to God they don't draft another RB this April. That's one of the few areas the Steelers are already completely set in IMHO.

Yeah dude. I'm feeling pretty safe with Najee and Warren.

I highly doubt they spend a draft pick on a RB.

They re-signed that master P dude, and we still have McFarland. Maybe they snag an UDFA for camp.

[Kodiak.]

He will. Kenneth stated that he dropped a fair amount of mass training from the combine.

I doubt he'll ever develop a cannon or anything, but fully expect he'll have a Tom Brady like arm for most of his career.

I don't know that the issue is arm strength. But there's definitely an issue of timing/familiarity (which is easily correctable) and possibly mechanics (which aren't).

He might get a little more velocity generated from his lower body, but I don't think you mess with a guy's mechanics to that degree.

I didn't see enough deep/intermediate stuff to have much of an opinion, because it's a fairly small sample size. When he did make those throws, I felt like he missed a much higher percent than he should. HOWEVER, many of those misses were probably within a foot or two (or less) of where they needed to be. That seems more like a timing/familiarity issue.

Based on what I saw this year, if I was picking 10-15 I'd probably take Kenny. That said, his numbers truly were mediocre as a rookie. And if, like many QB's, he has a sophomore slump it could get ugly and opinions could change fast.

Let's be honest, Baker Mayfield in Yr1 and Yr3 shit all over what Kenny did and how he looked. So I'm optimistic on Kenny, but far from sold. Ultimately I think Mayfield's issue was inconsistent accuracy, which Kenny seems to be far better, with the caveat let's see what happens when he starts pushing the ball downfield with NFL-regularity.

[stillthere]

Optimistically, if you extrapolate his performance in the last 9 games to a full 17 game schedule,

It comes to 1270 yards at 4.1 YPC, 11TDs. Those are decent fantasy numbers, but 1270 would have put him about tied with Sanders for 5th, and none of the top 10 yardage RBs had less than 4.4 YPC. Really, only 2 of the top 19 RBs had less than 4.3, Najee and Jamaal Williams. So even if we imagine how Najee might look in the best of circumstances, healthy 17 games, rarely down by more than a score, good blocking, vulnerable defenses, etc etc, Najee still wouldn’t make a strong cases to be a top 10 RB.

bingo

the part that killed me at the time and still hurts as much was that we basically traded James Conner and a 1st rounder for James Conner that plays through injuries.

I have heard that Conner likes the warm weather out west and he says his body heals quicker out there. I don't know if that is true or if that is a mental thing but if it works, it works. One of the announcers talked about it during one of the Cards prime time games this past season.

[stillthere]

Would Warren have gotten the chance to make an impact if Najee wasn't slowed by injury recovery?

One thing that jumped out to me with the 49ers is how quickly their RB's shot thru the hole. As I write this, I'm reminded of how much I hated the later Bell seasons. What a dumb sluggard offense when it was centered on him.

A lot of us get excited about Warren but he's nothing special. We are used to slugs at RB with years of slow Bell and big slow Najee and yes Najee looked a lot better later in the season.

I still pound the drum for RB by committee. It's not that hard to find heady (smart) role playing RBs with some quicks and reliable hands (like Warren) who are effective at the position. And then when 1 goes down the position is not hurt by it.

They signed Jeremy McNichols to a one year deal last July and when he got hurt they didn't make another move at RB so I think they had an idea that Warren was going to be a contributor. During rookie camp apparently he was a bright spot.

I thought Durant was going to be the back that stepped up. I think the staff has been watching Warren get better and better and that made most of the others expendable sans Snell who is carving a nice special teams roll out.

[stillthere]

Of course Canada is going drag down Najee’s ypc pending off every first and second down for a total of 3 yards.

Got to back off teams from stacking the box.

By the way, the best compliment paid to Kenny Pickett this year was by the ravens. In the last game against them, they often had two safeties back and also frequently one of those safeties would backpedal at the snap.

Just in case, there’s any Steeler fans that don’t respect Kenny’s arm, know the rats do

I questioned if he had enough arm.

Feel he's shown enough that I don't think it will be an issue at all.

Plus, I expect with full offseason training and the work he will put in I expect he even picks up a few RPMs.

He will. Kenneth stated that he dropped a fair amount of mass training from the combine.

I doubt he'll ever develop a cannon or anything, but fully expect he'll have a Tom Brady like arm for most of his career.

Hopefully it will be weighed down by 6 or 7 Superb-Owl rings as well.

[stillthere]

Don't get me wrong. I like Warren a lot. I'd like to see him get more snaps.

Warren has probably saved Najee's career and him being injured early in the season was probably the best thing that ever could have happened to Harris.

Cool Shades would have ran his wheels off and Najee's time in the NFL would already be close to ending. Sad it took an injury for the Steelers to realize that we have 2 really good RB's on the roster. Shockingly, even McFarland looked good in limited opportunities. I hope to God they don't draft another RB this April. That's one of the few areas the Steelers are already completely set in IMHO.

Yeah dude. I'm feeling pretty safe with Najee and Warren.

I highly doubt they spend a draft pick on a RB.

They re-signed that master P dude, and we still have McFarland. Maybe they snag an UDFA for camp.

They have to sign at least 2 UDFA for rookie mini camp which is where we got lucky with Warren last year.

[anpsteel]

He will. Kenneth stated that he dropped a fair amount of mass training from the combine.

I doubt he'll ever develop a cannon or anything, but fully expect he'll have a Tom Brady like arm for most of his career.

I don't know that the issue is arm strength. But there's definitely an issue of timing/familiarity (which is easily correctable) and possibly mechanics (which aren't).

He might get a little more velocity generated from his lower body, but I don't think you mess with a guy's mechanics to that degree.

I didn't see enough deep/intermediate stuff to have much of an opinion, because it's a fairly small sample size. When he did make those throws, I felt like he missed a much higher percent than he should. HOWEVER, many of those misses were probably within a foot or two (or less) of where they needed to be. That seems more like a timing/familiarity issue.

Based on what I saw this year, if I was picking 10-15 I'd probably take Kenny. That said, his numbers truly were mediocre as a rookie. And if, like many QB's, he has a sophomore slump it could get ugly and opinions could change fast.

Let's be honest, Baker Mayfield in Yr1 and Yr3 shit all over what Kenny did and how he looked. So I'm optimistic on Kenny, but far from sold. Ultimately I think Mayfield's issue was inconsistent accuracy, which Kenny seems to be far better, with the caveat let's see what happens when he starts pushing the ball downfield with NFL-regularity.

I think Kenny started increasing his throwing velocity, to overcome the much smaller passing windows.

Ramping up the velocity, to minimize interception potential, at the cost of accuracy.

I'm sure he'll be working with a strength coach, in addition to the standard QB drills.

My biggest concern about Pickett, at this stage, is his susceptibility to concussions. That doesn't bode well, imo.